FC: How to deal with fake injuries that attempt to stall drives.....

[PSUSignore]

Agree. But it's at suspicious times that's the issue.

> 1st and 10 from the 20, 1st down goes for 4 yards and now it's 2nd and 6 from the 24... player on D goes down with the wind knocked out = not suspicious at all.

> Team A is leading by 3 points and is on a nice drive late in the 3rd Qtr threatening to make it a 2-score game. 7 play drive mounting, Team A is now inside the 20 yard line, and has Team B on their heels. All of a sudden while walking back to the huddle a DT for Team B falls like he's been shot, and proceeds to lay on the ground looking injured for a good 2 minutes while medical staff and trainers hover around him. After a couple minutes he gets up and walks off the field.

There is a big & obvious difference between the 2 scenarios. Obviously in real time the officiating crew can not call the player in the second example a faker. The player really could be hurt. But the second example does have suspicious aspects. It goes to the old saying baseball loves to use... "integrity of the game".

"Suspicious timing" is subjective. Also it's possible that someone happens to get a real injury or cramp at a time that someone thinks is suspicious. This is a really difficult thing to police in general, the more I think about it the more I think it's best to just leave it alone.

 

[WDLion]

Agree. But it's at suspicious times that's the issue.

> 1st and 10 from the 20, 1st down goes for 4 yards and now it's 2nd and 6 from the 24... player on D goes down with the wind knocked out = not suspicious at all.

> Team A is leading by 3 points and is on a nice drive late in the 3rd Qtr threatening to make it a 2-score game. 7 play drive mounting, Team A is now inside the 20 yard line, and has Team B on their heels. All of a sudden while walking back to the huddle a DT for Team B falls like he's been shot, and proceeds to lay on the ground looking injured for a good 2 minutes while medical staff and trainers hover around him. After a couple minutes he gets up and walks off the field.

There is a big & obvious difference between the 2 scenarios. Obviously in real time the officiating crew can not call the player in the second example a faker. The player really could be hurt. But the second example does have suspicious aspects. It goes to the old saying baseball loves to use... "integrity of the game".

Read the post i replied too.

 

[Kiber]

OK

But if they (fake injuries) are viewed as a "problem" wrt the adjudication of the game.....
Are there ways that are a thousand times simpler, fairer, easier, responsive, thorough, congruent with current rules, and appropriate to handle the issue?

Wouldn't it make sense to follow a path that is simple, fair, easy, responsive, thorough, congruent, and appropriate - to respond to, and mitigate, the issue?

Rather than re-inventing the wheel.

Like what? What are the easy answers to fix this? I do not see any because the situation can not be officiated in real time. An officiating crew could be 99.999999% certain a player is faking. But could you imagine the backlash a crew would get if they flagged a team with a 15-yard delay of game penalty for a player faking injury, and it turned out the player truly was hurt. That .000001% chance of being wrong would probably stop every officiating crew from throwing a flag.

Personally, I believe this entire debate is senseless because I feel this is an issue that can not be policed just because of what I outlined above.

Heck, an individual player may do it himself without orders from the sideline. You could have a savvy, 5th year Senior who recognizes the need to slow the game and the savvy 5th year Senior may just take it upon himself to fall down and fake a cramp.... How would this ever be proven???

The reality is that the only way it stops is for coaches to get on other coaches. These coaches all hang out together at conventions, clinics and trips. I know Nike used to host an annual coaches trip for coaches and families. The reality is that when coaches are together and they are having cocktails with each other, enough of them will have to make it an issue to get a "gentleman's agreement" on this crap to stop. And that also is not happening.

 

[Kiber]

Its not difficult


How do you prevent players from "holding"?
You institute a penalty that is significant enough to mitigate - - - - at least to the degree that the league (the competition committee, or whomever) feel they have achieved the proper balance.
If the penalty was increased - say from 10 yards to 20 yards - what, do you think, would happen?

How do you prevent players from "roughing the QB"?
You institute a penalty for doing so.
If that penalty was reduced from 15 yards to 5 yards... what do you think would happen?

The NFL tries to reduce the number of infractions for DBs interfering with eligible receivers.... How? By instituting a penalty for such infractions (up to and including "spot of the foul").
If - like in college football - they reduced the maximum penalty.... lets say, in this case, to a "5 yard" penalty, what would happen?



RIGHT NOW, there is a penalty imposed when a player requires a stoppage in play and medical attention.
The penalty? We all know what it is..... player must leave the playing field for at least one play.

What, prey tell, do you think the league could do to reduce the number of illegitimate "injuries" requiring a stoppage in play.... if that is the goal?
(And that, obviously, is the goal as presented by the OP..... folks can "debate" anything they want, but THAT was the stated issue at hand)


They already have a rule in the books...... it is as easy as falling off a log to adjust the "penalty" (up or down) to either further reduce the number of incidents, or to loosen up play.
In this case, of course, the topic of the day is how to REDUCE the number of "questionable" incidents.
How would one do that? In an abundantly simple manner?


Is this somehow difficult? [Spoiler: It's not]

I get that. Punishment stops crime. It's not a difficult concept to understand. We agree on that. What I am saying is that in reality no Ref is going to make that call. The only way a Ref makes the call is if he literally hears the coaching staff yelling from the sidelines to a player to fall down and act hurt. And even then, the Ref would confer with other Refs to ask if they heard the same thing. Other than that, I do not see any Ref making THAT judgement call. There is a big difference between making a judgement of IF a guy held, IF a guy committed pass interference, IF a guy blocked illegally downfield vs. IF a guy is faking injury. Making a call on a guy faking an injury is a totally different level. Like I said before, IMO, even if the Ref is 99.99999% certain the guy is faking, he is not making that call. On the chance he is wrong, and the guy is truly hurt, the Ref would be the focus of media scrutiny.

Imagine a Ref calls a player for faking injury. The Ref throws a flag, calls a player for faking injury and gives a 15-yard penalty. After the game, the player is taken for an MRI and it's revealed he suffered a torn MCL. Many players go back into games and later find out they did something like tear an MCL. Could you imagine the heat that Ref would get. No Ref is going to put himself in that situation.

 

[katchthis]

Look....we all know it happens. The squad is driving ....lots of momentum....then....bang... someone hits the dirt like he was shot from the upper deck. I saw a coaches piece by ESPN and one of the suggestions was submitted by Mike Gundy who suggested " Any player ( offense or defense to make it fair) who leaves the field of play via an injury....should sit out until the next change of possession. What say you folks ?? Would that necessarily limit " fake injuries"?

If the player has no risk of neurological injury, two words. Fork Lift.

 

[Kiber]

Ref doesn't have to make a call.... in fact, he wouldn't. That's more or less the point. Just like it is now. Refs don't "make any call".... it is a simple rule "Injury delay = come off field for at least one play"

Simple rule (just like it is now): "Stoppage for injury.... player comes off the field until ______" Right now that "_____" is "one play".


All you gotta' do is change "one play" to whatever one determines is the proper amount to dissuade "fake injuries".


Is that really so confusing? I really can;t get my head around how/why that is anything but abundantly simple.

A

 

[Beaver-Stadium]

Very simple solution here, let's not over complicate it. You can't pick and choose which injuries are real without going down a rabbit hole. If a player is injured and can not get off the field, he must sit out at least the next 3 plays (normal 3 down series) or the team can call a time out and have him come back the next play. Makes it simple no guess work etc. Should they put me on the competition committee or what?