Tax forms revealed...
http://www.flowrestling.org/article...s-at-nittany-lion-wrestling-club#.WX6FiITysYs
http://www.flowrestling.org/article...s-at-nittany-lion-wrestling-club#.WX6FiITysYs
Here Comes the Drama...
- Thread starter Law-Deezie
- Start date
The part I'm curious to is how a non-profit can claim to have $613k in expenses described as "skilled wrestling instructions provided at the camps, clinics, and tournaments conducted by the club", but show zero revenue in the 990 from the same events?
As for the $5.7M investment, hats off to Cael and staff as the name of the game is having a standing endowment fund to create longevity and guaranteed revenue. The real question now is Cael and staff really that much better than everyone else in the country or have they overtaken the sport by buying it? Buying it in the term of out resourcing the rest of the country and bringing the sport to a level of available revenue it hasn't seen before not in the term of insinuating misuse of funds to NCAA athletes.
Time will tell because at some point another program or multiple programs catch up in funding and it becomes a even playing field and plan on one program being there by January 2018.
As for the $5.7M investment, hats off to Cael and staff as the name of the game is having a standing endowment fund to create longevity and guaranteed revenue. The real question now is Cael and staff really that much better than everyone else in the country or have they overtaken the sport by buying it? Buying it in the term of out resourcing the rest of the country and bringing the sport to a level of available revenue it hasn't seen before not in the term of insinuating misuse of funds to NCAA athletes.
Time will tell because at some point another program or multiple programs catch up in funding and it becomes a even playing field and plan on one program being there by January 2018.
I agree on the athletes comment, but the development comment still needs to be seen. When you have 4 of the 5 top P4P ranked guys committed in this 2018 recruiting class just how much development do you think is needed?
Investment by Roy Carver in Iowa wrestling = good
Investment by big donors of other programs = bad
weak post. Even the top guys need development at the next level to win titles, and that is for both college and olympic levels.
The $5.7M number has been discussed at various times on HR. Not sure why this is news.
If you bother to be informed, you would know this point has been covered quite well. The numbers have been broken down. Penn State does more with top recruits than any other program - from an objective and statistical standpoint. Of course, I suppose you are free to ignore facts and continue in long-since refuted positions.
Old news - those tax forms were discussed in the Iowa board several months ago and helped spur on their recent financial gains.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ohio RTC land a big donor (besides the family backing their new facilities) soon - the Buckeyes certainly never suffer for resources
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ohio RTC land a big donor (besides the family backing their new facilities) soon - the Buckeyes certainly never suffer for resources
Maybe you just need to open your eyes:
Matt Brown (#73) National Champ, 2 time Finalist, 3 time AA
Frank Molinaro (40s) National Champ, 2 time finalist, 4 time AA, Olympian
Jordan Conway (NR) 2 time AA
James English (NR) 1 time AA
James Vollrath, 4th in high school, one of only 3 guys to defeat Dieringer in college, defeated numerous top 100 recruits during his career (RIP)
Gingrich, 5th in high school??, was neck in neck with top ten recruit Lawson for starting spot
The reason you don't see more of this is because Cael is recruiting so well and those guys are performing so well, lower ranked guys can't crack the lineup despite vast improvements.
Speculation has been swirling for two years and has been just that speculation, but the documentation in these tax returns without a doubt supports the speculation. When your 990 states $613k of "expenses" for camps and clinics and doesn't show any revenue line for the expense you are claiming it waves more than a red flag. Add the $700k expense under the PSWC for social gatherings, travel, etc and expect the shots to start being fired. Additionally, the combined $1.3M between the two expenses are classified as "service" based expenses which allows the money to be used as payments to NCAA athletes in return for "services" i.e.: camps.
Do you all really believe that this many top kids the last 3-4 years are coming to have F*N for 50% scholarships when they can go to the majority of other programs for free? Out of state tuition and fees alone for a non-PA resident is $32k a year with an estimated additional cost of $12k for room, board, etc. Come we will give you 50% scholarship, but you need to cover the other $22k a year its going to cost you to come to school here? There is no denying something great has been built there in a short amount of time, but I also think its fair to say how its being funded has been "creative" up to this point.
There are no clinics or camps advertised anywhere on the internet under the NLWC, but there are camps offered by the university. Again, if the camps and clinics are not being advertised or operated by the NLWC in totality the expensing classification is beyond suspect. There may be one way to clear it all up and validate the programs integrity....audited expense payments for the last three years of the club and athletes while attending PSU and post graduate. Its a chance to prove all the guys listed below and I'm sure I've missed some are okay with $60-80k of college debt because they had a lot of f*n.....
Suriano
Retheford
Nolf
Joseph
Hall
Nickel
McCutcheon
Nevills
Nick Lee
Berge
Verkleeren
Manville
Teasdale
RBY
Wittlake
Seth Nevills
Joe Lee
Beard
Not sure why this would be seen as a negative by anyone (except one certain fan base). Is there a sport around that doesn't rely on generating funding? There aren't many teams succeeding right now (in any college sport) that arent also in the top tier of donated income. College Wrestling is a "donation" driven business to get to, and stay, in the top tier. Penn State has the largest active alumni base in the world... so why wouldn't they bring in the most donated revenue? It would be more of a "wow" if they weren't first in getting donations.
And thanks for the thread... it reminded me to renew my membership for both the PSWC and NLWC.
And thanks for the thread... it reminded me to renew my membership for both the PSWC and NLWC.
Pen_s envy at the highest level. I have never seen a fan base so obsessed by another teams coaches,wrestlers, and fans. Blame Tom Brands for the programs historic decline. Blame the poor economic conditions in Iowa City. Blame anyone you want, but blaming PSU for the Hawkeyes falling off is stale at best.
Where was it criticized or questioned once about the amount of funding and support the NLWC receives??? I'm all for the level of support your club has and believe that it will ultimately raise the bar for all clubs across the country which delivers better wrestling for the USA. However what I'm questioning is if indeed the NLWC revenue is solely supporting post graduate athletes as they pursue World and Olympic Gold Medals or if its being used to subsidize costs/scholarships for the PSU collegiate team. Keep the blinders on if you want, but the filed tax forms directionally support the latter.
What's really amusing is how the 5 million donation came after 3 national championships yet is the reason for all of Penn State's success. The reality is that success lead to the large donation, not the other way around.
Hawk fans also like to block out they fact they have finished behind teams with lower revenue then them for 7 consecutive years.
What are your credentials to interpret that tax return, are you a CPA, IRS Agent or Tax Attorney?
Clearly you're not local to the Central PA region? I know of many youth that attend NLWC events year round. If you're a wrestler and don't have the money to attend YG type clubs/clinics, the NLWC is a great resource to have access to quality instruction on a budget.
Before throwing around NCAA violation accusations and calling for audits, perhaps you could bother to scroll down the thread list to see McCutcheon and Cassar are in Kansas doing a camp. Is the NLWC supposed to advertise camps across the country? Is PSU supposed to make the camps reimburse travel expenses and therefore transfer the cost to youth wrestlers' families? Is this what Iowa does?
The NCAA has limits on how much athletes can earn at a camp. PSU athletes earn more by working more camps -- take that up with Brands. Your program is being outworked and outhustled.
BTW, when Martinez works a camp in Iowa and he's clearly being recruited for the HWC ... no issue with that because shut up?
The $613k number about which you're insinuating fraud is broken down on page 10 and is pretty straightforward. You're reading the generalized mission statement literally to mean "camps and clinics" as if it was being itemized in that section. So you're either being disingenuous, or still have a few months to go before you reach black-belt CPA status.
The Hawkeye Wrestling Club's corresponding figures aren't much different--about 62% of the NLWC's expenses, about 84% of the NLWC's revenues, all which probably make sense when you look at what was going on in each during that time frame.
I actually think the story could be a small thing that snowballs into something big for the whole sport over the next decade. Lots of people knew and speculated about the NLWC situation since it went down, but now it is in B&W. There are big donors across sports that will want their school to catch up to PSU. This could create an arms race at the club level which would be a good thing because middle school and HS kids need to see there are viable after graduation options if this sport is to take off to levels we all want.
Last I checked, I didn't know that wrestling matches occurred on paper. The rankings are nice, obviously good to have your team recruiting well...since these guys have not attended an official D1 practice yet, the rankings are what they are, rankings.
Dan Gable is never coming back.
If he did, it wouldn't matter. His interview at nationals with Gable Steveson watching shows why Gable would not change Iowa's fortunes. Fun?
Admittedly, there are times in sports when you have to embrace the grind, the PSU wrestlers go through those periods. Problem is the Gable philosophy seems to embrace the grind 365 days a year. That is not fun.Embrace the grind!!!
Seriously. Iowa won a kajillion national titles and converted that into a whopping $700k?
If they merely passed the hat around CHA for one year ... 7 home duals, 10k fans per, $10 each ... that would double the HWC endowment.
Is Iowa bad at planning or are its alumni and fans cheap?
Said it before and will say it again. The brands are great coaches, BUT ...... Cael is not only a great coach but a great ceo and cody might be the best VP in D1.
Then when you compare #3s, is there a better than casey?
PSU is a finely tuned machine playing chess were others are playin checkers.
OMG Haters to the max....Ha Ha. Sorry we are a DYNASTY for years to come. Iowa BETTER start worrying about Iowa State. They are about to take over that state in wrestling. Book that for real !
Typical hawkeye dismissive comment.
Since you brought it up. The importance of coaching. Thomas Gilman and Jason Nolf.
Gilman wrestles Cruz in semis and Cruz is determined to slow the pace, basically stall his way towards the end and see if he can steal a victory. Instead of forcing the issue Gilman and his corner allow Cruz to dictate and Cruz wins.
Nebraska's Berger attempts a similar strategy against Nolf. Instead of allowing Berger to dictate a slower non involved pace Nolf just persues and attacks relentlessly. Many times surrendering position in an effort to gain a scoring opportunity.
If Gilman had been a Lion there is no doubt in my mind Gilman is a 2 time champion. If Nolf or Joesph were Hawk's they would be very good, but neither would have been capable of defeating IMar.
Hawk fans can deny the coaching skills of the Penn state staff from now until kingdom come and I don't really care. It's understood it's a defense mechanism and as long as it continues it means you are still looking up while thinking it.
The way that works is FuddyDuddy_HWC was posting from his stove, and the laws of physics cease to exist on his stove:
There may be too much credit given here, I think they're playing Tic-Tac-Toe.
