Good night Mets.
- Thread starter Grant Green
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He would have taken same if he took him out even after the walk. Turns out he should not have caved to fans and Harvey lobbying ever.
My heart is broken for the Mets. Said no Phillies fan ever
I'm happy for Mike Arbuckle. He left the Phils after they hired Ruin Tamaro Sooner. Ended up now with another World Series ring.
Ryan Madson gets his second ring. Congratulations to Ryan!!!
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If I was a Mets fan I'd hang around. How often do you have the chance to see to final out of a World Series and the ensuing celebration?? Sure, it would be great if your team won but seeing the series clinched in person isn't something many people can say they've done.
Familia already had two blown saves. No guarantee no matter who is on the bump.
I think the mets have the best starting pitching by a long shot in the majors and it will only get better next year with full years from Syndergaard and matz along with the return of Zach Wheeler. You have 5 legit aces. They aren't just good but they were able to rise their games when the lights are on and that with no experience and not much time in the bigs. Really an impressive group of starters. John Smoltz said if they stay healthy with the return of Wheeler that we have never seen a rotation like this.
Middle relief and set up is an issue. Familia was to be the setup man. Mejia screwed that up. Parnell struggled year after Tommy John, Vic black was injured all year and Jerry Blevins who was their only left handed specialist kept breaking his arm. Pretty impressive to make it with that many top relievers not helping for one reason or another. Familia faltered in the 1 game but was a victim of bad defense the other games
Which leads us to where the mets struggle. Defense up the middle and the ability to manufacture runs. They have no team speed and they depend on the home run too much. They are 2 routine plays away from heading back to KC up 3-2. Too often this year it was a problem with Murphy not able to get to balls, booting balls or not able to turn critical double plays. Dilson Hererra replacing Murphy will solve a lot of the issues that plagued them at second base. They desperately need to find some team speed outside of the addition of Dilson Hererra who will probably battle teammate Stephen Matz for rookie of the year in the national league.
Add some speed, defense up the middle and middle relief. They have the $$$ and won't let this once in a lifetime rotation go to waste.
Middle relief and set up is an issue. Familia was to be the setup man. Mejia screwed that up. Parnell struggled year after Tommy John, Vic black was injured all year and Jerry Blevins who was their only left handed specialist kept breaking his arm. Pretty impressive to make it with that many top relievers not helping for one reason or another. Familia faltered in the 1 game but was a victim of bad defense the other games
Which leads us to where the mets struggle. Defense up the middle and the ability to manufacture runs. They have no team speed and they depend on the home run too much. They are 2 routine plays away from heading back to KC up 3-2. Too often this year it was a problem with Murphy not able to get to balls, booting balls or not able to turn critical double plays. Dilson Hererra replacing Murphy will solve a lot of the issues that plagued them at second base. They desperately need to find some team speed outside of the addition of Dilson Hererra who will probably battle teammate Stephen Matz for rookie of the year in the national league.
Add some speed, defense up the middle and middle relief. They have the $$$ and won't let this once in a lifetime rotation go to waste.
bwifan
Well-Known Member
Problem for the Mets going forward will be the Cubs are only going to get stronger and now have playoff experience on that young roster and the Dodgers will continue to be a very good team. Won't be easy for the Mets getting back to the World Series.
The WS results were no surprise. The Mets had an advantage of playing in the worst division in MLB in 2015. The NL East was 374-436, the AL Central was 409-399, and the AL had an overall W-L advantge over the NL. Yet the Mets were 90-72 and KC was 95-67.
So if their division does not improve they may be able to sneak in again and in short playoff series their three good starting pitchers can carry them. The question is how good those pitchers will be longer term and if they improve the rest of their otherwise mediocre team.
PS: It has been pointed out that the Mets have three pitchers ranked in the top 6 in average fast ball speed. The Cubs had one of the worst records in hitting fast balls, KC one of the best. So the post-season results were not surprising. As the Cubs mature, their fast ball hitting is expected to improve.
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The Mets' starting pitching is so good that they just need two or three bats. When they picked Cespedes up (and his ensuing hot streak), they took off. Cespedes cooled off majorly at the end of the season and into the post-season, but then Granderson and Murphy took off and that's all they needed to get them to the WS. When Murphy cooled off in the WS, they needed one more person to step up and no one did.
Even without that extra bat, the pitching was good enough to keep them in the games. Just didn't leave any room for mistakes - and the Mets had far too many.
Even without that extra bat, the pitching was good enough to keep them in the games. Just didn't leave any room for mistakes - and the Mets had far too many.
bwifan
Well-Known Member
I don't understand this mets pitching got beat by the royals fastball hitting offense. DeGrom had a rough outing but other then that the mets starters were spot on. Matz was very good...by the way Matz had the second highest fastball velocity for a left handed starter behind Sale so there is more 95 mph fastballs. Syndergaard got bleeded to death in first 2 innings but dominated from there. Harvey was dominating in the series, especially last night. Harvey gave up 4 games in 14 innings (taking 1 away for Cespedes in center on inside the Parker, could take another one off if Duda makes a simple throw). The mets starters handed 3 leads off late in games 1, 4, 5.
The problem was the relief and defense. Famila blew 2 saves without giving up a hit because of bad defense behind him.
For people who think the mets pitching is just fastballs, they don't pay attention. They have some of the best secondary pitches to compliment and all have incredible control of all their pitches. 2 of these guys were rookies who didn't crack the bigs until mid season. Also for people who say the Cubs can't hit a fastball, that is probably a deceiving stat too. They'd put a pounding on everything they saw coming down the stretch, including one of the hardest throwers in then game Gerritt Cole in the wild card game on the road in a hostile environment.
The problem was the relief and defense. Famila blew 2 saves without giving up a hit because of bad defense behind him.
For people who think the mets pitching is just fastballs, they don't pay attention. They have some of the best secondary pitches to compliment and all have incredible control of all their pitches. 2 of these guys were rookies who didn't crack the bigs until mid season. Also for people who say the Cubs can't hit a fastball, that is probably a deceiving stat too. They'd put a pounding on everything they saw coming down the stretch, including one of the hardest throwers in then game Gerritt Cole in the wild card game on the road in a hostile environment.
If the Mets can keep the big 5 starters healthy and signed to long term contracts and straighten out the bullpen, they can be the Atlanta Braves of the late 2010's to the 2020's. Most people can belittle them for their performance in the series but the playoff experience they gained this season will be invaluable down the road. They may lose Cespedes and Murphy but Brandon Nimmo is ready to take an of spot with Conforto (who is a future batting champ in waiting) and along with Herrera have several good middle infielders who were in Vegas and Binghamton this year moving up. With the Mets pitching and teams coming up like the Nationals, Cubs, Pirates, Cardinals Dodgers and Giants, I foresee an era of dominance for the NL like the early 60's to mid 70's. The only thing that can stop that is if one of those teams hires Amaro Jr. for their front office.
Good summary. The Mets also need a catcher that is a threat to throw out baserunners at 2nd. D'Arnaud wasn't even close on a single throw all postseason. Every single or walk was basically an easy double given that every runner was able to steal at will. Against a team like KC that hits singles like crazy, you can't just give up 2nd base and allow runners to get into scoring position without a fight.
I was also really disappointed in the hitting during the WS, Murphy, Cespedes and Wright in particular. Those guys have to produce runs when given opportunities. For example, last night, bases are loaded with nobody out and they only drive in 1 run. That was a huge missed opportunity.
Yet, despite their struggles what stings is that the Mets could very easily could have won this series. 2 blown saves, critical late inning errors were their undoing. They had the lead in the 8th numerous times and they have to put those games away.
Uh...
1. No, the Mets ERAs in WS were FAR below their standard:
Harvey 3.21 (he avoided throwing fastball, see below)
Matz 3.60 (he has the "slowest" starting pitcher Mets fastball)
Syndergaard 4.50
deGrom 7.20
Yes, they were great if you eliminate those pesky early innings - or late innings or whatever.
2. No surprise Harvey was the best Met pitcher vs. KC - he avoided the fastball. “The scouting report doesn't lie, what they're good at, that's what they do,” Harvey said. Yes, they have other pitches but the fastball is their best pitch and set up the secondary pitches: Noah Syndergaard (average fastball velocity: 97.7 mph), Matt Harvey (96.5) and Jacob deGrom (95.8).
3. The Cubs are not fastball hitters. According to FiveThirtyEight: "The Cubs have good hitters overall...Velocity is the Cubs’ kryptonite...While the average MLB hitter whiffs at 96 mph fastballs 22.8 percent of the time, the average Cubs hitter swings and misses 25.7 percent of the time against the same pitch type and velocity."
Yeah, could easily have won, they only lost 4 games to 1, including 2 of 3 at home.
Even if they had won all 3 at home, a true stat: WS teams that lead 3 games to 2 and then go on the road usually lose the next 2, so the odds were actually stacked against them because of the home field advantage.
I'm not saying winning the last 2 would be a cake walk, but they'd have to do it against Degrom and Syndergaard, no easy task. This series was much, much closer than the 4-1 finish. KC was trailing in the 8th inning in 3 of the 4 games they won. I read today that the Mets either had the lead or the game was tied in over 75% of the half-innings played in the series. Yet KC still won in 5. Two of KC's wins were really sparked by Mets mistakes. This is why Mets fans will argue this series could very easily be 3-2 Mets right now, and we are frustrated by the missed opportunity. But credit to KC for taking advantage when they could and maximizing their opportunities. The Mets didn't do that.
Game 1: Mets lead by 1 into the bottom of the 9th when KC hit a solo HR. KC made a great, timely play to get the win and creates the first blown save for Familia in months.
Game 2: Mets only lead for 1 inning. KC goes up by 3 an inning later and adds to the lead late. This game was all KC.
Game 3: Mets take the lead in the 1st, lose it in the 2nd, regain it in the 3rd and add to it later. This game was all NY.
Game 4: Mets lead by 1 into the top of the 8th when Murphy error sparks KC run. Mets mistake sparked an eventual KC win.
Game 5: Mets lead by 1 into the top of the 9th when Duda has an errant throw home to stop the tying run. I don't think it was ruled an error, but a good throw would have gotten the out. Mets mistake sparked an eventual KC win.
Regardless, I never expected the Mets to get this far, but the way they lost makes for a lot of frustration. It was an enjoyable season, and the future is bright with this pitching staff of young guns (+Wheeler's return). Hopefully they can build on this and make a run again next year.
I don't want any part of Murphy or Cespedes. Thanks for the ride but I would like this team to add some speed and situational baseball, manufacturing runs if needed. Can't live on the long ball all year, times you go cold you need to fight for a run other ways. KC is great at that. Also defense killed them all year, the pitching staff hides it a lot but this needs addressed too. I have no doubt that Sandy will make the necessary signings to complete this team. It was a rough way to finish but to see the Royals do what they do and for the mets to struggle the way they did was a very good to know what direction this team must go this offseason.
I think there was going to be a lot of pressure to resign both Murphy and Cespedes, until this series. Cespedes was cold at the plate all postseason, and Murphy had 2 critical errors and couldn't follow up his incredible NLDS and NLCS success. That could be a blessing in disguise.
The pressure would have been there for sure but no way they were going to entertain signing Murphy. No chance at all. He is a great guy, plays hard, can swing the bat but never walks, makes bad mental errors both base running and on defense and is terrible turning the double play. Love Murphy but he isnt in the blueprint moving forward
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