FC/OT: Hack waived....

[sluggo72]

Camp arm, nothing else. His NFL window has closed. Options now are the CFL, and Arena League, if he wants to continue pursuing football from a playing standpoint.

Frankly, it isn't going to happen and the reasons are purely technical: He has no accuracy, cannot see the field, cannot read defenses, has poor mechanics, cannot throw a screen pass even.

The good news: He has a Penn State education, and is an outstanding, clean, young man with a good head on his shoulder, and could succeed life elsewhere, possibly coaching. He will have endorsements from Bill O'Brien and Ricky Rahne

Camp arm? Well camp arms that are on the practice squad make $7600 per week over 16 weeks thats $121,600 per year. Actually his NFL window is just opening, someone has pointed out he is still only 22 (?), the age some of the top draft choices are now and havent taken a snap. Now he can go somewhere, with no pressure on him, and none on the team, if it works, it works, and if not, he's on the practice squad running the other teams plays for a few years. The last 2 places he needs to be is the CFL or the Arena league, neither of who's style fit his game.
I do not understand the 'hate' for CH, I dont understand why people root against him in his bid to make the NFL. If he makes it in the NFL, it will be nothing but good for the PSU.

 

[LoyalandTrueLion]

Funny, then, that Franklin's staff continues to invite him back for games and to stand on the sidelines.

That is the lettermans club. All the players have to do is call up and they get their sideline pass. It has always been like that. Its not an invite from the staff.

 

[WPB_lion]

View embedded media

Look at what Trace McSorley was able to do with the same offensive line, the same offensive system in the 2nd half of the Tax Slayer Bowl against the #1 Pass Defense in the country that year. Almost led a comeback for the win, drove the team up and down the field, threw touchdown passes. That's as the backup QB with probably 1/10th the reps that Hack was getting. Hack did nothing while he was in the game.

That wasn't a great offensive system, that was a bad offensive line, but the offense was made worse by Hack. If McSorley had started that entire year, we would have probably scored 10 more points per game.

Everyone wanted to point the finger at everything and everyone else but Hack - Franklin, the offensive line, the OC, etc. All weren't good, but Hack was just as bad. And still is. Hell, I read people bashing the Jets here, that's the reason Hack struggled.

Lets begin with the fact that McSorley is the most resourceful QB PSU has ever had and arguably the best PSU QB of all time. Comparing unfavorably with the arguably the best QB in PSU history does not make Hackenberg a bad QB. The list of former PSU QBs that compare favorably to McSorley is not a long list.

McSorley's game is definitely a better fit than Hackenberg's game for the offense Franklin was and is running and McSorley's game is definitely a better fit for a team with a horrible offensive line. Hackenberg does not have the natural presence in the pocket that McSorley has. Hackenberg took a lot of sacks that McSorley would not have taken. IMO, Hackenberg's main weakness is that he doesn't deal well with pressure. I can not think of a worse supporting cast than the PSU Offense in Franklin's first 2 years for a QB that does not react well to pressure.

Hackenberg may not be an NFL QB, but he was certainly a decent College QB who had a horrible supporting cast in his last 2 years of College.

 

[Nitt1300]

Camp arm? Well camp arms that are on the practice squad make $7600 per week over 16 weeks thats $121,600 per year. Actually his NFL window is just opening, someone has pointed out he is still only 22 (?), the age some of the top draft choices are now and havent taken a snap. Now he can go somewhere, with no pressure on him, and none on the team, if it works, it works, and if not, he's on the practice squad running the other teams plays for a few years. The last 2 places he needs to be is the CFL or the Arena league, neither of who's style fit his game.
I do not understand the 'hate' for CH, I dont understand why people root against him in his bid to make the NFL. If he makes it in the NFL, it will be nothing but good for the PSU.

I don't think many people are rooting against him, it's just that after what we saw with his accuracy issues in college and what we've heard from his time in NY, it looked like he was getting a last chance in Oakland with a coach who had expressed a fair amount of interest in him. That that chance only lasted a couple of weeks speaks volumes.

 

[WPB_lion]

Camp arm? Well camp arms that are on the practice squad make $7600 per week over 16 weeks thats $121,600 per year. Actually his NFL window is just opening, someone has pointed out he is still only 22 (?), the age some of the top draft choices are now and havent taken a snap. Now he can go somewhere, with no pressure on him, and none on the team, if it works, it works, and if not, he's on the practice squad running the other teams plays for a few years. The last 2 places he needs to be is the CFL or the Arena league, neither of who's style fit his game.
I do not understand the 'hate' for CH, I dont understand why people root against him in his bid to make the NFL. If he makes it in the NFL, it will be nothing but good for the PSU.

Does being on a practice squad for a year qualify as a year in the NFL for qualification for NFL pension purposes?

 

[sluggo72]

Does being on a practice squad for a year qualify as a year in the NFL for qualification for NFL pension purposes?

I do not believe it does. In theory practice squads are a week to week thing, I believe you have to be on the 53 man roster for x # of weeks for it to count as a year of service.

The NFL's current pension plan applies to players who have had at least one credited season since 1993. Each season credit that a player earns adds a certain amount to his eventual monthly pension payment. Players are credited for a full season if they are on the active roster, injured reserve or physically unable to perform (PUP) list for at least three games during the regular season. Players can begin receiving this monthly pension when they reach age 55.


so to that end I believe Hack has 2 yrs credited toward a pension. You dont have to be on the 45 for game day, just the 53 man roster, which he has been for 2 yrs.

 

[ram2020]

View embedded media

Look at what Trace McSorley was able to do with the same offensive line, the same offensive system in the 2nd half of the Tax Slayer Bowl against the #1 Pass Defense in the country that year. Almost led a comeback for the win, drove the team up and down the field, threw touchdown passes. That's as the backup QB with probably 1/10th the reps that Hack was getting. Hack did nothing while he was in the game.

That wasn't a great offensive system, that was a bad offensive line, but the offense was made worse by Hack. If McSorley had started that entire year, we would have probably scored 10 more points per game.

Everyone wanted to point the finger at everything and everyone else but Hack - Franklin, the offensive line, the OC, etc. All weren't good, but Hack was just as bad. And still is. Hell, I read people bashing the Jets here, that's the reason Hack struggled.

It's emblematic of our society, blame others and deflect. It's CJF's fault, the offensive line, the Jets fault, the Raiders fault, Donovan. The list goes on and on for a QB that could not complete SIMPLE WR screens and intermediate passes with ANY accuracy. Good kid and all that(although I have some questions about some petulance I noticed during his time), but just a plain to see bad QB. I am totally fine with people standing up for him as a person and Penn State guy, but the arguments about his ability and talent being anything but sub par are wearing thin.

 

[Art]

Does being on a practice squad for a year qualify as a year in the NFL for qualification for NFL pension purposes?

Nope.

 

[Obliviax]

No, Hack is to blame too - he just never evolved the way we thought he would. McSorley is clearly the better QB and that showed in the TaxSlayer Bowl. His intangibles and decision making are superior to Hack's and CJF did him a solid I think by allowing him to continue to start. As for the TaxSlayer Bowl, I think Hack was checked out early on; he probably tries to continue to play with that injury any other game.

lets tap the brakes a little. \GA prepped for a slow, pocket passer and played a soft defense to boot in the 4th qtr. (being up by 21 at the end of the 3rd qtr) We see that all the time in college and pro. At the same time, Trace ended up being 14 of 27 for 141 yards. Hack had 139 yards passing (8 of 14). Where Trace did excel was he had 33 yards rushing (back to a GA D prepped to stop a pocket passer, but he is simply a better runner as well).

But lets take that year...because it was NOT the same offensive line as Trace had the next year.

Going into the season, the starters were:
Godwin, SO
Hamilton, SO
Thompkins, Fr
Gesicki, SO (who had at least six key drops that year)
LT Paris Palmer Jr.
LG Mahon, SO
C Mangiro, Sr.
RG Gaia, Jr.
RT Nelson, SO
RB, Lynch Jr

So we had 5 starting So, two on the OL plus Palmer who was simply awful and didn't last the season. What changed that year was the emergence of Barkley. As a true Fr, he didn't play against Temple (1 carry) and got dinged up against SD St. The team went 5-2 (losses to Temple and Ohio State) and then lost four in a row (NW, UM, MSU, Ga). These are hardly shameful losses and teams adjusted to Barkley who averaged 90 yards rushing in those games.

So, moving from 16 to 17 (hack to trace), we have:

• totally different offensive scheme
• new OC
• A physically improved and settled Barkley who stays healthy the entire year (true Fr to So)
• All of those So moving to Jrs, a huge difference in college ball
• And the OL went from (going into both seasons before injuries)
  • LT Palmer to Mahon
  • LG Mahon to Bates
  • C Mangiro to Gaia
  • RG Gaia to Dowrey
  • RT Nelson to Nelson

If that isn't a sea change on offense, I don't know what is.

 

[Obliviax]

That is the lettermans club. All the players have to do is call up and they get their sideline pass. It has always been like that. Its not an invite from the staff.

OK, but if CJF didn't want or invite him, he wouldn't be there. At the same time, I've seen them warmly greet eachother....my point stands.

 

[Locolion]

Ouch.

View embedded media

Personally, I love and respect Christian Hackenberg, committed to Penn State during a dark year and kept his word. He’s a young guy with honor, integrity and character. His early years started the train back to where we are with recruiting today. Don’t tear him down. Let’s support one of the family. Christian can come work for me anytime.

 

[BBG65]

Despite showing promise a freshman, Hack was a lousy QB at Penn State. He was extremely inaccurate, didn't have a feel for the game and played extremely slow. Many of us were shocked when the Jets took him in the 2nd rd. and it turned out the Jets were wrong, very wrong. This isn't a big diss of Hack as he has plenty of company at not being a good D1/pro QB. The reason Penn State fans take some satisfaction in seeing him fail is that the media and others blamed Franklin and the coaches for his lack of performance when it was obvious to us that wasn't the case. It's not Hack's fault for that, he did his best and it just wasn't there.

 

[Obliviax]

Despite showing promise a freshman, Hack was a lousy QB at Penn State. He was extremely inaccurate, didn't have a feel for the game and played extremely slow. Many of us were shocked when the Jets took him in the 2nd rd. and it turned out the Jets were wrong, very wrong. This isn't a big diss of Hack as he has plenty of company at not being a good D1/pro QB. The reason Penn State fans take some satisfaction in seeing him fail is that the media and others blamed Franklin and the coaches for his lack of performance when it was obvious to us that wasn't the case. It's not Hack's fault for that, he did his best and it just wasn't there.

Agree....but Franklin did fire the OC before the smoke cleared after the final gun of the last regular season game (and before the bowl).

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

lets tap the brakes a little. \GA prepped for a slow, pocket passer and played a soft defense to boot in the 4th qtr. (being up by 21 at the end of the 3rd qtr) We see that all the time in college and pro. At the same time, Trace ended up being 14 of 27 for 141 yards. Hack had 139 yards passing (8 of 14). Where Trace did excel was he had 33 yards rushing (back to a GA D prepped to stop a pocket passer, but he is simply a better runner as well).

But lets take that year...because it was NOT the same offensive line as Trace had the next year.

Going into the season, the starters were:
Godwin, SO
Hamilton, SO
Thompkins, Fr
Gesicki, SO (who had at least six key drops that year)
LT Paris Palmer Jr.
LG Mahon, SO
C Mangiro, Sr.
RG Gaia, Jr.
RT Nelson, SO
RB, Lynch Jr

So we had 5 starting So, two on the OL plus Palmer who was simply awful and didn't last the season. What changed that year was the emergence of Barkley. As a true Fr, he didn't play against Temple (1 carry) and got dinged up against SD St. The team went 5-2 (losses to Temple and Ohio State) and then lost four in a row (NW, UM, MSU, Ga). These are hardly shameful losses and teams adjusted to Barkley who averaged 90 yards rushing in those games.

So, moving from 16 to 17 (hack to trace), we have:

• totally different offensive scheme
• new OC
• A physically improved and settled Barkley who stays healthy the entire year (true Fr to So)
• All of those So moving to Jrs, a huge difference in college ball
• And the OL went from (going into both seasons before injuries)
  • LT Palmer to Mahon
  • LG Mahon to Bates
  • C Mangiro to Gaia
  • RG Gaia to Dowrey
  • RT Nelson to Nelson

If that isn't a sea change on offense, I don't know what is.

I wasn’t commenting specifically on 15-16; just 15 and the bowl game.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Personally, I love and respect Christian Hackenberg, committed to Penn State during a dark year and kept his word. He’s a young guy with honor, integrity and character. His early years started the train back to where we are with recruiting today. Don’t tear him down. Let’s support one of the family. Christian can come work for me anytime.

Also a big Hack fan - I think it sucks for him and hope he catches on somewhere.

 

[Obliviax]

I wasn’t commenting specifically on 16-17; just 16 and the bowl game.

i was referring to the previous comment, not yours, that it was the same offensive line (or team for that matter). That is simply not true by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[michnittlion]

i was referring to the previous comment, not yours, that it was the same offensive line (or team for that matter). That is simply not true by any stretch of the imagination.

This will sound harsh, but I'm pretty sure Hack would have brought down that 2016 team. I don't have good images when imagining Hack in the Pittsburgh and Michigan games (where we got down big early).

McSorley has ALWAYS been a gamer. Even when it was 49-10 against Michigan, he (and Barkley and the rest of the team) were still hustling and caring.

That, more than anything else, was the thing that annoyed me about Hack. When things got tougher, he didn't respond positively.

 

[Obliviax]

This will sound harsh, but I'm pretty sure Hack would have brought down that 2016 team. I don't have good images when imagining Hack in the Pittsburgh and Michigan games (where we got down big early).

McSorley has ALWAYS been a gamer. Even when it was 49-10 against Michigan, he (and Barkley and the rest of the team) were still hustling and caring.

That, more than anything else, was the thing that annoyed me about Hack. When things got tougher, he didn't respond positively.

I don't disagree with that. McC has incredible pocket awareness and seems to make great decisions. (although his throw at the end of the Pitt game, as well as USC, were horrible). Trace is the perfect fit for Moorhead's offense (and it is great to have the best overall RB in college football two years running)

 

[Mister Magoo]

Saw this pic of Hack attached to an article about his release. Does he appear to
gripping the football more on the backend than others? I googled a pic of Brady
throwing a football. He seems to have his grip more towards middle of ball.
I just think Hack's grip looks odd.

 

[BobPSU92]

Saw this pic of Hack attached to an article about his release. Does he appear to
gripping the football more on the backend than others? I googled a pic of Brady
throwing a football. He seems to have his grip more towards middle of ball.
I just think Hack's grip looks odd.

You have to account for fact that brady's balls are deflated. Hackenberg plays with firmer balls.

 

[Judge Smails]

You have to account for fact that brady's balls are deflated. Hackenberg plays with firmer balls.

 

[tboyer]

I will always be a Hack fan. He was a PSU footballer in the best sense of the word. By coming to PSU, and the way he played his freshman year, and by the way he carried himself his entire career at PSU, he helped keep the flame alive through the Sandusky disaster and sanctions.

Very very tough guy, gave it his best, he showed tremendous character when PSU didn't have enough bodies on the OL and Hack was getting pounded every play.

It's super unfair to compare him to McSorley who I think is the best QB we've seen at PSU. Hack looks bad in comparison but in fact he was a very good college QB who would have had a great career behind a solid OL.

That said, I hope and trust that PSU will never recruit another QB like Hack. Mobility is just too important with the speed of college defenses and hyper-aggressive defenses. QBs have to be able to scramble and improvise.

As for the NFL, for all the media coverage in NY I don't think it's really been made clear, what is the thing or things that Hack can't do? Is it throwing accuracy -- that should be fixable. But if it's mental, if it's the ability to go through 6 progressions in 2 seconds, well not everybody can do that. Hack is obviously an intelligent person but not all intelligent people have the right kind of brain to be NFL QBs.

Anyway I hope if it's just throwing accuracy, he's got time, he can work on it. He's still a young guy and he wouldn't be the first QB to become successful in the NFL after failing a few times.

 

[LongJakk]

Is it too late to hook on with a CFL team?

 

[CF LION]

Saw this pic of Hack attached to an article about his release. Does he appear to
gripping the football more on the backend than others? I googled a pic of Brady
throwing a football. He seems to have his grip more towards middle of ball.
I just think Hack's grip looks odd.

Terry Bradshaw used to put his index finger on the tip of the ball when he threw it. Worked for him.

 

[Frabjous]

Is it too late to hook on with a CFL team?

Throw Christian to the BC Lions.

 

[Nitt1300]

Is it too late to hook on with a CFL team?

are there any slow, immobile QBs in the CFL?

 

[jerot]

Throw Christian to the BC Lions.

!!!

 

[jerot]

are there any slow, immobile QBs in the CFL?

Could be.

 

[jerot]

I will always be a Hack fan. He was a PSU footballer in the best sense of the word. By coming to PSU, and the way he played his freshman year, and by the way he carried himself his entire career at PSU, he helped keep the flame alive through the Sandusky disaster and sanctions.

Very very tough guy, gave it his best, he showed tremendous character when PSU didn't have enough bodies on the OL and Hack was getting pounded every play.

It's super unfair to compare him to McSorley who I think is the best QB we've seen at PSU. Hack looks bad in comparison but in fact he was a very good college QB who would have had a great career behind a solid OL.

That said, I hope and trust that PSU will never recruit another QB like Hack. Mobility is just too important with the speed of college defenses and hyper-aggressive defenses. QBs have to be able to scramble and improvise.

As for the NFL, for all the media coverage in NY I don't think it's really been made clear, what is the thing or things that Hack can't do? Is it throwing accuracy -- that should be fixable. But if it's mental, if it's the ability to go through 6 progressions in 2 seconds, well not everybody can do that. Hack is obviously an intelligent person but not all intelligent people have the right kind of brain to be NFL QBs.

Anyway I hope if it's just throwing accuracy, he's got time, he can work on it. He's still a young guy and he wouldn't be the first QB to become successful in the NFL after failing a few times.

I'm thinking Unitas.

 

[Obliviax]

are there any slow, immobile QBs in the CFL?

there is a guy who shows promise...his name is Tom Brady.

 

[sluggo72]

there is a guy who shows promise...his name is Tom Brady.

that Brady guy, is he playing in the CFL?

 

[Ranger Dan]

He was never the QB "HE" & his parents thought he was!

Period.

Nope, I completely disagree... look at his rookie year under BOB. He wasn't NFL ready, but he had a ton of potential to build upon.

 

[dbsteel]

As some of us have pointed out, it seems like he just does not have "it."

For whatever reason, he lacks the talent necessary to be a field general at the NFL level. Occasionally being able to sling the ball doesn't cut it. It just gets you cut, if that is all you've got.

I do not get the folks who constantly insist that he "has the talent." Pure BS.

Right. The guy clearly doesn't have the talent. There are a thousand guys with big arms who can't sniff the NFL.

 

[Obliviax]

Right. The guy clearly doesn't have the talent. There are a thousand guys with big arms who can't sniff the NFL.

yeah....the NFL loves big arms because you can't coach that. But, and Trace is a perfect example; decision making, footwork, mobility, pocket sense, ability to keep your eyes up when scrambling, accuracy, timing...

 

[kgilbert78]

This will sound harsh, but I'm pretty sure Hack would have brought down that 2016 team. I don't have good images when imagining Hack in the Pittsburgh and Michigan games (where we got down big early).

McSorley has ALWAYS been a gamer. Even when it was 49-10 against Michigan, he (and Barkley and the rest of the team) were still hustling and caring.

That, more than anything else, was the thing that annoyed me about Hack. When things got tougher, he didn't respond positively.

My brother and I (he's class of 82) have a firm rule. Don't boo the kids. Pros? That's a different story (I am, after all, from Philly). But the one time I'm tempted to make an exception (just tempted) is when the team quits. I can handle getting beat bad (even 63-14) when the kids don't quit.

 

[michnittlion]

My brother and I (he's class of 82) have a firm rule. Don't boo the kids. Pros? That's a different story (I am, after all, from Philly). But the one time I'm tempted to make an exception (just tempted) is when the team quits. I can handle getting beat bad (even 63-14) when the kids don't quit.

I agree with you.

I was "lucky" enough to have attended both 63-14 (Ohio State) and 49-10 (Michigan). We were whooped both times. But the team didn't quit in either game. I was happy to see that.

I also attended 55-16 (the 2015 finale against Michigan State). We quit in that one. I didn't boo, but I definitely vented when Koa Farmer couldn't be bothered to catch the kickoff, and the offensive lineman scored a touchdown on the very next play. SHOW SOME DAMN PRIDE GUYS!

I don't think they heard me from the upper deck, though

(getting back to Hackenberg: part of the reasons the Farmer and offensive lineman play occurred is because Hackenberg threw a pick-six immediately prior and didn't even TRY to make a tackle on the play. When your QB quits, the team often does too.)

 

[Sproul]

OK, but if CJF didn't want or invite him, he wouldn't be there. At the same time, I've seen them warmly greet eachother....my point stands.

That’s not how it works. You’re still wrong.

 

[Obliviax]

That’s not how it works. You’re still wrong.

your telling me that if CJF didn't want him on the sideline they'd invite him anyway? In addition, CJF would have an obligation to give him a hug?

Sorry, not buying what you are selling. I don't doubt you are quoting chapter and verse, but if CJF didn't want him on the sideline, he wouldn't be there.

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

There are some god-awful QB's in the NFL and many of them will never do anything more than hold a clipboard. So on some level it is surprising that Hack apparently will not even be on a practice squad.

He cannot throw with accuracy. Not even the shorter patterns. Sorry, but it is what it is. Again, he has a PSU degree, and is a great, GREAT kid. He's going to be just fine. You won't see him at the food bank.

Here is something off the Hack topic to also note: I ran into someone I know today at an area restaurant, and she informed me that her son just moved into a posh, Manhattan residence, with a very high paying and impressive first job, working for the Michigan alumni.

That woman is John O'Korn's mother.

Hack will be just fine.

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

Camp arm? Well camp arms that are on the practice squad make $7600 per week over 16 weeks thats $121,600 per year. Actually his NFL window is just opening, someone has pointed out he is still only 22 (?), the age some of the top draft choices are now and havent taken a snap. Now he can go somewhere, with no pressure on him, and none on the team, if it works, it works, and if not, he's on the practice squad running the other teams plays for a few years. The last 2 places he needs to be is the CFL or the Arena league, neither of who's style fit his game.
I do not understand the 'hate' for CH, I dont understand why people root against him in his bid to make the NFL. If he makes it in the NFL, it will be nothing but good for the PSU.

It's not hate, it's honesty. The only coach that would take a chance on him was Gruden, and that ship has now sailed. Now, I HOPE I am wrong and someone brings him in, and he somehow sticks on a practice squad.

But all indications are, that's not happening. And why does it need to? The NFL doesn't play favorites: If you can help them, you make it, if you can't you don't. Darryl Clark was a GREAT qb for this program and he spent one year as a backup in Canada. He's doing just fine these days.