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Hodge Trophy vote

Zain punishing the field. Voters threatened with broken arms taken out of their sockets if they don't vote for the Train.
 
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Had Nickal not had that one blip with Martin at the B1Gs they probably add him as a fifth candidate and it's a much harder-to-predict vote.

I think Dean Heil has an argument that he belongs on the list too; he had far scarier moments than any of the four, and didn't bonus anyone even close to being ranked (I think), but going undefeated at least usually gets your name in the running. In the last few years they've named the four candidates but I remember in prior years they didn't name anyone, and there'd be a list of all the voter-getters.
 
tikk10 said:
Had Nickal not had that one blip with Martin at the B1Gs they probably add him as a fifth candidate and it's a much harder-to-predict vote.

I think Dean Heil has an argument that he belongs on the list too; he had far scarier moments than any of the four, and didn't bonus anyone even close to being ranked (I think), but going undefeated at least usually gets your name in the running. In the last few years they've named the four candidates but I remember in prior years they didn't name anyone, and there'd be a list of all the voter-getters.
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As the wrestling nation watched Heil being pinned twice by Jimmy in the National Duals they might be suspect in rating him the best in the land when compared to Snyder, Zain, Jason, Cox, et. al. Heil is lucky to be discussed at all even though he carried an "undefeated" tag it is not deserved and he lost one match clearly. Losing one is enough to keep you out of the consideration unless you wrestled lights out at the NCAA champs which he did not.

P.S. Kyle Snyder is classy.
 
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Carl Spackler said:
As the wrestling nation watched Heil being pinned twice by Jimmy in the National Duals they might be suspect in rating him the best in the land when compared to Snyder, Zain, Jason, Cox, et. al. Heil is lucky to be discussed at all even though he carried an "undefeated" tag it is not deserved and he lost one match clearly. Losing one is enough to keep you out of the consideration unless you wrestled lights out at the NCAA champs which he did not.
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Everyone vote and then put in your e-mail so vote goes through. Lets get Zain up to 100 %...At 72 % now....
 
tikk10 said:
Had Nickal not had that one blip with Martin at the B1Gs they probably add him as a fifth candidate and it's a much harder-to-predict vote.

I think Dean Heil has an argument that he belongs on the list too; he had far scarier moments than any of the four, and didn't bonus anyone even close to being ranked (I think), but going undefeated at least usually gets your name in the running. In the last few years they've named the four candidates but I remember in prior years they didn't name anyone, and there'd be a list of all the voter-getters.
Click to expand...

Jimmy pinned him :)
 
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Ja1339 said:
Jimmy pinned him :)
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Yeah, I didn't mean to conjure up the ghost of that dead horse because I'm sure it wasn't a factor in Win Magazine's decision to not name him a candidate. My point was merely that if you finish the season undefeated you're usually at least in the conversation out of respect for that record. Plenty of obvious factors render him actually winning moot.

Maybe a better question is why Win Magazine gets to decide anything when Win Magazine seems to exert next to zero influence over wrestling discussion with the exception of the yearly Hodge voting. Their preseason rankings are uniquely uninformed, their website is a disordered mess, and they seem wholly unaware of social media. No one ever says, "Did you read that piece at Win Magazine? Really made you think, huh."
 
tikk10 said:
Had Nickal not had that one blip with Martin at the B1Gs they probably add him as a fifth candidate and it's a much harder-to-predict vote.

I think Dean Heil has an argument that he belongs on the list too; he had far scarier moments than any of the four, and didn't bonus anyone even close to being ranked (I think), but going undefeated at least usually gets your name in the running. In the last few years they've named the four candidates but I remember in prior years they didn't name anyone, and there'd be a list of all the voter-getters.
Click to expand...

Could not disagree more. Criteria 2 and 3 are number of pins and dominance on the mat. Heil is severely lacking in both those categories. He is not even close to the other wrestlers on that board, IMO.
 
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NittanyChris said:
Could not disagree more. Criteria 2 and 3 are number of pins and dominance on the mat. Heil is severely lacking in both those categories. He is not even close to the other wrestlers on that board, IMO.
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Again, not suggesting he's a legit candidate to win, and he's very clearly behind the four named, but when has an undefeated wrestler ever not at least been mentioned as a candidate? I think it's only happened once where someone with a loss beat out an undefeated wrestler for the Hodge. Finishing undefeated is pretty obviously an implicit criteria, else Bo would be a finalist and not Cox, who overall had the less impressive, albeit unblemished, season.
 
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tikk10 said:
Again, not suggesting he's a legit candidate to win, and he's very clearly behind the four named, but when has an undefeated wrestler ever not at least been mentioned as a candidate? I think it's only happened once where someone with a loss beat out an undefeated wrestler for the Hodge. Finishing undefeated is pretty obviously an implicit criteria, else Bo would be a finalist and not Cox, who overall had the less impressive, albeit unblemished, season.
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Which is worse -- not being listed, or getting 3-2% of the vote?
 
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tikk10 said:
Again, not suggesting he's a legit candidate to win, and he's very clearly behind the four named, but when has an undefeated wrestler ever not at least been mentioned as a candidate? I think it's only happened once where someone with a loss beat out an undefeated wrestler for the Hodge. Finishing undefeated is pretty obviously an implicit criteria, else Bo would be a finalist and not Cox, who overall had the less impressive, albeit unblemished, season.
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I concur. It's pretty unusual.

While I don't think Heil would get any votes from the media and former Hodge winners, and probably not a lot of votes from wrestling fans, it's kind of surprising that he's not even in the vote. I thought WIN usually included all those with undefeated seasons in the voting. (Speaking of which, there were 10 such wrestlers entering NCAAs. Funny how Nationals has a way of putting a blemish on some of the undefeated wrestlers.)
 
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James P. Whitters III said:
Rethordfords the name
his folks named him Zain
by any other name
the result is still pain
he fires off attacks
always hunting for backs
strong as a horse
irresistible force
you can't hope to win
just avoid the pin
there is no way to dodge
just give him his Hodge!
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Rosea are red
Violets are blue
Tom Ryan's an ass
And the Brands are too
 
I think there are four very deserving Hodge candidates this year and I see only one possible way to settle this:

Give out two Hodges this year. Zain and Nolf wrestle for one, Cox and Snyder for the other. Pay-per-view event.
 
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Tom McAndrew said:
I concur. It's pretty unusual.

While I don't think Heil would get any votes from the media and former Hodge winners, and probably not a lot of votes from wrestling fans, it's kind of surprising that he's not even in the vote. I thought WIN usually included all those with undefeated seasons in the voting. (Speaking of which, there were 10 such wrestlers entering NCAAs. Funny how Nationals has a way of putting a blemish on some of the undefeated wrestlers.)
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Here's the thing, each "voter" gets 4 votes, and they're the voter's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Place. Heil would most certainly get votes, but doubt if any (or many, since some of the voters are Okie St guys) are 1st Place votes.
 
Ha -
Guess I cast the 10,000th vote for Zain.
Jason is another fantastic candidate.

The deadline for your vote is this Friday, March 24, at 5:00 pm CST.

#PSUwr nation! Penn State w/ two Hodge Finalists! Make your voice heard and VOTE!

https://t.co/e2l0nFrCFK ​

Thank you for submitting your fan vote for the 2017 WIN Magazine/Culture House Dan Hodge Trophy, presented by ASICS.

Who should win the 2017 Hodge Trophy?

J'den Cox, Missouri
19%
3037

Jason Nolf, Penn State
8%
1209

Zain Retherford, Penn State
64%
10000

Kyle Snyder, Ohio State
9%
1447
​
 
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Latest vote tally below. Zain still leads but it looks like a late push from the Cox/Missouri bloc.

J'den Cox - 35% - 7,540 votes
Jason Nolf - 6% - 1,336 votes
Zain Retherford - 52% - 11,352 votes
Kyle Snyder - 7% - 1,618 votes
 
ptomaselli said:
Latest vote tally below. Zain still leads but it looks like a late push from the Cox/Missouri bloc.

J'den Cox - 35% - 7,540 votes
Jason Nolf - 6% - 1,336 votes
Zain Retherford - 52% - 11,352 votes
Kyle Snyder - 7% - 1,618 votes
Click to expand...

So about 10 minutes after you posted that, I voted. And after I voted it showed me the totals, which were ... the same as you posted. I wonder if there is some type of delay between a vote and it being posted as recorded.
 
Tom McAndrew said:
So about 10 minutes after you posted that, I voted. And after I voted it showed me the totals, which were ... the same as you posted. I wonder if there is some type of delay between a vote and it being posted as recorded.
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Everyone VOTE for Zain...It's the last day and evening !!!!
 
Tom McAndrew said:
So about 10 minutes after you posted that, I voted. And after I voted it showed me the totals, which were ... the same as you posted. I wonder if there is some type of delay between a vote and it being posted as recorded.
Click to expand...

I just voted again with a new email I just registered (just in case). Same numbers. I wonder if they shut down?
 
Not sure I see the argument for Cox over Zain, unless you go with sentiment (Cox is a senior) or an unlisted criteria (Cox is a bronze medalist). If you argue that Cox was more dominant because Zain had two close matches, well, so did Cox, and Zain bonused at a higher rate. Further, Zain "avenged" his SV decision against Sorensen by mauling him in the NCAA semis.

Criteria by criteria, I have it:
1. A wrestler’s record: 28-0 vs 28-0; Wash
2. Number of pins: 17 vs 6; Zain by a lot
3. Dominance on the mat: Bonus 89% vs 67%; Zain by a lot
4. Quality of competition: Wash
5. Past credentials: 5-1-1 vs 1-5-1-1; Cox
6. Sportsmanship/citizenship: Wash
7. Heart: Wash

First four criteria are considered "primary."
 
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