If we want more renewables, we're going to need a lot more mining first

JeffClear

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You want to shift power to China, and increase strip mining, at the expense of American power. This is a huge mistake. The US and the automobile industry have made massive strides in terms of reducing emissions and producing oil and gas in a more environmentally friendly manner. This forced adoption of EVs and push to kill oil and gas is going to hurt everyone in America. It already is. Gas prices are hurting everyone and most people can’t afford EVs. The poor and lower middle class is getting clobbered. Congratulations. I hope you enjoy your air today.
Actually, reducing coal production will significantly decrease strip mining.
And by shifting away from ICE engines to electric, it would boost domestic production because all of our electricity is produced domestically.
As for the cost of the vehicles, they are coming down.
When cars first came out only the wealthy could afford them.
Even after the model T only well off families could afford more than one car.
The ICE era is coming to an end, even the car companies realize this and are shifting their priorities to electric vehicles.
 

LioninHouston

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Actually, reducing coal production will significantly decrease strip mining.
And by shifting away from ICE engines to electric, it would boost domestic production because all of our electricity is produced domestically.
As for the cost of the vehicles, they are coming down.
When cars first came out only the wealthy could afford them.
Even after the model T only well off families could afford more than one car.
The ICE era is coming to an end, even the car companies realize this and are shifting their priorities to electric vehicles.
So, China dominates the world in terms of coal production, which rose last year, not decreased, and they will strip mine more to produce batteries. Again, what in the world are you talking about? India is going down the same path. FYI, those countries dont give a shit about your air.

 
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HartfordLlion

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Actually, reducing coal production will significantly decrease strip mining.
And by shifting away from ICE engines to electric, it would boost domestic production because all of our electricity is produced domestically.
As for the cost of the vehicles, they are coming down.
When cars first came out only the wealthy could afford them.
Even after the model T only well off families could afford more than one car.
The ICE era is coming to an end, even the car companies realize this and are shifting their priorities to electric vehicles.

Ah, no Jeff they have been going up. Just look at the trend with Tesla's pricing of their vehicles. There is no "coming down"
 
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m.knox

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I want to see the use of oil and coal reduced.
And by reducing oil, we would gravely hurt tyrants in Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran and improve our air and water.
Personally I really enjoy being alive and want to be around as long as I can and clean air and water will help

The air and water are clean here. If you like, you can always install one of these in your house to be EXTRA sure you have clean water............

EVERPURE-EV9328-01-SYSTEM.jpg
 
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JeffClear

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So, China dominates the world in terms of coal production, which rose last year, not decreased, and they will strip mine more to produce batteries. Again, what in the world are you talking about? India is going down the same path. FYI, those countries dont give a shit about your air.

I am talking about eliminating coal for electrical generation in the USA, which would certainly reduce strip mining as the volume of coal mined far outstrips (pun intended) rare earth element mining.
 

JeffClear

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Ah, no Jeff they have been going up. Just look at the trend with Tesla's pricing of their vehicles. There is no "coming down"
Look at the price of all new cars.
"All in all, the amount Americans paid for the average new car rose a staggering $6,220 in 2021, and $3,301 in 2020, Kelley Blue Book says. Americans today are paying almost $10,000 more for their new cars than they did before the pandemic in 2019. Prices may not return to typical levels for quite a while."
 

m.knox

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I am talking about eliminating coal for electrical generation in the USA, which would certainly reduce strip mining as the volume of coal mined far outstrips (pun intended) rare earth element mining.

Coal is a diversion Jeff.

The subject is mining rare earth minerals needed for "green energy".
 

JeffClear

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Coal is a diversion Jeff.

The subject is mining rare earth minerals needed for "green energy".
It's not a diversion, coal is a fact.
You posted on your OP that renewables would increase mining and this is absolutely false because if we replace coal with renewables it would significantly decrease mining.
 

LioninHouston

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It's not a diversion, coal is a fact.
You posted on your OP that renewables would increase mining and this is absolutely false because if we replace coal with renewables it would significantly decrease mining.
STRIP MINING!!!!!!! Mining for minerals! What in the hell is wrong with you? Do you think electric vehicles require coal?
 
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m.knox

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It's not a diversion, coal is a fact.
You posted on your OP that renewables would increase mining and this is absolutely false because if we replace coal with renewables it would significantly decrease mining.

LOL...... No Jeff. NEW MINING would have to occur, and in NEW PLACES. Places were coal was never mined. Imagine that?

BTW, isn't coal DEAD??
 
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JeffClear

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LOL...... No Jeff. NEW MINING would have to occur, and in NEW PLACES. Places were coal was never mined. Imagine that?

BTW, isn't coal DEAD??
This isn't complicated. We increase use of renewables and decrease the use of coal.
Now the renewables will increase mining slightly.
By volume rare earth elements are mined in small amounts and we don't need that much of them.
Total imports of rare earth elements total $165 million a year.
Coal power plants use a huge volume of coal.
So by swapping renewables for coal we reduce the amount of mining needed.
They are also looking at ways to safely extract rare earth elements from waste coal and coal ash.
We have plenty of that laying around so we might not need to mine at all to get these elements.
And there is a new facility opening in Canada that will extract rare earth elements in an environmentally friendly manner.
 

m.knox

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This isn't complicated. We increase use of renewables and decrease the use of coal.
Now the renewables will increase mining slightly.
By volume rare earth elements are mined in small amounts and we don't need that much of them.
Total imports of rare earth elements total $165 million a year.
Coal power plants use a huge volume of coal.
So by swapping renewables for coal we reduce the amount of mining needed.
They are also looking at ways to safely extract rare earth elements from waste coal and coal ash.
We have plenty of that laying around so we might not need to mine at all to get these elements.
And there is a new facility opening in Canada that will extract rare earth elements in an environmentally friendly manner.

Jeff, coal is on the decline. Natural gas has been displacing it for years. Now we have to INCREASE mining activity to capture new materials.

Even you can understand this picture.

main.svg
 

JeffClear

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Jeff, coal is on the decline. Natural gas has been displacing it for years. Now we have to INCREASE mining activity to capture new materials.

Even you can understand this picture.

main.svg
Coal is still being used for electricity and and a lot of land is still being strip mined for coal and by switching to renewables we would decrease the mining overall.
Plus by switching to electric cars we get cleaner air and we don't have to use as much oil and electricity production is domestic.
 

m.knox

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Coal is still being used for electricity and and a lot of land is still being strip mined for coal and by switching to renewables we would decrease the mining overall.
Plus by switching to electric cars we get cleaner air and we don't have to use as much oil and electricity production is domestic.

"a lot"..... Sneaking up on 1970's levels.................

Coal is the same a nuclear now......

EIA_Power_Gen_2019_XL_1868_1109_80.jpg
 
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JeffClear

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"a lot"..... Sneaking up on 1970's levels.................

Coal is the same a nuclear now......

EIA_Power_Gen_2019_XL_1868_1109_80.jpg
And yet, roughly 535 million tons of coal were mined in the USA in 2021.
In comparison, world production of rare earth elements was roughly 280,000 tons in 2021 with China and the USA the leading producers.
 

m.knox

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And yet, roughly 535 million tons of coal were mined in the USA in 2021.
In comparison, world production of rare earth elements was roughly 280,000 tons in 2021 with China and the USA the leading producers.

Statista is always behind a pay wall Jeff.

Dig baby, dig..............
 

HartfordLlion

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Look at the price of all new cars.
"All in all, the amount Americans paid for the average new car rose a staggering $6,220 in 2021, and $3,301 in 2020, Kelley Blue Book says. Americans today are paying almost $10,000 more for their new cars than they did before the pandemic in 2019. Prices may not return to typical levels for quite a while."

So what. YOU told us the price of electric vehicles are coming down. I guess you are fine with lying.
 
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JeffClear

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So what. YOU told us the price of electric vehicles are coming down. I guess you are fine with lying.
You are taking my quote out of context. Go back and read my post.
The cost of vehicles has come down relative to the Model T era. My point is as production of electric cars increases they will become relatively less expensive due to economies of scale.
Evs are still in their infancy and as car companies invest more in their production, (and we know that they are) their relative or real price will go down.
And the reverse will happen for ICE vehicles, as their production falls, due to the switch to EVs, they will become more expensive to produce.
The writing is on the wall, all the major car manufacturers are embracing EV’s as the future. They are spending virtually all their R&D dollars on EVs and are planning to wind down production of ICE vehicles, time that you fools do too.
 

m.knox

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You are taking my quote out of context. Go back and read my post.
The cost of vehicles has come down relative to the Model T era. My point is as production of electric cars increases they will become relatively less expensive due to economies of scale.
Evs are still in their infancy and as car companies invest more in their production, (and we know that they are) their relative or real price will go down.
And the reverse will happen for ICE vehicles, as their production falls, due to the switch to EVs, they will become more expensive to produce.
The writing is on the wall, all the major car manufacturers are embracing EV’s as the future. They are spending virtually all their R&D dollars on EVs and are planning to wind down production of ICE vehicles, time that you fools do too.

Did baby, Dig. Or make China and Russia great again.
 
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Hotshoe

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I live near two coal fired plants on lakes. The air and water are pristine. He's fos like usual.
 
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LioninHouston

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LOL...... No Jeff. NEW MINING would have to occur, and in NEW PLACES. Places were coal was never mined. Imagine that?

BTW, isn't coal DEAD??
You are taking my quote out of context. Go back and read my post.
The cost of vehicles has come down relative to the Model T era. My point is as production of electric cars increases they will become relatively less expensive due to economies of scale.
Evs are still in their infancy and as car companies invest more in their production, (and we know that they are) their relative or real price will go down.
And the reverse will happen for ICE vehicles, as their production falls, due to the switch to EVs, they will become more expensive to produce.
The writing is on the wall, all the major car manufacturers are embracing EV’s as the future. They are spending virtually all their R&D dollars on EVs and are planning to wind down production of ICE vehicles, time that you fools do too.
You always lose one argument, shift to another argument that nobody made, then claim victory. That is why you repeatedly get labeled a moron. I am trying to help you. You are embarrassing yourself and your family.
 
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JeffClear

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You always lose one argument, shift to another argument that nobody made, then claim victory. That is why you repeatedly get labeled a moron. I am trying to help you. You are embarrassing yourself and your family.
I don't lose arguments on here and I'm not shifting my arguments, they are exactly the same.
Perhaps you are just too stupid to understand.
EV's and renewables are the future, coal power and ICE vehicles are fading into oblivion.
Even the car companies know it.
But as usual Trumpers can't accept change and scream into the wind their anger at the modern world.
The world is changing there is nothing you can do to stop it.
You Trumpers are dinosaurs, soon to be as obsolete as ICE vehicles, probably even sooner.
You know it's true. That's why Trumpers are so angry.
 

jjw165

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I don't lose arguments on here and I'm not shifting my arguments, they are exactly the same.
Perhaps you are just too stupid to understand.
EV's and renewables are the future, coal power and ICE vehicles are fading into oblivion.
Even the car companies know it.
But as usual Trumpers can't accept change and scream into the wind their anger at the modern world.
The world is changing there is nothing you can do to stop it.
You Trumpers are dinosaurs, soon to be as obsolete as ICE vehicles, probably even sooner.
You know it's true. That's why Trumpers are so angry.
Thanks for the chuckle 🤭
 

Hotshoe

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Most likely those lakes have higher levels of mercury in them.
Total bullsh&t. Like you have a clue. You made a post, once again, based on feelings and bullshit. There are zero advisories on either lake. All fish are healthy to eat. You lose arguments all the time. Don't be an ignorant a&& like Paoli, like you have any qualifications to assume you're smarter than others. It's a pathetic rebuttal. Neither of you are smarter than anyone, and Paoli is a flagrant liar.
 

m.knox

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I don't lose arguments on here and I'm not shifting my arguments, they are exactly the same.
Perhaps you are just too stupid to understand.
EV's and renewables are the future, coal power and ICE vehicles are fading into oblivion.
Even the car companies know it.
But as usual Trumpers can't accept change and scream into the wind their anger at the modern world.
The world is changing there is nothing you can do to stop it.
You Trumpers are dinosaurs, soon to be as obsolete as ICE vehicles, probably even sooner.
You know it's true. That's why Trumpers are so angry.

The only accurate come back you could have made is that you don't have a family. It's understandable.

LOL... "SOON TO BE OBSOLETE"...... Jeff the auto expert SPEAKS!!
 
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JeffClear

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Total bullsh&t. Like you have a clue. You made a post, once again, based on feelings and bullshit. There are zero advisories on either lake. All fish are healthy to eat. You lose arguments all the time. Don't be an ignorant a&& like Paoli, like you have any qualifications to assume you're smarter than others. It's a pathetic rebuttal. Neither of you are smarter than anyone, and Paoli is a flagrant liar.
Haha you are a moron who thinks he is intelligent.
I don't know what lakes you are talking about so I posted a study that shows coal power plants tend to cause mercury pollution.
That is why I said it is " most likely" that those lakes have higher levels of mercury.
It is you who are acting emotionally to the point you can't even read correctly.
 

JeffClear

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The only accurate come back you could have made is that you don't have a family. It's understandable.

LOL... "SOON TO BE OBSOLETE"...... Jeff the auto expert SPEAKS!!
No the car companies have spoken. And they are the auto experts and they are switching to EVs.
 

LioninHouston

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The only accurate come back you could have made is that you don't have a family. It's understandable.

LOL... "SOON TO BE OBSOLETE"...... Jeff the auto expert SPEAKS!!
Come on, man! I bet you never saw the Model T argument coming.
 
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m.knox

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No the car companies have spoken. And they are the auto experts and they are switching to EVs.

They will make what people will buy. It's really that simple. Posturing isn't profitable.
 

m.knox

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Yes and they are anticipating people will buy them, otherwise they wouldn't be investing billions into EVs.
GM has even pledged to be all electric by 2035.

I have no interest. Do you own one? I think of all the individuals who post here, only Rumble and Steve G own some sort of non ICE vehicle.

GM can "pledge" (aka posture) all they want. They don't want to be on the wrong side of the twitter mob. No one does.
 

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