Holy Crap. Honest question... Did anyone expect Biden's presidency to be this level of disaster?

bourbon n blues

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Not sure you can lay all this at Trump's feet. He was listening to all the so-called experts who were all advising him to shut things down to "stop the spread". It's easy to play Monday morning QB, but all I remember from 2020 was Trump being ripped mercilessly for not doing ENOUGH... of actually being responsible for killing thousands of people with his Administration's inaction.

And now all we hear is it's Trump's fault for his role in shutting down the economy in reaction to "the greatest public health crisis in history". So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. When faced with such a choice, good leaders err on the side a prudence and follow the advise of public health officials rather than what will be best for your short-term political prospects. And that's what Trump did.
Bingo, I recall the same thing.
 
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WPTLION

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Trump allowed the lockdowns - which came from his Covid team (from which he never fired anyone) - that necessitated the printing of the 6'ish TRILLION dollars.

Trump was POTUS when this ball got rolling in the wrong direction. Hell, he helped push it, and never did anything to stop it.

Put anther way, Trump started this dumpster fire. But Biden came in, and all he's done is throw all of our gasoline on the dumpster fire! Like, WTF!?
You would have a point IF, after May he was still calling for lockdowns. The original "stimulus" was needed, the problem was Dem run States stayed closed way to long(on purpose). For all the bashing Trump took for Covid---he listened to the "experts" at the beginning and probably should have ran with his gut. That's what happens when you have a one party media that controls the narrative, they got what they wanted a crisis that they could pin on Trump. After May, everything that happened was because of Dem Governors and the media.
 

bourbon n blues

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You would have a point IF, after May he was still calling for lockdowns. The original "stimulus" was needed, the problem was Dem run States stayed closed way to long(on purpose). For all the bashing Trump took for Covid---he listened to the "experts" at the beginning and probably should have ran with his gut. That's what happens when you have a one party media that controls the narrative, they got what they wanted a crisis that they could pin on Trump. After May, everything that happened was because of Dem Governors and the media.
Bingo
 
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psu skp

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You would have a point IF, after May he was still calling for lockdowns. The original "stimulus" was needed, the problem was Dem run States stayed closed way to long(on purpose). For all the bashing Trump took for Covid---he listened to the "experts" at the beginning and probably should have ran with his gut. That's what happens when you have a one party media that controls the narrative, they got what they wanted a crisis that they could pin on Trump. After May, everything that happened was because of Dem Governors and the media.
And where I live in Northern Virginia we still have idiots walking around outside and in their cars wearing cloth masks. These are the same simpletons who probably bash Trump for taking this seriously back in 2020 before we knew what we know now about this "pandemic".
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

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You would have a point IF, after May he was still calling for lockdowns. The original "stimulus" was needed, the problem was Dem run States stayed closed way to long(on purpose). For all the bashing Trump took for Covid---he listened to the "experts" at the beginning and probably should have ran with his gut. That's what happens when you have a one party media that controls the narrative, they got what they wanted a crisis that they could pin on Trump. After May, everything that happened was because of Dem Governors and the media.

That's exactly right. So then you have people like @NJPSU who will overlap that period with Trump being in office and blame Trump for what the Deep State and Democratic Governors concocted.

This is the disingenuous stuff that tends to swallow up shallow-thinking people....and they vote. The media preys on this.
 

junior1

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I expected a Biden presidency to be unspectacular. In fact, I expected it to be pretty bad. That's why I couldn't vote for him.

I honestly pinched my nose and tried to vote for Trump. Couldn't do that either. Threw my vote away because I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night voting for either one, and figured we were looking at a bad next four years with either choice.

Holy f*cking sh*t though! I never thought this was possible. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I should have voted for Trump. I still think Trump is literal scum of the Earth, and honestly his hands are dirty from this mess too - But FFS Biden!?

We're going to be feeling the repercussions of this mess for generations. Many generations. This isn't just a point-in-time recession that we recover from and look back and think, "well that sucked - glad it's over." Massive inflation crushing the poor and middle class - and even many that would be considered "upper class" -- And the only way to stop this bleeding is by tanking the economy into recession.

What is frightening is that our ship is just starting to scrape the iceberg. Find something to grab on to that might float, because this ship is going down - And it's going to sink like a rock.

The wealth transfer over the next 10 years is going to be s

No doubt. I have been pointing that out for a long while. That said, I still didn't think it would be this bad. I mean, have you been grocery shopping lately? You can't walk out of there < $100 and missing several items on your list because they can't fill the shelves....
We may be at the beginning of empty shelves..diesel fuel price is at an all time high and unless there is a decline soon some small trucking companies may go under. Remember we already have a shortage of truckers and a very, very large portion of our goods move by truck. Guy on tv today said if prices go much higher farmers won't be able to afford to ship their goods and many of the small truckers would likely have to shut down.
I have a hard time seeing how we get out of this...can't increase supply and can't decrease demand.
 

BoulderFish

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Not sure you can lay all this at Trump's feet. He was listening to all the so-called experts who were all advising him to shut things down to "stop the spread". It's easy to play Monday morning QB, but all I remember from 2020 was Trump being ripped mercilessly for not doing ENOUGH... of actually being responsible for killing thousands of people with his Administration's inaction.

And now all we hear is it's Trump's fault for his role in shutting down the economy in reaction to "the greatest public health crisis in history". So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. When faced with such a choice, good leaders err on the side a prudence and follow the advise of public health officials rather than what will be best for your short-term political prospects. And that's what Trump did.

I get that he would have taken a lot of heat, politically.

But you know what? If you're going to ask people to vote you as the leader of their country/state/city/county/whatever - You're asking them to put their trust in you to do what is right, regardless of political pressure.

So, when the people elect you to that position and you're faced with a tough decision, IMO the only obligation you have is to be right.

You can take the more politically expedient path. It's your decision. But that doesn't mean you get to use "but politics!" as an excuse if/when you're wrong.
 
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m.knox

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Not sure you can lay all this at Trump's feet. He was listening to all the so-called experts who were all advising him to shut things down to "stop the spread". It's easy to play Monday morning QB, but all I remember from 2020 was Trump being ripped mercilessly for not doing ENOUGH... of actually being responsible for killing thousands of people with his Administration's inaction.

And now all we hear is it's Trump's fault for his role in shutting down the economy in reaction to "the greatest public health crisis in history". So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. When faced with such a choice, good leaders err on the side a prudence and follow the advise of public health officials rather than what will be best for your short-term political prospects. And that's what Trump did.

Employed Americans.....

united-states-employed-persons.png


According to this graph, ~2.5 MM American got laid off in a relatively short period of time. Some help was warranted. If I had this in spreadsheet form, we could easily go back and look at the $ value of the white part of the graph (job losses).

I'm guessing it is only 50% of the original CARES ACT.
 
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bourbon n blues

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I get that he would have taken a lot of heat, politically.

But you know what? If you're going to ask people to vote you as the leader of their country/state/city/county/whatever - You're asking them to put their trust in you to do what is right, regardless of political pressure.

So, when the people elect you to that position and you're faced with a tough decision, IMO the only obligation you have is to be right.

You can take the more politically expedient path. It's your decision. But that doesn't mean you get to use "but politics!" as an excuse if/when you're wrong.
True , but let’s say he fought even harder, where would we be now? Do you believe the media handled this honestly ? Do you believe the Democrats in those states did the right thing?
Trump did not want things locked down the way some places did as long as they did . You know this. That’s on the governors ,
 

psu skp

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I get that he would have taken a lot of heat, politically.

But you know what? If you're going to ask people to vote you as the leader of their country/state/city/county/whatever - You're asking them to put their trust in you to do what is right, regardless of political pressure.

So, when the people elect you to that position and you're faced with a tough decision, IMO the only obligation you have is to be right.

You can take the more politically expedient path. It's your decision. But that doesn't mean you get to use "but politics!" as an excuse if/when you're wrong.
My point is that he would have taken heat no matter what he did. I truly think he felt he was doing the right thing for the American people in taking this "health crisis" seriously. It was NOT in his political best interest for the economy--which was going gangbusters--to be shut down, but when all of the so-called medical experts agree that this is a deadly virus and we need social-distancing and all that stuff, the President needs to listen.

Next time we'll know better, but like I said, it's easy to play Monday morning QB.
 
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WPTLION

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True , but let’s say he fought even harder, where would we be now? Do you believe the media handled this honestly ? Do you believe the Democrats in those states did the right thing?
Trump did not want things locked down the way some places did as long as they did . You know this. That’s on the governors ,
Right, remember they said you don't have the power to make us open up. Trump did the right thing to get a handle on it. After May this became a crisis the Dems and the Media wouldn't let go to waste.

Here's a better question for you---How much worse would things have been if Hillary or Biden were President in February of 2020?

If you're honest, you will now understand just how GREAT Trump was during Covid. Remember when one of Obamas main Medical advisors said we need 18 months of lockdowns?
 

TN Lion

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Well, he doesnt send out mean tweets. The 40-something loser moms are happy.
Are they happy or are they now regretting their vote? I believe they are happy. Those women value style over substance and really has been their mindset all of their lives. My ex-wife is a perfect example of this kind of misguided thought process. And they will never ever admit they are wrong, stewing in their stubborness.
 

LionDeNittany

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I expected a Biden presidency to be unspectacular. In fact, I expected it to be pretty bad. That's why I couldn't vote for him.

I honestly pinched my nose and tried to vote for Trump. Couldn't do that either. Threw my vote away because I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night voting for either one, and figured we were looking at a bad next four years with either choice.

Holy f*cking sh*t though! I never thought this was possible. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I should have voted for Trump. I still think Trump is literal scum of the Earth, and honestly his hands are dirty from this mess too - But FFS Biden!?

We're going to be feeling the repercussions of this mess for generations. Many generations. This isn't just a point-in-time recession that we recover from and look back and think, "well that sucked - glad it's over." Massive inflation crushing the poor and middle class - and even many that would be considered "upper class" -- And the only way to stop this bleeding is by tanking the economy into recession.

What is frightening is that our ship is just starting to scrape the iceberg. Find something to grab on to that might float, because this ship is going down - And it's going to sink like a rock.

The wealth transfer over the next 10 years is going to be spectacular.

I didn't think it would be this bad until he canceled Keystone XL.

That was a clear cut sign that he was putting feels over needs.

LdN
 

LionDeNittany

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Not sure you can lay all this at Trump's feet. He was listening to all the so-called experts who were all advising him to shut things down to "stop the spread". It's easy to play Monday morning QB, but all I remember from 2020 was Trump being ripped mercilessly for not doing ENOUGH... of actually being responsible for killing thousands of people with his Administration's inaction.

And now all we hear is it's Trump's fault for his role in shutting down the economy in reaction to "the greatest public health crisis in history". So it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. When faced with such a choice, good leaders err on the side a prudence and follow the advise of public health officials rather than what will be best for your short-term political prospects. And that's what Trump did.

This is why the board jester calls DeSantis. DeathSantis. Because he reopened Florida.

Democrats have a short memory.

LdN
 

LionDeNittany

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He said he was going to do that and since I believe he’s too stupid to think of this on his own I thought it would get like this.

Saying you're going to do something is what all politicians do.

Republicans said they would fund the wall. They didn't.

Democrats said they are there to help the little guy. They arent.

But actually doing it is different. He immediately put 1000s of people out of work and decreased supply simply because he felt like it.

LdN
 
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bourbon n blues

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Saying you're going to do something is what all politicians do.

Republicans said they would fund the wall. They didn't.

Democrats said they are there to help the little guy. They arent.

But actually doing it is different. He immediately put 1000s of people out of work and decreased supply simply because he felt like it.

LdN
But he had the power to do that, I get what you’re saying but again we have an idiot and he had the ability .
 
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bdgan

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Absolute dumpster fire in every way possible.
Homeland Security is good. Whoops, open border.

Transportation us good. Whoops, supply chain.

Energy is good. Whoops, dependent on other countries and prices doubled.

Treasury is good. Whoops, 40 year high inflation isn't transitory.

Education is good. Whoops, elementary kids giving dollar bills to drag queens while proficiency declines.

Defense is good. Whoops, botched Afghanistan withdrawal, NK firing missiles, Iran nuclear weapons, Ukraine war, Taiwan threatened.

On second thought, NOTHING IS GOOD. America doesn't win anymore.
 

WeR0206

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This ^^^. I knew from day 1 he'd be a disaster b/c his family is beyond compromised by the CCP, WEF goons, and many other groups. All aspects of our society have been infiltrated by deep state/CCP/WEF bad actors. He's merely being used as a front man (with an incompetence/dementia cover story) for their plans to destroy America and rot it from the inside out. Then the WEF goons can install their one world govt where they will be in charge....we'll all own nothing and love it....how nice!


f58H7zFQpoQk.jpeg
 
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BoulderFish

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True , but let’s say he fought even harder, where would we be now? Do you believe the media handled this honestly ? Do you believe the Democrats in those states did the right thing?

I can't say where we would be now, and that's frankly irrelevant to my point.

My point was that Trump, just like Biden, only has the obligation to do what's right.

Leaders don't get to use some counterfactual involving the correct decision as justification for not making the correct decision.

Trump did not want things locked down the way some places did as long as they did . You know this. That’s on the governors ,

Yeah, I believe that. But that gets him no points from me.

Even though he met with other top scientists (epidemiologists, infectious disease scientists, etc.) that we know explained the science to him - explained to him how his current pandemic response team was failing - he replaced none of them. Between his pandemic response team (Fauci, Brix, et. al.) and the CDC, they constructed the since-failed, politically-based lockdown/restriction strategy/guidance that all blue states - and even most red states - followed all the way through 2020.

Would have it been tough (politically) to do the right thing? Yep. 100%. Does that absolve one from the blame and/or fallout from not doing the right thing? Not when you're the President of the United States of America (in my opinion).
 

bourbon n blues

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I can't say where we would be now, and that's frankly irrelevant to my point.

My point was that Trump, just like Biden, only has the obligation to do what's right.

Leaders don't get to use some counterfactual involving the correct decision as justification for not making the correct decision.



Yeah, I believe that. But that gets him no points from me.

Even though he met with other top scientists (epidemiologists, infectious disease scientists, etc.) that we know explained the science to him - explained to him how his current pandemic response team was failing - he replaced none of them. Between his pandemic response team (Fauci, Brix, et. al.) and the CDC, they constructed the since-failed, politically-based lockdown/restriction strategy/guidance that all blue states - and even most red states - followed all the way through 2020.

Would have it been tough (politically) to do the right thing? Yep. 100%. Does that absolve one from the blame and/or fallout from not doing the right thing? Not when you're the President of the United States of America (in my opinion).
He can’t force governors to open up their states.
 
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BoulderFish

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He can’t force governors to open up their states.

Yeah, when your own Covid Response Team and your own CDC director - all of which you continue to keep in place - are packaging up guidance indicating that states shouldn't open up, it's a tough sell asking them to open up.
 

bourbon n blues

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Yeah, when your own Covid Response Team and your own CDC director - all of which you continue to keep in place - are packaging up guidance indicating that states shouldn't open up, it's a tough sell asking them to open up.
Well Florida stayed open didn't they? It's still a state's rights thing and if you recall the Covid crazies in certain states put positive people in nursing homes.
 
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Hotshoe

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Saying you're going to do something is what all politicians do.

Republicans said they would fund the wall. They didn't.

Democrats said they are there to help the little guy. They arent.

But actually doing it is different. He immediately put 1000s of people out of work and decreased supply simply because he felt like it.

LdN
No, he and his ilk railed on this sh&t, non-stop. This Presidency is nothing but anti-Trump and damn the country. That's exactly why dolts like NJ constantly say, the only job Biden had was to beat Trump. Now, imagine how much of an ignorant lunatic one must be to say that over and over. The world could end, but Trump isn't President. These people are sick for ideology. That's all they care about.
 

NewEra 2014

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Things would have been even worse if Biden had not been stopped by Manchin and Sinema from doing some of the wingnut things he was trying to do. Imagine if Build Back Better had passed.

Biden is, and always has been, a POS. His advisors, cabinet, and congress people are filled with similar POS losers. I am actually a bit surprised things haven't gotten worse than they already are.

But the thing some folks don't realize is that the Dems want this. They want all of it. In the name of climate change, in the name of government control, etc. It is almost like they don't fear being voted out of office for some reason. They must feel confident that they can replicate the crap they pulled during the 2020 election again, with no repercussions. Republicans don't seem interested in stopping them, so why not?
 

LionDeNittany

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Things would have been even worse if Biden had not been stopped by Manchin and Sinema from doing some of the wingnut things he was trying to do. Imagine if Build Back Better had passed.

Biden is, and always has been, a POS. His advisors, cabinet, and congress people are filled with similar POS losers. I am actually a bit surprised things haven't gotten worse than they already are.

But the thing some folks don't realize is that the Dems want this. They want all of it. In the name of climate change, in the name of government control, etc. It is almost like they don't fear being voted out of office for some reason. They must feel confident that they can replicate the crap they pulled during the 2020 election again, with no repercussions. Republicans don't seem interested in stopping them, so why not?

BBB was a bridge to the midterms.

Things would have seemed rosy but then come January we would have fallen off the cliff like Wyle E Coyote.

LdN
 
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DandyDonII

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I didn't vote for Trump or Biden, so my conscience feels clear....I didn't expect the Biden presidency to be this bad. Joe was obviously losing it before the election, however, I thought the Clinton portion of the DNC would control him, not the far left, whoops. Manchin and Sinema should probably have holiday named after them.
 

bourbon n blues

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I didn't vote for Trump or Biden, so my conscience feels clear....I didn't expect the Biden presidency to be this bad. Joe was obviously losing it before the election, however, I thought the Clinton portion of the DNC would control him, not the far left, whoops. Manchin and Sinema should probably have holiday named after them.
Especially since you live in California, your vote for Trump wouldn’t really amounted to much.