FC: Kessel to the Pens. Martin leaves for the Sharks.
- Thread starter PhillipintheValley
- Start date
Good? This could be one of the biggest steals in history. Kessel is such a talent, he is averaging a point a game and now you are going to put him with Crosby?
Toronto got nothing in return,I mean Kapanen may turn out to be ok, but the Pens want to win in the next few years. Toronto is also paying a large percentage of Kessel's contract and Pittsburgh is getting a pick.
Big win for Pittsburgh here.
Toronto got nothing in return,I mean Kapanen may turn out to be ok, but the Pens want to win in the next few years. Toronto is also paying a large percentage of Kessel's contract and Pittsburgh is getting a pick.
Big win for Pittsburgh here.
Great pickup in Kessel.
Although the Pens wanted to keep Martin, he had 1 foot out the door due to the $ it would have taken to keep him and him being 34 and wanting a long term deal. Pens also still have some depth on D, with Matta coming back as well. But will likely add veteran D at much lower cost
Best news I heard is that Downey went elsewhere .... Too many opponents scored game winners with him in the box last yr
Although the Pens wanted to keep Martin, he had 1 foot out the door due to the $ it would have taken to keep him and him being 34 and wanting a long term deal. Pens also still have some depth on D, with Matta coming back as well. But will likely add veteran D at much lower cost
Best news I heard is that Downey went elsewhere .... Too many opponents scored game winners with him in the box last yr
Toronto supposedly paying $1.25M of Kessel's deal, so only costing Pens $6.75 per. Plus they dealt Spaling, which will save $2M next year. This is fantastic for the Pens.
there's a reason Toronto was so desperately trying to rid themselves of him and teams weren't lining up to throw big offers at them to take him off their handfs. Guy has always been known as a locker room cancer. Talent wise, no brainer, but he could be a real boom or complete bust that causes a ton of problems in locker room
His rep has dogged him for a while, but any recent complaints should be taken w/ a hefty grain of salt based on how idiotic the press/rumor mill in Toronto can be.
Besides, my understanding is he's working out this summer w/ Gary Roberts. If nothing else, he won't be fat & out-of-shape entering camp based on that alone
His rep has dogged him for a while, but any recent complaints should be taken w/ a hefty grain of salt based on how idiotic the press/rumor mill in Toronto can be.
Besides, my understanding is he's working out this summer w/ Gary Roberts. If nothing else, he won't be fat & out-of-shape entering camp based on that alone
I'm curious to see how well Kessel and Crosby mesh. Kessel is great off the rush, puck on his stick. Crosby likes to carry too, only really needs a guy with a wicked one timer and a great hockey sense to anticipate exactly what 87 will do at any given time. Dupuis had that, something that really lacked on 87's wings last year.
Fact: Kessel is a cancer in the locker room. He doesn't back check worth a darn. Crosby never liked him due to Kessels problems with his buddy Jack Johnson.
That being said: Kessel will be training with scary Gary Roberts this summer. No doubt Gary will administer hard work effort and tame the shrew some!!
That being said: Kessel will be training with scary Gary Roberts this summer. No doubt Gary will administer hard work effort and tame the shrew some!!
Yeah, had heard that about Crosby and Kessel having issues in past as well.
Either a huge win for the Pens or a disaster I don't see much middle ground on this one. IF Kessel gets his attitude straightened out and shows up on a nightly basis, this could be a huge steal for what they gave up. However, everyone knows the rumors of what Kessel can do to a team. Goal scoring won't be a problem for him although don't expect 40 a season, I would think more between 25 - 30. He was the only guy in Toronto that could score, in Pittsburgh he won't be the primary target therefore his numbers will drop slightly. IF he doesn't work out in Pittsburgh by some chance, it is going to be very difficult for Pittsburgh to unload him. That will be 3 teams Kessel would have gone too and caused some sort of problem, won't see people lining up with offer sheets. This one has potential to become a very interesting scenario.
As a Penguins fan, I like the move and I don't think that the Pens really gave up anything that they're going to miss in the long run. The fact that Toronto took some salary is even better. As for being a cancer, I would hope that Kessel will realize that the pressure isn't on him in Pittsburgh like it was in Toronto. He has a supporting cast now and the press won't dog him like they did in Toronto. That is what I'd hope would help his psyche.
Martin has the chance to get that one last big paycheck before he retires and he wasn't going to get that in Pittsburgh. That's fine. I think the Pens have enough in the WBS pipeline for defensemen that have more of an upside than Martin will bring. Guys like Dumoulin and Chorney earned valuable playoff minutes that accelerated their development. To me, Martin had his moments but seemed to have lost a step physically and mentally. I'm disappointed that they lost Comeau but again, he wasn't going to get Colorado's price in Pittsburgh.
Martin has the chance to get that one last big paycheck before he retires and he wasn't going to get that in Pittsburgh. That's fine. I think the Pens have enough in the WBS pipeline for defensemen that have more of an upside than Martin will bring. Guys like Dumoulin and Chorney earned valuable playoff minutes that accelerated their development. To me, Martin had his moments but seemed to have lost a step physically and mentally. I'm disappointed that they lost Comeau but again, he wasn't going to get Colorado's price in Pittsburgh.
Anyone who knows anything about Hockey will tell you this is a GREAT deal for the Penguins. The arguments against it, are reaches. The guy is a top 6 winger, and is 3 months YOUNGER than Sid.
He's working with Gary Roberts, and his presence in the locker room was blown WAY out of proportion by the Toronto hockey media, which is, and has always been bat$hit crazy.
He's working with Gary Roberts, and his presence in the locker room was blown WAY out of proportion by the Toronto hockey media, which is, and has always been bat$hit crazy.
He hated the Toronto media and was miserable there. One thing about Kessel is he is NOT slow. He's not a body builder but he has really good speed. Watch him in the all-star game races.
Small point, but Chorney's gone now, too. He and Dumoulin had a real symbiosis that made them greater than the sum of their parts when paired up. In WBS, their numbers as a unit were unreal -- 3 even strength goals allowed when out together for over half the year (or close to it). Still, on balance, this has been a great day
Yeah, I saw that about an hour ago on NHL.com when I went scrolling thru there. Maybe this Oleksy guy they got from the Craps will make up for it!!
He didn't weigh in. Rutherford just said he got a text from Crosby expressing excitement after the deal was done.
And, about that bat-shit crazy comment:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...rford-and-silencing-the-haters-232353034.html
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck; it's a duck!!
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...rford-and-silencing-the-haters-232353034.html
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck; it's a duck!!
I know he's a good skater typically. I just heard that he kind of got out of shape this year which slowed him down. It is good news if reports of him working out with Roberts are true.
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There is zero chance this trade goes down without 87s full endorsement - even GMJR is not dumb enough to tie the organIation to 7 yrs of anyone they think would be a headache. 1 or 2 yrs? Maybe, but not with this type of commitment
I'm not saying Phil is a model citizen but a great deal of the bad perception comes from one of the most warped media markets in sports. Combine that with someone that a) does not like the spotlight, b) has absolutely NO supporting cast on a team in a death spiral and c) is ,as an American being the face of Canada's team that can't get out of its own way..... and you have what Kessel's situation in Toronto became
You don't put up his numbers or show his sheer speed by being lazy. Sorry. Could he be better conditioned? Yeah, but so could half the league. I liken this situation a lot like Jagr when he struggled to be THE guy. Put him in a supporting role where he is not the face of the franchise and you have the best scenario. This was a GREAT trade when evaluating the impact on the here and now, what the org needs and the window to maximize their potential in the prime of 87 and 71's careers
I'm not saying Phil is a model citizen but a great deal of the bad perception comes from one of the most warped media markets in sports. Combine that with someone that a) does not like the spotlight, b) has absolutely NO supporting cast on a team in a death spiral and c) is ,as an American being the face of Canada's team that can't get out of its own way..... and you have what Kessel's situation in Toronto became
You don't put up his numbers or show his sheer speed by being lazy. Sorry. Could he be better conditioned? Yeah, but so could half the league. I liken this situation a lot like Jagr when he struggled to be THE guy. Put him in a supporting role where he is not the face of the franchise and you have the best scenario. This was a GREAT trade when evaluating the impact on the here and now, what the org needs and the window to maximize their potential in the prime of 87 and 71's careers
Martin will suck with the Sharks because the Sharks, well, suck.
Q: "Will the Sharks suck next year?"
A: "Duh. Will the swallows [note swallow pun] return to Capistrano?"
Q: "Will the Sharks suck next year?"
A: "Duh. Will the swallows [note swallow pun] return to Capistrano?"
It really depends on which Kessel shows up. He has proven to be a dog in the dressing room and been dumped by both the Bruins and Maple Leafs. Sure he is an elite goal scorer and may statistically give the Pens 2 years of 30+ goals but eventually the Pens will end up dumping him as well.
Pens know they need to act quickly to win another Cup with Crosby and Malkin. Their organizational depth is near the bottom of the league with few if any prospects available to make the jump to the NHL. I think the Pens are rolling the dice and hoping his goal scoring helps Crosby and Malkin step up their games.
Unless you have 100% proof of this, you cannot make this claim.
I've always respect your opinion you know that sir.
Here's a GM's own self evaluation on himself:
Jim Rutherford oversaw a Penguins team that nearly missed the playoffs last season (although it had some devastating injuries along the way). After taking the helm from Ray Shero, the moves he made to correct some of their lineup problems didn’t pan out.
He even apologized for one trade, the much-lamented Simon Despres for Ben Lovejoy swap with Anaheim, saying he “wouldn’t make the trade” if given the chance to do it over again. Which is really something you never want to hear a general manager say, especially within weeks of the trade’s completion.
When your GM says this about himself then; you have an idiot for a GM!
Both Crosby and Malkin are two way players who back check. They're the stars of the team, too. I'm hoping that being with guys like Sid and Geno, who are elite players in the league who also play D, will motivate Kessel to also be a two way player. If Sid and Geno are willing to do it, Kessel can, too.
In Rutherford's press conference yesterday, he said he doesn't have to run these moves by Crosby, but he does run a lot of things by Crosby as he's the leader of the team and captain. He didn't specifically say whether he did or did not discuss this specific trade with Sid but I'm sure he did. No, he doesn't need Crosby's blessing but he said he likes to know what Sid thinks of different scenarios. I don't know why this is even being discussed. Why wouldn't Sid be happy to finally have a legit scorer to play with. We're past the days of putting anyone with Sid and he'll drag them up into the top 10 in league scoring. They need to capitalize now and they know it. But still, with Toronto taking on salary and the cap continuing to go up over the next 7 years, this is not a bad cap hit at all.
He very well could have but what proof do you have of this?
That's all I'm saying.
Perhaps he did.
Does not mean he did not weigh in on the potential move ahead of it being made. What Rutherford releases publicly is never the full story. There is no proof either way.
Glov, for as much as GMJRs moves have been a mixed bag and he certainly is at fault for some of those, he's not exactly a rookie in management. One of the best ways to flop is to piss off your star players, so I really don't buy that Sid was not aware this may have been in the works or asked for his thoughts on Phil. This is not a 1 year trial commitment, it's 7 yrs and nearly $46 million. Common sense would dictate due diligence on the impact and the leaders and mgmt would be involved in that
Now you're arguing just to argue. Rutherford's comments (I heard it live on 93.7 driving home) made it sound very much like he did discuss with Sid although he didn't explicitly confirm it.
Why does it matter? It is pretty common for GM's to get input from their franchise players on certain deals. They also may ask former teammates about a guy before they bring them in. They do a ton of homework (in all sports). So who cares either way?
I very much doubt that Crosby didn't get the final OK with this trade. Do you think they would go out and get Kessel without saying to crosby "Hey, do you want us to go out and get Kessel" first?
Indeed sir you could be correct but, Knowing our nit-wit GM, he more likely talked to Lemieux than Crosby.
