But look at his record without Brady. And here’s Brady in the SB without Bill....where’s Bill without Brady?
If TB wins the Super Bowl, is Bruce Arians a coaching genius?
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Bet they would have made the playoffs. The Buccaneers were a whopping 7-9 without Brady but with all talent they were supposedly accumulating.
Brady isn't Superman and he can't throw to himself. Agreed that they wouldn't have been contenders this year. But as a fan of a team that ran up against him too many times and saw too many daggers delivered by him, you can't tell me that he wasn't a key part of it.
Well, he got Cleveland in the playoffs. Hey, if you want to argue that BB is not a great coach, have at it...I am sure it will be amusing...
He's a great QB no dispute. He didn't have a great game yesterday. Tampa's defense deserves most of the credit. IMO
You have 85 more wins than me, so congrats on that. Not sure why are asking about my ass wipe. To each his own, I guess.
Not sure I ever said he wasn’t a great coach, just not a coaching genius. He would be considered a decent to good coach if had not had Brady.
It was a big part of my life....coaching a total of 16 years. It consumed me. I ate slept and lived football.......now I'm 70, lost my wife to cancer 11 years ago and I wish I had spent the time with her. Don't take anything for granted. This is just fun.
Arians was Coach of the Year with the Colts when Pagano was off fighting cancer. Two years later was Coach of the Year at Arizona......not a franchise with a history of winning. And now he is probably the front runner to win again.
That would make three times with three different teams. No coach has done that before.
Oh yeah, he was the OC on the Super Bowl winning Steelers, too.
He doesn’t need anyone here to verify his credentials as a football coaching genius.
That would make three times with three different teams. No coach has done that before.
Oh yeah, he was the OC on the Super Bowl winning Steelers, too.
He doesn’t need anyone here to verify his credentials as a football coaching genius.
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I don't see how marshall23 saying "Brady is a great quarterback" is saying that Brady wasn't a key part of the success. In a QB-centric league, saying someone is a great QB would clearly make him a key part.
FWIW, if TB wins (which would be fun to see), that will put Brady within 1 Super Bowl ring of Belichick. To be fair, a coaching career can last a lot longer than a playing career (even when that player is TB12). Either way, I am quite sure they won more together than they would have won separately. It was a lot of fun to watch them win 6 of the 9 Super Bowls they were in together.
How bout it? What a run!!
I do think Belichick deserves a lot of criticism for not appreciating what he had though. All superstars are a pain in the arse in some way. TB12 less than most.
If you think history will record it that way, well maybe we should advise the Italians that they won WW2.
BB has a record, in the salary cap era mind you, that is second to none...and by a wide margin. If he is not considered one of the very best, then who is?
But to each his own...
I'm sorry to hear about your wife. I'm sure she appreciated the time you did spend with her.
All NFL coaches are paid well to do what they do. All NFL players are at least competent football players. League rules, including the salary cap, are designed to promote parity. The difference between 8-8 and 12-4 (or 4-12) can be pretty small. Borrowing from Deming, my opinion is that with most other players being within control limits (99.7 percent within 3 standard devs of the mean) excepting a few outliers (physical freaks), the addition of Tom Brady to the roster was good for 2-3 wins per season that NE would likely not have gotten with a less talented QB. There might have been a handful of others who could have had similar success if on the Patriots. In the playoffs, I would bet the percentage was higher. Maybe 1 game per playoff. That means without Brady the Patriots are still good most years during their run, but they are more like the Steelers under Cowher or Packers the past several years. Could Tom Brady have turned this year's Jets into a playoff team? Heck no The Patriots were probably 9-7 at best.. But take a team that's got at least average to above-average talent and he can put it over the top. Tampa got some name free agent signings (Gronk, AB) and signed a lot of talented rookies, but I bet analytics wouldn't show a big difference between last year's team and this year's team other than at QB.
Belichick will go down as the greatest coach of the salary-cap era, at least, but I think Brady played a key part in making it possible. Not just with his play, but by taking less money to free up cap space.
Belichick doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that Brady was a big part of what made him wildly successful rather than just mediocre or moderately successful
It’s more like Belichick was England and getting credit for winning WW2 even though he had the Americans on his side. Take Brady away and his record in the salary cap era wouldn’t be so great. That’s kind of the point.
He's paid the fines to prove it. That's one of the problems I have with crowning him, especially given that some of the fines were over recording the Steelers.Well, BB certainly coached the best video teams and ball boys of all time!!!
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You're right. Mahomes is a great player and probably still not in his prime yet. The rest of the team is loaded, too. I just saw an article about the NFC Championship talking about the QB's ages. Never mind that Rodgers had an MVP-level year and Brady played about as well as anyone this season once they got the offense figured out.
I generally agree with everything you state...and BB is not the warm and fuzzy type...but what are the specifics to your last paragraph?
And if he was only caught a few times, what are the odds he did it many more times???!!!!
I think it's fair to say that we truly don't know how good Bill Belichik is. Why was he not successful in his stops before NE? I think, to some extent, these ultra-successful scenarios are multiple things coming together. I think ownership gave Bilichik what he needed (where Cleveland did not) and I think BB and Tom Brady perfectly complimented each other. I think it's very possible that if TB had been drafted elsewhere, both might have had very average careers. It's very tough to say. We may never know if BB decides to hang it up soon. If he stays in the league, let's see if he can build a winner with a new QB.
There's a lot of stuff out there. I did not realize until today that Belichick had apparently offered Brady instead of Garrapolo to the 49ers in a trade, but Kraft quickly vetoed that one. That was probably the beginning of the end. The main thing I know for sure is that Belichick refused to give Brady any props ahead of his last game as a Patriot and then allowed him to leave.
It will be interesting to see what happens in NE. I totally agree with you on multiple things coming together. No coach has won a Super Bowl with 2 teams. Parcells probably came the closest with New England. No coach after winning a Super Bowl has done a rebuild and won a Super Bowl again. Bill Cowher lost the Super Bowl then basically had to rebuild before finally winning the Super Bowl 10 years later. If Belichick does a rebuild and wins another Super Bowl it would be impressive, especially at his age. The odds aren't in his favor. Four NFL coaches have gone past 70 (5 if you count Romeo Crennel as interim in Houston this year, the oldest ever at 73)..
To me Brady going to TB and getting to the Super Bowl on the first try makes it seem unlikely he would have a very average career had he landed elsewhere. He may not have had all the hardware, but I think he'd still be good even if his team wasn't. .He has an almost pathological need to be the best, kind of like Jordan. Belichick is similar, so they were a good team while they lasted.
Actually, I think Andy Reid is closest to winning Super Bowls with multiple teams, losing by a FG with the Eagles.
I guess my thought here is, What if tom brady was never "Tom Brady". Guy was a 6th rounder and was a backup to Drew Bledsoe. He got his shot b/c Bledsoe had a major injury. What if he didn't? What if he got drafted by the Jets or Bengals? How many guys got ruined by bad teams/situations? It's almost impossible to tell.
Good point. The thing about Brady is he had confidence in himself, but also an attitude. Maybe part of being a MIchigan Man. He was mad about being a sixth-rounder and set out to prove people wrong. He reportedly told Robert Kraft, before playing a down, "I'm the best decision this organization has ever made." But it's definitely possible that he could have landed somewhere and never got the chance. Somebody saw something in him early, because they kept 4 QBs that year, and he was up to #2 by the next year when Bledsoe went down.
