Harold Baines made the baseball HOF?

[Connorpozlee]

I never thought of Sutton as a HOFer. He won 20 games only once with very good LA Dodger teams and never struck out more than 209 in a season, striking out 200+ only five times in a long career.

He was good for a long, long time and his career numbers are HOF worthy.

Did you leave “not” out of that last sentence?
I don’t think you should in the hall without some stretch of greatness. Sustained goodness does not cut it for me. That said, obviously the standards of the hall have changed and under the Harold Baines Hall of Fame, Sutton might as well be in.

 

[Lyons212]

Check out Sutton's win (324) and strikeout (3,574) totals and tell me he doesn't belong. Steve Carlton had only five more career wins (329), and their respective career ERA's were 3.22 (Carlton) and 3.26 (Sutton). Are you gonna tell me that Lefty doesn't belong, either?

Steve Carlton is a HOFer, no doubt. He was one of those pitchers from the 70's/early 80's who was pitching against your team and knew most likely not getting a win today. He was dominate. The 70's was Seaver, Palmer, Ryan, Hunter and Carlton. Don Sutton never struck me as great.

Carlton would have had better career stats if he did not pitch for the Phillies in the early 70's when they were terrible.

To me a HOFer is a player who was dominate at their position for 7 to 10 years, one of the best players in the game. Players like Baines and Sutton to me were not those types of players.

 

[john4psu]

Did you leave “not” out of that last sentence?
I don’t think you should in the hall without some stretch of greatness. Sustained goodness does not cut it for me. That said, obviously the standards of the hall have changed and under the Harold Baines Hall of Fame, Sutton might as well be in.

I guess I give Sutton a break on the 15 wins for 20 seasons although to me that's not equal to 20 wins for 15 seasons even though both equal 300. I agree with you on sustained greatness. I don't think of Sutton as a HOFer even though he's in. I wouldn't have voted him in. It's become the Hall of the good for a long time now.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I guess I give Sutton a break on the 15 wins for 20 seasons although to me that's not equal to 20 wins for 15 seasons even though both equal 300. I agree with you on sustained greatness. I don't think of Sutton as a HOFer even though he's in. I wouldn't have voted him in. It's become the Hall of the good for a long time now.

The threshold for starters trying to get into the HOF used to be 300 wins. Bert Blyleven, who had one of the best curveballs of all time and in my opinion richly deserved to get in, had to wait awhile because he came up just short with 287 wins.

But now, with the increased use of both closers and middle relievers, and (more importantly) the ubiquity of the five man rotation, starters are not getting as many starts or decisions as they used to get. I believe 250, or even 225, will soon be the new 300. Pedro Martinez got in with 219 wins. Bartolo Colon has 233 wins, and he may well get in. Justin Verlander has 204 wins. Doubt he will get to 300, but he has a good chance of getting in. Clayton Kershaw has a number of years left, but he has only 153 wins.