It is way past time for a reality check amongst the people here

[Marylovesthelions]

Joe paterno was like family to me. He won two national championships in forty plus years. I am seventy nine years old and I live in central Florida. My first year on campus was 1963. And those teams couldn't compare with what we have today.
I will be at two games every year until I can no longer travel. I will pay the extra bucks to get chair back seats and love it,
Wecare!

 

[heckmans]

Joe paterno was like family to me. He won two national championships in forty plus years. I am seventy nine years old and I live in central Florida. My first year on campus was 1963. And those teams couldn't compare with what we have today.
I will be at two games every year until I can no longer travel. I will pay the extra bucks to get chair back seats and love it,
Wecare!

So what's the reality check?

 

[19333lion]

So what's the reality check?

His meds.

 

[knickslions]

Another top notch post by Mary

 

[Marylovesthelions]

So what's the reality check?

Quit begging for NCs and blaming the coach because you don't get them. PSU seldom had them.

 

[Nittany1997]

I agree with Mary. Are you still a nurse?

 

[heckmans]

Quit begging for NCs and blaming the coach because you don't get them. PSU seldom had them.

Respectfully Mary, who's expecting NC's? Pretty sure most just want a coach capable of fielding a team that doesn't look overmatched by its peers, and wants a coach that understands his team and it's strengths/weaknesses and doesn't need some sort of analytics cheat sheet to make in-game decisions.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

I agree with Mary. Are you still a nurse?

I dropped out with a 3.86 GPA and 210/90 blood pressure with one term to go. I am a care giver 24/7, gratis. I enjoy making a,difference in someone's life.

 

[Thomas1945]

Quit begging for NCs and blaming the coach because you don't get them. PSU seldom had them.

Glad you cleared that up. I was afraid some crook had slipped a fraudulent mortgage on my home, because I hadn’t bought a policy from Life Lock or whatever their name is.

 

[blair10]

Quit begging for NCs and blaming the coach because you don't get them. PSU seldom had them.

Respectfully, I think your statement is not accurate. Most Penn State fans I’ve encountered are simply asking for coach Franklin to be competitive in big games. An 80% loss rate against Ohio State and Michigan is horrendous. This is a legitimate complaint. Why settle for a 3rd place bronze medal every year? At some point, coach Franklin has to defeat big boy programs not just UMass, Delaware, and Rutgers.

 

[joeaubie21]

It's hard to beat a cheat.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

Quit begging for NCs and blaming the coach because you don't get them. PSU seldom had them.

We havent even made the playoff Mary...

 

[Fayette_LION]

Quit begging for NCs and blaming the coach because you don't get them. PSU seldom had them.

I got to PSU in ‘70. One thing PSU always had was a competing team. They were in just about every game and played tough down hill football. That’s what I expect from our team. That includes the best teams on the schedule.

 

[LionFan87b]

His meds.

What a nice thing to say. ☹️

 

[scrivener]

Respectfully, I think your statement is not accurate. Most Penn State fans I’ve encountered are simply asking for coach Franklin to be competitive in big games. An 80% loss rate against Ohio State and Michigan is horrendous. This is a legitimate complaint. Why settle for a 3rd place bronze medal every year? At some point, coach Franklin has to defeat big boy programs not just UMass, Delaware, and Rutgers.

This. I think the subtext and overall rhetoric of our frustrations isn't 'JF can't win a title, or he is a failure.' Rather, let's just make a playoff. If you do that, then technically, you are playing for a championship. Making the playoffs every couple seasons shouldn't be a herculean task.

 

[LMTLION]

This. I think the subtext and overall rhetoric of our frustrations isn't 'JF can't win a title, or he is a failure.' Rather, let's just make a playoff. If you do that, then technically, you are playing for a championship. Making the playoffs every couple seasons shouldn't be a herculean task.

Perhaps you should tell us how many times we would’ve made the playoffs in the last 30 years….

 

[scrivener]

Perhaps you should tell us how many times we would’ve made the playoffs in the last 30 years….

A couple of times. And, unlike you it sounds like, I don't resort to the excuse of 'look at our past and then align your expectations accordingly.' I mean, what the heck does that mean. The game has totally changed, the sport has different rules, now has a playoff, etc. It's easier to make it now then it was in the 'old days.' And, I implore you to look at all of the 'blue bloods' over the last 30 years...from Bama, Mich, OSU, OU, NEB, ND, etc. They've all had up years and down years, just like PSU. CFB is very cyclical for all major programs. Do they resort to the 'well we mostly had years of non playoff finishes.' That's just a soft excuse for where our barriers are now. Be content with 10-2 and maybe a win over Tulane. Sorry, but if that is the case, and we have a season where the best two wins are Iowa and potentially Tulane, pardon me for not jumping up and down.

 

[diontechristmas]

I’m expecting Natty’s, or at least playoff appearances. Everyone associated with PSU football should do the same as otherwise the program is underachieving . It is not unreasonable to expect making the playoffs 75% of the time with the 12 team format. This program should be “competing” for a championship most years.

Joe had 2. He had to build the program 1st into a national power. The natty voting/process was draconian in Joe’s heyday , and who knows how many he’d have if we had a 4 team playoff as Joe was an expert in having his teams peek at the end of the season/bowl games.

 

[diontechristmas]

A couple of times. And, unlike you it sounds like, I don't resort to the excuse of 'look at our past and then align your expectations accordingly.' I mean, what the heck does that mean. The game has totally changed, the sport has different rules, now has a playoff, etc. It's easier to make it now than it was in the 'old days.' And, I implore you to look at all of the 'blue bloods' over the last 30 years...from Bama, Mich, OSU, OU, NEB, ND, etc. They've all had up years and down years, just like PSU. CFB is very cyclical for all major programs. Do they resort to the 'well we mostly had years of non playoff finishes.' That's just a soft excuse for where our barriers are now. Be content with 10-2 and maybe a win over Tulane. Sorry, but if that is the case, and we have a season where the best two wins are Iowa and potentially Tulane, pardon me for not jumping up and down.

PSU has not had a true “upcycle” since the late 90’s. A bunch of good teams, ranked 7-20, and a few great years mixed in.

 

[scrivener]

PSU has not had a true “upcycle” since the late 90’s. A bunch of good teams, ranked 7-20, and a few great years mixed in.

I'd venture to guess much of the 30 year history for many of the blue bloods is this way. It doesn't deter from my point that just b/c a program's past says this, that means it has to stay that way and our expectations should remain accordingly. At least not for me.

 

[diontechristmas]

I'd venture to guess much of the 30 year history for many of the blue bloods is this way. It doesn't deter from my point that just b/c a program's past says this, that means it has to stay that way and our expectations should remain accordingly. At least not for me.

Point was, teams at least make the playoffs or threaten for a title during the up’s. Franklin doesn’t come close. Michigan freaking State has made the playoffs.

 

[scrivener]

Point was, teams at least make the playoffs or threaten for a title during the up’s. Franklin doesn’t come close. Michigan freaking State has made the playoffs.

Oh, for sure...totally agree. That's what I was trying to get at

 

[Safety Blitz]

I can understand the various levels of expectation among the many PSU fans who post on this forum. Based on the program’s history and the stated objectives of James Franklin, I believe high expectations are warranted.
As for me, I want PSU football to reach the point where it consistently defeats all those schools rated below it and regularly competes with and more than occasionally beats the teams ranked above it.
I want to wake up the mornings of the Ohio State and Michigan games thinking PSU has a 50/50 shot at ending the day with victories.
James Franklin has failed to elevate Penn State to that point. I don’t believe his teams are prepared to win many of those games. I don’t believe he is prepared to coach winning football in those games. I believe the record over the past 10 years proves my point.
While I would like to see it, I don’t expect PSU to match the achievements of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan. But I do want to see Penn State step up to the point where it can reasonably be expected to win some share of games against that level of competition. I’ve seen little, if any, progress in that direction over the past several seasons.

 

[joeaubie21]

I can understand the various levels of expectation among the many PSU fans who post on this forum. Based on the program’s history and the stated objectives of James Franklin, I believe high expectations are warranted.
As for me, I want PSU football to reach the point where it consistently defeats all those schools rated below it and regularly competes with and more than occasionally beats the teams ranked above it.
I want to wake up the mornings of the Ohio State and Michigan games thinking PSU has a 50/50 shot at ending the day with victories.
James Franklin has failed to elevate Penn State to that point. I don’t believe his teams are prepared to win many of those games. I don’t believe he is prepared to coach winning football in those games. I believe the record over the past 10 years proves my point.
While I would like to see it, I don’t expect PSU to match the achievements of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan. But I do want to see Penn State step up to the point where it can reasonably be expected to win some share of games against that level of competition. I’ve seen little, if any, progress in that direction over the past several seasons.

E-e-ee-e-ee-ee-e-e!!!!!

 

[Marylovesthelions]

This. I think the subtext and overall rhetoric of our frustrations isn't 'JF can't win a title, or he is a failure.' Rather, let's just make a playoff. If you do that, then technically, you are playing for a championship. Making the playoffs every couple seasons shouldn't be a herculean task.

That should happen with a 12 team playoff in more than once every 12 years.

 

[Safety Blitz]

I dropped out with a 3.86 GPA and 210/90 blood pressure with one term to go. I am a care giver 24/7, gratis. I enjoy making a,difference in someone's life.

Hey Mary,
I think we may have stomped around some of the same ground in our youths. I’m running about a decade behind you.

 

[LMTLION]

A couple of times. And, unlike you it sounds like, I don't resort to the excuse of 'look at our past and then align your expectations accordingly.' I mean, what the heck does that mean. The game has totally changed, the sport has different rules, now has a playoff, etc. It's easier to make it now then it was in the 'old days.' And, I implore you to look at all of the 'blue bloods' over the last 30 years...from Bama, Mich, OSU, OU, NEB, ND, etc. They've all had up years and down years, just like PSU. CFB is very cyclical for all major programs. Do they resort to the 'well we mostly had years of non playoff finishes.' That's just a soft excuse for where our barriers are now. Be content with 10-2 and maybe a win over Tulane. Sorry, but if that is the case, and we have a season where the best two wins are Iowa and potentially Tulane, pardon me for not jumping up and down.

I think we can make it back there and I have high expectations that we should be competing with the best, but I also feel it is unreasonable and unfair to expect Franklin to easily do what Joe failed to do in the modern era of college football. Franklin’s task is exponentially more difficult now than the environment in let’s say 1986. Those reasons have been discussed ad nauseam in various posts.

 

[BBHorn86]

A couple of times. And, unlike you it sounds like, I don't resort to the excuse of 'look at our past and then align your expectations accordingly.' I mean, what the heck does that mean. The game has totally changed, the sport has different rules, now has a playoff, etc. It's easier to make it now then it was in the 'old days.' And, I implore you to look at all of the 'blue bloods' over the last 30 years...from Bama, Mich, OSU, OU, NEB, ND, etc. They've all had up years and down years, just like PSU. CFB is very cyclical for all major programs. Do they resort to the 'well we mostly had years of non playoff finishes.' That's just a soft excuse for where our barriers are now. Be content with 10-2 and maybe a win over Tulane. Sorry, but if that is the case, and we have a season where the best two wins are Iowa and potentially Tulane, pardon me for not jumping up and down.

So I'm curious... The PSU teams of yesteryear weren't beating great teams either. I would argue that outside of ND (when they were on the schedule), WVU (when they had an 8-3 type team) and Pitt (during the Jackie Sherrill years) where are all the big wins on PSU's schedule? Yes in 86 we beat Bama on the road but other than that win were you jumping up and down because we beat Boston College, Temple, Rutgers and East Carolina? In today's world of CFP analysis would we have been given the opportunity to play Miami-FL? Maybe not. There were certainly many times we didn't pass the eye test or have the resume. Back then we played maybe 2 or 3 bowl teams, grant it there were fewer bowls so it meant something but there were still at least 20 of them including minor bowls (who can forget the Astro Blue Bonnet Bowl?). Today we are beating at least 5 or 6 bowl teams per year just in the regular season. Look, I get the point unless we beat Ohio State and Michigan on a semi-regular basis the season seems unsatisfying but we also need to appreciate the fact that we could easily be Nebraska, Florida, Texas A&M, etc. I'm trying not to take for granted 10 wins and NY6 bowl. Probably 120 other schools would love that.

 

[joeaubie21]

So I'm curious... The PSU teams of yesteryear weren't beating great teams either. I would argue that outside of ND (when they were on the schedule), WVU (when they had an 8-3 type team) and Pitt (during the Jackie Sherrill years) where are all the big wins on PSU's schedule? Yes in 86 we beat Bama on the road but other than that win were you jumping up and down because we beat Boston College, Temple, Rutgers and East Carolina? In today's world of CFP analysis would we have been given the opportunity to play Miami-FL? Maybe not. There were certainly many times we didn't pass the eye test or have the resume. Back then we played maybe 2 or 3 bowl teams, grant it there were fewer bowls so it meant something but there were still at least 20 of them including minor bowls (who can forget the Astro Blue Bonnet Bowl?). Today we are beating at least 5 or 6 bowl teams per year just in the regular season. Look, I get the point unless we beat Ohio State and Michigan on a semi-regular basis the season seems unsatisfying but we also need to appreciate the fact that we could easily be Nebraska, Florida, Texas A&M, etc. I'm trying not to take for granted 10 wins and NY6 bowl. Probably 120 other schools would love that.

The Blue Bonnet Bowl.... LMAO!!!!

30 some years later, PiT is still waiting for the check from that Bowl... LOL!!!!

 

[KCLion]

I agree with Mary. Are you still a nurse?

I love my nurses, but quite frankly, Mary is all over the place with her posts regarding the team and coaches.

 

[IANit]

Quit begging for NCs and blaming the coach because you don't get them. PSU seldom had them.

We had 3 unbeaten seasons in Joe's first eight years. Twice #2 in his first 4 years. PSU was never #1 in any poll until 1978 regular season, so he had to overcome a bias against Eastern Football. Joe built PSU:s stature by scheduling the big names, and with the exception of Alabama under Bear Bryant, beating them. Joe also learned from his mistakes. After a gamble in his own territory cost him vs. FSU he didn't do it again. I like Franklin, but he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. He also benefits from the legacy of PSU football of the 70s and 80s which allow PSU to get highly ranked quickly when it does well and still does not have a Top 5 finish after 10 years.. He may be our Mark Richt, and maybe for many that's enough.. Is our Kirby Smart out there?

 

[LMTLION]

We had 3 unbeaten seasons in Joe's first eight years. Twice #2 in his first 4 years. PSU was never #1 in any poll until 1978 regular season, so he had to overcome a bias against Eastern Football. Joe built PSU:s stature by scheduling the big names, and with the exception of Alabama under Bear Bryant, beating them. Joe also learned from his mistakes. After a gamble in his own territory cost him vs. FSU he didn't do it again. I like Franklin, but he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. He also benefits from the legacy of PSU football of the 70s and 80s which allow PSU to get highly ranked quickly when it does well and still does not have a Top 5 finish after 10 years.. He may be our Mark Richt, and maybe for many that's enough.. Is our Kirby Smart out there?

I get what you are saying and it is well-reasoned, but I have to pause when you mention benefiting from the legacy of PSU football. Outside of Happy Valley that legacy is still tarnished by Sandusky. That’s not an opinion. It is a reality. Outside of PSU, Paterno is looked at as an enabler. Franklin seems like a good man and runs a clean program that continues to place an emphasis on academics and wins a lot of games. He may not win it all, but he is helping to rebuild our reputation.

 

[joeaubie21]

I get what you are saying and it is well-reasoned, but I have to pause when you mention benefiting from the legacy of PSU football. Outside of Happy Valley that legacy is still tarnished by Sandusky. That’s not an opinion. It is a reality. Outside of PSU, Paterno is looked at as an enabler. Franklin seems like a good man and runs a clean program that continues to place an emphasis on academics and wins a lot of games. He may not win it all, but he is helping to rebuild our reputation.

And it's bullshit held onto by Penn State haters many of whom know better. And some like Pitiots who believe their lies and pure bullshit.

 

[IANit]

I get what you are saying and it is well-reasoned, but I have to pause when you mention benefiting from the legacy of PSU football. Outside of Happy Valley that legacy is still tarnished by Sandusky. That’s not an opinion. It is a reality. Outside of PSU, Paterno is looked at as an enabler. Franklin seems like a good man and runs a clean program that continues to place an emphasis on academics and wins a lot of games. He may not win it all, but he is helping to rebuild our reputation.

The legacy I am talking about is that Penn State is widely seen as a football powerhouse, meaning there's a general belief that you can win it all here and that what you see is legit when we are doing well. That helps with the human polls. I think there was a time where we were seen as more of an upstart, not a Blue Blood, and even if we were undefeated or 10-1 right now it would have been kind of downplayed and we'd be lucky to be ranked ahead of other teams with similar records. Being in the Big Ten helps (also due mainly to our football success under Paterno), but I think because of legacy an unbeaten or once-beaten PSU team is generally going to be seen as more impressive by voters than a Wisconsin or even Michigan State team with a similar record as well as most non-Blue Bloods out of conference. It also helps that Franklin has recruited and his staff has developed some absolute freaks like Micah, Saquon, Odafe (formerly Jayson), etc. and sent them to the NFL. The pieces as far as to win a championship are all there (conference, fanbase, facilities, etc.). The game-day coaching, thus far, is not there. Until that improves we are unlikely to win it all. I don't think we should shy away from expecting and demanding progress toward that goal because some know-nothings who aren't able to think for themselves think that Joe was a bad man and we should feel lucky to even have a program if that's what you're suggesting.

 

[Safety Blitz]

Looks like someone cleaned up this thread.
!!! Thank You !!!

 

[joeaubie21]

Looks like someone cleaned up this thread.
!!! Thank You !!!

Where?

 

[fastlax16]

I got to PSU in ‘70. One thing PSU always had was a competing team. They were in just about every game and played tough down hill football. That’s what I expect from our team. That includes the best teams on the schedule.

That include the 9 straight losses to Michigan, including some very mediocre Michigan teams?

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

I got to PSU in ‘70. One thing PSU always had was a competing team. They were in just about every game and played tough down hill football. That’s what I expect from our team. That includes the best teams on the schedule.

So lets not even try. Good strategy.

 

[IANit]

That include the 9 straight losses to Michigan, including some very mediocre Michigan teams?

The first of those losses (the beatdown in 1997 - he was 3-1 vs UM prior to that) was when Joe was 71. I'd say he had lost some of his fastball by that time. I have higher expectations for a 51-year-old.