Pretty awesome...Different game though. In 1965 Buttle wasn't defending offenses ran by Drew Brees.
Here's my all-time Penn State Defense:
- Thread starter Mr. Potter
- Start date
Greg Buttle 1973 - 1975
Greg Buttle was one of the most colorful players to ever wear the Blue and White. His jovial nature often drew the ire of a then young Joe Paterno. His junior and senior year statistics are simply mind blowing. 165 tackles as a junior and 140 tackles as a senior. Again, he didn't have the benefit of 12 regular season games or even playing as a freshman back then. Buttle still holds the single season tackle record as well as the record for tackles in a single game (24). His 343 career tackles were a school record until it was passed by Paul Posluszny in 2006. Buttle was honored as a consensus All American in 1975. During his playing career Penn State only lost five games and went undefeated in 1973.
In 2001 he was awarded the Silver Anniversary Butkus Award for the 1975 season.
After college Buttle played nine seasons for the New York Jets in the NFL and is a member of their All Time Jets team.
Amos started at corner, transitioned to Safety.
Neal Smith was a Safety his entire career. (There was a Mike Smith that concurrently played CB for PSU.)
I forget some of the particulars from those teams of the 60's but didn't Onkotz return punts too. I remember he was a brutal tackler and quick. A great player.
Onkotz was an outstanding punt returner, certainly ranks easily in the all-time top five in PSU history.
I must admit........2x First Team All-America selections, 1x Butkus Award, 1x Bednarik Award, 1x Lambert Award, #9 in the Heisman voting, and 3x NFL pro bowls.......
That's remarkable for a "bust" who was "no better than average".
Because if that's "average", there might be only a few "above average" LBs in the history of the sport.
Well, playing "better than he was" probably would have made him one of the greatest defenders in CFB history.
Not saying that he played to his 100% potential. But even his 80% solution -- or whatever it was -- made him an absolute game-changer like few LBs college football has seen in decades.
Onkotz started for three years (freshmen were not allowed to play)- averaged 95 tackles per season, holds to this day the record for Penn State LB ints at 11 (three were pick 6s) He also was a leader on two undefeated teams.
That’s great...but offenses were much different during that time buddy. Even in 1999 offenses were evolving as pass first/run second. 20 tackles for loss as an LB is something I would sign up for in 1999 and today
Just too many LBs to pick this spot.
IMO part of the reason PSU became LBU was that our Lbs did well in the pros because they
were better at pass coverage than those from many programs, who typically played larger guys at
Lb and were more focused on stopping the run. We had one of those back in 69 named Jim
Kates. But our other Lbs were usually a littler smaller, quicker and were relied on more to play
pass coverage, which served them well when they got to the pros.
If you are talking about overall Lbs who could play the run and the pass equally, it would be hard
to go wrong with Ham, Onkotz and Conlan. Those guys would excel in any era.
Gun to my head, these would be my picks.
John Skorupan, one of our best under-sung guys ever was in that same category. Btw...it was
Skorupan, together with Bruce Bannon, who showed how to defend the TX option.
It takes a guy like Ham to keep Skorupan on the bench.
BUT..tho I didnt get to see so much of Greg Buttle, he had to be one of quintessential run-
stuffing MLBs. Simply can’t leave him off our all-time team. Since we played with 4LBs back in
the day (which included Kates), I would add Buttle as my 4th LB.
Then there is someone like Lavar. I also think he has had a bit of a bum rap from an irritated comment from Joe.
Do we want a LB on the all-time team that can blitz?
Anyone can blitz if no one picks them up and they get to come in untouched.
Lavar was one the few who had real “shock” as Joe called it.
He could blow by blockers or run thru them.
I’m keeping Lavar on my all-time team as a hybrid LB/DE/something.
After his career is done, Micah might share that spot with Lavar.
But hey...nowadays we rotate and play 5-6 guys, don’t we?
And as always we favor the guys we have seen personally.
So for me, the more recent guys, fairly or not, make up the second team.Guys like Bowman, Lee, probably Poz, Mike Hull (when healthy for one season) all were good/great against both pass and run. Others I’m sure also could be considered similarly..Andre Collins etc Actually the more I think about it, a healthy Hull might have been the best all-around LB in a long, long time.
IMO part of the reason PSU became LBU was that our Lbs did well in the pros because they
were better at pass coverage than those from many programs, who typically played larger guys at
Lb and were more focused on stopping the run. We had one of those back in 69 named Jim
Kates. But our other Lbs were usually a littler smaller, quicker and were relied on more to play
pass coverage, which served them well when they got to the pros.
If you are talking about overall Lbs who could play the run and the pass equally, it would be hard
to go wrong with Ham, Onkotz and Conlan. Those guys would excel in any era.
Gun to my head, these would be my picks.
John Skorupan, one of our best under-sung guys ever was in that same category. Btw...it was
Skorupan, together with Bruce Bannon, who showed how to defend the TX option.
It takes a guy like Ham to keep Skorupan on the bench.
BUT..tho I didnt get to see so much of Greg Buttle, he had to be one of quintessential run-
stuffing MLBs. Simply can’t leave him off our all-time team. Since we played with 4LBs back in
the day (which included Kates), I would add Buttle as my 4th LB.
Then there is someone like Lavar. I also think he has had a bit of a bum rap from an irritated comment from Joe.
Do we want a LB on the all-time team that can blitz?
Anyone can blitz if no one picks them up and they get to come in untouched.
Lavar was one the few who had real “shock” as Joe called it.
He could blow by blockers or run thru them.
I’m keeping Lavar on my all-time team as a hybrid LB/DE/something.
After his career is done, Micah might share that spot with Lavar.
But hey...nowadays we rotate and play 5-6 guys, don’t we?
And as always we favor the guys we have seen personally.
So for me, the more recent guys, fairly or not, make up the second team.Guys like Bowman, Lee, probably Poz, Mike Hull (when healthy for one season) all were good/great against both pass and run. Others I’m sure also could be considered similarly..Andre Collins etc Actually the more I think about it, a healthy Hull might have been the best all-around LB in a long, long time.
Agree with all this praise of #35 who played INSIDE linebacker and then returned punts, as well.
One game that might best exemplify the greatness of Onkota and why I still rank him as #1 all-time came in 1967 when he was only a sophomore (freshmen were not eligible then).
NC State came into Beaver Stadium in week 8 undefeated and ranked #3 in the nation. Onkotz intercepted a pass (yes, Micah, it can be dome by an inside LB
) and returned it something like 70 yards for a touchdown, providing the winning points in a 13-8 upset win).Late in the game, the Wolfback faced a 4th-and-goal from the 1. NC State's Barchuk ran for it ... "did he get it? Nooooooo." Onkotz and fellow ILB Jim Kates, also just a sophomore, stuffed him at the LOS.
Denny Onkotz did it all: stuffed the run, intercepted the pass, returned the punt ... and gave great replies to the press. When asked after the 1970 Orange Bowl how long Penn State's defense could have held Missouri's powerful offense without a touchdown, Denny simply replied in 1 word -- "Forever."
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Great points, and your last point is a good one.......I'd be curious to hear various people's ages alongside their picks, because I wonder how age/experience influences one's choices.
I'm in my 30s, so I've never seen anybody older than Andre Collins. At least not at the time they played at Penn State (Youtube is my friend). I also came of age as a PSU fan in the mid-90s, so guys like Lavar and Brandon Short are more memorable to me than guys from other eras.
With that, I'd take Lavar, Poz, and either Conlan or Ham. I lean toward Conlan in part because of his heroics during the title game in '86. I realize that's only one game, but a pair of picks -- to including one that set up the go-ahead TD -- against the Heisman winner and the seemingly unstoppable Miami Hurricanes is a pretty special signature moment.
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Ray Isom set the tone in the Fiesta Bowl that scared the Miami receivers from the start and led to the interceptions and win.
Before my time but it just amazing to think a linebacker was returning punts and really good at it
We've never had a combinaton like Millen & Clark. I'd put them ahead of Brown & Hali on the DL.
Onkontz needs to be in there.
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Well said, and valid points, NI. Conlan's 2 interceptions were fantastic, the latter one setting up Dozier's winning TD run.
But let me take you back to the 1970 Orange Bowl where Penn State's defense had to face that season's most explosive offense: Big 8 Champion (yes, the same conference that boasted Nebraska and Oklahoma) Missouri. The Tigeras were a juggernaut in 1969 under Dan Devine (who later coached at Notre Dame).
During the season, the Tigers mauled annually over-hyped Mighigan 40-17 ... in Ann. Arbor! Missouri alkso routed big bad Oklahoma, stopped Nebraska cold, and rouyed another Big Ten foe in Illinois.
Then they faced the Penn State defense. Dennis Onkotz, like Conlan vs Miami, intercepted 2 passes himself, while the other defenders added 5 more INTs. Penn State held Missouri without a touchdown, allowing 2 FGs aided by a long punt return and a turnover.
Some players transcend their era. I think it's fair to say players like Dick Butkus, Bob Lilly, or Jim Brown deserve acclaim as "all-time greats" just as IMO, stars like Mike Reid and Dennis Onkotz do at the collegiate level.
Criminal that the '69 team was denied the title that year.
As much as we talk about that '94 offense, that '69 defense was in that same echelon of "special".
How about you just give me the entire defense from that '69 team, the entire '94 offense, and call it a day re: the all-time team.
Thank you for correcting me. I deserve to slink back under my rock now.
How could I have made an error about a game I thought I remembered so fondly and so well?
He was better than everybody else in college. Wasn't he the 1st LB taken in the draft and made multiple pro bowls. This undisciplined nonsense is simply untrue. He didn't play early because he was undisciplined according to Joe. That was Joe doing what Joe does to keep a hot shot kid from getting a big head. By the time he left he was a complete LB. Did he make aggressive mistakes? Sure did but he made up for it in multiple ways.
Good point. '68 was my freshman year so I'm an olde phart. So I've watched the following LBs either in person or on TV. These are the 1st team all-Americans. Tell me how in the world we're supposed to pick only 3 or 4 of these guys as the best ever?
- Denny Onkotz
- Jack Ham
- John Skorupan
- Ed O'Neill
- Greg Buttle
- Kurt Allerman
- Shane Conlan
- Andre Collins
- Lavar Arrington
- Brandon Short
- Paul Posluszny
- Dan Connor
- Michael Mauti
- Some kid named Parsons who hasn't even reached his peak
- Lance Mehl
- Chet Parlavecchio
- Scott Radecic
- Navorro Bowman
- Mike Hull
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Good point. '68 was my freshman year so I'm an olde phart. So I've watched the following LBs either in person or on TV. These are the 1st team all-Americans. Tell me how in the world we're supposed to pick only 2 or 4 of these guys as the best ever?
How about these guys who were "only" 2nd team AA?
- Denny Onkotz
- Jack Ham
- John Skorupan
- Ed O'Neill
- Greg Buttle
- Kurt Allerman
- Shane Conlan
- Andre Collins
- Lavar Arrington
- Brandon Short
- Paul Posluszny
- Dan Connor
- Michael Mauti
- Some kid named Parsons who hasn't even reached his peak
Believe it or not, Sean Lee wasn't even 1st team all-Big 10.
- Lance Mehl
- Chet Parlavecchio
- Scott Radecic
- Navorro Bowman
- Mike Hull
It's like picking the best QB from Oklahoma or a pair of RBs from USC. They have guys who their fans have forgotten about that would be the GOAT at most other schools.
Dan Connor, for instance. I don't think anybody has mentioned him in this thread as being on their first team. Yet the dude was a 1st team All American and Bednarik winner. He'd be the greatest LB in school history at 90% of FBS schools. In my estimation, he's maybe the 8th or 9th best at Penn State.
I never said he was out of place often...perhaps you meant to respond to another post? I’m all in for LA being on the list.
See, there it is - never listened to his coaches...a lone wolf and a me-first player. Someone said it and it stuck. And yet he won the Butkus and was a 3 time pro-bowler...how’d those happen? On what planet does that make him a “bust”?!!?
Injuries shortened his pro career, but when he was healthy, he was among a small handful of the very best LBers to play at Penn State, and absolutely the best in the last quarter century.
Oh I agree. Never forgot the time when he literally ran sideways and grabbed a RB by the collar and ripped him down as a true freshman (horse collars then still legal). Looked at my buddy with whom I have had season tickets with since 1978 and said holy you know what did you see that!
Good point. '68 was my freshman year so I'm an olde phart. So I've watched the following LBs either in person or on TV. These are the 1st team all-Americans. Tell me how in the world we're supposed to pick only 2 or 4 of these guys as the best ever?
How about these guys who were "only" 2nd team AA?
- Denny Onkotz
- Jack Ham
- John Skorupan
- Ed O'Neill
- Greg Buttle
- Kurt Allerman
- Shane Conlan
- Andre Collins
- Lavar Arrington
- Brandon Short
- Paul Posluszny
- Dan Connor
- Michael Mauti
- Some kid named Parsons who hasn't even reached his peak
Believe it or not, Sean Lee wasn't even 1st team all-Big 10.
- Lance Mehl
- Chet Parlavecchio
- Scott Radecic
- Navorro Bowman
- Mike Hull
Sean has seemingly ALWAYS had a CFB & NFL injury bug. When healthy he’s as good as they come.
Love Shane but absolutely not. Poz was maybe the best position LB I have ever seen in college. Fact: he did not miss a tackle for 2 straight years. Think about that.
As an aside, I am not sure there is any other team in college football that could have a discussion about any position quite like PSU fans can have about LBs. We are talking about elite players over the last 50 years. Really cannot compare generations fairly but what an amazing list when you step back and think about how long this has gone on, through how many different offensive and defensive schemes. Amazing
The Baltimore Sun (IIRC) did a feature on College football back in the mid-seventies. They indicated that the best record in college ball belonged to Penn State and Michigan, at that time and since the Paterno had begun. The article said the only statistic in which they led the country was turnover margin. Almost neck and neck. Those who remember 1968 and 1969 remember all of the interceptions and fumble recoveries. The defense was a bend but don't break variety.
At the LB position? It's not even close. Sure, Alabama has had a few Butkus winners lately, and they feature Derrick Thomas. But we've had First Team AA LBs in how many different decades, now? Every decade since and including the 60s.
I'd say the only real parallels at other positions would be RB at USC and maybe WR at Ohio State. They've had stars for decades at that position.
Oklahoma has loaded up on QBs over the past 20 years. LSU with DBs over the past 20 years. Alabama with linemen. Wisconsin with RBs. But those traditions (except maybe Bama) don't necessarily go back 60 years.
Yes, I get that in hindsight....apologies for my preemptive post.
