fc no more pre game prayers??? I've never been a big fan of this

[sluggo72]

especially forcing religion down someone's throat. Should be up to the player, imho.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/14/protest-pushes-toledo-to-nix-pregame-prayers/

 

[Obliviax]

Looks like players can pray, as long as it isn't sponsored by the school or team. interesting additional topic though, if the school is religion based (ND, BC, Dayton) versus a public institution like Penn State.

 

[LionJim]

especially forcing religion down someone's throat. Should be up to the player, imho.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/14/protest-pushes-toledo-to-nix-pregame-prayers/

It shouldn't be condoned. People can pray on their own, wherever and however they want to. That's what religious people do anyway.

 

[sluggo72]

It shouldn't be condoned. People can pray on their own, wherever and however they want to. That's what religious people do anyway.

Jim some of the FCA football guys believe it is not only their job but their obligation to witness Christ every chance they get in a team setting, and as a player you should embrace it.

 

[psu00]

I would think colleges have bigger things to worry about than something so benign as whether a team prays or not.

 

[cjrugger]

Destined for the test board

 

[massimoManca II]

I've been saying for years that college football is going to hell...

 

[sluggo72]

I would think colleges have bigger things to worry about than something so benign as whether a team prays or not.

that's the problem it aint that benign!!! Many programs HC force their religionist values on their players. See Dabo Sweeney.

 

[bwifan]

seems to go both ways now... seems I get just as much "I don't believe in a god...." or "I'm and atheist...." constantly anymore when I didn't ask that person about any of it.... both sides seem to be shoving it down throats and doesn't seem to be letting up anytime soon so I guess get used to it...

 

[massimoManca II]

would anyone else back me up or de-bunk the following statement:

the first time a player was seen kneeling/praying in the endzone following a score was 42 DJDozier in the Fiesta Bowl
​

I remember making that observation when it originally aired, though I have no way to substantiate

 

[Michael.Felli]

Hmmmm....is this a thread trying to goad me?

 

[GulfCoastLion]

Well I'm not surprised by this at all. We took prayer out of the schools years ago, so I'm actually surprised it took those opposed to it to push this issue at sporting events like football. Fortunately, there are many strong young men of faith who will continue to pray and actually pray together, even with the opposing team after and sometimes before college and pro football games right on the field of play. It's not sanctioned by the university, or professional team in any way. Just many, strong men of faith carrying out their own individual and collective right to do so. Of course you rarely, if ever see TV coverage of the men/young men praying, but that's OK too.

 

[Obliviax]

Hands up.

 

[BBrown]

would anyone else back me up or de-bunk the following statement:

the first time a player was seen kneeling/praying in the endzone following a score was 42 DJDozier in the Fiesta Bowl
​

I remember making that observation when it originally aired, though I have no way to substantiate

He was the first I remember doing it but pretty sure he did it through out his career and not just the Fiesta bowl but I could be wrong on that. IIRC he was involved with some type of Ministry after he retired.

 

[Op2]

that's the problem it aint that benign!!! Many programs HC force their religionist values on their players. See Dabo Sweeney.

In a book Bobby Bowden wrote years ago he stated he wouldn't hire an atheist as assistant coach. In Rich Rodriguez's introductory press conference as HC at WVU he said his favorite book was the Bible. And of course's there's Dabo.

The approval from the public is so strong that coaches have an incentive to bow down to religion regardless of whether they believe it. Private schools can do what they want but IMO no way should state funded schools be allowed to that. It's a football game. What does praying have to do with it? As with all other activities, people can pray about it themselves if they like. It doesn't need to be sanctioned by the school or coach.

 

[Michael.Felli]

Obviously, some here missed 60 Minutes, last night, regarding ISIS recruiting in London.

May I suggest watching the 2014 Best Foreign Film Nominee "Timbuktu", also.

 

[Michael.Felli]

Hands up.

Oddly enough, this guy never bothered to write anything down. Never once said to Peter, "Pete. Come here and write this down for me. It's important."

Nada! Not once!

 

[Obliviax]

Oddly enough, this guy never bothered to write anything down. Never once said to Peter, "Pete. Come here and write this down for me. It's important."

Nada! Not once!

I think its because he used snapchat and not a more permanent solution like Facebook or Twitter. I mean, how hard would it have been to get in his car, go to Costco, get some sharpies and a write it down.

 

[psu00]

that's the problem it aint that benign!!! Many programs HC force their religionist values on their players. See Dabo Sweeney.

It is benign- just not 'politically correct' to some. Dabo doesn't equal many. He equals 1 and recruits know exactly what they get with his program. If you don't want to pray then don't pray. If you want to pray then pray. Not a big deal.

 

[bmw199]

One of my favorite pre game scenes is when our guys run down to the North End Zone and bend down and say a prayer before the game. I loved it when I was a kid and to this day still makes me proud to see 80-90% of team do this.

 

[sluggo72]

It is benign- just not 'politically correct' to some. Dabo doesn't equal many. He equals 1 and recruits know exactly what they get with his program. If you don't want to pray then don't pray. If you want to pray then pray. Not a big deal.

Dabo is one of many. These are kids, and many on Dabo's team feel if you don't pray, you don't play. it is a big deal on many teams. It is not the way it should be.

 

[psu00]

Dabo is one of many. These are kids, and many on Dabo's team feel if you don't pray, you don't play. it is a big deal on many teams. It is not the way it should be.

ESPN did a show on Dabos program I think last year. The kids know how his program is fun right from recruiting on. He said there is no pray or don't play attitude. Not that I follow Clemson much- but I haven't heard some kid say that there was. Your working yourself up over this and making a mountain out of a mole hill here.

 

[massimoManca II]

He was the first I remember doing it but pretty sure he did it through out his career and not just the Fiesta bowl but I could be wrong on that. IIRC he was involved with some type of Ministry after he retired.

I have a history of remembering things differently than they actually happened - but I saw every DJ Dozier home game as a student in '86 but recalled only one TD/Endzone prayer and that was in the Fiesta Bowl vs. Miami...

 

[psuro]

It starts with "We would like to pray before a game" and then morph into "We only will pray to the correct God". And that is where the trouble starts. Considering the heterogeneity of college students and their beliefs, and the microcosm of college athletics reflecting that heterogeneity, one can safely assume that not all college athletes are going to be of the same religion, or even the same sect of the same religion. And, considering the volatile nature of religion (in direct conflict with the peace it is to bring), best to not have that in a confined space like a locker room.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I think its because he used snapchat and not a more permanent solution like Facebook or Twitter. I mean, how hard would it have been to get in his car, go to Costco, get some sharpies and a write it down.

Why didn't he video it? Feli has a point and don't forget someone is holding a gun to his head right now and making him pray.

 

[Howie'81]

especially forcing religion down someone's throat. Should be up to the player, imho.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/14/protest-pushes-toledo-to-nix-pregame-prayers/

Geez, it's not done at gunpoint. Lighten up.

 

[Howie'81]

Im with you sluggo...I don't like someone shoving religion down my throat and likewise, I don't want to shove my faith down anyone else's either...way too much of that going around these days.

I can remember State High used to kneel down pray on the field just prior to the kick off in the early 70's. In the 80's we prayed in the locker room before the game and after the game.

Really? Maybe the Muslims are doing that, but in terms of Christianity, the secular agenda is being shoved down our throats, to use your term, seemingly at every turn.

 

[Op2]

I think a distinction has to be made between a team prayer and some other kind of team ritual gathering. The team coming together and doing something or saying something as a showing of solidarity and support for one another is fine. I just don't see the need to bring God or religion into the picture for a TEAM event. Each person can do (or not do) the God and religion thing anyway they like.

 

[psu00]

Geez, it's not done at gunpoint. Lighten up.

That's the problem in these discussions. You can almost never just discuss the issue. It instantly goes nuclear with statements like "shoving religion down their throat" type stuff. There's a legitimate debate for finding the right middle ground but it's often tough to keep a rational discussion on this board anymore.

 

[Howie'81]

Joe's teams "Thanked the Good Lord," and prayed, as he was want to put it.

 

[bmw199]

I think a distinction has to be made between a team prayer and some other kind of team ritual gathering. The team coming together and doing something or saying something as a showing of solidarity and support for one another is fine. I just don't see the need to bring God or religion into the picture for a TEAM event. Each person can do (or not do) the God and religion thing anyway they like.

And what's the problem with all of the religious players on the team praying together with the religious coaches

 

[sluggo72]

And what's the problem with all of the religious players on the team praying together with the religious coaches

because its a team sport ,and things should be done as a team, and no team should want to exclude any team member from any team activity. No team member should have to feel excluded. The Jewish kids shouldn't have to go into the shower area, while the rest of the team prays in the locker room with the HC. it's not the way teams work. If all the religious players want to get together with all the religious coaches, fine they can do that on Thursday night at the chapel, not the locker room, not the coaches office and not time that would normally be spent with the team, I have no problem with this. I have a problem with the HC calling the team up together, 30 min before game time, getting down on 1 knee and saying the Lords prayer. It does not belong in a locker room.

 

[Madsol]

Really? Maybe the Muslims are doing that, but in terms of Christianity, the secular agenda is being shoved down our throats, to use your term, seemingly at every turn.

I often wonder where these people are going that always talk about having religion, i.e., Christianity, "shoved down their throats." Are they going to evangelical Christian churches and then complaining about having Christianity shoved down their throats? Because it seems to me that the only reference to Christianity in the popular culture is using the Lord's name as a curse word. So it's not the popular culture. It's certainly not on college campuses. It's not in a government setting, unless you equate seeing "In God we Trust" emblazoned on a wall in some courthouse or on your money with having religion shoved down your throat. So where is all this shoving-Christianity-down-your-throat happening?

 

[Howie'81]

And what's the problem with all of the religious players on the team praying together with the religious coaches

Newsflash: Teams are composed of individuals who are each unique in their own way. You don't have to totally lose that to be on a team. That's not what being selfless means. Players, coaches, waterboys, etc. who want to pray ARE doing the "religion thing anyway they like" to quote Op2 above. Those who don't want to pray can simply observe a moment of silence or watch the grass grow. Let me ask you this. Coaches want to win, right? If team prayers were so divisive, they wouldn't do them. I'd say they are likely more unifying then divisive. Hence you have team prayers.

 

[bmw199]

Newsflash: Teams are composed of individuals who are each unique in their own way. You don't have to totally lose that to be on a team. That's not what being selfless means. Players, coaches, waterboys, etc. who want to pray ARE doing the "religion thing anyway they like" to quote Op2 above. Those who don't want to pray can simply observe a moment of silence or watch the grass grow. Let me ask you this. Coaches want to win, right? If team prayers were so divisive, they wouldn't do them. I'd say they are likely more unifying then divisive. Hence you have team prayers.

Did you reply to the wrong message?

 

[Howie'81]

I often wonder where these people are going that always talk about having religion, i.e., Christianity, "shoved down their throats." Are they going to evangelical Christian churches and then complaining about having Christianity shoved down their throats? Because it seems to me that the only reference to Christianity in the popular culture is using the Lord's name as a curse word. So it's not the popular culture. It's certainly not on college campuses. It's not in a government setting, unless you equate seeing "In God we Trust" emblazoned on a wall in some courthouse or on your money with having religion shoved down your throat. So where is all this shoving-Christianity-down-your-throat happening?

Well said.

 

[bwifan]

because its a team sport ,and things should be done as a team, and no team should want to exclude any team member from any team activity. No team member should have to feel excluded. The Jewish kids shouldn't have to go into the shower area, while the rest of the team prays in the locker room with the HC. it's not the way teams work. If all the religious players want to get together with all the religious coaches, fine they can do that on Thursday night at the chapel, not the locker room, not the coaches office and not time that would normally be spent with the team, I have no problem with this. I have a problem with the HC calling the team up together, 30 min before game time, getting down on 1 knee and saying the Lords prayer. It does not belong in a locker room.

This is where we differ.... I don't have a problem with this at all no matter what religion/group affilation. I see your point about a team being together but have no problem is people on a team want to go huddle up to pray/meditate/etc....

 

[Howie'81]

Did you reply to the wrong message?

It was more a response to Op2's message.

 

[bmw199]

fine they can do that on Thursday night at the chapel

Won't you then complain certain players weren't invited to a team event on a Thursday??

 

[bmw199]

It was more a response to Op2's message.

Yea, I was confused bc I thought we were on the same side of this.