I don't get the Franklin is not a good coach comments

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

I think what the quote is implying is that UCLA's staff was happy that USC hired Sark instead of Franklin, the implication being that Franklin would make life much more difficult for UCLA than Sark would. I'd say they were dead on.

You're right - I blew it. I react so reflexively to troll posts/tweets about CJF. Upon further review, that is high praise coming from UCLA.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Worked out great for UCLA and worked out great for us. Who knew? There is such a thing as win win.

As I said to Raffycorn, I read it too fast and I blew it. I deleted my original post. Thanks for setting me straight!

 

[zwick99]

Well, since you asked ...

Coach Franklin: 1-1 in games played in non-Eastern Time Zones.

Coach O'Brien: 3-2 in such games.

If you're playing a game of "stump michnittlion"--- you are failing in terms of finding ANY statistic where our current coach is better than our former coach.

Do you think UM should fire Harbaugh since he has one loss just like Franklin?

 

[zwick99]

You LOVED the Virginia game? Look O'Brien did a good job under trying circumstances, I will give you that and, unlike many others, I don't hate him for leaving. If I recall correctly, you are one of those who has been critical of Franklin. The truth is that O'Brien was also the coach in lopsided losses to OSU (somewhat understandable) and Indiana (huh?) with more veteran talent, particularly on the OL, than Franklin has even now. But for 2 calls which the officials now admit they blew, Franklin would have beaten the national champ last year. I think they both did good and commendable jobs under circumstances which no other coaches ever had to deal with. However, you don't have two 9-3 seasons at Vandy in the SEC if you can't coach so the Franklin can recruit but can't coach oft repeated criticism is pure BS and is getting more than a little tiresome in this corner.

P.S. I could care less about the spreads and only wins and losses. Was the spread in the OSU game -50 OSU?

He did love the Virginia game because he is not a PSU fan. He is a Michigan fan. If you go to the UM boards he bashes PSU all the time. He even posts on the Pitt board. He is a troll.

 

[smaturin]

It's still way to early. If you want to judge him, do so after a full 4 year recruiting cycle with his players. O'Brien did not leave an empty cupboard, but obviously the sanctions hurt. To win he has to be able to recruit his players, AND he and his staff have to have the chance to coach those players up. Mostly I am concerned about whether we have the best staff that we can get. Again though you have to let him get his guys in and develop them. In 3 more years you need to see some solid improvement, but you also have to be realistic. The Big 10 has some very good programs. If we can return to the point where we are in the Big 10 Championship game every 3 years or so, and in the running to win our division every year, that would be pretty darn good.

 

[zwick99]

PSU had more than 50 players on scholarship, Franklin just chose to play fewer. Most coaches don't play the entire 85 or so they have, so it's not a 50 v 85 comparison.

It was 65 vs 85. EVERY team has young players who are still developing. Once you take those players out of the equation PSU was at an ever bigger disadvantage statistically because it was more like 45 vs 65.

Are you a Pitt fan or a Joebot?

 

[zwick99]

It's still way to early. If you want to judge him, do so after a full 4 year recruiting cycle with his players. O'Brien did not leave an empty cupboard, but obviously the sanctions hurt. To win he has to be able to recruit his players, AND he and his staff have to have the chance to coach those players up. Mostly I am concerned about whether we have the best staff that we can get. Again though you have to let him get his guys in and develop them. In 3 more years you need to see some solid improvement, but you also have to be realistic. The Big 10 has some very good programs. If we can return to the point where we are in the Big 10 Championship game every 3 years or so, and in the running to win our division every year, that would be pretty darn good.

It is not too early. Did JF need 4 years to judge the players he cut loose? Did you need another 4 years to judge Butler? Donovan is not a good OC. JF can be a great HC if he surrounds himself with more coaches like Shoop. He needs a 4 star OC.

 

[BBrown]

It is not too early. Did JF need 4 years to judge the players he cut loose? Did you need another 4 years to judge Butler? Donovan is not a good OC. JF can be a great HC if he surrounds himself with more coaches like Shoop. He needs a 4 star OC.

I'm still iffy on Donovan. I thought he called a really good game against IU.
But until the OL can become at least average I'm not sure if we can judge Donovan fairly.

 

[zwick99]

I'm still iffy on Donovan. I thought he called a really good game against IU.
But until the OL can become at least average I'm not sure if we can judge Donovan fairly.

Part of his job is improve the OL.

 

[PSU.:.]

I haven't really seen PSU people say that. Seems outside haters say it.
Franklin seems like a decent coach so far. He is an excellent recruiter. Put together one of best defensive staffs, on the other hand his offensive staff has been very mediocre. I think he should give his O staff another year but if they continue to do a poor job he needs to start replacing people.

 

[zwick99]

I haven't really seen PSU people say that. Seems outside haters say it.
Franklin seems like a decent coach so far. He is an excellent recruiter. Put together one of best defensive staffs, on the other hand his offensive staff has been very mediocre. I think he should give his O staff another year but if they continue to do a poor job he needs to start replacing people.

MichNittLion is actually a Michigan troll/fan. He rips PSU all the time on the UM boards. He even posts on the Pitt boards.

 

[YorkLion]

The OL is not nearly as bad as we saw in week 1. But then our competition has not been all that tough these past 5 games. We'll know a lot more Sunday morning.

 

[Art]

It was 65 vs 85. EVERY team has young players who are still developing. Once you take those players out of the equation PSU was at an ever bigger disadvantage statistically because it was more like 45 vs 65.

Are you a Pitt fan or a Joebot?

Neither, just not a ****ing idiot like you.

 

[michnittlion]

Do you think UM should fire Harbaugh since he has one loss just like Franklin?

If/when Harbaugh loses to coaches like Randy Edsall, Brady Hoke, or Tim Beckman --- Harbaugh will likely feel some heat.

(there's a chance this may happen!!! --- Michigan plays Rutgers and Kyle Flood in a few weeks)

If/when Franklin beats coaches like Urban Meyer, Mark Dantonio or Harbuagh --- Franklin will likely feel some more love.

 

[Peetz Pool Boy]

If/when Harbaugh loses to coaches like Randy Edsall, Brady Hoke, or Tim Beckman --- Harbaugh will likely feel some heat.

(there's a chance this may happen!!! --- Michigan plays Rutgers and Kyle Flood in a few weeks)

If/when Franklin beats coaches like Urban Meyer, Mark Dantonio or Harbuagh --- Franklin will likely feel some more love.

You're an embarrassment to not only this board, but PSU in general. You're love for UM is obvious.....a clear manifestation of your longstanding and lingering regrets for getting rejected (aka "dinged") by UMich when you were a younger idiot.

Now you're just an older idiot. Why don't you just quit your day job and apply to be an unpaid Wolverine sideline assistant? I think it would be a win- win for everyone, especially this board.

 

[bjf1984]

You're an embarrassment to not only this board, but PSU in general. You're love for UM is obvious.....a clear manifestation of your longstanding and lingering regrets for getting rejected (aka "dinged") by UMich when you were a younger idiot.

Now you're just an older idiot. Why don't you just quit your day job and apply to be an unpaid Wolverine sideline assistant? I think it would be a win- win for everyone, especially this board.

Someone should COUNT the number of ways in which it would be a "win".

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

Maybe I'm watching something different or have different explanations but you can clearly see this team getting better.

Last year, the team couldn't run at all. We had offensive lineman blocking each other, WR running the wrong routes etc.

Now at least there is the makings of a running game,. The Oline is more or less on the same page, We haven't seen the WR's running different routes then what hack expects.

Now you still see somebody blow an assignment, but it isn't happening nearly as often. You can see glimpses of decent offense, but the consistency isn't there. I'm not sure how you blame this on Franklin. Dropped passes, over/under thrown balls etc. People are being put in spots to at least make plays.

I think it is clear as day as to what they are trying to do. They needed to get a running game going and keep hack off the ground. That led to running and quick passes. This should be of no surprise to anyone. In fact, I think this is good coaching. They needed to work on the running game. They did and got it where we are averaging more the 3 yards a carry(or whatever the number was last year). The short passing game has only struggled due to hack having so many bad throws. Hack should be in mid 60% range with this kind of attack, but a lot, not all, has to do with drops and bad passes. That isn't exactly franklins and the staffs fault. Now we are seeing more and more plays being run and you are starting to see guys open. Now if Hack would hit most of them, we'd be seeing a lot more points. I think he has done a decent job from where he started at. I have no idea what some people are expecting, but this isn't a team who is going to be putting up 50 points a game.

I think next year the offense will be much better with or without Hack. The offense last year in the beginning of the season, looked a lot more advanced then it has up to the Indiana game. So clearly they scaled things back this year so far. Franklin has said what they want to do and are doing it. I don't think I'm making any excuses for Franklin, but I at least can see what he is trying to do and how this will have benefits down the road. I actually think he has done a decent job.

I don't get it either. The guy is a top 10 wage earning coach. That alone makes him elite among his peers

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

Going 0-3 against the "coaching baboon triumvirate" of Brady Hoke, Randy Edsall and Tim Beckman (none of whom are coaching even one year later!!!!) will tend to call your in-game coaching acumen into question.

And that's where I tend to hear the Franklin criticism (which I generally agree with, FWIW): poor IN-GAME coach.

Now, reputations can all change --- and can change quickly. One win over Urban, Harbaugh or Dantonio will change the narrative as regards Franklin being a poor in-game coach.

But we gotta get that win.

Why do you hate PSU so much?

 

[michnittlion]

You're an embarrassment to not only this board, but PSU in general. You're love for UM is obvious.....a clear manifestation of your longstanding and lingering regrets for getting rejected (aka "dinged") by UMich when you were a younger idiot.

Now you're just an older idiot. Why don't you just quit your day job and apply to be an unpaid Wolverine sideline assistant? I think it would be a win- win for everyone, especially this board.

I'm the one and only person in the Top 10 of my high school (you know my high school, so you can prove this claim of mine) graduating class who didn't go to U-MAA.

And it's not because I wasn't accepted there. Wanted to go to PSU instead. Good choice I made.

 

[bjf1984]

I'm the one and only person in the Top 10 of my high school (you know my high school, so you can prove this claim of mine) graduating class who didn't go to U-MAA.

And it's not because I wasn't accepted there. Wanted to go to PSU instead. Good choice I made.

Good for you? Maybe

Bad for us? For Sure.


So now we have three of the World's Most Pretentious Blowhards registered to the BWI Board.......

CR

That dipshit from UM....what was his name? He used the "3 name" deal to sound like even more of a douchewad.

and now (Dear Lord, what have we done to anger you?) we got........

MichNittWitt

 

[Eurotrash1]

The knock on Franklin...and it is my concern as well, is his record against top 25 teams. His lifetime record is 1 win and 10 losses. Now, I understand most of that record was accumulated at Vandy. In order for me to consider him a success, this will need to start trending in a better direction. Beating cupcakes and winning recruiting battles is nice. However, I want some meat with my potatoes.

 

[Roethlisberge]

Going 0-3 against the "coaching baboon triumvirate" of Brady Hoke, Randy Edsall and Tim Beckman (none of whom are coaching even one year later!!!!) will tend to call your in-game coaching acumen into question.

And that's where I tend to hear the Franklin criticism (which I generally agree with, FWIW): poor IN-GAME coach.

Now, reputations can all change --- and can change quickly. One win over Urban, Harbaugh or Dantonio will change the narrative as regards Franklin being a poor in-game coach.

But we gotta get that win.

And what if he gets a win over all three (Urban, Harbaugh and Dantonio) ?
Hmmm ... and maybe the cherry on the top is a win over the SEC champion coach.
Just saying, anything is possible at this point

 

[BobPSU92]

With respect to all the praise for O'Brien, how can people forget the lousy 2013 defense (because he promoted an unrproven Butler to defensive coordinator), going for it on 4th and 7 from your own 32, and abandoning the running game for long stretches? Then there's the off-the-field stuff like being too PC at times with questions about Joe, the stupid "lawsuits aren't helpful" PowerPoint presentation, firing Vanderlinden just before he left for Houston, and the interview with jones when he left.

There are things I like about O'Brien's tenure at Penn State, but there are things I definitely don't like. I don't understand the rose-colored-glasses view of O'Brien that some here seem to have. Come on, guys. It wasn't that long ago.

 

[Eurotrash1]

With respect to all the praise for O'Brien, how can people forget the lousy 2013 defense (because he promoted an unrproven Butler to defensive coordinator), going for it on 4th and 7 from your own 32, and abandoning the running game for long stretches? Then there's the off-the-field stuff like being too PC at times with questions about Joe, the stupid "lawsuits aren't helpful" PowerPoint presentation, firing Vanderlinden just before he left for Houston, and the interview with jones when he left.

There are things I like about O'Brien's tenure at Penn State, but there are things I definitely don't like. I don't understand the rose-colored-glasses view of O'Brien that some here seem to have. Come on, guys. It wasn't that long ago.

He won a few games he wasn't expected to win. Franklin hasn't pulled an upset yet.

 

[BobPSU92]

He won a few games he wasn't expected to win. Franklin hasn't pulled an upset yet.

O'Brien also lost some games he shouldn't have lost. Franklin has had younger and weaker rosters than O'Brien.

 

[Eurotrash1]

I'm just explaining the difference of opinion. I personally am not sold on Franklin but at the same time...I don't think he deserves to be judged yet. Obviously, he recruits well. So far he has won most of the games he is suppose to win. In order to sell me completely, he will need to upset someone at some point. Honestly, if he never beats any of the Big Boys over the next 2 years...is this who we want?

 

[bjf1984]

I'm just explaining the difference of opinion. I personally am not sold on Franklin but at the same time...I don't think he deserves to be judged yet. Obviously, he recruits well. So far he has won most of the games he is suppose to win. In order to sell me completely, he will need to upset someone at some point. Honestly, if he never beats any of the Big Boys over the next 2 years...is this who we want?

 

[zwick99]

The knock on Franklin...and it is my concern as well, is his record against top 25 teams. His lifetime record is 1 win and 10 losses. Now, I understand most of that record was accumulated at Vandy. In order for me to consider him a success, this will need to start trending in a better direction. Beating cupcakes and winning recruiting battles is nice. However, I want some meat with my potatoes.

When has Franklin EVER had a top 25 recruiting class? NEVER at Vandy as per 247.

His first top 25 class was the current redshirt freshman at PSU and his second top 25 class is the current true freshman. Sounds like he overachieved in my book. The point you ignored is Vandy NEVER won the recruiting battles!

 

[mikemauti42]

When has Franklin EVER had a top 25 recruiting class? NEVER at Vandy as per 247.

His first top 25 class was the current redshirt freshman at PSU and his second top 25 class is the current true freshman. Sounds like he overachieved in my book. The point you ignored is Vandy NEVER won the recruiting battles!

People are too dumb to realize that Franklin's success at Vanderbilt was done with classes that were ranked 61st, 71st, and 91st from the previous staffs recruiting. Most of the recruits Franklin landed at Vandy were just beginning to play or contributed very little to his overall record at the school. The guy can coach. He was beating more talented teams on a regular basis in the SEC. The current coach at Vandy hasn't been able to do anything, with more talent available to him, since Franklin left.

 

[Roethlisberge]

People are too dumb to realize that Franklin's success at Vanderbilt was done with classes that were ranked 61st, 71st, and 91st from the previous staffs recruiting. Most of the recruits Franklin landed at Vandy were just beginning to play or contributed very little to his overall record at the school. The guy can coach. He was beating more talented teams on a regular basis in the SEC. The current coach at Vandy hasn't been able to do anything, with more talent available to him, since Franklin left.

I would add that the current coach at Vanderbilt came with a national reputation for having made Stanford into a PAC powerhouse.

 

[zwick99]

If/when Harbaugh loses to coaches like Randy Edsall, Brady Hoke, or Tim Beckman --- Harbaugh will likely feel some heat.

(there's a chance this may happen!!! --- Michigan plays Rutgers and Kyle Flood in a few weeks)

If/when Franklin beats coaches like Urban Meyer, Mark Dantonio or Harbuagh --- Franklin will likely feel some more love.

He already lost to Utah and all their 2 stars.

Do you think he should be fired? Let me know when Harbaugh actually beats Meyer and DAntonio.

Let's be honest, you are not a PSU fan and you are a UM fan.

 

[81b&w]

The knock on Franklin...and it is my concern as well, is his record against top 25 teams. His lifetime record is 1 win and 10 losses. Now, I understand most of that record was accumulated at Vandy. In order for me to consider him a success, this will need to start trending in a better direction. Beating cupcakes and winning recruiting battles is nice. However, I want some meat with my potatoes.

It's obvious Franklin loves to recruit, and is damn good at it. Just think what a high it must be for him to now be able to recruit high profile kids successfully. I expect it was really frustrating recruiting at Vandy with the competition he faced. Even then, the original recruits that followed him to Penn State are all nice players. He's brought in some seriously talented athletes so far and anybody who doesn't think that's gonna translate into more wins better think again. Patience is a virtue and Franklin is setting up the future very well. I can't think of a coach I'd rather have right now, he's perfect for us

 

[delcoLion]

Maybe I'm watching something different or have different explanations but you can clearly see this team getting better.

Last year, the team couldn't run at all. We had offensive lineman blocking each other, WR running the wrong routes etc.

Now at least there is the makings of a running game,. The Oline is more or less on the same page, We haven't seen the WR's running different routes then what hack expects.

Now you still see somebody blow an assignment, but it isn't happening nearly as often. You can see glimpses of decent offense, but the consistency isn't there. I'm not sure how you blame this on Franklin. Dropped passes, over/under thrown balls etc. People are being put in spots to at least make plays.

I think it is clear as day as to what they are trying to do. They needed to get a running game going and keep hack off the ground. That led to running and quick passes. This should be of no surprise to anyone. In fact, I think this is good coaching. They needed to work on the running game. They did and got it where we are averaging more the 3 yards a carry(or whatever the number was last year). The short passing game has only struggled due to hack having so many bad throws. Hack should be in mid 60% range with this kind of attack, but a lot, not all, has to do with drops and bad passes. That isn't exactly franklins and the staffs fault. Now we are seeing more and more plays being run and you are starting to see guys open. Now if Hack would hit most of them, we'd be seeing a lot more points. I think he has done a decent job from where he started at. I have no idea what some people are expecting, but this isn't a team who is going to be putting up 50 points a game.

I think next year the offense will be much better with or without Hack. The offense last year in the beginning of the season, looked a lot more advanced then it has up to the Indiana game. So clearly they scaled things back this year so far. Franklin has said what they want to do and are doing it. I don't think I'm making any excuses for Franklin, but I at least can see what he is trying to do and how this will have benefits down the road. I actually think he has done a decent job.

I think he's a good coach. The question is, is he a 14-1 or 15-0 coach? That's what it will take to bring home the big prize.

That, I don't know. I hope it will be fun to find out.

 

[Art]

I would add that the current coach at Vanderbilt came with a national reputation for having made Stanford into a PAC powerhouse.

Hmmm, I thought Harbaugh was coaching at Michigan.

 

[PSU87]

OB lost games we should not have lost. He does have a couple of wins that were unexpected - UM and Wisky.
Franklin just needs one of those "didn't see it coming" wins. Need to beat one of OSU, UM, or MSU this year and hold serve against Maryland and Illinois.
He's moving in the right direction, just needs a signature win.

 

[Roethlisberge]

Hmmm, I thought Harbaugh was coaching at Michigan.

Derek Mason who did everything for Harbaugh (assistant head coach, defensive coordinator, etc) It was a bit of hyperbole on my part.

Nice to hear from you Art.

 

[Art]

Derek Mason who did everything for Harbaugh (assistant head coach, defensive coordinator, etc) It was a bit of hyperbole on my part.

Nice to hear from you Art.

Uh........no. Mason only coached for one year, 2010, under Harbaugh and was the DB coach (that other East Stroudsburg alum, Vic Fangio, was the DC). Mason didn't get those increased responsibilities you listed until David Shaw took over. By that time, the building job at Stanford was complete.