Frosh year - Teske, Teasdale, RBY, & Berge

[GogglesPaizano]

I am really excited for the incoming talent. Given what we have seen so far, granted some is freestyle, who do you see having the best year next year? My intuition goes with Berge "if" he can hold weight without gassing. I see him as a solid AA with RBY nipping at his toes as an AA as well. Love what I saw from both this past week. That said if someone shocks us with his upside (a la Bo or Nolf with a frosh finals appearance) think it will be RBY. I see Teske with an outside shot at AA maybe 25% chance but he will have a very solid year. I remain in the camp that Teasdale will red shirt. All said this group will deliver as many points as the combo of Zain/Keener that we lost. I think we also gain a few at 141, 197 and Heavy. Barring injury 140 points is a low end estimate. I also think we get back on the bonus train next year. 150 points is clearly doable.

 

[PSU Mike]

Except Berge is a RSFR.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Except Berge is a RSFR.

Indeed, good catch, I got ahead of myself

 

[mrh1645]

[QUOTE="Love what I saw from both this past week.[/QUOTE] Did RBY wrestle this past week? I missed it. I know he is in Akron this weekend, but just wondering what you are referring to.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Haven't seen enough of RBY lately (this week will be telling) but I would suspect that Berge will have the best Freshman year if they all were to wrestle (obviously hypothetical)

 

[jerot]

Haven't seen enough of RBY lately (this week will be telling) but I would suspect that Berge will have the best Freshman year if they all were to wrestle (obviously hypothetical)

informative

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

I am really excited for the incoming talent. Given what we have seen so far, granted some is freestyle, who do you see having the best year next year? My intuition goes with Berge "if" he can hold weight without gassing. I see him as a solid AA with RBY nipping at his toes as an AA as well. Love what I saw from both this past week. That said if someone shocks us with his upside (a la Bo or Nolf with a frosh finals appearance) think it will be RBY. I see Teske with an outside shot at AA maybe 25% chance but he will have a very solid year. I remain in the camp that Teasdale will red shirt. All said this group will deliver as many points as the combo of Zain/Keener that we lost. I think we also gain a few at 141, 197 and Heavy. Barring injury 140 points is a low end estimate. I also think we get back on the bonus train next year. 150 points is clearly doable.

What evidence have you seen that would make you believe Berge would be gassing at 149?

 

[nitlion6]

What evidence have you seen that would make you believe Berge would be gassing at 149?

Obviously he was resting up during the second match against O'Connor.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

What evidence have you seen that would make you believe Berge would be gassing at 149?

None, that is why I said"if". He was listed as the#1 160 lb wrestler out of highschool and has wrestled most of the last 2 years above 149. 149 is definitely a cut for him. He is thick enough to have room to cut, but you never know someones's gas tank until they have to make weight for 5 months of a grueling season. There is no free lunch and I see it as totally appropriate to express interest in this unknown for someone new to the lineup.

 

[Law-Deezie]

I think Tease should shirt coming in. RBY, I believe, is better at this point in time.

 

[El-Jefe]

None, that is why I said"if". He was listed as the#1 160 lb wrestler out of highschool and has wrestled most of the last 2 years above 149. 149 is definitely a cut for him. He is thick enough to have room to cut, but you never know someones's gas tank until they have to make weight for 5 months of a grueling season. There is no free lunch and I see it as totally appropriate to express interest in this unknown for someone new to the lineup.

149 is not "definitely a cut for him." He wrestled up at 160 in HS.

Can't link directly to his Track 2017 page, but search for him there, and you'll see he wrestled 152 in at least 6 duals in 3 different months, including March.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

149 is not "definitely a cut for him." He wrestled up at 160 in HS.

Can't link directly to his Track 2017 page, but search for him there, and you'll see he wrestled 152 in at least 6 duals in 3 different months, including March.

Yep and 70kg (154) in freestyle recently but there was mention he was cutting to get there. So definitely not a major cut, but he has to go further for 149. I don't see any gas tank issues at 70kg so he is close. Bottom line is well have to see.

 

[Ian]

Berge is Nolf’s heir apparent but next year will battle with Verk, and maybe NLee, at 49.... and two of the three lightweight freshmen will go but who will be interesting. I think RBY sits but...

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Berge is Nolf’s heir apparent but next year will battle with Verk, and maybe NLee, at 49.... and two of the three lightweight freshmen will go but who will be interesting. I think RBY sits but...

The consensus seems to indicate this is a one year event seeing at 149 for Berge then he will move up to fill Jason's vacancy at 157. Some think Lee will move up to 149 at the same time. I am going to see a little more meat on his bones at 141 as I still think his biggest weakness (that is second to letting guys in to his legs too easily) is sheer strength. Guys like Mackenna have out muscled him both on their shots or his when he gets caught underneath.

One very interesting point you raise is what about Berge vs Verk? I assume Berge is a cut above but I don't think we have had any details of what is really happening in the room. Have they ever wrestled off? This year should be a definite. Back in the day Spyker would have given weekly reports.

 

[Lionfan44]

The consensus seems to indicate this is a one year event seeing at 149 for Berge then he will move up to fill Jason's vacancy at 157. Some think Lee will move up to 149 at the same time. I am going to see a little more meat on his bones at 141 as I still think his biggest weakness (that is second to letting guys in to his legs too easily) is sheer strength. Guys like Mackenna have out muscled him both on their shots or his when he gets caught underneath.

One very interesting point you raise is what about Berge vs Verk? I assume Berge is a cut above but I don't think we have had any details of what is really happening in the room. Have they ever wrestled off? This year should be a definite. Back in the day Spyker would have given weekly reports.

I agree with your statement about Nick needing some more meat on his bones. IMHO Nick is a career 141. I don't think he has to cut much to make that, and I think he is done growing.

 

[nitlion6]

The consensus seems to indicate this is a one year event seeing at 149 for Berge then he will move up to fill Jason's vacancy at 157. Some think Lee will move up to 149 at the same time. I am going to see a little more meat on his bones at 141 as I still think his biggest weakness (that is second to letting guys in to his legs too easily) is sheer strength. Guys like Mackenna have out muscled him both on their shots or his when he gets caught underneath.

One very interesting point you raise is what about Berge vs Verk? I assume Berge is a cut above but I don't think we have had any details of what is really happening in the room. Have they ever wrestled off? This year should be a definite. Back in the day Spyker would have given weekly reports.

For what it is worth, and second hand.
Verk was quite impressive early on, but during the second half of the year Berge put the pedal down and there was separation. Assuming good health all around Berge is this season's 149 pounder and he will be very good.
Don't be surprised if Verk attempts 141, which would allow Nick to grab a redshirt.

As always, mostly second hand and subject to failure of the baloney test.

 

[Ian]

Berge will be real good! Verk is good but Berge has another gear or two as you mentioned.

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

Berge will be real good! Verk is good but Berge has another gear or two as you mentioned.

He won't be gassing?

 

[matter7172]

I agree with your statement about Nick needing some more meat on his bones. IMHO Nick is a career 141. I don't think he has to cut much to make that, and I think he is done growing.

In a way, I'd like to see Nick take a redshirt year like Zain's.

 

[D3wrestler]

FWIW The last time a true frosh placed 5th @ 141lbs at NCAA'S for PSU, the young man went on to RS the next year and ended up with a decent career!!!

 

[tabenn]

For what it is worth, and second hand.
Verk was quite impressive early on, but during the second half of the year Berge put the pedal down and there was separation. Assuming good health all around Berge is this season's 149 pounder and he will be very good.
Don't be surprised if Verk attempts 141, which would allow Nick to grab a redshirt.

As always, mostly second hand and subject to failure of the baloney test.

Verk at 141---would make for a great line-up and let Lee RS--but I dont see it--Verk pretty thick for 141--to much of a cut I think,,,

 

[nitlion6]

Verk at 141---would make for a great line-up and let Lee RS--but I dont see it--Verk pretty thick for 141--to much of a cut I think,,,

I was wondering the same. However, he wrestled 65kg (143) at juniors.
The move to 141 for this year gets him into the lineup. Verk to 141 is assuming a redshirt for Nick Lee which if possible I believe is desired.

 

[tabenn]

I was wondering the same. However, he wrestled 65kg (143) at juniors.
The move to 141 for this year gets him into the lineup. Verk to 141 is assuming a redshirt for Nick Lee which if possible I believe is desired.

I am a Verk fan--if he can make the cut and be strong with no tank issues-IM IN! Lee can only benefit from a year of strength training.

But Verk at 141 and a Lee RS--with all the new talent at the lower weights--does Lee RS next season help or hurt down the road? meaning some big talents may be riding the pine.......

 

[nitlion6]

I am a Verk fan--if he can make the cut and be strong with no tank issues-IM IN! Lee can only benefit from a year of strength training.

But Verk at 141 and a Lee RS--with all the new talent at the lower weights--does Lee RS next season help or hurt down the road? meaning some big talents may be riding the pine.......

I have no real clue how it all works out down the road, but I am fairly certain it will work itself out.
Just a guess right now, but if Nick shirts and Verk can do 141 this season with the two true freshman at 125 and 133 then next year follow with Teske, RBY or Teasdale, Nick and Verk at 141 and 149 with Brady at 157.
After that is too far out there to guess.

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

Only June but so far nothing from Cael indicating a Nick Lee redshirt.

 

[nitlion6]

Only June but so far nothing from Cael indicating a Nick Lee redshirt.

You would expect there to be a public announcement?

Have to listen to what a few folks mention, read the tea leaves, put a little knowledge in the mix and make a guess. Hopefully without pulling anything important.

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

You would expect there to be a public announcement?

Have to listen to what a few folks mention, read the tea leaves, put a little knowledge in the mix and make a guess. Hopefully without pulling anything important.

I suppose, but outside of you, I have not heard anyone mention a Nick Lee redshirt.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

I suppose, but outside of you, I have not heard anyone mention a Nick Lee redshirt.

Not that it matters or means anything, but a redshirt for Nick Lee has been discussed on this board in numerous previous threads. The PSU staff has shown they like to redshirt their guys, even the elite recruits. I can't think of many guys that have gone through the program without a redshirt. So put me in the camp that the staff would like to find a way to redshirt Lee, and also in the camp that a RS for Lee could be very beneficial for him.

 

[PaJules]

I agree! A redshirt year after a 5th place finish (as a true frosh) at NCAAs could be very beneficial. Just ask Zain!

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

I agree! A redshirt year after a 5th place finish (as a true frosh) at NCAAs could be very beneficial. Just ask Zain!

I don't really look at the Zain Retherford story as anything that is indicative of a pattern, or a "system" type of thing. I have him in his own catagory as his own thing. Nico took a redshirt after his junior year, and that also proved beneficial as he won a national championship, his first, after his junior year.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

No question Zain's redshirt benefited him. Similarly I think Lee would be very well served with a RS year to bulk up. That said Zain was the nation's best wrestler 3 years in a row and should have won the Hodge 3 times. Anyone who thinks Lee will transform into another Zain due to a RS year is being overly optimistic. Zain was a one of a kind probably the best ever PSU wrestler, including compared to Taylor and Ruth. Lee might be challenged to win even one National championship. If Verk could go down and give him that one more year of development, I would welcome it, but I think that is a long shot.

 

[nitlion6]

Looking at a singular example, or snapshot analysis doesn't show anything except a single example.

However, through nine seasons Cael recruits (or significant contributors) who hsd a redshirt to use and redshirted.

Quentin, Ed Ruuuuth, David, Altons, Nico, Morgan Mc, Matt B, Jordan C, Zain, Jason Nolf, Bo, Nick Nevills, Jon Gingrich, Cutch, Jimmy Gilibon. These off the top of my head.

Those who did not use their redshirt.
Mark Hall and Nick Lee, and they both need a qualifier that says "not yet".

A singular example is unnecessary. Nick Lee, even if he wins 3 titles isn't Zain. He is Nick Lee and very talented in his own right.

The big picture indicates somewhere along the way Nick will probably use a redshirt. The only way I see him not is if the staff simply believes there is not a suitable substitute, and Verk possibly available this year and what else is down below I can not imagine a suitable substitute not being available.

Mark may or may not use a redshirt for an Olympic year, but right now he is the only kid who may not use his redshirt opportunity.

 

[Callthestall]

I think the ability to redshirt a wrestler mid career is sometimes a 2 fold move. It helps the wrestler that redshirts, but also creates an opportunity to give another talented wrestler a season of competition.
I think that early enrollment was the reason N. Lee was able to slide in and be very competitive his true freshman year.
The coaches would have a better understanding of what recruits are willing to sit and wait a year and which kid might transfer. If Verke can get down to 141 than a Nick Lee redshirt might make sense for this year.