How many state wrestling tournaments does your home state have?

[Psalm 1 guy]

I find it fascinating how individual states choose to separate their sports programs by respective school size. As an example, my birth state of Oregon, with a population of 4.2 million, has five individual state wrestling tournaments (6A,5A,4A,3A and 2A/1A). Pennsylvania, with a population of approximately 13 million, has two state tournaments, and California, with a population of over 39 million, only has one state tournament. So, if my math is correct, your odds are 46 times greater to win an Oregon state title than a California state title! That still didn't help me, as I only made it to my state tournament in Oregon once and didn't place Diluted state tournaments along with the fact that in some states wrestling is not that popular, help explain how being a four-time state champ may not always tell the full story of a wrestler's skill level.

 

[WreslingFan0314]

Agree!

Indiana has one State Champion. No classes, no separation of public and private schools.
- It's a unique format. All wrestlers qualify/compete. It takes 4 weeks to complete the tournament and only the first week is seeded and includes wrestlebacks (to 5th/6th only).
- Lose early in the 2nd (Regional) or 3rd (Semi-State) round and you're done. No chance for advancement.
- At the Semi-State you must win your first 2 matches and get to the semifinal to qualify for state.
- It is common for 2 highly ranked wrestlers to meet in the Semi-State Quarterfinal in a loser goes home match. It's both gut wrenching for kids that lose, but an incredibly exciting round for fans. (Though most would rather have the wrestlebacks)
- At State, lose in the first round and you're done. Lose in the Quarterfinal and you can wrestle back to 5th Place. Reach the Semifinal and you're guaranteed at least 4th.
- The Placement matches from 3rd to 8th are wrestled in the afternoon on Saturday.
- The Finals event is incredible, NCAA style if you will. Introduction of wrestlers with full accomplishments announced. The lights are down, with the only lighting focused on the mat.
- The State Finals are held at Gainbridge Fieldhouse, the arena that hosts the Pacers and currently the Big Ten basketball tournament. This year's final round had attendance of over 17,000. It also included Jesse Mendez capping his HS career becoming only the 10th IN HS Wrestling 4x Champion.

Not many HS kids get the opportunity to compete in that kind of atmosphere! But yes, back to the OP, an IN State Placer could very easily translate to a State Champion in other states.

 

[raslen007]

I have always felt that most states top guys are fairly close. Where I think PA is a bit above is in depth. It's crazy how many good kids fall short here in Pa.

 

[Lovethissport]

NJ….One! https://tenor.com/E3wT.gif

 

[WreslingFan0314]

I have always felt that most states top guys are fairly close. Where I think PA is a bit above is in depth. It's crazy how many good kids fall short here in Pa.

I don't think there is any doubt states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois and others have more depth.

 

[kingslayer_85]

NJ….One! https://tenor.com/E3wT.gif

I grew up in PA and have lived in NJ for some time. I really favor the one tournament ,I understand the arguments against but have become a huge supporter of the single tournament.

 

[AgSurfer]

WA has five classes plus a girls division. I made a point on a message board a few years ago that having so many divisions waters down the impact of winning a state title and most college coaches don’t put much weight behind a kid who wins a state championship unless he also goes to the big tournaments where guys from other states show up. Someone who I have a lot of respect for posted a rebuttal that most of the kids don’t continue wrestling in college,?so the multiple divisions give them a chance to get some recognition while they are still competing. I had to admit that he had a a good point.

 

[1AA]

WA has five classes plus a girls division. I made a point on a message board a few years ago that having so many divisions waters down the impact of winning a state title and most college coaches don’t put much weight behind a kid who wins a state championship unless he also goes to the big tournaments where guys from other states show up. Someone who I have a lot of respect for posted a rebuttal that most of the kids don’t continue wrestling in college,?so the multiple divisions give them a chance to get some recognition while they are still competing. I had to admit that he had a a good point.

Certainly the five classifications in WA water it down tremendously but the mat classic experience is amazing. They are talking about splitting the girls up also. I hope not. Our girls state is possibly the toughest in the nation.

 

[creamery freak]

I find it fascinating how individual states choose to separate their sports programs by respective school size. As an example, my birth state of Oregon, with a population of 4.2 million, has five individual state wrestling tournaments (6A,5A,4A,3A and 2A/1A). Pennsylvania, with a population of approximately 13 million, has two state tournaments, and California, with a population of over 39 million, only has one state tournament. So, if my math is correct, your odds are 46 times greater to win an Oregon state title than a California state title! That still didn't help me, as I only made it to my state tournament in Oregon once and didn't place Diluted state tournaments along with the fact that in some states wrestling is not that popular, help explain how being a four-time state champ may not always tell the full story of a wrestler's skill level.

Good post Psalm1, I think PA does a good thing with 2 classifications in wrestling. PA use to be 4 classifications in Football and Basketball for boys but has expanded to 6 and that would really water down the wrestling. I know here in District 4 that Jersey Shore, a former 3A school and now 4A in Football, wrestles in the AA PA bracket. The biggest problem in PA, that the PIAA hasn't addressed is the separation of public and parochial/private schools. That should be addressed, but the tournaments are a big money maker. The other fact, not lost on people is there isn't too much faith in the PIAA not being corrupt here in PA.

 

[nitlion6]

Good post Psalm1, I think PA does a good thing with 2 classifications in wrestling. PA use to be 4 classifications in Football and Basketball for boys but has expanded to 6 and that would really water down the wrestling. I know here in District 4 that Jersey Shore, a former 3A school and now 4A in Football, wrestles in the AA PA bracket. The biggest problem in PA, that the PIAA hasn't addressed is the separation of public and parochial/private schools. That should be addressed, but the tournaments are a big money maker. The other fact, not lost on people is there isn't too much faith in the PIAA not being corrupt here in PA.

The chances are infinitely greater that Mark Emmert loses sleep over the damage he did to PSU than the PIAA is not corrupt.

 

[El-Jefe]

Virginia has 6 classes.

 

[oldcougar65]

Back in the day when men were men, the PA post-season landscape was a pressure cooker that didn't allow for one misstep. That was the era of one and done. You lose, you go home, no matter what the post-season level you've reached.
The WINNER of sections advanced. Second? You're gone. Same true at districts and regions. So our district championships were just two rounds. And the kicker? With 53 teams in our district, that still wasn't enough to make a region. So our region consisted of 2 large districts, one kid from each wrestling for the championship. The regional winner made states. 12 weight classes, 4 regions, 48 wrestlers made states, period. Our district split evenly with the other district at Regions, so only 6 wrestlers from our district made states that year (two from my team, I might add.) This weekend 65 wrestlers from my districts made states. More than 10 times the number of kids made states this year than when I was in school (and none from my team, I might add - how the mighty have fallen). And at least with only 6 total wrestlers we had 1 state champ. This year with 65 wrestlers? None.

I think it was 1972 or thereabouts when the PIAA made the epic decision to allow 2nd place finishers to advance. I was outraged! What a bunch of wimps, said I. Then I watched a guy place 2nd in sections, 2nd in districts, 2nd in regions and 2nd in the state, losing to 4 different wrestlers. Forced me to reassess my opinion. It was a few years later that the PIAA split the tourney into A and B by size. I'm still not too sure that was a good idea.

Wrestling has improved not because of enthusiasm about the sport. It was the biggest sport in my school 60 years ago. We would get 2,100 spectators for a dual meet. It's advanced training and the preponderance of tournaments that has improved wrestling so much over the years. During my era, many wrestled not to lose. One and done has a profound effect on your ability to let it all hang out.

I mentioned that in '65, 6 wrestlers from my district made it to states, period. This weekend, 5 wrestlers per weight class made it to states. From the point of view of a wrestler, making states in my era was the biggest accomplishment imaginable. I well remember in 6th grade thinking, "If I win regions, it'll be unbelievable!". And I still remember the blinding rush I got when the ref raised my hand in the region finals (I thought the other guy had riding time, but he didn't --- my geography teacher was on the time clock, I kid you not).
But today, from a really good wrestler's POV, not making states is kinda disgraceful. Crap, they have 5 spots at a weight class for the district to make states? How can you not make states?

But the wrestling is so good in part because the kids know that if they lose they are still alive. That single thought allows many to take chances they otherwise wouldn't attempt.

 

[zzs006]

Colorado has 5 classes I believe. There have been 29 4 time champions through all divisions but 13 have come since 2014. Pretty interesting stat I thought. The state tournament is held at the Pepsi Center (might have changed name again) where the Nuggets play and the finals have 5 mats with all divisions wrestling at the same time. It is a sell out crowd every year with 17,000 plus watching. Pretty amazing environment and something I will never forget

 

[dunkej01]

Maryland has 2 but it's called 1A/2A and 3A/4A

Which is fine but the talent level....bless their hearts...is more VA than PA.

Our youth coach took our kids to MAWAs regional qualifier last weekend and had their eyes opened.

This weekend we had our youth MJWL championship and we did well. Parents last night were saying we must have had an off weekend the weekend before. I just nod my head, smoke my cigar, and sip my whiskey.

I will say this year our school didn't win a state tournament. Which doesn't happen much. We have a very young team and last years state championship team was senior loaded.

If my son sticks with the sport he'll probably hold a state championship team trophy. I'll be as proud of that as any PA championship.....but it's not the same. It's just not and that is ok

 

[NoVa Lion]

Maryland has 2 but it's called 1A/2A and 3A/4A

Which is fine but the talent level....bless their hearts...is more VA than PA.

Our youth coach took our kids to MAWAs regional qualifier last weekend and had their eyes opened.

This weekend we had our youth MJWL championship and we did well. Parents last night were saying we must have had an off weekend the weekend before. I just nod my head, smoke my cigar, and sip my whiskey.

I will say this year our school didn't win a state tournament. Which doesn't happen much. We have a very young team and last years state championship team was senior loaded.

If my son sticks with the sport he'll probably hold a state championship team trophy. I'll be as proud of that as any PA championship.....but it's not the same. It's just not and that is ok

Most of the D1 AAs that come out of MD go to private schools, see Snyder, Mack Lewnes, etc. MD & VA and most states do not allow the private schools to compete against the public schools in the post season tournaments.

 

[BrockBronson]

If Pa went to one, could you imagine some of the brackets. Wow

 

[El-Jefe]

If my son sticks with the sport he'll probably hold a state championship team trophy. I'll be as proud of that as any PA championship.....but it's not the same. It's just not and that is ok

Maryland Bronson would track your son moving from Shik to Maryland, to de-legitimize the trophy.

 

[BrockBronson]

Maryland Bronson would track your son moving from Shik to Maryland, to de-legitimize the trophy.

Facts ha

 

[dunkej01]

Most of the D1 AAs that come out of MD go to private schools, see Snyder, Mack Lewnes, etc. MD & VA and most states do not allow the private schools to compete against the public schools in the post season tournaments.

To be honest from what I see across the sports fields....the best kids get identified early and go private or club regardless of sport. This drains the public school field but at least they do separate the public/private schools.

My daughter's friend on her soccer team, her brother signed a deal w DC united and he is a HS junior but signed as a freshman. This is new to me how this works.

In football my sons team has lost since 8U to the same Arbutus team in the championship every year. They have a kid well read about in recruiting circles soon i believe. He won't play against us in 13U as st. Francis is said to be his HS destination. He's the best youth football player I've ever seen. We have a better team but he's just WOW. He got hurt thus year and missed a lot of time but he is a 1 man show on both sides of the ball. I think defense is his calling but we'll see what happens.

A kid on my son's team, his uncle is Kerry Collins, they moved in from CA. He played in a league out there with Maurice Jones drew son and MDJ as the coach. He said this kid from Arbutus is the best he's ever seen too. He also said you will read about MDJs son soon.

it just seems in maryland with the money people have that private schools get the true talent. Pa isn't set up like this due to the rural nature of the state.

 

[dunkej01]

Maryland Bronson would track your son moving from Shik to Maryland, to de-legitimize the trophy.

Lolololol

 

[lookleft goright]

Illinois has 3. When it was only 2 classes, it was brutal. It is still pretty decent, but not like was. One thing of interest is that in illinois, the lowest class is up to 750 kids and the middle class is 750-1500 ish and the biggest class is over 1500. We have about 128 schools in each class. Many states have much smaller numbers in their classes. I find that fascinating and surprising. I always tell kids that there is no easy weight to win a title in Illinois.

 

[LorenzoFan]

Lets discuss how many non school state championships there are. Or how many so called nationals there are.

 

[El-Jefe]

In football my sons team has lost since 8U to the same Arbutus team in the championship every year. They have a kid well read about in recruiting circles soon i believe. He won't play against us in 13U as st. Francis is said to be his HS destination. He's the best youth football player I've ever seen. We have a better team but he's just WOW. He got hurt thus year and missed a lot of time but he is a 1 man show on both sides of the ball. I think defense is his calling but we'll see what happens.

Just wait until the other kids "borrow" his car.

 

[Waste Management Consultant]

If you add the MIAA tournament that fields almost all the private schools, Then Maryland would have 3. Maryland has no business having 2 public school tournaments. At least in PA with the talent depth it can be justified. I get frustrated listening to some of the talk about how some of these guys can win in PA. For example, this year one of the top Maryland teams went to a tournament in PA. They had 3 champions (all fantastic wrestlers) Only one had a state placer/qualifier in the 32 man bracket. The MD guy (a junior potential/currently career undefeated multiple time champ which is a fantastic achievement in any state). He beat a PA guy in the finals 3-2 who pulled a few minor upsets to place 8th in the state this past weekend. There are, if being completely objective, maybe 5 guys across MD publics that would possibly be in the mix to make the finals in PA, and that’s pulling a few upsets. Most MD state champs would find it difficult to place, let alone win a tournament match in Hershey. Most would likely even find it difficult to make it there in the first place. Sure, my Western PA roots might make me slightly biased, but I have never seen Tom Brands or Tom Ryan, etc. on the concourse at the Showplace Arena in Upper Marlboro.

 

[El-Jefe]

If you add the MIAA tournament that fields almost all the private schools, Then Maryland would have 3. Maryland has no business having 2 public school tournaments. At least in PA with the talent depth it can be justified. I get frustrated listening to some of the talk about how some of these guys can win in PA. For example, this year one of the top Maryland teams went to a tournament in PA. They had 3 champions (all fantastic wrestlers) Only one had a state placer/qualifier in the 32 man bracket. The MD guy (a junior potential/currently career undefeated multiple time champ which is a fantastic achievement in any state). He beat a PA guy in the finals 3-2 who pulled a few minor upsets to place 8th in the state this past weekend. There are, if being completely objective, maybe 5 guys across MD publics that would possibly be in the mix to make the finals in PA, and that’s pulling a few upsets. Most MD state champs would find it difficult to place, let alone win a tournament match in Hershey. Most would likely even find it difficult to make it there in the first place. Sure, my Western PA roots might make me slightly biased, but I have never seen Tom Brands or Tom Ryan, etc. on the concourse at the Showplace Arena in Upper Marlboro.

I'll go out on a limb and say Aaron Brooks would've won in Hershey.

If you REALLY want me to go out on a limb: I'll say Bob Truby would've won in Hershey.

And that's before we get to private school kids like Snyder and Lewnes.

But, yeah, Maryland public schools generally don't produce a ton of talent.

 

[dunkej01]

I'll go out on a limb and say Aaron Brooks would've won in Hershey.

If you REALLY want me to go out on a limb: I'll say Bob Truby would've won in Hershey.

And that's before we get to private school kids like Snyder and Lewnes.

But, yeah, Maryland public schools generally don't produce a ton of talent.

Maybe this is why brands didn't call brooks.....

 

[Waste Management Consultant]

I'll go out on a limb and say Aaron Brooks would've won in Hershey.

If you REALLY want me to go out on a limb: I'll say Bob Truby would've won in Hershey.

And that's before we get to private school kids like Snyder and Lewnes.

But, yeah, Maryland public schools generally don't produce a ton of talent.

Jefe,
I would agreee. If you re-read the post, I think we are saying the same thing.
*****No one is arguing the privates. Whole different beast.

 

[oldcougar65]

This used to go on when the PIAA pre-seeded states based upon Regional placement:
every now and then a wrestler would medical forfeit the region finals to alter their seeding at States, knowing that a win might give them a hammer before the finals.

 

[nitlion6]

I'll go out on a limb and say Aaron Brooks would've won in Hershey.

If you REALLY want me to go out on a limb: I'll say Bob Truby would've won in Hershey.

And that's before we get to private school kids like Snyder and Lewnes.

But, yeah, Maryland public schools generally don't produce a ton of talent.

Truby did win in Hershey. I already know you know this.
His freshman and sophomore seasons he most likely would have been competitive at Hershey, but he wrestled 98 and 105 those two seasons. The AAA 98 and 105 pound champion those two years was a dude named Jack Cuvo. Wrestling in PA is brutally tough, and every year seems to get tougher.