Destroyed my favorite hiking boots ever in the red mud of the na pali coast.Looks like it closed in 2014, but now may be reopened (or reopening). It got his in the 2008 real estate crash.
Golf courses you have played that no longer exist?
- Thread starter john4psu
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Har har har, blame the millennials for poor management, poor marketing and market research by the golf courses out there that have failed to attract new players over the years.
I was an avid golfer through my teen and college / post college years, but it has just become way too expensive to go out for a round many times per year. IMO the courses have priced themselves out of the market. A decade ago a beginner (hacker) course near me would charge $25 for weekend rate and a cart, these days the same course is up to $45 for weekend rate and cart and it's still a hacker course. The "nicer" courses have raised their rates in step. I'm sorry, but at those rates many "young" people aren't going to have the funds to make golf a weekly, or even monthly, hobby.
I know this falls on deaf ears of those of you who play beautifully designed / landscaped courses out there, but for the rest of us that would like to go out and enjoy a round that doesn't cost and arm and a leg it's not worth the cost.
Modern golf courses design is what is killing off the game. They are being made to be SLOW, difficult and expensive to maintain. People are making decisions on what to do with their time and money. A 5 hour round for $65+ becomes a tough sell. I think the older courses that were designed for 4 hour rounds for under $50 are still prospering.
I agree with your post.
When I was younger, I caddied. Also, my father was a teaching golf pro, and I played nearly every day as well as competing in junior tournaments. Now, I will only play golf if I can walk -- why spend 4-5 hours outside, sitting on my butt.
I hate the newer, fancier golf courses. There is too much distance between the greens and the tees, making it harder to walk. Also, many of them have too many water hazards, which is very irritating if you don't have enough time to play enough to get your game in shape. Newer golf courses are generally made to be played by touring pros and are far too hard to be played by average golfers. Also, the increasing length makes them both harder and longer to play. The game of golf is suffering from many self-inflicted wounds.
Agree that many newer courses require a cart because of the distance from green to tee.
But the argument about courses being too long, it’s a two-edged sword. If you play the correct tees for your game, it doesn’t matter if the back tees are 1,000 yds longer. What makes the game slow are golfers that refuse to move up a set (or two) of tees because they want to play the Championship tees or play the same tees they’ve played for the last 20 years.
And many golfers are simply slow. If the ave golfer could simply take 10-15-20 seconds less in every shot process, that would knock off 15-30 minutes a round. Play ready golf!
So true. Self-inflicted, indeed. Many of the newer public/municipal design have the greens on hole numbers 6 and 12 located near the clubhouse. Someone with foresight figured maybe players would want to play a quick 6 after work or 12 if they didn’t have time for a full round.
Cranberry Highlands in Pittsburgh is designed that way. Talking to a former pro from there and he informs me that the lackeys in charge didn’t want to “track” the different groups and they said it would be too hard to manage. The people running the place represent local government inefficiency at its’ worst.
Big believer in "ready golf." My buddies and I once had to get in a front 9 quickly in order to reach the 10th tee before a league that was going off. We played "speed golf" -- grab a club, hit, then race to the ball -- and finished the front in 80 minutes within a couple strokes of our typical scores. No agonizing deliberations over shots/clubs or over-analysis of greens -- just play.
Unfortunately I have a friend that plays SO slowly. I’ve taken advantage of the new Rules to re-emphasize how he needs to pick up the pace and explained ways that he can (and must) do that.
Saving 15 seconds a shot process by each golfer in a foursome could easily cut an hour or more off a round of golf. (Wish the PGA Tour would get aggressive here, they set a pathetic example re: pace of play.)
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I actually time myself...when I come to the ball to take my stance I make sure it doesnt take longer than 10 seconds. One practice swing, set and let her rip. I have no idea how someone can take 4-5 practice swings then stand over the ball at the ready for 5-10 seconds and then swing. No way I can score that way...
Things that are slowing play:
- Carts. Yes, that's right. Carts. Two guys going to the other guy's ball and waiting for them to hit, before they even attempt to find their own ball. And if the course is wet, carts get restricted to paths. This has a huge impact on time. I played today. Six holes had cart restrictions due to wet fairways and it added 30-45 minutes to the round.
- Distance. Carts are becoming necessary due to the ridiculous distances between holes, and the length of holes. If you can walk a course you're still walking a 7,000+ yard course to play tees that might be less than 6,000 yards.
- Off line distance, due in part to hitting it farther with lively balls and 45+ inch drivers, and then having to search higher grass and wooded areas to find the ball.
- Ball expense. Most are not going to limit a search to 5 minutes looking for that $4 ball, especially if it means returning to the tee once the ball is deemed "lost." Most people will look for their $4 ball in the woods outside the course boundary. Recognizing the need to speed play, the new rule reduces search time from 5 to 3 minutes. But like most government actions, they've missed hitting the root cause. The new rule might even slow play if play is by the rules and it leads to more lost balls. And why should out-of-bounds be stroke and distance rather than played like a lateral hazard? Why this didn't get changed with the new rules is beyond me.
- Sand -- that the average player has no idea how to handle. Sand is now the defense instead of smaller greens and challenge by layout design. Sand needs to be raked, and that takes time. For the average player sand is a one stroke penalty -- with the extra time needed to make that stroke.
- Guys that play little and have no short game -- blading it back and forth across the green while others stand and watch. Too many watch tour pros using high lofted wedges and think they can pull off the same stuff, when they should be chipping with a 5 or 7 iron.
- Golfer ego. Unfortunately, for many, the correct golf course length would mean moving to the ladies tee. A large segment of the golfing public cannot break 100, which means they should be on an executive par 3 course.
- Age. Golfers are getting older, and they move slower. Most don't recognize that they've slowed down.
- Carts. Again. How many times did you pull the wrong club(s) around the green and needed to walk back to the cart? Or you didn't bother and hit a poor shot because the club was inappropriate.
Ball Expense! I live right across the road from a club that is a 10k initiation and 6k a year not including grill room minimum. I go for power walks there all the time and get all the Pro V-1's I need. These rich dudes wont spend thirty seconds looking for a ball...and I truly appreciate it. At my club, $2500 a year, the guys will camp out for a nite if they lose a Pro V!
One other thing slowing play at the more expensive, "modern" golf courses is the difficulty of the greens, both in terms of speed and mounding. For any but the best golfers, it is ridiculous to have good sized breaks on any but one or two holes.
For example, after I graduated from Ohio State, I caddied at Jack Nicklaus' Muirfield course in Columbus for about 1.5 months. The greens were as fast as glass and had many difficult breaks. On many greens ,while chipping, an average golfer would be lucky to keep the ball on the green, much less get it close. Since it is Muirfield and was designed for tournament play, it is OK for the pros, but even with the shorter tee placements it is mostly unplayable by average golfers.
The non-tournament venues that have these types of greens are contributing to slow play and the decline of golf.
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A
anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
I’ve found plenty of Pro V-1s. They don’t help my game.
Best advice I’ve ever gotten re balls: don’t worry about the right ball for you until youre good enough not to lose them.
In terms of courses that have closed, I forget the name but there was a dog track in King of Prussia I played a few times. Wasn’t great but it sure beat shopping on a nice day.
Nothing better than being behind guys in carts when one guy hits his ball while the other guy sits in the cart and watches. Then they proceed to drive to the other players ball which is TEN YARDS away.
Drove me nuts all summer...all the heavy rain our course was cart path only for a majority of the summer. You would play behind guys who not only sit in the cart and wait for their partner to hit, they would saunter out to their ball and not like the club they took with them!!!! Go back to the cart and get another club!!! One time I freaked out....the golfer got out of his cart, walked 20+ yds to his ball, used his range finder to get the distance, then WALKED BACK TO THE CART TO CHOOSE HIS CLUB! He did this 3 times! After his 3rd time he got this, "Hit the f...ing ball or I am firing one over your head!"
Fat bastard narcissists are the bane of today’s society. I love to walk and do so frequently when it is an option. I also can drain a cooler in a cart but I can still who 90 in under 4 hours playing by USGA rules. It depends on the circumstances and the playing partners! I hate fat bastard narcissists, however.
It was over 26 years ago when I played it. Had to use up vacation in TX before relocating to FL. Only hole I recollect was a par 3 that skirted the lake. My game was certainly not at the tipped out level in those days nor is it now for that matter.
Agree on old style architecture. Walking off a green up to the tee area is the way we should be playing.
The par three along the lake was #14. The normal men's tee was about an 8 iron over the edge of the water. The tips were a small, hidden tee behind the 13th green -- requiring a three wood that was all carry over the lake to the peninsula green. The 15th from the tips was similarly a step up in difficulty. Had to hit through a shoot of trees about 180 yards away, with all carry over a ravine, whereas from the shorter tees one simply hit around the ravine and trees as a dogleg. The second shot was a short iron but to a steeply sloping and very narrow green.
Waterwood was one of the few courses I can remember where difficulty was increased not only through added distance, but more so by the severity of shot angles and forced carries.
Yes 14 is the hole. My ex made par and was extremely excited. Her first time swinging a club. I remember being high left and in the water.
Do you play in Houston at all? I pretty much “grew up” at Memorial. Started playing there and I don’t think I ever broke 100. The old Houston Muni’s bring back great memories.
Do you play in Houston at all? I pretty much “grew up” at Memorial. Started playing there and I don’t think I ever broke 100. The old Houston Muni’s bring back great memories.
Wife and I retired and left Houston about 2 years ago. We lived near Nasa for about half of my career. Used to play Bayforest in Laport (a muni) quite often, and some of the nicer area courses in company tournaments. As you know, Memorial is downtown, which means it is crowded and difficult to get on. Played it a few times but wasn't that impressed with the layout, even though it hosted The Houston Open during the Sam Snead era.
I've played the TPC at the Woodlands and Redstone (now The Tournament Course at The Golf Club of Houston). Both continue to host PGA and senior PGA tour events, but if I could have Waterwood back, that would be my choice over the other two. There's only so much that can be done with a flat tract of land, and that is Houston. Could be my Western PA roots, but I do like courses built on hilly terrain.
I grew up playing Coraopolis Heights (a short, hilly 9 hole course) near Pittsburgh, which was sold off and is now a housing development. Worked at (the original) Montour Country Club as a teen. That land (on the parkway near the airport) is now an office park. The club built its current course nearby in Moon Township. Moon Golf Club, a nearby public course, is still in operation, but that wasn't what it was called when I played there 50 years ago.
If I still lived in PA I doubt very much whether I would continue to play. The value just isn't there. Despite the "growth" claims we may hear on the Golf Channel, I think there is little doubt that golf is reverting back to being a game for the wealthy. It did not need to be this way, but like everything else, the wealthy are making the rules. The pro tours will survive as long as executives continue to get their Wednesday pro-ams.
I played a bunch of the Muni's and had great memories. Wortham, Sharpstown and course by U of H. They were basic old style layouts. All I believe started with oil greens. (Why did they call them greens if they were black). I lived in Bellaire so navigation was easy.
In CA now and have many low cost options to play. Some courses approach CC level of condition but there at the high end of the price spectrum. Muni's here have several very attractive pricing rates.
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Can't believe that nobody has mourned the passing of the Dorneyville Golf Center. This was located in the western suburbs of Allentown. They had a miniature golf course, a driving range and what I played an 18 hole par three course. During the week you could play all day on the 18-hole for one price. It even had a water hazard on one hole. You got a putter and a 9-iron. And it was close enough that my friends and I could bike there. Plus, pin ball machines and Yocco hot dogs. The course was owned by the Lerner family - Rick Lerner of the Golf Channel's family. When I was in my late teens and still too young for bars, it was a great place to take a date.
Now it's a shopping area.
Boy am I getting old.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Oakhurst Golf Links in White Sulphur Springs, WV. It was the oldest golf course in the USA (except that it wasn't the oldest continuously run one). It reopened in the 90's and you played with Gutta Percha golf balls and Hickory shafted clubs.
Nine hole greens fees included 4 clubs (driver/fairway wood, long iron, short iron and putter) and 3 balls. You teed up the ball with sand that was in buckets on each tee. The fairways were mowed by sheep! Here is a 3 minute video to get the flavor.
I played there once (solo) and it was a blast. It took some getting used to the heavy, lead filled club head on that driver. My first tee shot started off airborne but did that OLD GOLF BALL trick of curving straight downward to the ground except, it went into the lake! On the second hole, I hooked my drive so bad that I thought it was going to come back to me like a boomerang. I lost the 3rd golf ball before finishing the 2nd hole and had to walk back to the pro shop to buy more balls. After the 3rd hole, I finally was able to control the ball and had a lot of fun.
It seems that the Greenbrier tried to make a go of the old place but decided to build a championship course on the property. The Greenbrier's old courses aren't really up to todays PGA players. Here is an article from when they bought the property and another from when they announced the new development. Notice that they didn't mention killing off Oakhurst in the new course announcement.
https://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/greenbrier-buys-historic-oakhurst-links-will-keep-it-intact
http://www.greenbrier.com/HomePage-...nbrier/Press-Room/2016/New-Mountaintop-Course
Nine hole greens fees included 4 clubs (driver/fairway wood, long iron, short iron and putter) and 3 balls. You teed up the ball with sand that was in buckets on each tee. The fairways were mowed by sheep! Here is a 3 minute video to get the flavor.
I played there once (solo) and it was a blast. It took some getting used to the heavy, lead filled club head on that driver. My first tee shot started off airborne but did that OLD GOLF BALL trick of curving straight downward to the ground except, it went into the lake! On the second hole, I hooked my drive so bad that I thought it was going to come back to me like a boomerang. I lost the 3rd golf ball before finishing the 2nd hole and had to walk back to the pro shop to buy more balls. After the 3rd hole, I finally was able to control the ball and had a lot of fun.
It seems that the Greenbrier tried to make a go of the old place but decided to build a championship course on the property. The Greenbrier's old courses aren't really up to todays PGA players. Here is an article from when they bought the property and another from when they announced the new development. Notice that they didn't mention killing off Oakhurst in the new course announcement.
https://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/greenbrier-buys-historic-oakhurst-links-will-keep-it-intact
http://www.greenbrier.com/HomePage-...nbrier/Press-Room/2016/New-Mountaintop-Course
Last time I stopped by, 10 years ago now, the Stockdale 9 was developed as was the South 9 but the North 9 was not developed where the clubhouse sat along the main roads. I spent many days there and remember the day we were told it was going to be sold the 1st time, everyone was in disbelief.
No one ever thought Hercules would dispose of the club, the no longer supported it as it was opened to outside memberships years before and paid it's own way. A former CEO was brought back in to "try to salvage stock price, the price he ruined" and he instituted a fire sale to do so. It didn't work and the club was lost.
The new owner resold the South 9 to a developer and recouped the entire cost of the 27 holes in that deal. The rest was gravy for him. I was removed in the purge so I never had the displeasure to go through the changes. I was told many horror stories by friends. It happens. Such a shame. The logo White Oak tree, over 200 years old, broke in half the day the sale was announced and fell over completely the day the sale was completed. Fate?
Do you remember the pitch and putt that was out on Somerset pike?
This! The last time I played it took about 30 minutes longer than necessary because one of the guys had a pre-shot routine that took forever. The kicker: he was topping everything and probably didn't break 130. The two worst putters I have ever seen also took the longest to do it.
Visited that course, Oakhurst Links, a few years ago. Unfortunately it wasn't open for play on the day I was there. But did get to walk the course and see what it was like. Wish I had the opportunity to play with those old clubs and gutties.
I picked up the sticks for the first time in four years last week (it's the sport for old guys right?) and I couldn't help but think about the golf courses I played when I was young that no longer exist.
Oakmont East, Oakmont
Rose Ridge, Allison Park
Woodlawn, Tarentum
Sheraton Greensburg, Greensburg
There used to be a golf course I passed on Rt. 22 to State College around Ebensburg that no longer is there. I finally did stop once and play it.
Is that the same for you? Golf courses that you used to play that.no longer exist?
Oakmont East, Oakmont
Rose Ridge, Allison Park
Woodlawn, Tarentum
Sheraton Greensburg, Greensburg
There used to be a golf course I passed on Rt. 22 to State College around Ebensburg that no longer is there. I finally did stop once and play it.
Is that the same for you? Golf courses that you used to play that.no longer exist?
Silver springs in Mechanicsburg. My brother was club pro for a few years and i worked as cart boy and also at the driving range when I was 12.
Blue ridge and Blue Mountain/Felicita in Harrisburg.
Blue ridge and Blue Mountain/Felicita in Harrisburg.
Blackmoor in Richmond, OH. I used to play there a couple times a year, as it was easy to get to (not far off Rt. 22 outside of Steubenville) from Pittsburgh, not too crowded generally, and pretty reasonably priced. Use to take my two boys there when they were in H.S. and college. I believe they closed down a couple years ago, and did so to drill for NG.
The last time I went by Ebensburg, and I go by there every couple months, it was hard to believe how bad that former course looked. So overgrown with weeds, briars, and about every thing else....
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Brandywine in Peninsula Ohio. Place was unique in that it had a par three that was off a cliff of about 100 feet; tough club selection if it was your first time. This was followed by a famous "Z Hole" par five where you teed off with a long iron to get around trees (but not too far to go into the woods), hit a three wood to get around more trees, then into the green. Single father was raising his son who had a horrible traffic accident as a high schooler where he survived but his friends did not. Kid had trouble coping and turned to drugs. Father died suddenly when he was in his late 20's. He got wasted and took off his clothes on one of the greens. When the cops came, he stole one of their guns and the other one shot him to death. The family sold or gave it to a state park service.
I can't recall the name of the other one but it was in west akron. the owner was found shot to death in the trunk of his car and parked in a local hotel. The investigation into his ex-wife found that she paid her brother's ticket to fly into Ohio from Florida where he lived within hours of him taking the flight ("give me the next ticket to CLE at any cost!"). She then paid a company to blacktop her driveway the next day and paid another person to paint her basement. They found bullets embedded in the wood on the stairway leading to the basement. The brother later admitted that his sister called him, told him she shot her ex, had him flu up, they dragged the body from the basement into the car that night, and parked it. Fearing physical evidence, they paid a company to pave the driveway the next day at any cost and another to paint the basement (the brother filled the holes before the contractor painted it). In all cases, they paid top dollar to get it done ASAP. The family sold the golf course to a developer and the developer built homes.
I can't recall the name of the other one but it was in west akron. the owner was found shot to death in the trunk of his car and parked in a local hotel. The investigation into his ex-wife found that she paid her brother's ticket to fly into Ohio from Florida where he lived within hours of him taking the flight ("give me the next ticket to CLE at any cost!"). She then paid a company to blacktop her driveway the next day and paid another person to paint her basement. They found bullets embedded in the wood on the stairway leading to the basement. The brother later admitted that his sister called him, told him she shot her ex, had him flu up, they dragged the body from the basement into the car that night, and parked it. Fearing physical evidence, they paid a company to pave the driveway the next day at any cost and another to paint the basement (the brother filled the holes before the contractor painted it). In all cases, they paid top dollar to get it done ASAP. The family sold the golf course to a developer and the developer built homes.
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