ADVERTISEMENT

Got a call from a professor at half time last night regarding $ at Universities

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2001
120,645
79,571
1
who was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.

She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.

Just wondering if others are hearing the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski
I have read a few articles and spoken with a friend that is a high school college counselor. Seems that most of the elite colleges along with some others that are very selective are doing okay but that a great number that are not seen to be in that status group are having enrollment issues that are leading to budget cutting.
 
I have read a few articles and spoken with a friend that is a high school college counselor. Seems that most of the elite colleges along with some others that are very selective are doing okay but that a great number that are not seen to be in that status group are having enrollment issues that are leading to budget cutting.


I hear ditch digging is becoming a popular choice.
 
Last edited:
who was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.

She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.

Just wondering if others are hearing the same.
Hopefully she'll have the freedom to get rid of the 20% worst-performing of her group. That would probably be addition by subtraction.
 
Hopefully she'll have the freedom to get rid of the 20% worst-performing of her group. That would probably be addition by subtraction.
I think some programs will be eliminated and others won't get hurt as much. But the net effect was they were told to prepare for 20% but the details will come out later. Basically, they were told to make plans for 10%, 15% 20% and 40%. However, they may well get a call and be told their entire department is out. The insinuation is understand the other contingencies, but start to make plans for 20% (have names in mind).
 
population in college age kids have been in a slow decline for awhile, baby bust, not a surprise. Colleges have been trying to attract students by offer fancy gym, fancy student union buildings, fancy dorms, ect driving tuition to crazy levels to finance this. Sounds like some colleges have reached a tipping point driven by online classes which requires none of this fluff and the staff involved maintaining it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sullivan
It is interesting that the schools hit the hardest by this were the ones banking the most on foreign and out of state kids where they got to give the least amount of aid.

The schools with a local identity seem to be handling it a lot better as they can coalesce around their base and still get students to come.
 
population in college age kids have been in a slow decline for awhile, baby bust, not a surprise. Colleges have been trying to attract students by offer fancy gym, fancy student union buildings, fancy dorms, ect driving tuition to crazy levels to finance this. Sounds like some colleges have reached a tipping point driven by online classes which requires none of this fluff and the staff involved maintaining it.
It does seem to be significantly of their own doing. What would be smart would be to find a way to reinvent itself. Yes, traditional students and research will still be a revenue stream even if in decline but how do they adapt to an environment in which most students never step foot on campus? What other revenue streams can they create? What other uses of the campus and facilities might be possible?

I would imagine those last to innovate will die slowly on the vine. The macro trend is not strong growth in tradition university efforts. What does a university look like 20 years from now? Which ones are still there and why?

And not to simply say there is a long term problem and offer no suggestions to solve the issues, why don't we brain storm some possibilities? Throw the ideas out there even if not immediately feasible. I'll start.

What about greater partnering with industry as they are transformed to more home based employees? Could businesses with high home based employees be sought out and offered shared enhanced facilities on a campus whereby they have access for training, conferences, additional support and technical expertise?

What about catering to the growing demographic of retirees that have the money and desire to take classes, be housed on their former campus in either independent living or assisted living communities, use campus facilities, and remain engaged with their alma mater or other alumni?

I'm sure there are plenty of other possibilities of additional uses and revenue streams that could be grown to make up for traditional revenue streams and facilities no longer being as essential to the college experience. What else could make sense?
 
Last edited:
The CC that i teach online classes at has a 20% reduction in classes for spring as well as an overall 27% reduction in enrollment since last spring. Glad it’s not a full time gig! No way I’ll have a class at all and since I am retiring from my full time gig, may do so here as well.
 
I here ditch digging is becoming a popular choice.
tenor.gif
 
There was a thread on the future of big time college football before Covid hit in which I post that not only is football in danger but so is the university system itself. With the coming of online learning a substantial number of students will study remotely. Add in population decline, the massive rise in community colleges, people starting their own businesses instead of going to college. This issue was coming fast, all Covid did was accelerate it to an immediate issue.
 
Last edited:
I'll throw something in the mix, college just isn't as fun anymore. Most of us 'old timers' remember going to college as a right of passage. You went to college to get an education but at the same time, did a lot of paryting. Frat parties, apartment parties, house parties, etc....that type of 'fun' just doesn't exist in the same levels anymore do to a large crackdown by the police and huge fines being put out there now. So the lure of going off to college to go have some fun isn't what it once was.
 
Elite schools will lower their entrance requirements to keep the numbers up. This will mean Bobby and Suzy will go to the elite school rather than the next tier down. This will cause next tier down to do the same. Etc. Etc. I do believe COVID is accelerating what was going to happen down the road. I also believe this is a result of what the market will bear....or not bear. Finally colleges have been fat and happy on parents backs way too long. The time of reckoning is at hand.
 
It does seem to be significantly of their own doing. What would be smart would be to find a way to reinvent itself. Yes, traditional students and research will still be a revenue stream even if in decline but how do they adapt to an environment in which most students never step foot on campus? What other revenue streams can they create? What other uses of the campus and facilities might be possible?

I would imagine those last to innovate will die slowly on the vine. The macro trend is not strong growth in tradition university efforts. What does a university look like 20 years from now? Which ones are still there and why?

And not to simply say there is a long term problem and offer no suggestions to solve the issues, why don't we brain storm some possibilities? Throw the ideas out there even if not immediately feasible. I'll start.

What about greater partnering with industry as they are transformed to more home based employees? Could businesses with high home based employees be sought out and offered shared enhanced facilities on a campus whereby they have access for training, conferences, additional support and technical expertise?

What about catering to the growing demographic of retirees that have the money and desire to take classes, be housed on their former campus in either independent living or assisted living communities, use campus facilities, and remain engaged with their alma mater or other alumni?

I'm sure there are plenty of other possibilities of additional uses and revenue streams that could be grown to make up for traditional revenue streams and facilities no longer being as essential to the college experience. What else could make sense?

A lot of what you are talking about has been happening for over 5 years at PSU. Their World Wide Campus which caters more to graduate level work. PSU supposedly has one of the better graduate online system. As far as using the facilitates for training ect, Universities have been doing this for decades, the first one I attended was back in the 80s.
 
who was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.

She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.

Just wondering if others are hearing the same.
He/she called you at 10pm on Sunday night to chat?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sullivan
It is interesting that the schools hit the hardest by this were the ones banking the most on foreign and out of state kids where they got to give the least amount of aid.

The schools with a local identity seem to be handling it a lot better as they can coalesce around their base and still get students to come.

In which category does PSU fall?
 
Last edited:
I'll throw something in the mix, college just isn't as fun anymore. Most of us 'old timers' remember going to college as a right of passage. You went to college to get an education but at the same time, did a lot of paryting. Frat parties, apartment parties, house parties, etc....that type of 'fun' just doesn't exist in the same levels anymore do to a large crackdown by the police and huge fines being put out there now. So the lure of going off to college to go have some fun isn't what it once was.
it's not so much that it was going to have fun per se, as it was the time of your life that you had to really learn about risk/reward in all of its glory ,whether that involved alcohol, drugs, sports, hierarchical systems, or simple basic social relationships.
 
Last edited:
A lot of what you are talking about has been happening for over 5 years at PSU. Their World Wide Campus which caters more to graduate level work. PSU supposedly has one of the better graduate online system. As far as using the facilitates for training ect, Universities have been doing this for decades, the first one I attended was back in the 80s.
True and the macro trends for how businesses operate with significantly higher home based workers may create a growth opportunity for universities already doing this. I attended conferences at other universities while teaching higher ed but don't have the experience of doing so in industry.
 
I'll throw something in the mix, college just isn't as fun anymore. Most of us 'old timers' remember going to college as a right of passage. You went to college to get an education but at the same time, did a lot of paryting. Frat parties, apartment parties, house parties, etc....that type of 'fun' just doesn't exist in the same levels anymore do to a large crackdown by the police and huge fines being put out there now. So the lure of going off to college to go have some fun isn't what it once was.

IDK, my 3 kids who graduated over the past decades would tell you that you down know what you are talking about when it comes to the college experience. Maybe the Frat scene has been damped down, but that was their own fault. Apartment, house, dorm scene is still going strong. Kids seem to be drinking more hard liquor especially in the dorms than we ever drank in the 70s/80s. My kids all had mini fridges in their dorms half filled with booze/beer that the RAs were not allowed to touch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NJPSU
Wow, you've stated this as a "fact". Where's your link that references the actual data?
No hard facts, as I did say 'it seems', just anecdotal evidence from the local schools around me and the admins I know there. I know which schools have cut Salary/benefits and who has not and it follows that trend.
 
Serves them right. Higher education cost has increased by something like 2x the consumer price index, while incomes for most people have been relatively stagnant.
The other side of these cuts is the obscene increase in student loans, a plague upon the land.
imagine how much lower those loans would be if these college had kept their cost increase to no more than the consumer price index.
 
I think some programs will be eliminated and others won't get hurt as much. But the net effect was they were told to prepare for 20% but the details will come out later. Basically, they were told to make plans for 10%, 15% 20% and 40%. However, they may well get a call and be told their entire department is out. The insinuation is understand the other contingencies, but start to make plans for 20% (have names in mind).
Wouldn't it be lovely if any department that has "studies" in its title were eliminated?

With that said, I actually doubt whether any university would actually have the courage or competence to make that sort of hard choice. Across the board cuts are the coward's/poor manager's way out.
 
it's not so much that it was going to have fun per se, as it was the time of your life that you had to really learn about risk/reward in all of its glory ,whether that involved alcohol, drugs, sports, or simple basic social relationships.
And college campii were relatively safe places to make those mistakes and learn tough lessons. You could walk to and back to bars and frats instead of driving home five or ten miles drunk. You were around people the same age instead of a lot of older drunks. And people in college are mostly a less violent, less criminal mindset.

Do the stupid stuff for few years and then outgrow it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSUfiji
who was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.

She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.

Just wondering if others are hearing the same.
What is her
I refuse to believe that these types of staff reductions elsewhere will have any effect PSU leadership until a faux onion dip is served at banquets.
Actually the onion dip is primarily served at faculty meetings...banquets require something more sophisticated.
 
who was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.

She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.

Just wondering if others are hearing the same.


Tuition is up 500% the last 30 years. Make the cuts.
 
Online learning for the majority of undergrads is not great. College is just not vocational school. Students should “learn how to learn” for life. Part of higher education is understanding how to think, write, analyze and gather and understand info to make proper decisions. The quality of discourse is just not there online. Serious students taking real classes at quality schools will want to do so in person. I do see how the more vocational majors at lower level schools will move online however.

I think the best use for online higher education is for working professionals. Folks who are looking to complete things like a PM certification or Supply Management degree, or for continuous learning for folks in education, healthcare or IT (as an example). Online degrees can be very useful for some, and a borderline scam for most.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psu7113
Wouldn't it be lovely if any department that has "studies" in its title were eliminated?

With that said, I actually doubt whether any university would actually have the courage or competence to make that sort of hard choice. Across the board cuts are the coward's/poor manager's way out.
They can't make any such changes because they would be accused of one "ism" or another, and the faculty would revolt. Universities need to be managed as opposed to the current model where, for all intents and purposes, nobody's in charge. The only school that has moved in that direction is Purdue (my Ph.D. alma mater) currently run by Indiana ex-governor Mitch Daniels.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bison13 and 91Joe95
ADVERTISEMENT