Franklin and managing expectations

[tboyer]

When I saw Franklin's remarks about "great" program becoming "elite", I got a little queasy because this team was clearly not great.

"Almost" beating Ohio State doesn't qualify as great. Almost losing to App State certainly doesn't make you great. Nor does being in serious trouble against Illinois (remember, this team was losing and looking really bad at the start of the 4th quarter at Champaign.)

Franklin is relentlessly upbeat and positive, and I think that's a good thing. But the bad side of it is that expectations get out of hand and fans aren't honest with themselves about the weaknesses. In fact people who talk about weaknesses just get belittled and shouted down on this board.

Coming into this season, we knew this team had depth and talent problems on the D-line and experience/talent problems at linebacker. Injuries and numerous suspensions made this problem a lot worse.

And now that PSU is hitting the meat of the schedule, with two losses (and really, deserving three losses), the team weakness is pretty clear. They are losing the battle on the line of scrimmage (on D for sure, but Saturday it was O as well), so to win in the B1G you have to be great away from the line of scrimmage, and they're not. They have the potential but they're not there.

Then you combine that with an offense that is simply underachieving (which is clearly Ricky Rahne's responsibility) and you don't have a great football team. Arguably you don't even have a good football team by PSU's standards.

The problem is, the teams' problems are numerous and nothing lends itself to a quick fix at this point.

So everybody needs to adjust expectations. This team will do well to go .500 in conference this year. I will be quite relieved if they beat Indiana -- that is looming as a very dangerous game at this point. Beat Indiana in Bloomington, and then see if they can physically compete with Iowa. Lose to Indiana and they are facing a real abyss this year.

The other point that I wanted to make is that you have to think long term. Franklin took this team to the Rose Bowl about 4 years ahead of schedule, that tells you what kind of a coach he is. But still the building of the program is a long-term proposition and you have to be patient.

Ricky Rahne may have gone to Cornell, he's clearly smart and hard working, but there is a ton that guy still needs to learn about offensive football and coaching at this level. Let's see if he can learn it over the next two seasons.

James Franklin is a fantastic coach but he is still young and new on this kind of stage. He will be a much better coach in two years than he is today, and I look forward to seeing him continue to grow and get better.

Just keep that in mind as we continue what is going to probably be a pretty painful season.

 

[danvillenit]

Very well stated.

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

He is a master motivator when he has an underdog program which he inherited here and what he came from. The roles have changed and now he has to learn to motivate these guys that every week is the other teams super bowl and they are going give you everything you could want and more. App State did, Pitt and Illinois did for as long as they could, Michigan state did. It is different having the pressure of being expected to win vs rallying the guys when you aren’t. He is a smart guy and will be able to do this with more experience but it is much different and it is much tougher being the hunted every week.

 

[danvillenit]

The last game vs MSU is really the first game he has lost that on paper we should have won since the turnaround in 2016. USC had s good team with the #1 draft pick, OSU and MSU both had very good teams last year on the road, and OSU is a likely playoff team this year.

Yes we should have beaten MSU but the program is great shape.

 

[dbsteel]

Right- I felt the same way. This program is good, but its nowhere near great. And not close to elite. That kind of comment sounds stupid, especially after a loss like this.

He needs to tone it down.

 

[tboyer]

Right- I felt the same way. This program is good, but its nowhere near great. And not close to elite. That kind of comment sounds stupid, especially after a loss like this.

He needs to tone it down.

It's funny, I was just saying to my Dad the other day, I couldn't even remember a time where I felt Franklin had mishandled a public comment. The guy is just amazing with his communication skills. But I think he got this one wrong.

After tOSU He couldn't have been trying to parse great vs. elite or whatever, he should have been talking frankly about how much the team had to do to get ready for Michigan State. Not that they didn't prepare, I'm sure they prepared plenty, but you don't be talking about elite the week before you have a team coming into town that beat you last year, not with a team that has some obvious deficiencies.

 

[kentuckycb]

It's funny, I was just saying to my Dad the other day, I couldn't even remember a time where I felt Franklin had mishandled a public comment. The guy is just amazing with his communication skills. But I think he got this one wrong.

After tOSU He couldn't have been trying to parse great vs. elite or whatever, he should have been talking frankly about how much the team had to do to get ready for Michigan State. Not that they didn't prepare, I'm sure they prepared plenty, but you don't be talking about elite the week before you have a team coming into town that beat you last year, not with a team that has some obvious deficiencies.

I think that he was talking to the recruits and parents with that statement. And they really are the most important audience.

 

[PSUSignore]

While many of your points are true, I consider back to back 11 win seasons both with a final ranking in the top 10 to be great. Elite would be a top 4 finish and invite to the playoff. If you read a lot into his comments of course you can be critical but on the surface he wasn't wrong.

 

[Mudge1026]

It's funny, I was just saying to my Dad the other day, I couldn't even remember a time where I felt Franklin had mishandled a public comment. The guy is just amazing with his communication skills. But I think he got this one wrong.

After tOSU He couldn't have been trying to parse great vs. elite or whatever, he should have been talking frankly about how much the team had to do to get ready for Michigan State. Not that they didn't prepare, I'm sure they prepared plenty, but you don't be talking about elite the week before you have a team coming into town that beat you last year, not with a team that has some obvious deficiencies.

Great Program, Good team

There’s a distinction, some are conflating the two.

 

[Mudge1026]

While many of your points are true, I consider back to back 11 win seasons both with a final ranking in the top 10 to be great. Elite would be a top 4 finish and invite to the playoff. If you read a lot into his comments of course you can be critical but on the surface he wasn't wrong.

You are more than right. Back to back 11 win, Top Ten finishes is the mark of a great program.

 

[Nittany_93]

Franklin can recruit lights out, and he knows how to identify talent.

I think the reason the teams have been "ahead of schedule" is that he's also a great motivator. He's getting players to give 110% and out hustle the competition, in practice ss well as in the game.

The missing piece is execution which also relates to fundamentals. It's "the little things" that they're referring to. Eliminate even a fraction of those costly mistakes and half of those losses are wins. He's close but the last pieces are proving elusive, or difficult to put together.

He is a master motivator when he has an underdog program which he inherited here and what he came from. The roles have changed and now he has to learn to motivate these guys that every week is the other teams super bowl and they are going give you everything you could want and more. App State did, Pitt and Illinois did for as long as they could, Michigan state did. It is different having the pressure of being expected to win vs rallying the guys when you aren’t. He is a smart guy and will be able to do this with more experience but it is much different and it is much tougher being the hunted every week.

 

[danvillenit]

I am sure the MSU game was a major disappointment and somewhat shocking for CJF. I think he really believed the team was making incremental progress each game and would continue to do so. They clearly took a step backwards Saturday.

 

[Obliviax]

I admire him. You can't be the best unless you aspire to be the best. If you want to be Alabama, you have to plan to be Alabama. His expectations are to win national championships. I don't have a problem with him setting that expectation internally and externally.

 

[jimjim47]

I admire him. You can't be the best unless you aspire to be the best. If you want to be Alabama, you have to plan to be Alabama. His expectations are to win national championships. I don't have a problem with him setting that expectation internally and externally.

LOL. Franklin is all talk and horrible in tight games at decision making. He is "slick" when it comes to recruiting. "plan to be Alabama" talk about delusional.

 

[Lion8286]

LOL. Franklin is all talk and horrible in tight games at decision making. He is "slick" when it comes to recruiting. "plan to be Alabama" talk about delusional.

How about this great decision making in a tight game by Hairball?? All talk. . .no results. More concerned about Paris trips than being Alabama.

 

[PSU.:.]

It's in great shape unless they lose to Mich,wisy,Iowa and maybe Indiana. Rough road

 

[81b&w]

He is "slick" when it comes to recruiting. "plan to be Alabama" talk about delusional.

slick as in a very good dresser? great speaker? well educated? great recruiter? well organized? well connected? well respected?... so far, your coach might be in one of those catagories and I could have listed a whole bunch more
and what team wouldn't want to be Alabama? It's a little harder when you have ethics and are concerned about education, no swipe at Michigan there, just a goal every team has?

 

[michnittlion]

He is a master motivator when he has an underdog program which he inherited here and what he came from. The roles have changed and now he has to learn to motivate these guys that every week is the other teams super bowl and they are going give you everything you could want and more. App State did, Pitt and Illinois did for as long as they could, Michigan state did. It is different having the pressure of being expected to win vs rallying the guys when you aren’t. He is a smart guy and will be able to do this with more experience but it is much different and it is much tougher being the hunted every week.

I completely disagree with this.

How come CJF has such a subpar record when coming off of losses (i.e., when a team is facing adversity and needs someone to motivate them)?

How come CJF has, for a second consecutive year, let the OSU loss become 2 losses?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to be mentally tougher?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to close out games in the 4th quarter, and play confidently instead of scared?

 

[Lion8286]

I completely disagree with this.

How come CJF has such a subpar record when coming off of losses (i.e., when a team is facing adversity and needs someone to motivate them)?

How come CJF has, for a second consecutive year, let the OSU loss become 2 losses?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to be mentally tougher?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to close out games in the 4th quarter, and play confidently instead of scared?

How come Hairball can't beat Ohio State or Michigan State? L O S E R

 

[fastlax16]

I admire him. You can't be the best unless you aspire to be the best. If you want to be Alabama, you have to plan to be Alabama. His expectations are to win national championships. I don't have a problem with him setting that expectation internally and externally.

So you think the team is coming up short of their expectations?

 

[blion72]

I completely disagree with this.

How come CJF has such a subpar record when coming off of losses (i.e., when a team is facing adversity and needs someone to motivate them)?

How come CJF has, for a second consecutive year, let the OSU loss become 2 losses?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to be mentally tougher?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to close out games in the 4th quarter, and play confidently instead of scared?

JF does not have assistants anywhere close to the major programs. he gets a lot of up and comers, not been there guys. this shows in close games.

 

[81b&w]

So you think the team is coming up short of their expectations?

Probably not near as much as you'd like them to, your agenda is pathetic

 

[fairfaxlion2]

These message boards are starting to remind me of the old days, pre-2011.

 

[harjeff]

You are more than right. Back to back 11 win, Top Ten finishes is the mark of a great program.

Exactly ....how many programs can say the over the last 10 years. Alabama, OSU and Clemson..that is about it in my mind as everyone else comes and goes. PSU is on the cusp of coming and staying. Just need to develop some more depth and get some more athletes in the system.

Don't forget we lost several KEY players to injury/retirement just before the season started.

 

[PSU_Chicago]

CJF probably should have told everyone the truth ... we lost a lot of great players and that this is a rebuilding year.

Keep recruiting James. In the majority of the games the Jimmys and the Joes beat the the Xs and the Os.

And stay away from the crazy fan base.

 

[Obliviax]

One thing that is interesting is that the 3 & out rules in college football have actually helped the elite programs. Teams like AL and tOSU get a full 25 kids every year, which dilutes what second tier teams can recruit. It has created a never ending pipleline. You want to go the the NFL and play for championships? There are three schools that you are just about guaranteed to if you start: tOSU, AL, Clemson. GA right behind. Once in a while you can sub in a USC or Michigan...but if you want to be an NFL superstar and you get a 'ship offer from AL, hard to pass that up.

 

[fastlax16]

Probably not near as much as you'd like them to, your agenda is pathetic

What?

 

[psugisher]

I completely disagree with this.

How come CJF has such a subpar record when coming off of losses (i.e., when a team is facing adversity and needs someone to motivate them)?

How come CJF has, for a second consecutive year, let the OSU loss become 2 losses?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to be mentally tougher?

How come CJF cannot motivate his teams to close out games in the 4th quarter, and play confidently instead of scared?

Overcoming adversity isn't necessarily a one game thing.. 2016, PSU loses to Pitt and gets demolished by Michigan. Team comes together, wins 9 games in a row including the B1G championship game. Coach should get a ton of credit. 2017, PSU loses two heartbreakers on the road. Team rolls the rest of the season and wins the Fiesta Bowl. Again, coach deserves a ton of credit. The last two years, his teams have overcome a ton of adversity. The challenge is again in front of him this year. Every year and every situation is different. This year can still be a great year. Franklin has had his teams playing their best the last two years so hopefully that trend continues.

The last two seasons have been great years. Franklin wants elite years so that means beating OSU half the time or more and being in the conference championship game and playoff regularly. We could easily be 6-0 at this point but we're not and that's what Franklin needs to figure out.. why we're not 6-0. Not many teams are good enough to have two score leads in the 4th quarter vs OSU in consecutive years so we're damn close. Just not there yet. And having those expectations where they are will also lead to a ton of criticism when the extremely high expectations aren't met. I hate losing these late leads but I hate being non-competitive and being hopeless a lot more.

 

[Roswell-Blue]

It's in great shape unless they lose to Mich,wisy,Iowa and maybe Indiana. Rough road

Like danvillenit perfectly said in his above statement, CJF had to have been shocked by his team's performance. That he expected to win, it was a major disappointment, and team "took a step back". So what does one do when a team shows you they are not who you thought they were or where they were? I'm sure CJF has seen this before. The team is hurting and wounded. At this point everything hinges on getting a win at Indiana. They can't afford another step backwards.

 

[danvillenit]

I think this has similarities to the Temple game in 2015 although from a different level of team. He thought they were on the right track and was forced to reevaluate. Imo it was the end of Donovan and led to Moorhead and McSorley. I’m guessing there will be some changes made that may or may not be visible to the fans.

 

[grinagrin]

I love Franklin and think all this “Fire Franklin” talk is absurd, but I think he needs to re-evaluate a few of his assistants after the season. I’m sorry this is a cut throat business and he can’t let loyalty get in his way if he’s thinking of making changes.

Also, did you guys notice that in the presser after the game he seemed to indirectly call out some players and coaches about the mistakes they made. I don’t think I’ve seen him do that before. Just like after the OSU game you could tell in his face he was upset (obviously) and looks like pressure is getting to him a bit.

I hope he can turn this around easily because I’d hate to lose him as our HC.

 

[Grant Green]

I think he was referring more to the program in general and not this specific team. We were average when he took over and became great in 2016-2017. Now the program needs to take the next step to be elite - like perennial top 5 to 10.

IMO, great teams are top 10 to 15 (that represents the top 10% of all FBS teams) and this program is definitely that.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I think he was referring more to the program in general and not this specific team. We were average when he took over and became great in 2016-2017. Now the program needs to take the next step to be elite - like perennial top 5 to 10.

IMO, great teams are top 10 to 15 (that represents the top 10% of all FBS teams) and this program is definitely that.

For better or worse, I appreciate that after a tough loss, Franklin said to RAISE expectations (after tOSU) - not lower them. I trust he'll figure out what it takes to get there.

 

[PennState_one]

I love my Penn State, but I also realize that it doesn't have any direct effect on my life. I watch for the fun, and it's never been the end of the world to me if PSU wins, loses, plays good, or plays bad.

That is how I manage "MY" expectations year in and year out. Don't get me wrong, I still follow the crap out of them.

Optimism is a virtue...

 

[PSUHarry33]

I think we just lack leadership on the team. When your best players aren't necessarily your more senior players it creates a leadership vacuum. Trace is a leader no doubt, but after that, who do we got? And more specifically who would you call the leader on defense?

I really wonder what the internal team chemistry is all about.

 

[PSUHarry33]

Look at what happen to Georgia this week. Similar situation, good young talent on this years team after losing some major pieces last year. It finally caught up with them. It's going to happen.

There were signs early on with PSU but we got some breaks and Trace pulled us through. Hard to have that happen every time.

I love this team and think the future is bright.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I admire him. You can't be the best unless you aspire to be the best. If you want to be Alabama, you have to plan to be Alabama. His expectations are to win national championships. I don't have a problem with him setting that expectation internally and externally.

Agreed. And besides, you don’t pull in top recruits and fill a 107k seat stadium by managing expectations.

 

[NittanyOpp]

Two items to note:

Just because someone goes to an Ivy League school, doesnt mean they are a genius when it comes to coaching football or calling plays.

We lost games the last 2 years prior in similar fashion to the last two games of this year. Joe Moorhead was our OC.

It falls on the head coach, who I do want to stay coach and whom we should not fire as some have suggested. Last week's performance was beyond pathetic in many aspects of the game. Just like last year, after the OSU game the team was depressed and lacked any motivation. This year it was at home for homecoming and off a bye. Thats on JF.

 

[AWS1022]

It's funny, I was just saying to my Dad the other day, I couldn't even remember a time where I felt Franklin had mishandled a public comment. The guy is just amazing with his communication skills. But I think he got this one wrong.

After tOSU He couldn't have been trying to parse great vs. elite or whatever, he should have been talking frankly about how much the team had to do to get ready for Michigan State. Not that they didn't prepare, I'm sure they prepared plenty, but you don't be talking about elite the week before you have a team coming into town that beat you last year, not with a team that has some obvious deficiencies.

I think it depends on where you set the bar. If he’s considering Bama, OSU, Clemson, GA and a few others as elite, then yes, the last couple of years we have been a great program. What other programs have accomplished what PSU has in the last two years? There aren’t many so those would have to be in the great category. I think too many are reading too much into what he said. It was an emotional time to answer that question. Like some of the guys on ESPN radio were saying, what else was he supposed to say? We’re an average program?

 

[AWS1022]

Two items to note:

Just because someone goes to an Ivy League school, doesnt mean they are a genius when it comes to coaching football or calling plays.

We lost games the last 2 years prior in similar fashion to the last two games of this year. Joe Moorhead was our OC.

It falls on the head coach, who I do want to stay coach and whom we should not fire as some have suggested. Last week's performance was beyond pathetic in many aspects of the game. Just like last year, after the OSU game the team was depressed and lacked any motivation. This year it was at home for homecoming and off a bye. Thats on JF.

Here’s a novel idea...maybe it falls onto the players. A coach can only do so much. If the coach puts you in a position to win the game, and you don’t, that’s on you not the coach. When I played sports, I never blamed a coach for a loss especially when me and my teammates made a bunch of mistakes. Maybe it’s not politically correct to put the responsibility on the players nowadays, but they have to make plays to win. Hold onto the game clinching INT for example.