I don't get the Franklin is not a good coach comments

[uppermaclion]

Maybe I'm watching something different or have different explanations but you can clearly see this team getting better.

Last year, the team couldn't run at all. We had offensive lineman blocking each other, WR running the wrong routes etc.

Now at least there is the makings of a running game,. The Oline is more or less on the same page, We haven't seen the WR's running different routes then what hack expects.

Now you still see somebody blow an assignment, but it isn't happening nearly as often. You can see glimpses of decent offense, but the consistency isn't there. I'm not sure how you blame this on Franklin. Dropped passes, over/under thrown balls etc. People are being put in spots to at least make plays.

I think it is clear as day as to what they are trying to do. They needed to get a running game going and keep hack off the ground. That led to running and quick passes. This should be of no surprise to anyone. In fact, I think this is good coaching. They needed to work on the running game. They did and got it where we are averaging more the 3 yards a carry(or whatever the number was last year). The short passing game has only struggled due to hack having so many bad throws. Hack should be in mid 60% range with this kind of attack, but a lot, not all, has to do with drops and bad passes. That isn't exactly franklins and the staffs fault. Now we are seeing more and more plays being run and you are starting to see guys open. Now if Hack would hit most of them, we'd be seeing a lot more points. I think he has done a decent job from where he started at. I have no idea what some people are expecting, but this isn't a team who is going to be putting up 50 points a game.

I think next year the offense will be much better with or without Hack. The offense last year in the beginning of the season, looked a lot more advanced then it has up to the Indiana game. So clearly they scaled things back this year so far. Franklin has said what they want to do and are doing it. I don't think I'm making any excuses for Franklin, but I at least can see what he is trying to do and how this will have benefits down the road. I actually think he has done a decent job.

 

[michnittlion]

Going 0-3 against the "coaching baboon triumvirate" of Brady Hoke, Randy Edsall and Tim Beckman (none of whom are coaching even one year later!!!!) will tend to call your in-game coaching acumen into question.

And that's where I tend to hear the Franklin criticism (which I generally agree with, FWIW): poor IN-GAME coach.

Now, reputations can all change --- and can change quickly. One win over Urban, Harbaugh or Dantonio will change the narrative as regards Franklin being a poor in-game coach.

But we gotta get that win.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Same reason so many people hated O'Brien. They wanted a Paterno guy, so they latched on to coaches like Munchak or Golden. Never mind the fact that Golden is a complete total colossal failure at the U and Munchak hasn't sniffed college ball since he graduated 35 years ago and showed no interest whatsoever in coming here.

We could have brought in Pete Carroll or Urban Meyer and it would not have made any difference. Dealing with a thin roster, lack of talent, and good talent that is green, Franklin has done about as well as could be reasonably expected. It's just the constant pick, pick, pick because we didn't hire a PSU guy.

We start winning big again in 2017 and beyond, the complainers will clam up and deny they ever had a bad word to say.

 

[mikemauti42]

That narrative was started by fans of Rival fanbases who were seeing our recruiting classes and getting concerned. It spilled over to our fanbase when this team struggled last year, because many became enamored with the recruiting Franklin was doing and did not realize that this team had some serious holes that would not be fixed by a recruiting class. It was the perfect storm.

The truth is Franklin and his staff can coach. At one point both the Maryland and Pitt fanbases wanted him as their coach. You never heard a word at Vanderbilt about Franklin being a salesman. You heard about him being a very hot commodity in the field. In fact, he took poor recruiting classes from previous staff's and turned them into winners. Many of his recruits were just starting to see the field when he left. Soon Franklin will start to win and win big. The narrative will then switch to "he only plays cupcakes" and when he only beat OSU, MSU, or Mich because they were in a down year. It might not completely turn this year, but you can see it happening very soon.

 

[zwick99]

[

Going 0-3 against the coaching triumvirate of Brady Hoke, Randy Edsall and Tim Beckman (none of whom are coaching even one year later!!!!) will tend to call your in-game coaching acumen into question.

All those games were 1 possession games, of course, and featured rather strange decisions from Franklin. The fake punt plus the timeout before the safety against Michigan. The QB sneak on the game's last drive against Maryland. The punt on 4th-and-inches against Illinois.

Now, reputations can all change --- and can change quickly. One win over Urban, Harbaugh or Dantonio will change the narrative as regards Franklin being a poor in-game coach.

But we gotta get that win.

Better record after 6 games than Obrien ever had.

Maybe you preferred the results vs Virginia, UCF, Indiana and Ohio with OB.

 

[BBrown]

Going 0-3 against the coaching triumvirate of Brady Hoke, Randy Edsall and Tim Beckman (none of whom are coaching even one year later!!!!) will tend to call your in-game coaching acumen into question.

All those games were 1 possession games, of course, and featured rather strange decisions from Franklin. The fake punt plus the timeout before the safety against Michigan. The QB sneak on the game's last drive against Maryland. The punt on 4th-and-inches against Illinois.

Now, reputations can all change --- and can change quickly. One win over Urban, Harbaugh or Dantonio will change the narrative as regards Franklin being a poor in-game coach.

But we gotta get that win.

The Michigan game and Illinois game I'll give you.
The MD game not as much. If we don't fumble the kickoff it never gets to the point where the QB sneak matters.
OB had some head scratchers as well...see the Indy and Minny games.
No coach makes the right call every time.
Bottom line is its a pretty small sample size of a year and half. (I'm not counting what he did at Vandy since I (and I doubt many others) paid any attention to them.

 

[michnittlion]

[

Better record after 6 games than Obrien ever had.

Maybe you preferred the results vs Virginia, UCF, Indiana and Ohio with OB.

I LOVED the game against Virginia. Absolutely LOVED it. That game was one of the defining moments --- to the good side --- of the O'Brien era.

Yes, we lost. But we played with heart and effort and laid it all out on the field.

Given the previous 2 months and the discouraging performance the week before vs. Ohio University, it would have been easy for that team to give up. Didn't happen. Partially because of O'Brien and his refusal to allow it to happen.

Bash on O'Brien as much as you want. These facts remain --- Penn State was 8-1 straight-up and 8-1 against the spread under O'Brien when coming off of a straight-up loss. VERY good statistics those are.

 

[bjf1984]

"That narrative was started by fans of Rival fanbases who were seeing our recruiting classes and getting concerned. It spilled over to our fanbase when this team struggled last year, because many became enamored with the recruiting Franklin was doing and did not realize that this team had some serious holes that would not be fixed by a recruiting class. It was the perfect storm."

Exactly.

That is the most frustrating aspect to this line of conversation.

Plenty of items to critique, second-guess, etc wrt this (or ANY) coaching staff.

And all that is fine and dandy.

_______________________________________________

But the legion of pseudo-fans (the MichNittWitts) and the pure oblivious dunderheads parroting the mantra of the rival fan bases......it's just laughable.
Half of them (I expect) don't even realize where it all came from.

 

[bjf1984]

I LOVED the game against Virginia. Absolutely LOVED it. That game was one of the defining moments --- to the good side --- of the O'Brien era.

Yes, we lost. But we played with heart and effort and laid it all out on the field.

Given the previous 2 months and the discouraging performance the week before vs. Ohio University, it would have been easy for that team to give up. Didn't happen. Partially because of O'Brien and his refusal to allow it to happen.

Bash on O'Brien as much as you want. These facts remain --- Penn State was 8-1 straight-up and 8-1 against the spread under O'Brien when coming off of a straight-up loss. VERY good statistics those are.

How were they on weeks that encompassed a New Moon?

Now, if you weren't such a blatant doofus......you would at least give the same recognition to taking MNC OSU to double overtime.....a year after being blown out 63-14.....right?


Oops....your slip is showing. Doofus.

 

[michnittlion]

How were they on weeks that encompassed a New Moon?

Now, if you weren't such a blatant doofus......you would at least give the same recognition to taking MNC OSU to double overtime.....a year after being blown out 63-14.....right?


Oops....your slip is showing. Doofus.

Sure, I'll give recognition to the Ohio State game. We played well that night.

That's the one game in Franklin's Penn State career where we have covered the spread (1-4-1 overall) in a regular season game that immediately followed-up a straight-up loss.

The stats are what they are. New moons or not.

 

[bjf1984]

Sure, I'll give recognition to the Ohio State game. We played well that night.

That's the one game in Franklin's Penn State career where we have covered the spread (1-4-1 overall) in a regular season game that immediately followed-up a straight-up loss.

The stats are what they are. New moons or not.

LOL

Hell, I liked BO'B...think he is a fine coach.

And CJF's staff:
- has a better overall winning percentage than BO'Bs staff
- despite playing fewer games, have had twice as many 3+ game winning streaks as BO'Bs staff
- have held opponents to 20 points or less 50% more often than BO'Bs staff
- have won Infinite% more Bowl Games than BO'Bs staff

See how much fun it can be to pick your stats?


OK....so now the question is:

Are you truly that dumb?
that oblivious?
or that conflicted?

Or, is it a mixture of all three?


PS - Just so you know....CJF is 3-0 under a New Moon.....so ya' got that one as well

 

[BBrown]

Sure, I'll give recognition to the Ohio State game. We played well that night.

That's the one game in Franklin's Penn State career where we have covered the spread (1-4-1 overall) in a regular season game that immediately followed-up a straight-up loss.

The stats are what they are. New moons or not.

Who gives a crap whether we beat the point spread or not unless your gambling on it and then thats on you.
I just want to win.

 

[zwick99]

I LOVED the game against Virginia. Absolutely LOVED it. That game was one of the defining moments --- to the good side --- of the O'Brien era.

Yes, we lost. But we played with heart and effort and laid it all out on the field.

Given the previous 2 months and the discouraging performance the week before vs. Ohio University, it would have been easy for that team to give up. Didn't happen. Partially because of O'Brien and his refusal to allow it to happen.

Bash on O'Brien as much as you want. These facts remain --- Penn State was 8-1 straight-up and 8-1 against the spread under O'Brien when coming off of a straight-up loss. VERY good statistics those are.

I don't care about the spread. I care about winning. You are not even a PSU fan. Only a fraud would look at a loss and covering the spread as a win.\

Go back to the UM board. Don't you have another thread to post about PSU or Sparty on the UM board?

 

[PSU87]

Sure, I'll give recognition to the Ohio State game. We played well that night.

That's the one game in Franklin's Penn State career where we have covered the spread (1-4-1 overall) in a regular season game that immediately followed-up a straight-up loss.

The stats are what they are. New moons or not.

Who gives a crap about the spread? Seriously. Will you somehow feel better losing to OSU by 17 instead of 18?
On Friday I think anyone here would have gladly taken a 3 point win over IU vs a 7 point win to "cover".
Point spread? I. Don't. Care.

 

[michnittlion]

Who gives a crap whether we beat the point spread or not unless your gambling on it and then thats on you.
I just want to win.

OK ..... straight-up. Penn State is 2-4 straight-up under CJF in regular season games that immediately follow a straight-up loss.

That includes losses to these two members of the coaching fraternity: Brady Hoke (he's currently unemployed) and Randy Edsall (he's also currently unemployed).

 

[michnittlion]

I don't care about the spread. I care about winning. You are not even a PSU fan. Only a fraud would look at a loss and covering the spread as a win.\

Go back to the UM board. Don't you have another thread to post about PSU or Sparty on the UM board?

Yes, the missed field goals were unfortunate, but I don't know how any PSU fan could be unimpressed by Penn State that day.

We greatly outplayed Virginia, on the road in a hostile environment at a time, given the previous 2 months, when it would have been very easy to pack up tent and quit.

 

[bjf1984]

OK ..... straight-up. Penn State is 2-4 straight-up under CJF in regular season games that immediately follow a straight-up loss.

That includes losses to these two members of the coaching fraternity: Brady Hoke (he's currently unemployed) and Randy Edsall (he's also currently unemployed).

How about in games played in a non-eastern time zone.......in the last two weeks of a given month......immediately following a tropical storm with a name that includes three or more vowels?

 

[mikemauti42]

Yes, the missed field goals were unfortunate, but I don't know how any PSU fan could be unimpressed by Penn State that day.

We greatly outplayed Virginia, on the road in a hostile environment at a time, given the previous 2 months, when it would have been very easy to pack up tent and quit.

You mean the same Virginia team that went on to finish 4-8 that year?

 

[BBrown]

OK ..... straight-up. Penn State is 2-4 straight-up under CJF in regular season games that immediately follow a straight-up loss.

That includes losses to these two members of the coaching fraternity: Brady Hoke (he's currently unemployed) and Randy Edsall (he's also currently unemployed).

Straight up... can we wait until Franklin has his recruits and all his players and not including a sample size when we didn't even have a complete roster?

 

[ram2020]

Sure, I'll give recognition to the Ohio State game. We played well that night.

The stats are what they are. New moons or not.

Why are you so obsessed with what we did after a loss? straight fact Franklin has won 5 after his last loss. I love that people cite that statistic about OB. "Yeah, he lost to miserable Indiana by 20, but he won his next game, god he is so resilient"

How bout just don't lose to teams like Indiana, something Joe and Franklin don't do.

 

[royboy]

Straight up... can we wait until Franklin has his recruits and all his players and not including a sample size when we didn't even have a complete roster?

Agree. Not sure why posters engage michnittlion in any serious attempt.
He's an attention-seeking troll.

 

[zwick99]

You mean the same Virginia team that went on to finish 4-8 that year?

He is a UM fan. Most of his posts are on the Michigan board and he rips PSU.

I wonder if he like the UM loss to PSU when UM covered the spread.

 

[zwick99]

Agree. Not sure why posters engage michnittlion in any serious attempt.
He's an attention-seeking troll.

UM fan.

 

[michnittlion]

How about in games played in a non-eastern time zone.......in the last two weeks of a given month......immediately following a tropical storm with a name that includes three or more vowels?

Well, since you asked ...

Coach Franklin: 1-1 in games played in non-Eastern Time Zones.

Coach O'Brien: 3-2 in such games.

If you're playing a game of "stump michnittlion"--- you are failing in terms of finding ANY statistic where our current coach is better than our former coach.

 

[YorkLion]

When you are the 8th highest paid FB coach, many will question whether you are worth it or not.

I have no idea if he's a great coach or not. But he's our coach right now.

 

[bjf1984]

Well, since you asked ...

Coach Franklin: 1-1 in games played in non-Eastern Time Zones.

Coach O'Brien: 3-2 in such games.

If you're playing a game of "stump michnittlion"--- you are failing in terms of finding ANY statistic where our current coach is better than our former coach.

LOL Captain Oblivious.

I guess you "missed" that post.



Douchenozzle.


If you really want to engage in an evenly matched battle of wits.....hold on a second.....my dog is just coming in from taking a MichNittWitt....he may have a moment to kill.

 

[bvillebaron]

I LOVED the game against Virginia. Absolutely LOVED it. That game was one of the defining moments --- to the good side --- of the O'Brien era.

Yes, we lost. But we played with heart and effort and laid it all out on the field.

Given the previous 2 months and the discouraging performance the week before vs. Ohio University, it would have been easy for that team to give up. Didn't happen. Partially because of O'Brien and his refusal to allow it to happen.

Bash on O'Brien as much as you want. These facts remain --- Penn State was 8-1 straight-up and 8-1 against the spread under O'Brien when coming off of a straight-up loss. VERY good statistics those are.

You LOVED the Virginia game? Look O'Brien did a good job under trying circumstances, I will give you that and, unlike many others, I don't hate him for leaving. If I recall correctly, you are one of those who has been critical of Franklin. The truth is that O'Brien was also the coach in lopsided losses to OSU (somewhat understandable) and Indiana (huh?) with more veteran talent, particularly on the OL, than Franklin has even now. But for 2 calls which the officials now admit they blew, Franklin would have beaten the national champ last year. I think they both did good and commendable jobs under circumstances which no other coaches ever had to deal with. However, you don't have two 9-3 seasons at Vandy in the SEC if you can't coach so the Franklin can recruit but can't coach oft repeated criticism is pure BS and is getting more than a little tiresome in this corner.

P.S. I could care less about the spreads and only wins and losses. Was the spread in the OSU game -50 OSU?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

[

Better record after 6 games than Obrien ever had.

Maybe you preferred the results vs Virginia, UCF, Indiana and Ohio with OB.

Honestly, with the talent he had, O'Brien should have had a much better record. Unreal he won Coach of the Year with that record and the NFL talent he had in year one.

 

[bvillebaron]

Honestly, with the talent he had, O'Brien should have had a much better record. Unreal he won Coach of the Year with that record and the NFL talent he had in year one.

Well I don't know about that. I thought O'Brien's record was about right all things considered. Sure, he had some NFL talent he inherited, but he had to deal with the sanctions and all that entailed, including defections, players graduating after his first year, etc.

 

[YorkLion]

I was quite happy with the Season ending wins over Wisconsin. The home win in 2012 was incredible and the one to end 2013 was beyond that. It's kind of crazy to knock either coach right now.

 

[bytir]

VERY good statistics those are

Channeling Yoda?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Well I don't know about that. I thought O'Brien's record was about right all things considered. Sure, he had some NFL talent he inherited, but he had to deal with the sanctions and all that entailed, including defections, players graduating after his first year, etc.

He still had more to work with in both of his years than Franklin has had in either of his. Lack of senior leadership and experience is hurting Franklin and this team. OB had plenty of both his two years - even with the defections.

 

[mikemauti42]

 

[capkrokus]

Maybe I'm watching something different or have different explanations but you can clearly see this team getting better.

Last year, the team couldn't run at all. We had offensive lineman blocking each other, WR running the wrong routes etc.

Now at least there is the makings of a running game,. The Oline is more or less on the same page, We haven't seen the WR's running different routes then what hack expects.

Now you still see somebody blow an assignment, but it isn't happening nearly as often. You can see glimpses of decent offense, but the consistency isn't there. I'm not sure how you blame this on Franklin. Dropped passes, over/under thrown balls etc. People are being put in spots to at least make plays.

I think it is clear as day as to what they are trying to do. They needed to get a running game going and keep hack off the ground. That led to running and quick passes. This should be of no surprise to anyone. In fact, I think this is good coaching. They needed to work on the running game. They did and got it where we are averaging more the 3 yards a carry(or whatever the number was last year). The short passing game has only struggled due to hack having so many bad throws. Hack should be in mid 60% range with this kind of attack, but a lot, not all, has to do with drops and bad passes. That isn't exactly franklins and the staffs fault. Now we are seeing more and more plays being run and you are starting to see guys open. Now if Hack would hit most of them, we'd be seeing a lot more points. I think he has done a decent job from where he started at. I have no idea what some people are expecting, but this isn't a team who is going to be putting up 50 points a game.

I think next year the offense will be much better with or without Hack. The offense last year in the beginning of the season, looked a lot more advanced then it has up to the Indiana game. So clearly they scaled things back this year so far. Franklin has said what they want to do and are doing it. I don't think I'm making any excuses for Franklin, but I at least can see what he is trying to do and how this will have benefits down the road. I actually think he has done a decent job.

I'm waiting until the end of the year to grade him. Everyone seemed to like BOB as a coach, but I think winning 6 games last year with under 50 ships was just as impressive as BOB winning 8 in his first season.

Franklin is a much better recruiter, and college football isn't about the "X's & O's" It's about the "Jim's & the Joe's"

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

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[Art]

I'm waiting until the end of the year to grade him. Everyone seemed to like BOB as a coach, but I think winning 6 games last year with under 50 ships was just as impressive as BOB winning 8 in his first season.

Franklin is a much better recruiter, and college football isn't about the "X's & O's" It's about the "Jim's & the Joe's"

PSU had more than 50 players on scholarship, Franklin just chose to play fewer. Most coaches don't play the entire 85 or so they have, so it's not a 50 v 85 comparison.

 

[canuckhal]

Sure, I'll give recognition to the Ohio State game. We played well that night.

That's the one game in Franklin's Penn State career where we have covered the spread (1-4-1 overall) in a regular season game that immediately followed-up a straight-up loss.

The stats are what they are. New moons or not.

Ha. Franklin doesn't understand spreads and doesn't care about them.

 

[Raffycorn]

Yeah. And that worked out so well for them.

I think what the quote is implying is that UCLA's staff was happy that USC hired Sark instead of Franklin, the implication being that Franklin would make life much more difficult for UCLA than Sark would. I'd say they were dead on.

 

[canuckhal]

Yeah. And that worked out so well for them.

Worked out great for UCLA and worked out great for us. Who knew? There is such a thing as win win.

 

[capkrokus]

PSU had more than 50 players on scholarship, Franklin just chose to play fewer. Most coaches don't play the entire 85 or so they have, so it's not a 50 v 85 comparison.

Fair enough. Bottom line is that BOB had more to work with in his first year.