ADVERTISEMENT

FC: How cool would it be to show up for jury duty with a former POTUS.

I don't agree with a lot of his politics, but I have to say that he seems like a really regular guy for an ex-President. Would much rather have drinks with him than with any other recent President. He deserves a whole lot of props for stepping up and fulfilling his civic duty.
 
I don't care what your politics are, but being in a jury selection room with a former POTUS would be awesome.
Indeed it would. I am no Obama fan but I would jump at the chance to be in the same room with him.
 
I don't care what your politics are, but being in a jury selection room with a former POTUS would be awesome.

Agreed. I'd line up to hang out with Clinton and Obama. Regardless of what I think of their policies they'd have some interesting stories, and on a personal level they seem pretty down to earth.
 
Agreed. I'd line up to hang out with Clinton and Obama. Regardless of what I think of their policies they'd have some interesting stories, and on a personal level they seem pretty down to earth.
That's how I feel about GWBush. I'd love to knock back a few with him while talking baseball. No politics allowed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fairgambit
Unlike when he went AWOL during Vietnam.

Dude: I get your point, but it seems a bit harsh in the context of this thread. I never voted for W but, c'mon, he is flat out modeling what it is to be an ex-President. I can't recall any carping from him about Obama since he left office. That is pure class. (Contrast that with Dick - and I mean Dick - Cheney.) W has raised many millions for AIDS research and treatment in Africa. He has managed to do a lot of fundraising by swallowing whatever antipathy he might feel, and making numerous appearances with Bill Clinton. I applaud him.
 
Unlike when he went AWOL during Vietnam.
Never can figure out why it is important to Lefties that GW went AWOL in Imaginaryland, but Clinton is worthy of being embraced despite his lack of service.
 
Dude: I get your point, but it seems a bit harsh in the context of this thread. I never voted for W but, c'mon, he is flat out modeling what it is to be an ex-President. I can't recall any carping from him about Obama since he left office. That is pure class. (Contrast that with Dick - and I mean Dick - Cheney.) W has raised many millions for AIDS research and treatment in Africa. He has managed to do a lot of fundraising by swallowing whatever antipathy he might feel, and making numerous appearances with Bill Clinton. I applaud him.
------
Unlike Clinton who can't stay out of the limelight. And if anyone thinks O is going away quietly, they are seriously wrong.
 
Dude: I get your point, but it seems a bit harsh in the context of this thread. I never voted for W but, c'mon, he is flat out modeling what it is to be an ex-President. I can't recall any carping from him about Obama since he left office. That is pure class. (Contrast that with Dick - and I mean Dick - Cheney.) W has raised many millions for AIDS research and treatment in Africa. He has managed to do a lot of fundraising by swallowing whatever antipathy he might feel, and making numerous appearances with Bill Clinton. I applaud him.
Well said.
 
I don't agree with a lot of his politics, but I have to say that he seems like a really regular guy for an ex-President. Would much rather have drinks with him than with any other recent President. He deserves a whole lot of props for stepping up and fulfilling his civic duty.
I also don't agree at all with his politics but it would be interesting to listen to him try to use the English language. I think Clinton would easily be the most entertaining.
 
Unless there is a requirement for serving your country (military, peace corpse, etc.) then this is BS. Politicians with military service are the exception and not the rule these days.
I agree that it is BS unless you claim sevice that nobody can verify you did. In this country in a political campaign the hero can be called a coward and the guy nobody can find is called the hero. Nuts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ten Thousan Marbles
Never can figure out why it is important to Lefties that GW went AWOL in Imaginaryland, but Clinton is worthy of being embraced despite his lack of service.
It's because the lefts candidate served and was awarded medals for his service while being questioned on the merits of the awards by the other party who's candidate claimed service but nobody could find evidence of. People don't like when you claim you served and you really didn't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ten Thousan Marbles
------
cause Lefties are mean, angry people. The last happy Lefty was Hubert Humphrey.
Yes every single one of them. Just like every single Pitt fan is no good. Actually there are just as many happy lefties as there are righties. Humphrey would have made a great president.
 
Game, set and match with that one
Yeah fulfilling that jury duty erased all the bad stuff that happened during those
I guess you are inquiring about Kerry, because I can't think of another Democratic presidential candidate in the last 30 years who served... Not all of the Republican candidates have either...
Yes Kerry is who I am talking about. I believe AL Gore served in country during Vietnam but not in a combat zone. Carter and Kennedy also served . Don't know if LBJ did but in my lifetime probably more democratic Presidents served than republicans. In the last 30 years there are none.
 
I met him in a small group, got to shake his hand and speak with him for a few minutes. He then spoke to our group. Seemed like a very nice, down to earth guy. This was post presidency. I also met his Dad in a similar setting. He was also a really nice guy. In a similar setting, Bill Clinton never showed up (really) and we had Dick Gephart address the group instead. Gephart is very knowledgeable, great speaker.
 
I really don't understand all the political skirmishing over this thread. I don't care what your politics are. I don't care who you voted for. I just find it hard to believe that anyone would not be excited to be in the same jury room with a former President of the United States.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavic
I don't agree with a lot of his politics, but I have to say that he seems like a really regular guy for an ex-President. Would much rather have drinks with him than with any other recent President. He deserves a whole lot of props for stepping up and fulfilling his civic duty.
Well, let's not go overboard. I liked the OP and think it seemed cool for him to pose for pictures w/ the other folks. However, "props" aren't what's due for fulfilling your civic duty. You're SUPPOSED to fulfill civic duties. Had he not done so, then like any one of us who is not above the law, I would hope that he be found in Contempt of Court.
 
That's how I feel about GWBush. I'd love to knock back a few with him while talking baseball. No politics allowed.

It has always been said that he doesn't drink.

I think that was just PR, and you could find out...I guess.
 
I agree that it is BS unless you claim sevice that nobody can verify you did. In this country in a political campaign the hero can be called a coward and the guy nobody can find is called the hero. Nuts.

Same folks previously tried to tell us Carter was a stupid coward......

Yes, the guy who was a nuclear engineer on a US Navy submarine.

Such bravery from the peanut gallery, always.

I think Jimmy would be the guy to be with in the jury room. He'd be able to talk good sense to any hold out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavic
Well, let's not go overboard. I liked the OP and think it seemed cool for him to pose for pictures w/ the other folks. However, "props" aren't what's due for fulfilling your civic duty. You're SUPPOSED to fulfill civic duties. Had he not done so, then like any one of us who is not above the law, I would hope that he be found in Contempt of Court.
Dude: You are correct in noting that jury duty, just like voting, is a civic obligation. However, a significant portion of the electorate (I.e., jury eligible people) regards a jury summons as something terrible, and engages in all manner of maneuvers to avoid jury duty. The lying that goes on during a court's examination of the jury venire (i.e., pool of prospective jurors) is widespread and shameless.

George W. Bush, being a former President, could probably have been excused from jury duty quite easily had he wanted. The distraction of having a juror with a large security detail, of having a juror whose mere presence is intimidating to many (and whose opinion could disproportionately affect jury deliberations), and of having a juror who undoubtedly has a schedule chock full of important commitments, are just a few reasons I can come up with for him being excused. He chose none of them, and his presence in the jury pool reinforces, in a very compelling and personal fashion, the principle that all citizens (even ex-Presidents) should welcome the opportunity to shoulder their civic duty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski and fairgambit
Dude: You are correct in noting that jury duty, just like voting, is a civic obligation. However, a significant portion of the electorate (I.e., jury eligible people) regards a jury summons as something terrible, and engages in all manner of maneuvers to avoid jury duty. The lying that goes on during a court's examination of the jury venire (i.e., pool of prospective jurors) is widespread and shameless.

George W. Bush, being a former President, could probably have been excused from jury duty quite easily had he wanted. The distraction of having a juror with a large security detail, of having a juror whose mere presence is intimidating to many (and whose opinion could disproportionately affect jury deliberations), and of having a juror who undoubtedly has a schedule chock full of important commitments, are just a few reasons I can come up with for him being excused. He chose none of them, and his presence in the jury pool reinforces, in a very compelling and personal fashion, the principle that all citizens (even ex-Presidents) should welcome the opportunity to shoulder their civic duty.
I know all of that. I am a trial lawyer, & I have heard every excuse when picking juries myself. My point is, yes, it is cool that George Bush did what he was supposed to do. In my original post, I gave him due credit for that. I just don't see why some people in this thread have gone overboard praising him for it. Doing what you are supposed to do is not per se praiseworthy. Hell, by definition, that is the least obligation for being a good citizen
 
Same folks previously tried to tell us Carter was a stupid coward......

Yes, the guy who was a nuclear engineer on a US Navy submarine.

Such bravery from the peanut gallery, always.

I think Jimmy would be the guy to be with in the jury room. He'd be able to talk good sense to any hold out.
I think he might have been the
Same folks previously tried to tell us Carter was a stupid coward......

Yes, the guy who was a nuclear engineer on a US Navy submarine.

Such bravery from the peanut gallery, always.

I think Jimmy would be the guy to be with in the jury room. He'd be able to talk good sense to any hold out.
Yeah its pretty much conceded that Carter was probably the President with the most intellect. That does not always translate into a successful presidency but he is a very smart man.
 
I know all of that. I am a trial lawyer, & I have heard every excuse when picking juries myself. My point is, yes, it is cool that George Bush did what he was supposed to do. In my original post, I gave him due credit for that. I just don't see why some people in this thread have gone overboard praising him for it. Doing what you are supposed to do is not per se praiseworthy. Hell, by definition, that is the least obligation for being a good citizen
1. Didn't know you were a lawyer (sorry). Man, are there a lot of lawyers on this Board.
2. I get your point about not going overboard when it is a civic obligation, but the plain fact is that so many people shun that particular civic obligation, and I just wanted to credit him for setting good example..
3. Understand it does not counterbalance what liberals (myself included) perceive as his shortcomings while President, but I don't wanna argue politics on a football Board if I can avoid it. Resolves nothing and just pisses people off. I'd almost rather argue whether JS deserves a new trial and, believe me, I don't wanna do that, either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cavic
1. Didn't know you were a lawyer (sorry). Man, are there a lot of lawyers on this Board.
2. I get your point about not going overboard when it is a civic obligation, but the plain fact is that so many people shun that particular civic obligation, and I just wanted to credit him for setting good example..
3. Understand it does not counterbalance what liberals (myself included) perceive as his shortcomings while President, but I don't wanna argue politics on a football Board if I can avoid it. Resolves nothing and just pisses people off. I'd almost rather argue whether JS deserves a new trial and, believe me, I don't wanna do that, either.
I don't know that there are a disproportionate number of us here. We just have big mouths, so we make it seem that way***
 
Last edited:
From review...


The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work.

By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

  • Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets.

As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements.

At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of
  • 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year,

  • Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).
[ie... OVER 5 Years of Points in his 1st Year]​
  • Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970.
[ie... OVER 6 1/2 Years of Points in his 2nd Year]
  • He earned 137 points in 1970-1971.
[ie... OVER 2 1/2 Years of Points in his 3rd Year]
  • And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972.
[ie... OVER 2 Years of Points in his 4th Year]
The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

[ie. OVER 16.8 Years of points Requirements completed.]
That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,”
Campenni says.

  • The Vietnam War was winding down, and
  • the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs.
In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem.

In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.

So Bush stopped flying.

  • From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

  • In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment.

By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.

[ie. OVER 19 Years of points Requirements completed... More than 3 Times the requirement]
During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ILLINOISLION
From review...


The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work.

By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

  • Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets.

As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements.

At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of
  • 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year,

  • Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).
[ie... OVER 5 Years of Points in his 1st Year]​
  • Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970.
[ie... OVER 6 1/2 Years of Points in his 2nd Year]
  • He earned 137 points in 1970-1971.
[ie... OVER 2 1/2 Years of Points in his 3rd Year]
  • And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972.
[ie... OVER 2 Years of Points in his 4th Year]
The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

[ie. OVER 16.8 Years of points Requirements completed.]
That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,”
Campenni says.

  • The Vietnam War was winding down, and
  • the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs.
In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem.

In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.

So Bush stopped flying.

  • From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

  • In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment.

By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.

[ie. OVER 19 Years of points Requirements completed... More than 3 Times the requirement]
During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”
-------
My brother was in Vietnam and came home six weeks early in April of '71. He was discharged before he landed stateside. Does that make him a deserter?
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT