ADVERTISEMENT

FC: Financial Impact to Big 10

Sullivan

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2001
16,327
18,671
1
Rutgers faces $50M hole: Lost football season would crush Big Ten schools, including Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State

For months, officials throughout college athletics have expressed concern about the impact on its industry if the football season is wiped away by the coronavirus pandemic.

Most of the statements have been speculative, but an NJ Advance Media analysis of the financial budgets around the Big Ten shows schools in the nation’s most lucrative conference are facing potential eight- and nine-figure losses if the college football season is canceled.

Rutgers, which earns approximately $750,000 per home football game and relies on its annual Big Ten payment for nearly half of its operating budget, is facing a nearly $50 million loss in revenue if the 2020 college football season is canceled, the NJ Advance Media analysis reveals.

For now, it’s a doomsday scenario that no high-ranking college official wants to discuss publicly.

But as COVID-19 cases in the U.S. surge in dozens of states in recent weeks, there is a growing sense that the college football season will be postponed to the spring or canceled completely due to the risk of infections to players, coaches, and personnel who make the game run.

“We may not have a college football season in the Big Ten,‘' Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren told the BTN last week after the conference eliminated non-league competition for all fall sports — a move that was followed by the Pac-12 the following day.

Officials from the three other leagues that make up the Power 5 Conferences have said they’ll wait until the end of the month to decide on whether they’ll proceed with a normal fall college football season.

But on Thursday the NCAA issued new guidelines for bringing back college sports this fall. The report called for daily self-health checks, the use of face coverings during training, competition and off the field and testing strategies that include results within 72 hours of competition in high-contact sports such as football.

“The rate of spread of COVID-19 has been increasing in many regions of the country,‘' the report stated. “Because of this increase, it is possible that sports, especially high contact risk sports, may not be practiced safely in some areas. In conjunction with public health officials, schools should consider pausing or discontinuing athletics activities when local circumstances warrant such consideration.‘'

NCAA president Mark Emmert said the guidelines were intended to offer schools “the advice of health care professionals as to how to resume college sports if we can achieve an environment where COVID-19 rates are manageable.‘‘

But he conceded the recent surge of cases in football-crazed states such as Florida, Texas, California and Arizona could result in the NCAA canceling the fall season — just like it did in March when it wiped out the NCAA basketball tournaments and the entire spring sports championship season.

“When we made the extremely difficult decision to cancel last spring’s championships it was because there was simply no way to conduct them safely,” Emmert said in a statement. “Today, sadly, the data point in the wrong direction. If there is to be college sports in the fall, we need to get a much better handle on the pandemic.”

Multiple industry insiders told NJ Advance Media this week college officials are debating several options, including conference-only schedules across each Football Bowl Subdivision league. In this scenario, the typical 12-game regular season would likely be condensed to no more than 10 games.

Another scenario is college officials opt to push back the fall schedule by a few weeks in order to see how the NBA and MLB do with their startups. Both leagues begin play later this month, and professional teams having a low number of positive cases could give college athletics officials the confidence to forge ahead with a truncated football season.

A third option is the college football season is moved to the spring. While this would keep alive the hope for a season, there is also widespread skepticism of a spring format because no one knows whether there will be a vaccine or improved medical care for those infected by the virus by early 2021.

“We’d basically be kicking the can down the road by moving the season to the spring,‘' an athletics director from a Power-5 Conference school told NJ Advance Media.

Still, the AD — speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the league’s plans — said the spring scenario keeps alive the goal of recouping the millions of dollars that would be lost without a college football season.

The NJ Advance Media analysis shows the deficit schools inside the Big Ten would be facing if a college football season is postponed completely.

Combined, the 14 schools in the Big Ten could face a potential loss of more than $950 million, an analysis of the NCAA 2019 fiscal year reports of the league schools shows.

The calculus for determining the potential losses is simple: add the projected Big Ten distribution with the profit each school earns from playing a full season (ticket sales plus parking/concessions minus travel costs and game expenses) and you get a number that ranges from roughly $49 million (Rutgers) and $104 million (Ohio State).

If a college sports season were to proceed as normal, 12 of the 14 Big Ten schools at the conclusion of the 2020-21 academic year would receive a check for $54.6 million. That’s the projected full-share distribution the Big Ten provides its member schools, according to a report furnished by College Sports Solutions and published by Rutgers University in 2018.

If the college football season is canceled, that distribution would be reduced — or eliminated completely — since the money comes as a result of media-rights agreements that could be voided by the league’s TV partners. Already, Big Ten schools saw their conference-distribution reduced in fiscal year 2020 after the NCAA canceled its basketball tournament during the early stage of the pandemic in March.

In addition to the potential reduction or the elimination of the $54.6 million distribution, college football programs are facing another massive hit to a high-value number in its annual budget: ticket sales.

College football programs will certainly see decreased attendance totals at games this season. That much is clear. But while some schools are holding out hope to go with a 25% seating capacity, a more likely scenario is the majority of teams will play in empty stadiums this fall.

At Ohio State, an empty stadium would result in a potential $50 million loss. That’s how much the school received in football ticket revenue during the 2018 season, according to its most recent publicly available financial report.

Combined, 13 of the 14 Big Ten schools with publicly available documents — Northwestern, as a private school, does not disclose its annual athletics budget — face potential losses totaling $952.55 million.

Big Ten Faces Massive Losses Without Football Game Days

Like all its Big Ten brethren, Rutgers faces a staggering potential loss if football is not played this fall. The N.J. school brings in roughly $4.45 million annually in football game profit and $103.25 million in total revenue.

Ohio State
$104.3 million loss
Michigan
$98.2 million loss
Penn State
$91.3 million loss
Nebraska
$85.3 million loss
Wisconsin
$81.6 million loss
Iowa
$74.1 million loss
Michigan State
$71.0 million loss
Minnesota
$60.9 million loss
Purdue
$60.1 million loss
Indiana
$59.5 million loss
Maryland
$58.9 million loss
Illinois
$58.6 million loss
Rutgers
$48.8 million loss
Chart: Keith Sargeant & Nick Devlin | NJ Advance Media Source: NCAA Fiscal Reports, 2019 Get the data Created with Datawrapper


What about the cost savings?
The potential losses don’t factor in the amount Big Ten schools would save from having a fall without the non-revenue sports being played.

But the savings, documents show, add up to a small fraction of the potential losses from not having a football season and there are millions of dollars in coaching salaries, recruiting costs and equipment needs that are guaranteed to be on the football ledger with or without a season.

The fall Olympic sports such as men’s and women’s soccer, field hockey and volleyball result in a red number on the financial ledgers at most colleges across the country.

At Rutgers, the men’s soccer ($188,923), women’s soccer ($355,093), field hockey ($188,407) and the volleyball ($358,558) programs combined to cost $1.1 million in game expenses and travel expenditures, according to the university’s most recent athletics fiscal report. Rutgers is still paying the bills tied to coaching salaries, scholarships, equipment and recruiting that add up to $5.1 million for the four sports teams.

“There’s uncertainty in athletics (and) there’s uncertainty across the university,‘' Rutgers athletics director Pat Hobbs said in an interview with The Associated Press in June. “Once you have (a plan), you’re going to have to make financial adjustments.”

In April, the university announced that Hobbs and Rutgers’ three highest-paid coaches — football coach Greg Schiano, men’s basketball coach Steve Pikiell and women’s basketball coach C. Vivian Stringerwould take 10% pay reductions through August.

“There will be less revenue from some of the usual sources, but there are also significant cost savings through the spring months,‘' Hobbs told NJ Advance Media in April. “Travel costs, recruiting budgets, food — all of those types of things (result in) significant savings. Through the remainder of the year, on a net basis, we look to be fine. The concern is should we go deep into the new academic year, how do you handle those financial concerns?”

A lost college football season would likely result in a multi-billion dollar loss in the industry overall when one combines the money raked in from media-rights contracts and football-game profits nationally.

And it’s why one leading advocate for student-athletes rights questioned whether conference commissioners, college ADs and university presidents should be making the decisions on whether to play the college football season this fall.

“Believe me, they’re already making these decisions based off of finances,‘' Ramogi Huma, executive director for the National College Players Association, an advocacy group for student-athlete rights, told NJ Advance Media. “A big reason why the Ivy League pulled the plug (on a fall college football season) is because they don’t stand to lose the same amounts of money as the Power 5 Conferences. Why are we even talking about still playing? Because football brings in virtually all of the money for these athletics departments. That’s why.‘‘

Huma said the coronavirus pandemic is “laying bare the truth about college sports.‘'

“A player’s health and safety has never been a priority,‘' he said. “They’re unpaid, without any representation, and they’re used and abused to make coaches and conference commissioners rich and to give colleges a lot of branding and advertising. That’s pretty much the function. Those that benefit are the coaches, the ADs and the conference commissioners, who are the ones driving going forward with a season.‘'

“Who has a conflict of interest in terms of (deciding) it’s safe or unsafe to play but there’s money to be gained or lost? It’s the ADs and the commissioners who stand personally to potentially lose a lot of money if those presidents say, ‘You know what, the season got canceled (so) we’re gonna have to rework or suspend your salary.’ That’s why many of them are so adamant. They can talk about other things but that’s why.‘‘

What Huma doesn’t want to see happen is college ADs decide to minimize a fraction of their athletics’ spending budget by cutting non-revenue sports. It’s already happened at 19 Division I schools, according to an Insider.com report, and resulted in the loss of 57 teams combined.

“We’re advocating heavily for preserving non-revenue sports,‘' Huma said. “What people don’t realize is those non-revenue sports are actually revenue generators for the schools. Because, in most of those sports, their players are not on full scholarships, and that means they’re paying 40 to 60 percent of their tuition, their room and board and other bills that are revenue generators for the university. Some ADs are using this as an excuse to remove their Olympic sports, but those are actually revenue generators at most institutions.‘'


YPTHZLCO4VAL3NMDYBXAGTJMBQ.jpg

If there's a football season in 2020, Rutgers will look to improve on its 2-10 record from 2019. Andrew Mills | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com


What’s the cash-flow solution?
It’s no secret that Rutgers’ annual athletics budget is heavily subsidized by a combination of the university’s general fund, student fees and loans from the university and the Big Ten. The school’s athletics fiscal report from the 2018-19 season shows a $45.2 million shortfall in a $103.2 million budget that was made up by $14.5 million in support from the university’s operating fund, $12.1 million in student fees, $15.4 million from an internal loan and $3.2 million in direct state or government support.

But Rutgers is the exception when it comes to schools in the Big Ten that lose money, financial documents around the league show.

No Big Ten school rakes in more money than Ohio State, which reported $210.5 million in revenue on its 2019 fiscal year report.

But since 28.4 percent of that total is made up from $59.8 million in overall ticket sales — and because fans might be prohibited from attending football and basketball games in the 2020-21 season — Buckeyes athletics director Gene Smith said the fiscal fallout could prove more impactful than the recession that hit the nation about a decade ago.

“This one is a lot more devastating,” Smith said, via the Columbus Dispatch in April.

Michigan produced $197.8 million in athletics revenue in 2018-19 thanks to a football program that tallied $122.2 million in operating revenues, the university’s fiscal report shows.

But late last month Michigan athletics director Warde Manuel presented a budget to the university’s governing board that showed a 31.4 percent decrease in revenue for the 2020-21 year. The department, Manuel said, projects a deficit based on operating revenues of $135.8 million and projected expenses of $161.9 million.

Manuel said the deficits were based on the notion that revenues from ticket sales will likely decrease 50 percent between fiscal-year 2020 and fiscal-year 2021.

“There is still a lot of turbulence about what’s going to happen,” Manuel told the board, according to the Detroit News.

One solution to what Michigan officials expect to be a $65 million revenue loss from last year is to work with the university on a debt-service plan to cover its deficit. It’s a measure that some of the top-revenue producing Big Ten schools could likely take, but one that might not fly at Rutgers, which has no shortage of critics who bemoan the annual subsidies given to the athletics department.

Rutgers’ annual fiscal-year documents show the athletics department’s deficit to be $444.5 million since 2003-04.

The question of how a financially strapped Rutgers program would pay its bills without making drastic decision such as cutting sports or massive layoffs to administrative and support staff is unknown.

But one Power 5 Conference school official told NJ Advance Media this week some college officials have suggested the Big Ten takes out a bank-funded bridge loan and uses it as the distribution in the upcoming fiscal year. If the media-rights agreements are altered or voided altogether, the conference bailout might be the cash-flow solution, the school official said.

“Obviously there’s a lot of lost revenue and this is just a reckoning of the exorbitant expenditures in college sports,‘' Huma said. “As they look to mitigate this, there needs to be a reset. Are these schools going to incur losses or are they going to change the salary structure in the meantime? It’s not an automatic that they have to lose as much as they’re going to lose.‘‘

Here’s how each Big Ten school would be impacted financially, according to the NJ Advance Media analysis:

Ohio State

Total revenue: $210.55 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 24 %. Football-game profit: $49.63 million. Potential loss: $104.27 million.

Michigan

Total revenue: $197.82 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 23.4 %. Football-game profit: $43.53 million. Potential loss: $98.17 million.

Penn State

Total revenue: $164.53 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 22.4 %. Football-game profit: $36.66 million. Potential loss: $91.29 million.

Nebraska

Total revenue: $136.23 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 22.1 %. Football-game profit: $30.66 million. Potential loss: $85.3 million.

Wisconsin

Total revenue: $157.66 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 15.2 %. Football-game profit: $26.97 million. Potential loss: $81.6 million.

Iowa

Total revenues: $151.97 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 14.6 %. Football-game profit: $19.46 million. Potential loss: $74.09 million.

Michigan State

Total revenue: $140 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 14.1 %. Football-game profit: $16.37 million. Potential loss: $71 million.

Minnesota

Total revenue: $130.46 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 7.2 %. Football-game profit: $6.28 million. Potential loss: $60.91 million.

Purdue

Total revenue: $110.84 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 7.2 %. Football-game profit: $5.47 million. Potential loss: $60.11 million.

Indiana

Total revenue: $127.83 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 5.3 %. Football-game profit: $4.85 million. Potential loss: $59.48 million.

Maryland

Total revenue: $108.8 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 5.5 %. Football-game profit: $4.25 million. Potential loss: $58.89 million *


* Maryland received an advance on its future Big Ten distributions and reportedly has a payback on a $66 million loan. The USA TODAY reported Maryland’s future Big Ten revenue shares will be adjusted accordingly.

Illinois

Total revenue: $118.57 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 5.2 %. Football-game profit: $4.01 million. Potential loss: $58.64 million.

Rutgers

Total revenue: $103.25 million. Total revenue from football ticket sales: 7.8 %. Football-game profit: $4.45 million. Potential loss: $48.76 million *

* As a result of two loans from the Big Ten totaling $48 million, Rutgers is scheduled to see a decrease in its full-share distribution in the 2021 through the 2026 fiscal years. Rutgers’ 2021 Big Ten distribution will be $43.7 million, according to the CSS report released by the university in 2018.



Here’s a look at Rutgers’ football revenues/earnings figures since 2007:

  • FY2007: $15.7M revenue; $15.7M expenses (Subsidized $3.7M in university support/student fees)
  • FY2008: $18.8M revenue; $18.8M expenses (Subsidized $2.5M in university support/student fees)
  • FY2009: $22.4M revenue; $22.4M expenses (Subsidized $3.3M in university support/student fees)
  • FY2010: $26.8M revenue; $26.8M expenses (Subsidized $2.8M in university support/student fees)
  • FY2011: $19.5M revenue; $19.5M expenses (Subsidized $1.3M in university support)
  • FY2012: $21.4M revenue; $21.3M expenses (No subsidy; $61,161 surplus)
  • FY2013: $19.7M revenue; $19.7M expenses (Subsidized $419,918 in university support)
  • FY2014: $21.7M revenue; $19.7M expenses (No subsidy; $2M surplus)
  • FY2015: $26.7M revenue; $18.6M expenses (No subsidy; $8.1M surplus)
  • FY2016: $28.7M revenue; $25.2M expenses (No subsidy; $3.5M surplus)
  • FY2017: $19.5M revenue; $27.7M expenses (No subsidy; $8.2M deficit)
  • FY2018: $11.77M revenue; $26.87M (No subsidy; $15.1M deficit)
  • FY2019: $14.76M revenue; $27.08M expenses (No subsidy; $12.3M deficit)

https://www.nj.com/rutgers/2020/07/...including-ohio-state-michigan-penn-state.html
 
  • Like
Reactions: NedFromYork
Meh....what’s $950 million? Just shut it down and hide under the bed.
 
So some suggested that the Big Ten borrows to fund its normal distributions to member-schools.

 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan
The numbers are credible but the article is biased IMO. It says things like the schools have never cared about player safety and that non revenue sports contribute a lot of revenue to the schools.

One thing they don't mention is the non university jobs impacted by not playing football. Security personnel, restaurants, hotels, clothing sales, etc. The impact on these towns will be devastating.
 
Financial impact aside - and I thought the information provided was helpful - at this point, I honestly don't care if there is a college football season or not. If they play, I will watch. If they don't play - I will find something else to do.

Other than a few hours in front of my TV on Saturdays in the fall, I have no other real investment - I don't have season tickets, or hotel rooms or other obligations that I have sunk into college football. (Other than the time spent on this board).

If PSU loses $91MM - OK. It won't be anything out of my pocket.
 
If PSU loses $91MM - OK. It won't be anything out of my pocket.

That's just for football. How much does the university lose because if people aren't living in dorms and eating in cafeterias? And who wants to pay the same tuition for online lectures?

This can go on for a short period of time. Schools can dig into their endowments and some business owners can survive with government bailouts. But how long can that continue?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
Financial impact aside - and I thought the information provided was helpful - at this point, I honestly don't care if there is a college football season or not. If they play, I will watch. If they don't play - I will find something else to do.

Other than a few hours in front of my TV on Saturdays in the fall, I have no other real investment - I don't have season tickets, or hotel rooms or other obligations that I have sunk into college football. (Other than the time spent on this board).

If PSU loses $91MM - OK. It won't be anything out of my pocket.

Ok with you if half the businesses in state college end up closing permanently?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChiTownLion
That's just for football. How much does the university lose because if people aren't living in dorms and eating in cafeterias? And who wants to pay the same tuition for online lectures?

This can go on for a short period of time. Schools can dig into their endowments and some business owners can survive with government bailouts. But how long can that continue?

So explain how this digging into endowments thingie works.
 
There is going to be a shakeout. The environment for college sports is changing. COVID-19 is only accelerating the change. It's like the changes we've seen in brick and mortar retail the past few years. Penn State is strong enough to survive but they need to start pruning some branches if they want to emerge healthy. I'm only talking about the athletic program but it could apply to the whole university.
 
That's just for football. How much does the university lose because if people aren't living in dorms and eating in cafeterias? And who wants to pay the same tuition for online lectures?

This can go on for a short period of time. Schools can dig into their endowments and some business owners can survive with government bailouts. But how long can that continue?
Options for covering budget shortfalls, at least at PSU, won't include tapping into endowments. Most endowment funds are restricted, to the point where even interest earned is earmarked. It's either borrow or cut to cover expenses, and with the former, one cannot indefinitely perform accounting gymnastics to cover it.
 
Ok with you if half the businesses in state college end up closing permanently?

Of course people in State College will feel pain - no doubt. But businesses close and new businesses open. It has been going on in State College and other places forever. Comparing State College when I was a student to what is now is night and day. A number of the businesses don't exist - like Woolworth or the Gingerbread Man. Roy Rogers, Manhattan Bagels, The Rathskellar, - new businesses came in and took their place.

You are acting like if Penn State does not have football this season, it creates a permanent end to the businesses in town. It won't. It's not like the coal mines of Pa that died out when the coal was gone.

But your question was whether I was "OK" with it. It's not a matter of whether I am OK or not OK with it. But since you asked - my answer is - it's part of the business cycle. When an entity relies heavily on a single source of revenue, it puts itself in these positions.
 
That's just for football. How much does the university lose because if people aren't living in dorms and eating in cafeterias? And who wants to pay the same tuition for online lectures?

This can go on for a short period of time. Schools can dig into their endowments and some business owners can survive with government bailouts. But how long can that continue?
I get it - but I don't really have any financial ties to the University other than what I spend on going to football games.

Beyond that - I really don't care.
 
Of course people in State College will feel pain - no doubt. But businesses close and new businesses open. It has been going on in State College and other places forever. Comparing State College when I was a student to what is now is night and day. A number of the businesses don't exist - like Woolworth or the Gingerbread Man. Roy Rogers, Manhattan Bagels, The Rathskellar, - new businesses came in and took their place.

You are acting like if Penn State does not have football this season, it creates a permanent end to the businesses in town. It won't. It's not like the coal mines of Pa that died out when the coal was gone.

But your question was whether I was "OK" with it. It's not a matter of whether I am OK or not OK with it. But since you asked - my answer is - it's part of the business cycle. When an entity relies heavily on a single source of revenue, it puts itself in these positions.

How many of the business you cited ceased to exist simultaneously?

If half of downtown state college closes up shop January 1, you’re smoking something if you think all of those spaces are filled with new businesses quickly. How many are going to be eager to invest in a town where you’re reliant on a single entity for revenue.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
Financial impact aside - and I thought the information provided was helpful - at this point, I honestly don't care if there is a college football season or not. If they play, I will watch. If they don't play - I will find something else to do.

Other than a few hours in front of my TV on Saturdays in the fall, I have no other real investment - I don't have season tickets, or hotel rooms or other obligations that I have sunk into college football. (Other than the time spent on this board).

If PSU loses $91MM - OK. It won't be anything out of my pocket.
That is where I am. I do make an exception on the last comment about "it won't be out of my pocket." I don't agree with that. There is going to be a massive revenue loss for small businesses, large businesses, and universities. This is going to take a big bite out of our economy which means our, collective, opportunities. At the same time, research will have to be cut back so future opportunities will also be stymied. Taxes will be raised, taking a bite out of our purchasing power. And other govt funding will have to be cut (public schools, libraries, road maintenance, etc.).

So it won't be out of "my" pocket directly, but it will certainly hurt all of our lifestyles.
 
How many of the business you cited ceased to exist simultaneously?
I have no idea. But they ceased. But that is not really the point you want to make is it?

You want me to be upset that Penn State may not have football and that it will affect the State College community. And I am not. I am not for it negatively impacting the State College community either, but beyond whining on this board, there is not much I can do is there?
 
That is where I am. I do make an exception on the last comment about "it won't be out of my pocket." I don't agree with that. There is going to be a massive revenue loss for small businesses, large businesses, and universities. This is going to take a big bite out of our economy which means our, collective, opportunities. At the same time, research will have to be cut back so future opportunities will also be stymied. Taxes will be raised, taking a bite out of our purchasing power. And other govt funding will have to be cut (public schools, libraries, road maintenance, etc.).

So it won't be out of "my" pocket directly, but it will certainly hurt all of our lifestyles.
The out of pocket issues in SC will not be a burden on me.

The issue at hand is how this affects SC and PSU - not society in general. As someone who does engineering work for local government, I am acutely aware of the burden that a lack of ratables and tax base have on a community, including my vocation.

I realize what point you are trying to make- the same as FastLax16 - but the perspective I am providing you is that as someone not in SC, not in Pa, not affiliated with PSU beyond being an alum - none of this really bothers me at this point. I can't control what the Big Ten, NCAA or State College community do. I can only control what I do. And my choice is to let it play out and make the best of the situation presented to me, as it is presented to me.
 
I have no idea. But they ceased. But that is not really the point you want to make is it?

You want me to be upset that Penn State may not have football and that it will affect the State College community. And I am not. I am not for it negatively impacting the State College community, but beyond whining on this board, there is not much I can do is there?

The point I made wasn’t a business closing is bad for the town (they close all the time). The point was businesses closing en masse is bad.

One business closing does not have the same impact as 50 in quick succession in small town.
 
The out of pocket issues in SC will not be a burden on me.

The issue at hand is how this affects SC and PSU - not society in general. As someone who does engineering work for local government, I am acutely aware of the burden that a lack of ratables and tax base have on a community, including my vocation.

I realize what point you are trying to make- the same as FastLax16 - but the perspective I am providing you is that as someone not in SC, not in Pa, not affiliated with PSU beyond being an alum - none of this really bothers me at this point. I can't control what the Big Ten, NCAA or State College community do. I can only control what I do. And my choice is to let it play out and make the best of the situation presented to me, as it is presented to me.

I live halfway across the country and haven’t been back in 2 or 3 years. State College dying a slow death would bother me.
 
The out of pocket issues in SC will not be a burden on me.

The issue at hand is how this affects SC and PSU - not society in general. As someone who does engineering work for local government, I am acutely aware of the burden that a lack of ratables and tax base have on a community, including my vocation.

I realize what point you are trying to make- the same as FastLax16 - but the perspective I am providing you is that as someone not in SC, not in Pa, not affiliated with PSU beyond being an alum - none of this really bothers me at this point. I can't control what the Big Ten, NCAA or State College community do. I can only control what I do. And my choice is to let it play out and make the best of the situation presented to me, as it is presented to me.
roger that. State college is not a lot different than every other community. In fact, the university adds into the tax base for the state. IDK if you live in PA, NY, NJ or whatever....but every single state will be impacted.

But I understand what you are saying. You don't really care about anyone else.
 
roger that. State college is not a lot different than every other community. In fact, the university adds into the tax base for the state. IDK if you live in PA, NY, NJ or whatever....but every single state will be impacted.

But I understand what you are saying. You don't really care about anyone else.
Well, not in so many words. I wear a mask and stay 6 feet from everyone, so I do care.o_O

But, you are welcome to think what you want.
 
Well, not in so many words. I wear a mask and stay 6 feet from everyone, so I do care.o_O

But, you are welcome to think what you want.
it is funny how people pick and choose their "charity" and then align their thoughts to feel good about themselves. Not a personal shot at you, a general observation. Its a tough call. These players, the kids, are being put in a tough position (as are students). No easy answers either way.
 
I live halfway across the country and haven’t been back in 2 or 3 years. State College dying a slow death would bother me.

It won't. PSU, unlike a private business, isn't going to fold up and move to the Carolinas or some other place because of a positive financial situation. SC will always have PSU.

And as for your other point about business closing en masse, I am not sure if that will happen, because so much of that depends on how much each business depends on PSU football for revenue, and if the owners are smart enough/savvy enough to have diversified their income stream.

The thing is, none of us know what will happen. And we don't have any metrics from the past to know what would happen if PSU did not have football. Because it's never happened. PSU has fielded a team and played a season since the inception of a football program. And I would imagine State College has recieved some financial benefit from PSU football from day one. The only time anything like this ever happened that I can think of would be WWII - and PSU fielded teams even when other schools did not. So, we simply do not know what will happen.
 
it is funny how people pick and choose their "charity" and then align their thoughts to feel good about themselves. Not a personal shot at you, a general observation. Its a tough call. These players, the kids, are being put in a tough position (as are students). No easy answers either way.

Yeah they are. It's something completely out of their hands.

But if something is affecting society, isn't it natural to look to protect one's own interests first?

Flip this around - do you think Sandy and CJF are sitting on a Zoom call wondering how Covid is affecting the finances of my employer and my personal well being? I am gonna guess - no. They are worried about the finances of their employer and their well being.
 
Of course people in State College will feel pain - no doubt. But businesses close and new businesses open. It has been going on in State College and other places forever. Comparing State College when I was a student to what is now is night and day. A number of the businesses don't exist - like Woolworth or the Gingerbread Man. Roy Rogers, Manhattan Bagels, The Rathskellar, - new businesses came in and took their place.

You are acting like if Penn State does not have football this season, it creates a permanent end to the businesses in town. It won't. It's not like the coal mines of Pa that died out when the coal was gone.

But your question was whether I was "OK" with it. It's not a matter of whether I am OK or not OK with it. But since you asked - my answer is - it's part of the business cycle. When an entity relies heavily on a single source of revenue, it puts itself in these positions.

I partly agree with that. If you assume that the virus will eventually resolve itself there will be new investors to come in and pick up the pieces. They'll be happy to buy assets at a big discount and start over. But the owners, employees, suppliers, creditors, etc will take a big "one time" permanent hit. Same with the government who will have lost substantial tax revenues.

Things might eventually get back to normal but the losses are real and permanent.
 
Yeah they are. It's something completely out of their hands.

But if something is affecting society, isn't it natural to look to protect one's own interests first?

Flip this around - do you think Sandy and CJF are sitting on a Zoom call wondering how Covid is affecting the finances of my employer and my personal well being? I am gonna guess - no. They are worried about the finances of their employer and their well being.
I really don't disagree with you. For me, I believe I am OK. At this point in my life, I have saved and will probably be comfortable financially unless we all thunderdome. But I have kids and friends. To you point, you can only control what you can control. I've started to be pretty religious about buying American and trying to support local businesses. I've spent more, recently, than I should. But I've done so feeling that it is good for someone who can to support the economy "in these challenging times". I would encourage everyone to do so.

Sadly, a lot is going to fall on the shoulders of 18-22 year old kids and their families. They are probably not a great risk (looking at charts in how this virus affects this age group) but we are asking them to a) not see their families or b) put their families at risk. And if they do play, they will be supporting a cause bigger than themselves. Yeah, football is a game. But it is more of a business than a game. And business is the fuel of progress in science, entertainment, and quality of life. That means something.

I've got no silver bullet and no easy answers. I don't think anybody does. I honestly don't think our best and brightest scientists have a clue as to what is going on. Be smart and make good decisions.
 
I get it - but I don't really have any financial ties to the University other than what I spend on going to football games.

Beyond that - I really don't care.
I care. It's not just about PSU or football. It's about every university and millions of other businesses and individuals across the nation. It's about recent graduates being able to find a job.

I certainly don't have all the answers but I am definitely in the camp that says we can't allow the cure to be worse than the disease. I'm all for wearing masks in crowded areas, social distancing, and making other reasonable accomodations. I am not for shutting things down indefinitely. The cost is just too high.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obliviax
The numbers are credible but the article is biased IMO. It says things like the schools have never cared about player safety and that non revenue sports contribute a lot of revenue to the schools.

One thing they don't mention is the non university jobs impacted by not playing football. Security personnel, restaurants, hotels, clothing sales, etc. The impact on these towns will be devastating.

It would be devastating for State College and I guess it wouldn't be much better for places like Iowa City, or Bloomington.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan
It would be devastating for State College and I guess it wouldn't be much better for places like Iowa City, or Bloomington.
I was at the local high-end outside mall last weekend (Crocker Park). I'd say that 1/5th of all businesses were permanently out of business. I had to go to the apple store and local ones that were toast were restaurants, Charming Charlies, Brio chain, etc. My wife was downtown yesterday, CLE, and said that every single business was, at least, temporarily closed and boarded up. People are already taking major life hits. As you stated, the cost of not having sports would be devastating. Hope it doesn't come to that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan
I care. It's not just about PSU or football. It's about every university and millions of other businesses and individuals across the nation. It's about recent graduates being able to find a job.

I certainly don't have all the answers but I am definitely in the camp that says we can't allow the cure to be worse than the disease. I'm all for wearing masks in crowded areas, social distancing, and making other reasonable accomodations. I am not for shutting things down indefinitely. The cost is just too high.
OK, you care. But what can you really do about it? Complain on this board? Knock on the door of the Big Ten offices and demand they play a full schedule in front of full stadiums?

Some time ago, there was a thread about sports being an opportunity to get away from life's problems and issues (paraphrasing here). My comment then is the same as my comment now - sports are part of the fabric of society and not exempt from it. Socio-political, economic and national issues have impact on all of society and not just parts of it.
 
OK, you care. But what can you really do about it? Complain on this board?

That's what we do on this board everyday. Do you think Sandy listens to us about things like facilities and scheduling? Do you think Franklin offers scholarships or makes play calls based on our opinions?

It's not complaining, it's sharing opinions.
 
OK, you care. But what can you really do about it? Complain on this board? Knock on the door of the Big Ten offices and demand they play a full schedule in front of full stadiums?

Some time ago, there was a thread about sports being an opportunity to get away from life's problems and issues (paraphrasing here). My comment then is the same as my comment now - sports are part of the fabric of society and not exempt from it. Socio-political, economic and national issues have impact on all of society and not just parts of it.
My opinion is that you are conflating the game of the sport with the business of the sport. People pay to be entertained. If they are not entertained they won't watch. If they don't' watch, the business of sports dies. It may not be 100%, but it will be 5, 10 40 (who knows).

This kids can go play football but if nobody pays to watch them...well, if a tree falls in the forest and doesn't make a sound....

Great questions...

tenor.gif
 
My opinion is that you are conflating the game of the sport with the business of the sport. People pay to be entertained. If they are not entertained they won't watch. If they don't' watch, the business of sports dies. It may not be 100%, but it will be 5, 10 40 (who knows).

This kids can go play football but if nobody pays to watch them...well, if a tree falls in the forest and doesn't make a sound....

Great questions...

tenor.gif

No- the issue I am discussing is the relationship between PSU football and State College businesses. There is relationship - I whole heartedly agree. I also believe that businesses will be affected by a lack of football this fall (if that happens).

How much?
Whom will it affect?
I don't know. And there is not much I can do about it.

Sports is no different than any other aspect of our society - it gets affected by national, socio-political and other issues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obliviax
Clearly the problem is huge.

Can you play before a virtually or completely empty stadium? Maybe- but what do you do when players or coaches or trainers or pilots or truck drivers or bus drivers or their immediate families get sick? Or die?

Can you put teams and coaches in a "bubble"? And even if you can, what does that do for the local businesses who rely on fans coming to town?
 
I care. It's not just about PSU or football. It's about every university and millions of other businesses and individuals across the nation. It's about recent graduates being able to find a job.

I certainly don't have all the answers but I am definitely in the camp that says we can't allow the cure to be worse than the disease. I'm all for wearing masks in crowded areas, social distancing, and making other reasonable accomodations. I am not for shutting things down indefinitely. The cost is just too high.
This is exactly right....this is not just a problem PSU faces. My daughter lost her job at one university and just got one at another university. If they don’t come back to school and/or have football, she might lose this job as well. Even if someone doesn’t live near State College, they likely have a university close to their area that will negatively impact their local economy if they don’t play football or get back to normal sometime soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bdgan
So, since we have all agreed that this is a problem - what action does everyone think they should take to alleviate the problem?

Just talking about it on this board? Whining and bitching about the politics associated with the decisions made?

Or - head up to State College and visit and patronize the potentially impacted businesses?

Anyone and everyone talks about problems- but you have a chance to actually do something to alleviate the problem - actually take action - will you? If it's that important to you - will you take action?
 
This is exactly right....this is not just a problem PSU faces. My daughter lost her job at one university and just got one at another university. If they don’t come back to school and/or have football, she might lose this job as well. Even if someone doesn’t live near State College, they likely have a university close to their area that will negatively impact their local economy if they don’t play football or get back to normal sometime soon.
Absolutely correct. I'm not necessarily saying we should have football this fall. I'm just saying that there are a lot of things that should be considered. It's not as simple as saying it's risky so don't do it. Going to Home Depot or a garden center is also risky but we haven't closed those down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AWS1022
Absolutely correct. I'm not necessarily saying we should have football this fall. I'm just saying that there are a lot of things that should be considered. It's not as simple as saying it's risky so don't do it. Going to Home Depot or a garden center is also risky but we haven't closed those down.
My wife works in a pharmacy in a grocery store....they’ve been open the whole time and not a single case of Covid for any of the employees. My son’s girlfriend is a nurse and has been working since the beginning, not a single case. I’m not sure how these essential businesses have functioned throughout the whole pandemic, but everything else has to shut down.
 
So, since we have all agreed that this is a problem - what action does everyone think they should take to alleviate the problem?

Just talking about it on this board? Whining and bitching about the politics associated with the decisions made?

Or - head up to State College and visit and patronize the potentially impacted businesses?

Anyone and everyone talk about problems- but you have a chance to actually do something to alleviate the problem - actually take action - will you? If it's that important to you - will you take action?
I'd
  • let the kids play or not play. the kids that chose to not play will be granted an additional year of eligibility and not be penalized in any other way.
  • I'd play to, at least, preserve the TV revenue for the universities
  • I'd admit a limited number...perhaps every other seat, 50k for PSU
  • I'd make masks mandatory in the stadium and in paid parking
  • I'd open up talks on where to play....makes no sense for PSU to play in a small stadium so if there is an away game for PSU at Northwestern, why not play that in a bigger venue so you can get more paid attendees?
 
I'd
  • let the kids play or not play. the kids that chose to not play will be granted an additional year of eligibility and not be penalized in any other way.
  • I'd play to, at least, preserve the TV revenue for the universities
  • I'd admit a limited number...perhaps every other seat, 50k for PSU
  • I'd make masks mandatory in the stadium and in paid parking
  • I'd open up talks on where to play....makes no sense for PSU to play in a small stadium so if there is an away game for PSU at Northwestern, why not play that in a bigger venue so you can get more paid attendees?
You would do none of that - you are not in charge of the football program and cannot make those mandates.

Read my post again - I thought the question was straightforward but apparently not, so I will rephrase

Q: "As a Penn State fan/alum, what can you do within your abilities to alleviate potential financial hardship on businesses in State College if the football season is cancelled and/or interrupted."
 
You would do none of that - you are not in charge of the football program and cannot make those mandates.

Read my post again - I thought the question was straightforward but apparently not, so I will rephrase

Q: "As a Penn State fan/alum, what can you do within your abilities to alleviate potential financial hardship on businesses in State College if the football season is canceled and/or interrupted."

You can support your local small biz. If you don't live in SC, you can try to visit and patronize a bit, at least. You can also mail order PSU gear from various businesses.

In the end, though, you can ask the university to go through with the season and not pucker up with fear. And that is why I answered the way I did..its all about personal choice. If a player doesn't want to play, no problem. If he does, play the games with every feasible precaution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NC2017
ADVERTISEMENT