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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Certainly one perspective - thanks for sharing. It's not all about the money for us though.
Next time just title this the "wbcincy is a bad parent" thread! My son starts kindergarten next year as well, but we never really considered private school. When we moved here, we specifically made sure we lived in one of the the top 20 school districts in the state (and ptactically pay for private school with the taxes...), so I'm hopeful that's enough.
My niece and nephew currently go to a great private school in Cincinnati (Seven Hills - you may have heard about their classmate getting trapped under the bench seat of a minivan and killed last week when 911 failed to respond appropriately). I've always been very impressed with their advanced level of knowledge and the interesting curriculum they have. I will say when they're in a private school that small, there's fewer groups of friends and if a kid isn't part of a particular clique or two, there aren't many other options, and that can be tough on them.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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LOL. We have concerns about private schools too and every parent always wants to do what is best for their child. I'm absolutely not against public school and we haven't ruled it out - we're just exploring private options right now and while it is our preference, if things don't work out I'm excited for my daughter's future at one of the several good public schools in the area. One private school we visited (K-8) took a whole student approach to education and really emphasized public service and being a good local and global citizen. They made a big deal out of doing the Pledge of Allegiance and noted how important their Veteran's Day event was to the school and community. Children take music throughout and must select an instrument to play, and all students must participate in sports. The idea here being since everyone is doing the same thing, there are fewer cliques. There is also a STEAM emphasis and kids begin learning coding as early as first grade. Younger students are assigned an older 'buddy' student each year to help socially and academically, and they do projects together as well. I liked that the school didn't harp on where their students matriculated to, but rather that they felt they left the school as good people.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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this hits the nail on the head!! Very well said.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Yes, definitely eye opening and an important consideration. But, we view this as an investment - not an expense, and it won’t compromise our savings for college. I appreciate the information though.
one can always point out a here and there, but I'll go back to what was said, parental involvement, and the cool thing is to work hard in school. When you lay out $30,000+ it tends to put more skin in the game.
True in most cases, but I have seen some really disconnected private school parents that think that the cost of tuition includes parenting.
I tend to agree with this but you need to have a good base to start from. We are in a good school district and they have pretty extensive resources. One town over not so much and friends that live there have their kids in a charter school which is better but still not as good as our Public School. Had my first child in Catholic school but she didn't really do well there and no way was I getting my moneys worth but Religious School is different that Private School - switched her to Public and Honor Role ever since with all advanced classes. I think something like 90% of the kids from her high school go to college every year. I do like the fact that she is in a more diverse environment, she is taking Spanish and their are kids who speak Spanish as a first language in her school. Had friends who kept their son in private when considering a move to Public because they felt he could not handle Public School - I was thinking to myself how the hell is he going to handle life then, it's not like he was going to prison. Not sure there is a right or wrong choice just what you feel is best for your kids, besides I need to save the money so I will be able to afford PSU for my kids since tuition seems to go up every Semester.
Drugs are available at public and private schools. Think that is clear.
I'll add that the REALLY bad apples from public school, the ones that get expelled, end up in the cheapest parochial/private school in the area.
My oldest son is going to graduate next year from one of the cheaper parochial/private schools in SE MI. He will be valedictorian, and go to a very good university. He excelled here, but he would have excelled in public school as well, and in hindsight, he would have had more opportunities at the local public school than this small private school. I think we probably should have chosen a different private school, or the public school for him, but I personally realized this too late.
My youngest finishes 8th grade this year, and we will be moving him to another school, as this school is just not a good fit for him (was fine in elementary, but middle school has just not been a good experience).
My ex and I are really struggling with the decision on where to go - it will either be a decent private school (where Bolden/ARob attended fwiw - I say decent, but it is a HUGE upgrade from the current school) or the local public school (remember punter Breen, who had alcohol issues and was kicked off team a few years ago), which is also a well rated school district. I am confident that either of the 2 choices will be fine, but the decision making is so tough.
Good luck with your kids!
I'll add that the REALLY bad apples from public school, the ones that get expelled, end up in the cheapest parochial/private school in the area.
My oldest son is going to graduate next year from one of the cheaper parochial/private schools in SE MI. He will be valedictorian, and go to a very good university. He excelled here, but he would have excelled in public school as well, and in hindsight, he would have had more opportunities at the local public school than this small private school. I think we probably should have chosen a different private school, or the public school for him, but I personally realized this too late.
My youngest finishes 8th grade this year, and we will be moving him to another school, as this school is just not a good fit for him (was fine in elementary, but middle school has just not been a good experience).
My ex and I are really struggling with the decision on where to go - it will either be a decent private school (where Bolden/ARob attended fwiw - I say decent, but it is a HUGE upgrade from the current school) or the local public school (remember punter Breen, who had alcohol issues and was kicked off team a few years ago), which is also a well rated school district. I am confident that either of the 2 choices will be fine, but the decision making is so tough.
Good luck with your kids!
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Thanks! Really interesting how many folks here have had both public and private school experiences. Your story also reinforces how the most important thing for a child is 'fit' - recognizing that is so important. Best to you and yours as well!
Be aware that the boarder/ninboarder distinction at Madeira can be a little weird.
We are going through this same experience with our kids. I just laugh because it is all a big waste of time and money for the middle and lower classes; all based on an illusion that paying more for school equals Bill Gates wealth down the road for your kid (and you). Are we really serving our kids or ourselves?
Seriously though, what are you going to teach a 3 year old that sets him apart from his upper class peers? Calculus? Advanced robotic engineering? And even if you do teach them advanced financial algorithms by 8th grade, so what? What's the long plan? Go work for Goldman Sachs as a grunt for the rest of your life to make a multi-millionaire's drop-out kid into a multi-billionaire and hope your bosses throw you a scrap at the end of the year? What kind of life is that? The perceived "safe income" professions (doctors, accountants, lawyers, engineers) come from all walks of life regardless of what school you end up at for 11th grade.
I also laugh at the connections pitch. Implying that one day Prince William will marry your daughter because he just so happened to be sitting next to her in finger painting class. The real money in this world doesn't interact with the masses and has trusted connections already established; they don't need your mom and pop realtor, accounting, or financial planning services. Their kids have hobbies and interests that most middle and lower classes kids don't even know exist, so you won't be doing much interacting outside of recess. And maybe one day your kid and his billionaire best friend from high school will start the next Facebook; or, maybe, they'll just split the bill at Starbucks on an occasional afternoon.
Seriously though, what are you going to teach a 3 year old that sets him apart from his upper class peers? Calculus? Advanced robotic engineering? And even if you do teach them advanced financial algorithms by 8th grade, so what? What's the long plan? Go work for Goldman Sachs as a grunt for the rest of your life to make a multi-millionaire's drop-out kid into a multi-billionaire and hope your bosses throw you a scrap at the end of the year? What kind of life is that? The perceived "safe income" professions (doctors, accountants, lawyers, engineers) come from all walks of life regardless of what school you end up at for 11th grade.
I also laugh at the connections pitch. Implying that one day Prince William will marry your daughter because he just so happened to be sitting next to her in finger painting class. The real money in this world doesn't interact with the masses and has trusted connections already established; they don't need your mom and pop realtor, accounting, or financial planning services. Their kids have hobbies and interests that most middle and lower classes kids don't even know exist, so you won't be doing much interacting outside of recess. And maybe one day your kid and his billionaire best friend from high school will start the next Facebook; or, maybe, they'll just split the bill at Starbucks on an occasional afternoon.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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So, are you going through it or not? Hard to tell. And if you've read anything I've written, you'll note for us it's not about connections or rubbing elbows with the wealthy/influential (nor have we received that pitch yet). It's about providing a challenging curriculum in an environment where my daughter can explore many different educational and social opportunities. It's about not having to worry about her being bused to some other school district because the growth where we live currently is at such a pace the new high school less than a mile from my house has trailers to accommodate students. The elementary school in my development has a wait list. They can't hire teachers fast enough here and with that brings lots of inexperience. School budgets are constantly wrangled over and sports/sports facilities are prioritized over all day kindergarten and/or GATE programs. I feel like the private route gives us a bit more control/involvement and that is appealing.
Interested to hear how things go/end up for you.
My comments weren't aimed at you, sorry if you took any offense. My rambling thoughts were directed at this whole schooling system in general. Everyone has their own needs that have to be met and yours sound perfectly reasonable for your situation.
I just try to take the long term view with all of this: 1). will they be safe; and 2). will they learn to read, write, and do basic math so that they can take the SAT, perform well, and get into college. The rest is on me as a parent to: screen their friends and their activities; instill a desire to learn and grow beyond the classroom; establish good study and work habits within the classroom; and expose them to other areas of life that might ignite a passion or desire for the rest of their days. I don't count on the teachers to do anything more than teach to the middle of the classroom and to control the classroom setting by keeping everyone physically and emotionally safe.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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No offense taken and I’m definitely interested in how things go for you and others here. Brave New World for me - I was a Marine brat.
amazing school that starts in 6th grade in reston (all girls) is oakcrest. daughter went there and got full ride to william and mary. catholic school though - do not need to be catholic to go there but not sure i would if were not Catholic.
Wife went to oak crest decades ago in dc. Way too small at the time, but has found a nice niche for families who work at a certain company in Langley. To be clear, when you say catholic, you mean Opus Dei. You are right that you don’t have to be catholic but it helps...probably a lot more than other catholic schools. Son (for a bit) and nephews went to heights. (We are non Opus Dei Catholics). They have and do an awful lot of things right (eg letting boys understand the concept of risk reward thru experience, a very strong classical education) but I’d only choose it if values and formation were at the absolute top of my list and I were absolutely comfortable with traditional gender role ideals.
You have received a lot of great color on how to approach the private v. public conundrum, My wife and I went through the same thing recently. We were fortunate to have our son accepted into several private and gifted programs here in Denver. We chose to put him in a private school. We were tremendously nervous as we were both public educatad kids growing up, but it has been a great decision.
A couple of other considerations that I did not see in the previous posts:
- We have found that the parental involvement is also a huge differentiation (for any school). In our school the parents are very involved and provides a great sense of community. This has been tremendously valuable for us and we believe for our son. I do think it does "take a village" to raise kids and whether comfort with sleepovers, parents coaching kids, emotional support, knowing how your kids interact with others, etc. it is a great attribute at a school. We have friends that send their twins to a very exclusive private school and they do not know a single parent (drop-off in the AM, pick-up in afternoon, that's all the interaction at the school). They were honest to us in saying how difficult it is to raise young kids when they feel they are an island. Anyway, one thing to consider.
- In talking to many educators, the biggest "risk area" where kids are lost is in the transition from 5th to 6th grade (elementary to middle school). That is when they are most impressionable and subject to bullying, low self esteem, uncertain of how/where they fit in, going through puberty, etc. If either your public or private schools have a direct transition (k-8, or elementary is only feeder to middle school), this if often viewed as a big positive. By the transition from 8th to 9th grade, most kids have a stronger sense of self and know where they fit in socially.
Clearly there are no perfect answers, but best of luck.
A couple of other considerations that I did not see in the previous posts:
- We have found that the parental involvement is also a huge differentiation (for any school). In our school the parents are very involved and provides a great sense of community. This has been tremendously valuable for us and we believe for our son. I do think it does "take a village" to raise kids and whether comfort with sleepovers, parents coaching kids, emotional support, knowing how your kids interact with others, etc. it is a great attribute at a school. We have friends that send their twins to a very exclusive private school and they do not know a single parent (drop-off in the AM, pick-up in afternoon, that's all the interaction at the school). They were honest to us in saying how difficult it is to raise young kids when they feel they are an island. Anyway, one thing to consider.
- In talking to many educators, the biggest "risk area" where kids are lost is in the transition from 5th to 6th grade (elementary to middle school). That is when they are most impressionable and subject to bullying, low self esteem, uncertain of how/where they fit in, going through puberty, etc. If either your public or private schools have a direct transition (k-8, or elementary is only feeder to middle school), this if often viewed as a big positive. By the transition from 8th to 9th grade, most kids have a stronger sense of self and know where they fit in socially.
Clearly there are no perfect answers, but best of luck.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Another great insight - thanks for sharing! We have heard parental involvement/sense of community is a big factor for a lot of schools we're looking at and it is very important to us. We are very involved with our daughter's school now (or try to be - go to school sponsored events, drop in for 'mystery reader' visits, and my wife is on the school improvement committee) and know a lot of the parents and really enjoy getting to know them and their children. Will be an important consideration for us going forward - thanks again!
One more piece of advice. If you end up in private do it from the start. Our experience is that kids that transferred in from public school (say from 4th or 5th grade on) could not cut it and usually left. Work ethic starts in kindergarten. Also the work load is significantly different than the local public schools and most of the kids that transferred in simply were not used to it.
As for the comments I have seen that it's mostly up to the parents I have one reply. If the school isn't demanding and expecting work out of the kid, how are you as a parent going to give the kid more work than his teachers give and his friends get. Good luck with that.
There were plenty of parents of kids in our private that weren't involved with their kid. That's not unique to public schools.
Also, many of the kids are not the children of "rich" parents. Many privates give scholarships and many middle income parents simply make the sacrifices required to send the kid to private school.
The real crime is that the public schools are not as good as privates. It doesn't take more money to improve the curriculum and the demands and expectations on kids. To quote all of the kids in my sons cub scout troop when I asked when we would return from a weekend camping trip because he had homework - "Homework? Homework? Nobody gets homework on the weekend".
As for the comments I have seen that it's mostly up to the parents I have one reply. If the school isn't demanding and expecting work out of the kid, how are you as a parent going to give the kid more work than his teachers give and his friends get. Good luck with that.
There were plenty of parents of kids in our private that weren't involved with their kid. That's not unique to public schools.
Also, many of the kids are not the children of "rich" parents. Many privates give scholarships and many middle income parents simply make the sacrifices required to send the kid to private school.
The real crime is that the public schools are not as good as privates. It doesn't take more money to improve the curriculum and the demands and expectations on kids. To quote all of the kids in my sons cub scout troop when I asked when we would return from a weekend camping trip because he had homework - "Homework? Homework? Nobody gets homework on the weekend".
I do find it funny how I have friends with infants, 6 - 10 months old and tell me they are in preschool, I believe they call that Daycare, I mean what are you "teaching" a 6 month old - I guess it makes them fell better about it. With you question, as I noted I don't think you can go wrong either way if you make sure your daughter gets the full exposure to all types of people, I readily admit they I grew up in a mostly white middle class area outside of Chicago but where I live in SEPA now has a more diverse representation which I think helps my kids be more well rounded without giving up much as far a quality of education goes. They are all in Public School. I bet its no fun writing checks for school and also paying taxes for the public school, I understand why people do it though, we all want the best we can give for our kids. Good Luck.
Indeed. In your visits watch carefully for the “right” kind of parental involvement. As I am sure you know, in this area you will encounter many highly educated stay at home moms and dads with too much time on their hands. They can suck the o2 out of the room quickly. Thru the course of my kids lives, ive encountered supreme ct justices, presidential candidates, ballistic missile submarine captains, high powered lobbyists to name a few. And across the political spectrum. But in the case of every one of them, it was typically something like making change at the bake sale, picking up a kid from practice, or the like. Look for parents who lead by serving, rather than the other way around. That’s the school you want.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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I don’t know that anyone here has said public school is criminal or poor - mostly the opposite I think. My colleague is a William and Mary grad (he’s probably 10 years younger - early 30’s) and is really impressive. Congrats to your daughter!
Don’t agree on the work ethic point at all. Public kids do fine at private schools. And frankly workload really never kicks in til high school Publics could certainly be better by cutting bs admin overhead, but the problem if you will is that they have to serve a very wide range. it is their mandate. My dad knew it was time to retire from teaching public school when (I) the ratio of teachers to admins in his district went from 5:1 to 1:2 and (Ii) when they announced they would be offering a course called algebra one and a half.
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Workload kicked in way before HS for my kids. Way before. Not sure what your experience is but that was ours. Public school kids that transferred in often flunked out or just quit. Not all but many. That was the reality that we saw.
Surprising and sad, and atypical from my perspective. Kids had regular work consistently, and occasional “projects” that might cause short term stress. But nothing at all like a true high school workload. (My son is generally up until midnight daily). Can’t imagine that’s developmentally healthy in elementary school. With the exception of a very few athletes, haven’t seen publicly kids bombing out. Have seen private kids jump into a gazillion activities out of the gate and bomb out early on til parents set them straight on priorities.
its a game of probabilities.
Fact is, you create a kid's environment. If you put your kids in a sweat shop making Nikes, they will be just as well adjusted as a regular kid. The challenge is giving the kids the best tools to move out of the house and sustain their lives without the parents some day. There are no "right" answers.
Oh man I bet you’ve heard stories...
My favorite, though it was technically an innocent mistake: friend sat on some parent event committee for sssa. At evening meeting somebody made a pitcher of margaritas. They didn’t finish the pitcher and put it back in the fridge. Next day kids consumed thinking it was “lemonade”. Hilarity ensues.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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We enjoy a good amount of diversity in NoVA and I think it’s important for my children to be exposed to different cultures and perspectives. Her preschool is really diverse and we appreciate that. As to what infants do in a ‘preschool’, it’s less about quantity but more about quality. Ours learned basic sign language, were exposed to tactile exercises (water/ice play, painting/coloring, etc.), were read to, learned animal noises and colors, etc. Not unlike what most parents do with kids at home just that they get it every day which is nice for working parents. It’s mostly about keeping them engaged and active, which is something we couldn’t guarantee with a nanny.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Also on our list but an outlier in terms of location. Said W&M colleague is a SSSA product as well (Cornell MBA).
Oh I know how that can be. So I grew up in central pa where you were sent to catholic school if you were a behavioral problem in public school. My wife grew up here where you were sent to public school if you were a behavioral problem in catholic school. Hard to find a middle ground in that dichotomy. So I caved early on the theory of better values formation earlier and we’ll see where it leads. Parish school was fine but not exceptional on both fronts. But candidly I never truly “got” catholic ed til my son went to gnz.
I think some of you are over rating these fancy private schools. Full disclosure here, I went to Bucknell and got in and had school paid for through football. I went to a terrible catholic school in NEPA ( in the way of academics). The school expected pretty rigid behavior, so I guess the values aspect was helpful. There were some very good teachers, but most were pretty average, and the course selection was awful ( virtually no advanced science and math, and no advanced humanities or social science classes). I don’t remember really ever studying or spending more than 30-40 minutes on homework in high school. Nobody besides my football coach ever talked to me about actually trying a little bit.
I was intimidated when I got to Bucknell, but actually began to take school seriously and realized all the fancy kids from fancy private school from big cities weren’t really all that impressive. In fact many weren’t very smart at all. Perhaps the smart ones go to Yale and Georgetown and Penn, and Bucknell gets the rejects?
I understand we all want what’s best for our kids, and these fancy private schools obviously provide high quality educational opportunities. Get your daughter in a school that will challenge her sufficiently, and provide a good social environment and she will be just fine.
I was intimidated when I got to Bucknell, but actually began to take school seriously and realized all the fancy kids from fancy private school from big cities weren’t really all that impressive. In fact many weren’t very smart at all. Perhaps the smart ones go to Yale and Georgetown and Penn, and Bucknell gets the rejects?
I understand we all want what’s best for our kids, and these fancy private schools obviously provide high quality educational opportunities. Get your daughter in a school that will challenge her sufficiently, and provide a good social environment and she will be just fine.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Mileage may vary for many reasons, but the main things I’m looking for in a school relate more to your final point - not anything having to do with being fancy or anything. Thanks for sharing!
Fairfax County has separate public schools for the most gifted and talented. My very smart nephew went this track, including attending highly-ranked Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology. Went to Penn afterwards. Seems to me this yields an education on par with, or better than, most any private school in NoVA without the heavy tuition.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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TJ is very competitive - as much or more so than any private school. Probably moreso since it’s free. Nice job by your nephew - great accomplishment.
Tj is sort of the exception to every rule, given that it’s consistently ranked in the top five schools in the country.
If you can get in.
This does not address your problem, but is something to think about.
I live in the philly area. One daughter and the means to put her in a private school.
My neighbor had a child in the top private and one at strath haven. He said both were great and it depended on her personality. I sent her to the public school
And she soared. Got a great education and into a great school.
Here was the trick. I put the private tuition check each into an account for her.
That money grew into a huge chunk of change. That account continues untouched and will eventually buy her a house or condo.
($25,000 per year times twelve and invested.). In addition, at the top ten college she attended, everyone thought she had received the best education.
I live in the philly area. One daughter and the means to put her in a private school.
My neighbor had a child in the top private and one at strath haven. He said both were great and it depended on her personality. I sent her to the public school
And she soared. Got a great education and into a great school.
Here was the trick. I put the private tuition check each into an account for her.
That money grew into a huge chunk of change. That account continues untouched and will eventually buy her a house or condo.
($25,000 per year times twelve and invested.). In addition, at the top ten college she attended, everyone thought she had received the best education.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Certainly a lot depends on the family and especially the child. No one here seems to regret the decisions they’ve made vav private and public school - that is pretty telling. Your daughter is lucky - maybe she’ll take Mom and Dad on a trip when she graduates!
