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Fresno state

I haven't seen an official announcement but they just liked a tweet about steps to take. Lots of people seem to be confirming unfortunately. I would assume given the new NCAA waiver they will "count" wrestling as a sport this year towards their minimum but not compete. Just a guess on my part but can't see them paying for all that testing for a partial season that is going to be cut anyway.

I should edit to say the team will be cut (not the season, at least I hope not for all)


Just terrible for a program that was cut after 2005, reinstated competitively in 2018 and had half their lineup qualify for NCAAs in just the third year back.
 
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NCAA waived the minimum # programs requirement, and voila.

Wasn't a issue they had 21 programs and are now at 18 .But I'm with you it's gonna happen way more then we think.They estimated budgets around $600,000 a year when they brought the program back in 2018 and they spent $1.12 million in 2019.And the stripper situation with the recruit didn't help
 
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I have a feeling the academic administrative side is loaded up like that everywhere. I wonder how covid will affect them. I don't think colleges will be going back to the way things were anytime soon, if ever.
The modern (post-90’s) College/University model is severely exposed by this pandemic. MOC’s never became the threat because Universities used their political and media muscle to tout the quality of on-campus classes. Unfortunately for college leaders and their bloated cadre of administrators the value proposition surrounding a campus experience just doesn't hold up. Hundreds of thousands of students are learning that a reasonable level of legitimate learning can take place on-line. Affluent families can still send junior off to 4-5 years of college bliss, but, they will not gain academic superiority over those who learn from home. During the course of a single generation, this will crush places like PSU, OSU, and other non exclusive public universities. Along with all the other trash being hauled off to the slag heap will be college athletics. The “Ivy League model” may remain, but, folks like us are going to have to help create new venues and mechanisms for our great sport.
 
Definately cut 👎

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The modern (post-90’s) College/University model is severely exposed by this pandemic. MOC’s never became the threat because Universities used their political and media muscle to tout the quality of on-campus classes. Unfortunately for college leaders and their bloated cadre of administrators the value proposition surrounding a campus experience just doesn't hold up. Hundreds of thousands of students are learning that a reasonable level of legitimate learning can take place on-line. Affluent families can still send junior off to 4-5 years of college bliss, but, they will not gain academic superiority over those who learn from home. During the course of a single generation, this will crush places like PSU, OSU, and other non exclusive public universities. Along with all the other trash being hauled off to the slag heap will be college athletics. The “Ivy League model” may remain, but, folks like us are going to have to help create new venues and mechanisms for our great sport.
With the declining birth rate and people waking up to the student loan scam, colleges were already facing a challenging future. Throw-in Covid and look out. I believe a NYU economist is predicting that 40% of the nation's colleges will fail in the next 10 to 15 years. Which explains why the B1G schools originally cancelled fall sports (citing safety concerns) and still allowed students on campus. The schools refuse to admit they need the many tens of millions of dollars being paid in room and board fees.
 
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With the declining birth rate and people waking up to the student loan scam, colleges were already facing a challenging future. Throw-in Covid and look out. I believe a NYU economist is predicting that 40% of the nation's colleges will fail in the next 10 to 15 years. Which explains why the B1G schools originally cancelled fall sports (citing safety concerns) and still allowed students on campus. The schools refuse to admit they need the many tens of millions of dollars being paid in room and board fees.
I live in Lewisburg, and Bucknell, beginning about five years ago, severely limited the number of students allowed to live off campus. I think the number is 100 male and 100 female students, compared to 500 prior to that. Can you imagine the devastation to SC if PSU did that, which is a possibility, if they aren't filling up the dorms.
 
If D1 goes down to only a handful of teams, then where would wrestlers go to wrestle? What has happened in other sports? Did club leagues arise, or did kids just mostly quit the sport?
 
If D1 goes down to only a handful of teams, then where would wrestlers go to wrestle? What has happened in other sports? Did club leagues arise, or did kids just mostly quit the sport?
And would it make sense to allow remaining D1 teams to go two-deep at each weight? Or would that not be worth it because it would kill remaining teams even more quickly?
 
I live in Lewisburg, and Bucknell, beginning about five years ago, severely limited the number of students allowed to live off campus. I think the number is 100 male and 100 female students, compared to 500 prior to that. Can you imagine the devastation to SC if PSU did that, which is a possibility, if they aren't filling up the dorms.
My daughter is a senior in high school, we have done some college visits this fall. One school school required students to live on campus for 3 years, another to live on campus for 2 years. For the kids who have to get student loans, this is a big deal, you can cut your R&B expenses in half living off campus.
 
My daughter is a senior in high school, we have done some college visits this fall. One school school required students to live on campus for 3 years, another to live on campus for 2 years. For the kids who have to get student loans, this is a big deal, you can cut your R&B expenses in half living off campus.
Yeah but you get what you pay for and one trip to the on campus dining hall you know where that extra money went.
 
On 10/15 PSSHE voted to continue the process of integrating Lock Haven, Bloomsburg and Mansfield into one educational unit in north central PA and Clarion, Edinboro and California into another unit in the west. This process is being driven by steep declines in enrollment and red ink due to the loss of tuition dollars. The result of the integration will likely be some sort of confederation focusing on cost cutting, program deletion and the consolidation of administrative functions as a way to save the affected institutions. Where athletics, particularly wrestling, fits into this picture is yet to be determined.
 
On 10/15 PSSHE voted to continue the process of integrating Lock Haven, Bloomsburg and Mansfield into one educational unit in north central PA and Clarion, Edinboro and California into another unit in the west. This process is being driven by steep declines in enrollment and red ink due to the loss of tuition dollars. The result of the integration will likely be some sort of confederation focusing on cost cutting, program deletion and the consolidation of administrative functions as a way to save the affected institutions. Where athletics, particularly wrestling, fits into this picture is yet to be determined.
I will bet that in five years, none of those schools will be closed, none of the assets sold, and administrative and educational salaries will suffer minimal cuts, while the bleeding continues.
 
I will bet that in five years, none of those schools will be closed, none of the assets sold, and administrative and educational salaries will suffer minimal cuts, while the bleeding continues.
I agree, they will just continue with the raising tuition and fees path. As long as student loans are given out like candy and not dischargeable in bankruptcy, colleges will not take any meaningful changes to address rising costs.

Colleges like to point out that X% of their students are either employed or in graduate school. Great, many students taking difficult to employ graduate programs with more student loans.

My daughter is interested in a BS/MS program in a medical field that requires a master's degree. On a recent college tour I asked the admissions counselor if the academic merit scholarship my daughter would get would also apply to graduate school (the 5th year), answer no. Next question, it is a big jump from the costs of the BS to the MS, how is that paid for, I was told to fill out the FAFSA which is loans. These colleges act like the loans do not have to be paid back.

The kids I coach, I make sure they understand that when reviewing the financial aid letter from colleges that they understand the loans have to be paid back with interest and they need to take that into account.
 
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I will bet that in five years, none of those schools will be closed, none of the assets sold, and administrative and educational salaries will suffer minimal cuts, while the bleeding continues.
That's a safe bet, especially considering that the "consolidation" plan amounts to specializing each school in certain areas. Which is not necessarily a bad plan, but calling it "consolidation" is a twist on words.
 
I will bet that in five years, none of those schools will be closed, none of the assets sold, and administrative and educational salaries will suffer minimal cuts, while the bleeding continues.

Unfortunately, more administration will probably be added. And yes, @El-Jefe , the Cal State and Cal schools are ridiculously bloated at the admin level across the board. Secondary and Elementary schools are almost as bad.
 
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Unfortunately, more administration will probably be added. And yes, @El-Jefe , the Cal State and Cal schools are ridiculously bloated at the admin level across the board. Secondary and Elementary schools are almost as bad.
Well, California. Regulate it until it stops, and then subsidize it.

Not that this is unique to California, and it probably goes a long way toward explaining admin bloat in higher education and many other industries.
 
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That's a safe bet, especially considering that the "consolidation" plan amounts to specializing each school in certain areas. Which is not necessarily a bad plan, but calling it "consolidation" is a twist on words.
I'm all about safety these days, including my bets. I considered that discussions about consolidation of those schools and their financial woes, has been going on for <at least> seven or eight years, ten?, fifteen?. Promises to "look into" cost-cutting measures have been empty. Let's face it: that crowd isn't playing with their own money.
 
If D1 goes down to only a handful of teams, then where would wrestlers go to wrestle? What has happened in other sports? Did club leagues arise, or did kids just mostly quit the sport?

Still have a little ways to go before wrestling becomes men's volleyball (23 D1 programs) or men's gymnastics (13 D1 programs). On the flip side, there are 61 D2 and 109 D3 wrestling programs. With D1 programs already choosing to not fund the full allotment of 9.9 scholarships, I wonder if at some point we see some D2 and even D3 programs compete in or with D1.
 
If D1 goes down to only a handful of teams, then where would wrestlers go to wrestle? What has happened in other sports? Did club leagues arise, or did kids just mostly quit the sport?

Division II and the NAIA is varsity, scholarship wrestling. There are currently 139 programs between the two divisions. There's 115 non-athletic scholarship teams in Division III (and growing). D3 can get creative with financial aid.

We need more D1 programs, but the sport is more than just the D1 programs. We currently have 422 men's varsity programs across all divisions.
 
Not sure where this fits in the discussion but figured it was worth mentioning. This is from 2018-19 which is the latest I could find: http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/composition-and-sport-sponsorship-ncaa-membership

Division I sport sponsorship has 21 men's championships (collegiate and Division I). Wrestling ranks 11th in sport sponsorship. It is the 12th highest sponsored men's sport across all three divisions added together (passed by lacrosse which outnumbered wrestling 248-109 at DIII level and 75-64 at DII.

You need at least 50 teams to have a Division championship or Collegiate championship for a men's sport (40 for women) so only lacrosse (74 teams) and Ice Hockey (60) have less sponsorship at the Division I level and are still able to hold a solely DI Championship. The other sports have to combine with divisions for a collegiate championship.
 
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If D1 goes down to only a handful of teams, then where would wrestlers go to wrestle? What has happened in other sports? Did club leagues arise, or did kids just mostly quit the sport?
It seems to me that Cael is already pointing towards some sort of RTC league. With USOC and private donations it might work. Unfortunately, the RTC approach squeezes out all the non-elite wrestlers who form the foundation for our sport. To work, an RTC league would have to provide various age tiers and help fund feeder clubs that could in turn have their own competitive networks. Continuing to tie wrestling to academic institutions may not be sustainable.
 
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