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Is he wrong or right?

dunkej01

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Dec 10, 2005
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I figured since there was a half dozen threads about iowa at the top of the page.....why not add .5 to it.

Also I was listening to the stalemates podcast last week. It was the one with brands and the chatter mat side about hating wrestling and loving politicians.

The stalemates dude is an ISU guy, so he has no dog in the fight between good (us) and evil (iowa). But in that he said psu were elitist.

Well .... now this from willie, has me thinking?

 
I don't have a Twitter account, but I would ask @smalls103 if he is referencing internet fans, or real life fans that he interacts with at the various events.

If it's the 1st, I tend to agree, but I really don't put much stock into what people post online...

If it's the 2nd, I am intrigued and would love to hear some examples that led him to post that.
 
He must be talking about college. He knows better when comes down to really loving the sport and the Pa high school scene. Also the casual fan will come out to see a successful team. They do in IA as well. Just human nature. Cant believe I took the chum.
 
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I figured since there was a half dozen threads about iowa at the top of the page.....why not add .5 to it.

Also I was listening to the stalemates podcast last week. It was the one with brands and the chatter mat side about hating wrestling and loving politicians.

The stalemates dude is an ISU guy, so he has no dog in the fight between good (us) and evil (iowa). But in that he said psu were elitist.

Well .... now this from willie, has me thinking?


I understand the first part of what he's saying.
 
Nobody shoots “growing the sport” in the foot better than the people always harping on growing the sport.
I had this out on Twitter with him and the Flo guys a few years ago. You can’t attract new people then whine about how the IQ of fans is low. The act of growing it in general means the median IQ goes down, since the most educated on the x and o parts have always watched it.

He, and I think most rabid wrestling fans, would rather the sport be its own enclave, with gatekeepers to keep the idiots out. They just don’t say it.
 
Nobody shoots “growing the sport” in the foot better than the people always harping on growing the sport.
I had this out on Twitter with him and the Flo guys a few years ago. You can’t attract new people then whine about how the IQ of fans is low. The act of growing it in general means the median IQ goes down, since the most educated on the x and o parts have always watched it.

He, and I think most rabid wrestling fans, would rather the sport be its own enclave, with gatekeepers to keep the idiots out. They just don’t say it.
You can't grow the sport after the crap show of a finals on Saturday night. ESPN started the coverage half way through the opening match of the night. Then we got to see 4 matches in a row where the score was 0-0 after the first period and 7 of the 10 matches were 0-0 after the first period. I believe there was one near fall in the 10 matches. If you are not a die hard fan, what a snooze fest.
 
You can't grow the sport after the crap show of a finals on Saturday night. ESPN started the coverage half way through the opening match of the night. Then we got to see 4 matches in a row where the score was 0-0 after the first period and 7 of the 10 matches were 0-0 after the first period. I believe there was one near fall in the 10 matches. If you are not a die hard fan, what a snooze fest.
All of that can be true, 100% true, and still, what Willie, and really a lot of the wrestling media says, can be true too.
In 2018 we had a fabulously interesting Saturday night. Bo sealed the title, IMar got pinned, the heavyweight showdown with Snyder, the Lee/Suriano match. I don’t recall this massive boom. But that’s really beside the point. I don’t know how one grows the sport, and I don’t think anyone does. But I know what doesn’t, and it’s the constant looking down the nose at people trying to learn, or be passionate, about it.
The passion, bordering fanaticism, is accepted in every mainstream sport. Sometimes I feel like wrestling media uses it to pivot to how smart they are, they know better than to argue this clear takedown, etc.
 
You can't grow the sport after the crap show of a finals on Saturday night. ESPN started the coverage half way through the opening match of the night. Then we got to see 4 matches in a row where the score was 0-0 after the first period and 7 of the 10 matches were 0-0 after the first period. I believe there was one near fall in the 10 matches. If you are not a die hard fan, what a snooze fest.

Yeah, there was generally low scoring, but "crap show of a finals"?? That's way too rough IMO:
  • Look at the upsets with dramatic endings
  • Strong personalities at 197, 285, 125
  • The story of these dedicated competitors coming back after the cancellation of the 2020 tournament, and the interruptions in this season
  • The "thrill of victory, the agony of defeat" seen up close is compelling
Yeah, maybe because I'm a hard-core fan, but I thought the finals telecast was good entertainment.
 
I'm not really going to take it personally either way--but I do wonder what he means about inappropriate and out of bounds. I mean, I remember the guy 2 rows behind me at the Dual of the Century screaming over and over again at Zain to rip Hayes' head off--but that's totally normal and in the field of play, right?
 
I have this wild theory that jammen is Willie, but we're not ready for that yet.
I believe that Willie is actually Spyker. How else would he have access to so much closely guarded information? FULL COURT PRESS !!! BRANDS HAS MADE EVERYONE IN IOWA HATE WRESTLING!!!
 
Well he did reply to someone by saying have you been to a PSU dual lately, so I’m guessing real life fans.
Not for over a year, but I have been to quite a few over the years. Including anything considered recent.
 
Carl is fine, it's a good, sturdy name. i'd take it if I did not already have it. To be mocked by jealousy is a supreme compliment. Cael is solidly inside their skulls, bouncing around since Saturday night at a record pace.

All that aside and speaking to bringing in new fans. I'm not a wrestling expert, I never wrestled beyond gym class. I enjoy watching the Lion wrestlers go at it and seemingly perform at top level when the lights come on at the nationals. If our team was weak, had poor showings at the NCAA's i'm sure I'd have less interest yet from my days at dear old state till now I've followed, at varied levels, the wrestling program and caught some matches while on campus as an undergrad.

Wrestling seems to be a sport that favors purists and the educated fan, former participants. Unless your team or individual team member is doing big things it's easy to lose interest. Not unlike golf, my livelihood, which is where grown men chase a tiny white ball around a big lawn according to many unlearned in the game. To a purist, it's the greatest game. To casual players, it's fun or very frustrating but you can play it your entire life and one good shot or hole brings your back again.

Wrestling doesn't have the same opportunity. Most sports don't have that livetime ability to compete through the handicap system. Can anyone imagine wrestling with a handicap system? It wouldn't work. Wrestling is man to man, an entirely focused sport, a sport handed down from the ages that requires no equipment, only a desire to beat the opponent and the ability to pull it off. It's beauty is in its simplicity. The effort expended to perform at any level is astounding, eliminating most potential participants. It's a very specialized sport at the level we witnessed last weekend, full of drama, twists and turns on and off the mat.

I conclude that you either are compelled by it or indifferent to it. There is very little middle ground.

WE ARE
 
He’s wrong about one thing, Penn State fans think wrestling started in 1953.
It's funny but I can still remember rec hall packed in 1976 for a meet with Lehigh and can still remember when the wrestling team would have double headers with the basketball team I th 70s and outdraw them, but hey, let's not let facts get in the way of jealousy.
 
You can't grow the sport after the crap show of a finals on Saturday night. ESPN started the coverage half way through the opening match of the night. Then we got to see 4 matches in a row where the score was 0-0 after the first period and 7 of the 10 matches were 0-0 after the first period. I believe there was one near fall in the 10 matches. If you are not a die hard fan, what a snooze fest.
"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?" I certainly was. There were so many "Near Takedowns", "Strange calls" and quick endings to entertain most if not all ( But one) watchers. . :)
 
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"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?" I certainly was. There were so many "Near Takedowns", "Strange calls" and quick endings to entertain most if not all ( But one) watchers. . :)
If you want to grow the sport you need to attract fans who know nothing about wrestling. In the USA, soccer is considered boring because of too many 0-0 games. If you understand it, you can see the excitement in any game/match and enjoy it.

Just saying Saturday night wasn’t moving the needle for the casual fan.
 
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As to the OP's question, is he wrong or right?, I guess if that's his perception, then it's right to Willie, sadly.

I hate to pigeonhole an entire fan base, as "one way or another", when it's so much more complicated than that.
 
Yeah, there was generally low scoring, but "crap show of a finals"?? That's way too rough IMO:
  • Look at the upsets with dramatic endings
  • Strong personalities at 197, 285, 125
  • The story of these dedicated competitors coming back after the cancellation of the 2020 tournament, and the interruptions in this season
  • The "thrill of victory, the agony of defeat" seen up close is compelling
Yeah, maybe because I'm a hard-core fan, but I thought the finals telecast was good entertainment.
Agree with what you say about Saturday night. The storylines and wrestling were good. College wrestling fans are a bit like baseball fans. The sport can at times be a bit dull, but, ..... those who crave the sport look two or three steps ahead and enjoy the hell out of a tight match. Unless college wrestling devolves into a sensationalistic shit show (think 1990’s NASCAR or WWE) they will not attract mass viewership. The masses need constant Visceral Stimulation and this is why they turn to activities like video games. Let’s enjoy what we have and not worry about poor mass media exposure.
 
You can't grow the sport after the crap show of a finals on Saturday night. ESPN started the coverage half way through the opening match of the night. Then we got to see 4 matches in a row where the score was 0-0 after the first period and 7 of the 10 matches were 0-0 after the first period. I believe there was one near fall in the 10 matches. If you are not a die hard fan, what a snooze fest.
Hence my avitar name. I'm not one that attends a match and yells stalling but do get perturb when guys wrestle the edge of the mat. A ref will call the stall late in the match but not early which would set the tone of what the spectators watch. I almost feel if they would treat the mat circle as truly a defined area that your opponent would get a point after one warning for when both of your feet go out of bounds. Kinda like sumu wrestling. Wrestlers would want to engage more in the middle.
 
Hence my avitar name. I'm not one that attends a match and yells stalling but do get perturb when guys wrestle the edge of the mat. A ref will call the stall late in the match but not early which would set the tone of what the spectators watch. I almost feel if they would treat the mat circle as truly a defined area that your opponent would get a point after one warning for when both of your feet go out of bounds. Kinda like sumu wrestling. Wrestlers would want to engage more in the middle.

But the "backing out" stall call essentially functions as a push-out with a warning.

Maybe it's just me, but that it doesn't seem like edge of the mat wrestling has been reduced since that rule was adopted.
 
But the "backing out" stall call essentially functions as a push-out with a warning.

Maybe it's just me, but that it doesn't seem like edge of the mat wrestling has been reduced since that rule was adopted.
It was at first, now it is part of the game. Retreat, circle around and attack or push looking for a stall call.
Make it simple, if you are defending an attack either wrestle in or be called for stalling.
If you drive your opponent out without a shot you are stalling.
If you are riding and you take your guy OOB you are stalling.
If one guy retreats and the other guy centers, easy.
If one guy retreats as a setup for offensive attacks then do so in a circle, and there must be some shooting. In other words if you want to wrestle in reverse move in a circle, not reverse step to the edge. If you set your offense up that way then be offensive with it, otherwise you are avoiding contact.
 
I think too many went full-sensitive here. Willie was just saying I know what to say to PO the portion of two fan bases that it’s easy to get a read on - Iowa’s and PSU’s online groups.
 
Personally I think it all depends on the Age of the FAN. I think its ridiculous to have joy in a championship you were not old enough to remember. However, If you are old enough to have enjoyed Gables run then I understand that feeling will always be with you.

Personally PSU wrestling began for me with the Hughes twins and Kolat of the 1990's. I watched all 3 in High school numerous times and was very excited at the prospect of them putting PSU wrestling on the MAP to compete against Iowa. It never came to fruition, some exciting times but nothing larger.

I have been keeping up with PSU wrestling ever since HOWEVER- it was not until Cael that I put major effort into keeping up. I think my Effort of Watching is pretty close to the Effort of the Administration Trying, Call it Symbiosis. There is only so much time in a Day, Year, Life. I hope you all have more interests than Just Wrestling..Family/Books/Movies/Other Sports ETC. To focus more on something when it brings you joy is Smart and Healthy. To not invest as much time when it brings heartache and pain is not betrayal. Changing your Favorite Team due to another teams success...That is Betrayal

Edit- They do not have to win the National championship to feel Joy in PSU wrestling, so don't misunderstand. But say tomorrow they fire Cael without a plan in place and the entire team leaves. i would still be a PSU Fan, but I doubt I would invest as much emotional Capital if the Administration went back to not taking wrestling as seriously
 
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As to the OP's question, is he wrong or right?, I guess if that's his perception, then it's right to Willie, sadly.

I hate to pigeonhole an entire fan base, as "one way or another", when it's so much more complicated than that.
absolutely right. As I stated before, you're ignorant if you are taking a board, such as this or Iowa's, and categorizing their fan base by it. Only a small representation and on top of that a smaller representation of the knuckle heads. Same with assuming 'tweets' represent the mass population.
 
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