Family that owns Purdue Pharma, maker of Oxycontin,

[Carl Spackler]

Throw it out with the regular trash.
I asked about just taking it back to the pharmacy and hospice advised against. I have no idea why. I suppose if you really wanted to dispose of this materal in a foolproof way it would require high temperature incineration.

Any discontinued med that I have unused portions of are taken back to the doctors office (pain mgt. practice) and they grind them up in front of me to assure all involved that they were destroyed. Actually, I do not know what they do with the ground up residue, how the dispose of it but I know they watch dog all drugs carefully as they are a target for theft within the office and take measure to counter any external and internal pilfering.

In an earlier post Obliviax mentioned a neighbor who had a traumatic auto accident where his wife was killed and he tragically injured to the point of having chronic pain all day, every day, all year, every year. This is similar to my situation only mine began at age 19 in 1973 on Christmas break from my sophomore year at dear old state. This has been going on for two plus generations and if my medication cocktail was removed I would have only one option remaining, the final solution as it would be unbearable, intolerable and unimaginable. I know because I lost my meds suddenly last August, complete withdrawal. Labor Day weekend in the hospital due to complications. This went on for four months until I reestablished the method of delivery that had failed in August.

I've disclosed more than I planned yet this subject is very real to me because I have friends across the nation in similar situations that are having their pain control meds drastically reduced or removed completely. The "one size fits all" comment earlier is spot on and a govt. staple. Zero tolerance, we will decide your dose, everyone is the same, your doctor no longer sets your dose or if they do and its a bit higher than WE think is necessary we will shut them down and remove their license but will give them an orange jump suit, free housing and three squares a day....a big threat that causes doctors to comply or suffer themselves. Big brother and the media driven frenzy to universally equate and demonize all opiates across the board is leaving the most vulnerable underrepresented and leading to more deaths not very far away. Then what law will be changed? None I bet. No media coverage of the unfortunates, left out and finally.....left down.

No one wants those who illegally use street drugs to die from it yet they will. It is rare that a legitimate chronic pain patient dies from prescribed medication unless it is a planned event, not a mistake. Stopping the heroin and illicit fentanyl trade onto the streets of our nation is a noble work but its a fight that prohibition failed at in the 1920's. Some people like the drugs, illegal is not a hindrance. The difference is that they do not know the strength of the product, it's not labeled and uniformly processed to a precision spec. Not trying to be silly but drug seeking behaviors are endemic to some of our population. Like alcoholics the continue back to the trough for more and more. No law will stop them, maybe make it more expensive and difficult but it won't stop it. It will save some lives until the loop holes and methods of circumvention are discovered. Then we will be back to the same point only my subset will now be marginalized as they currently happen to be in this climate of sensationalism and political pandering sound bites.

 

[demlion]

Any discontinued med that I have unused portions of are taken back to the doctors office (pain mgt. practice) and they grind them up in front of me to assure all involved that they were destroyed. Actually, I do not know what they do with the ground up residue, how the dispose of it but I know they watch dog all drugs carefully as they are a target for theft within the office and take measure to counter any external and internal pilfering.

In an earlier post Obliviax mentioned a neighbor who had a traumatic auto accident where his wife was killed and he tragically injured to the point of having chronic pain all day, every day, all year, every year. This is similar to my situation only mine began at age 19 in 1973 on Christmas break from my sophomore year at dear old state. This has been going on for two plus generations and if my medication cocktail was removed I would have only one option remaining, the final solution as it would be unbearable, intolerable and unimaginable. I know because I lost my meds suddenly last August, complete withdrawal. Labor Day weekend in the hospital due to complications. This went on for four months until I reestablished the method of delivery that had failed in August.

I've disclosed more than I planned yet this subject is very real to me because I have friends across the nation in similar situations that are having their pain control meds drastically reduced or removed completely. The "one size fits all" comment earlier is spot on and a govt. staple. Zero tolerance, we will decide your dose, everyone is the same, your doctor no longer sets your dose or if they do and its a bit higher than WE think is necessary we will shut them down and remove their license but will give them an orange jump suit, free housing and three squares a day....a big threat that causes doctors to comply or suffer themselves. Big brother and the media driven frenzy to universally equate and demonize all opiates across the board is leaving the most vulnerable underrepresented and leading to more deaths not very far away. Then what law will be changed? None I bet. No media coverage of the unfortunates, left out and finally.....left down.

No one wants those who illegally use street drugs to die from it yet they will. It is rare that a legitimate chronic pain patient dies from prescribed medication unless it is a planned event, not a mistake. Stopping the heroin and illicit fentanyl trade onto the streets of our nation is a noble work but its a fight that prohibition failed at in the 1920's. Some people like the drugs, illegal is not a hindrance. The difference is that they do not know the strength of the product, it's not labeled and uniformly processed to a precision spec. Not trying to be silly but drug seeking behaviors are endemic to some of our population. Like alcoholics the continue back to the trough for more and more. No law will stop them, maybe make it more expensive and difficult but it won't stop it. It will save some lives until the loop holes and methods of circumvention are discovered. Then we will be back to the same point only my subset will now be marginalized as they currently happen to be in this climate of sensationalism and political pandering sound bites.

That is a tragic story. I have friends who take opiate meds every day, without which they cannot function at all. Such folks do not sell their meds; they need them to function and always will.

But prescribing a month's supply of opiate meds for someone like @Fox Chapel Lion II, whose pain was acute, leads to less honest folks selling the excess. I was once given a 30 day supply of Vicodin for tooth pain after dental surgery. One hundred pills. I took one pill.

That is the kind of script that leads the US to consume 80 % of the world's opioids, with 5 % of the population.

 

[lgpsu]

Sued by Commonwealth of Massachusetts
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...setts-opioid-lawsuit-sackler-family-oxycontin

WhooHoo! Light em up!

This is like an alcoholic suing the brewery......it isn't the producer of product, it is the individuals choice. Period

 

[demlion]

This is like an alcoholic suing the brewery......it isn't the producer of product, it is the individuals choice. Period

Because alcohol is prescribed by doctors to treat medical conditions. Got it.

 

[PSU95alum]

Because alcohol is prescribed by doctors to treat medical conditions. Got it.

The doctor's prescribe a drug to give a patient access to it IF they need it. The patient is not required to take the drug, and surely not expected to abuse it. At the end of the day, these are adult patients making their own decision on how to manage their pain. One can argue that they are ill-informed of the dangers and it is incumbent upon the MD's to educate the patients, but at the end of the day, people need to be responsible for themselves.

 

[MtNittany]

I want some of this...

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

This is like an alcoholic suing the brewery......it isn't the producer of product, it is the individuals choice. Period

And this isn’t ‘big pharma’ either - Purdue is a nothingburger on the landscape.

 

[demlion]

The doctor's prescribe a drug to give a patient access to it IF they need it. The patient is not required to take the drug, and surely not expected to abuse it. At the end of the day, these are adult patients making their own decision on how to manage their pain. One can argue that they are ill-informed of the dangers and it is incumbent upon the MD's to educate the patients, but at the end of the day, people need to be responsible for themselves.

Sure. Perfect world, it works fine. But they told doctors, and doctors told patients, that it WAS NOT ADDICTIVE EXCEPT IN ABOUT 1% OF CASES. So, you are going to lay this on the PATIENTS? Fact is, they were lied to for profit, and the Sacklers became one of the 10 wealthiest families in the US. Now, taxpayers are asked to pay the costs.

 

[BoulderFish]

Now I have to figure out how to safely dispose of the rest of them.

Ever hear of something known as the "Deep Web?"

 

[PSU95alum]

Sure. Perfect world, it works fine. But they told doctors, and doctors told patients, that it WAS NOT ADDICTIVE EXCEPT IN ABOUT 1% OF CASES. So, you are going to lay this on the PATIENTS? Fact is, they were lied to for profit, and the Sacklers became one of the 10 wealthiest families in the US. Now, taxpayers are asked to pay the costs.

I think we’ve been out of the “it’s not addictive” stage for a good period of time now, yet new patients are still taking pain meds like tic tacs.
But to your point, yes, the profits have already been reaped and the damage has already been done.

 

[psu7113]

Maybe they should also sue the doctors who give the pills out like candy and get kick backs from big pharma.

Not deep enough pockets. This is a civil matter. It is about money, not criminality.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

It's a terrible situation, but lawsuits aren't going to make any difference. I understand that the legal profession is conditioned to believe that they will, but this problem is multi-faceted and is supported by many tentacles that have been beyond the reach of law enforcement. Going after the assets of the family in question will serve to wound them financially a bit, and will make some lawyers rich in the process, and will do nothing to save lives.

 

[demlion]

It's a terrible situation, but lawsuits aren't going to make any difference. I understand that the legal profession is conditioned to believe that they will, but this problem is multi-faceted and is supported by many tentacles that have been beyond the reach of law enforcement. Going after the assets of the family in question will serve to wound them financially a bit, and will make some lawyers rich in the process, and will do nothing to save lives.

So in my town I have to pay for narcan and drug rehabs? F that. THEY need to pay for it. There needs to be a row of Sackler family rehabs from coast to coast.

 

[spoog44]

Really, You must live in Europe. No, I am wrong, they manage addiction there and not pretend that is a simple matter of will power to over come it.. let's put this in perspective. Let's build a wall around America to keep the insanity in.

View embedded media

What is stopping you from using whatever methods they use in Europe? You are free to use their methods if you think they are so successful.

 

[Carl Spackler]

That is a tragic story. I have friends who take opiate meds every day, without which they cannot function at all. Such folks do not sell their meds; they need them to function and always will.

Prescribing a month's supply of opiate meds for someone like @Fox Chapel Lion II, whose pain was acute, leads to less honest folks selling the excess. I was once given a 30 day supply of Vicodin for tooth pain after dental surgery. One hundred pills. I took one pill.

That is the kind of script that leads the US to consume 80 % of the world's opioids, with 5 % of the population.

We are in complete agreement. A month long script for localized surgery is over the top lazy. Most would never need that much. Of course most would either destroy it or keep it for another occasion when It may be necessary but that allows illicit use by other family members or friends with access to their house if not stored correctly. I don't think most in your position sell the excess, I'm sure you didn't, I never have and I don't know anyone in my position who does. I would not know who or where to market the product, I'm way out of the recreational use crowd understanding. Yet there are poeple who doctor shop and obviously sell excess for profit, criminals. Pain contracts signed at doctors offices prior to treatment forbids this activity, criminals sign and lie about it anyway. Legitimate patients sign and obey the prohibitions in the contract. Honesty is penalized due to the cuiprits who abuse the situation and now patients are suffering even more.

Whoever posted that computer programs can easily be set up to track sales by pharmacy vs local population levels, etc. is also spot on. This would track illicit scripts and use. The fly in the ointment is tracking doctors who treat long term patients who through tolerance require higher than "traditional dosing" which the DEA jumps on like bull in a china shop.

Individual dosing due to need and requirement is not factored by the DEA in raids, only minimal dosing for short term issues thus pain mgt. doctors are currently cutting patients back to miinimum levels to avoid scruitny causing a great deal of suffering or complete removal which is unrealistic and barbaric. All driven by fear of CDC's (as I remember) one size fits all reccomendations that become defacto law to DEA enforcers. Driving pain mgt. physicians out of the field, tragic.

 

[Carl Spackler]

So in my town I have to pay for narcan and drug rehabs? F that. THEY need to pay for it. There needs to be a row of Sackler family rehabs from coast to coast.

The rehab programs are ramping up to cash in on the current hysteria as to govt. will and insurance will pay for rehab. Reps. of this speciality were prominently represented on the committees who came up with these reccomendations originally, they had a motive and their over representation tilted scales in their favor. Sweet deal, the next Sackler (not Spackler) cash in group.

 

[demlion]

What is stopping you from using whatever methods they use in Europe? You are free to use their methods if you think they are so successful.

One of the methods they use in Europe is to give out free dope. I would say the law is stopping him.

 

[demlion]

The rehab programs are ramping up to cash in on the current hysteria as to govt. will and insurance will pay for rehab. Reps. of this speciality were prominently represented on the committees who came up with these reccomendations originally, they had a motive and their over representation tilted scales in their favor. Sweet deal, the next Sackler (not Spackler) cash in group.

Its pretty simple. The scum who profited from this, pay to fix the damage they caused.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

So in my town I have to pay for narcan and drug rehabs? F that. THEY need to pay for it. There needs to be a row of Sackler family rehabs from coast to coast.

If it makes you feel better, have at it. Lawsuits like this make some lawyers feel good and help others to get rich.

Let me know in a decade if it helps.

 

[demlion]

If it makes you feel better, have at it. Lawsuits like this make some lawyers feel good and help others to get rich.

Let me know in a decade if it helps.

Pretty sure that sooner than that there will finally be some effective rehabs in our state for the first time. Paid for with drug company funds, seized in lawsuits.

 

[demlion]

If it makes you feel better, have at it. Lawsuits like this make some lawyers feel good and help others to get rich.

Let me know in a decade if it helps.

Btw, got any actual documentation of the claim that the folks setting up the rehabs were the same ones who helped Purdue Pharma lie to doctors and patients? Or is this just something you know like Obliviax knows how to get evidence in in a jury trial?

 

[masterbaker65]

One greedy family is largely responsible for America’s opioid epidemic. Their sales pitch? This pill isn’t addictive. In the beginning they handed out Oxy like candy.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

Btw, got any actual documentation of the claim that the folks setting up the rehabs were the same ones who helped Purdue Pharma lie to doctors and patients? Or is this just something you know like Obliviax knows how to get evidence in in a jury trial?

Lots of blame to go around. All I'm saying is, lawsuits aren't going to do anything but make a few people rich. I couldn't care less if those people go to jail and rot. These suits are just window dressing.

 

[Delco Lion]

Two knee surgeries, 5" plate put in my ankle, prostate cancer, and double hernia surgery. Never used my percocet and oxy scripts. Ibuprofen always seemed to work. Maybe a glass of wine, beer, or shot at night.

Know too many young people that got addicted to opiates. Lost my x-wife to meds, among other things.. Passed away at 48.

 

[demlion]

Lots of blame to go around. All I'm saying is, lawsuits aren't going to do anything but make a few people rich. I couldn't care less if those people go to jail and rot. These suits are just window dressing.

So, no documentation. Got it.

 

[channing01]

One of the methods they use in Europe is to give out free dope. I would say the law is stopping him.

Is that your idea of successfully managing addiction? Give the druggies more drugs.

Doesn't that contradict this thread?

Is your solution to give out oxy?

Which countries give out heroin, oxy or meth?

 

[demlion]

Is that your idea of successfully managing addiction? Give the druggies more drugs.

Doesn't that contradict this thread?

Is your solution to give out oxy?

Which countries give out heroin, oxy or meth?

No. Read the post i replied to. Jesus.

 

[channing01]

No. Read the post i replied to. Jesus.

What I the difference between their free dope and methadone clinics?

 

[91Joe95]

If it makes you feel better, have at it. Lawsuits like this make some lawyers feel good and help others to get rich.

Let me know in a decade if it helps.

A broken regulatory system not getting any scrutiny. Beauracracies are dangerous.

 

[demlion]

A broken regulatory system not getting any scrutiny. Beauracracies are dangerous.

A CORRUPT (both parties) broken regulatory system.

 

[LemonEars]

I think we’ve been out of the “it’s not addictive” stage for a good period of time now, yet new patients are still taking pain meds like tic tacs.
But to your point, yes, the profits have already been reaped and the damage has already been done.

Sounds like you've never witnessed a friend or loved one in great pain. The only thing that stands between them and suicide are drugs like oxycontin. I don't know anyone who takes this drug for pain relief and takes it like tic tacs. That's total nonsense. There are two sides to the oxycontin story. It seems like most posters in this thread would ban their manufacture if they could. I hope they are never in a situation of great pain or have to see a loved one in great pain. If so, you might see how how beneficial drugs like this can be.

 

[Psychedelic_MackDaddy]

It's more than just pharma and doctors. It's a society that says "It's ok to be an addict, we'll just give you narcan for free" that hurts a lot, too

You have ZERO clue to what a HEROIN addiction is - ZERO!!!!!

This is NOT the same as someone who can't say no to a 2nd donut, for example.

https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/index...id/36199231/entry_id/0_cy2l8v87/embed/dynamic

 

[demlion]

You have ZERO clue to what a HEROIN addiction is - ZERO!!!!!

This is NOT the same as someone who can't say no to a 2nd donut, for example.

https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/index...id/36199231/entry_id/0_cy2l8v87/embed/dynamic

Spoke with a guy whose job requires him to administer Narcan on a regular basis. You know what the common response of a Narcan recipient is, after the first responder has administered this life saving drug which literally allows his heart and respiration to come back?

"F#ck! You wrecked my buzz!"

The power of opiate addiction is astonishing. Until you understand it, you are not qualified to make a judgment about policy in this area. You can always have an opinion, it is just a useless opinion.

 

[Psychedelic_MackDaddy]

Spoke with a guy whose job requires him to administer Narcan on a regular basis. You know what the common response of a Narcan recipient is, after the first responder has administered this life saving drug which literally allows his heart and respiration to come back?

"F#ck! You wrecked my buzz!"

The power of opiate addiction is astonishing. Until you understand it, you are not qualified to make a judgment about policy in this area. You can always have an opinion, it is just a useless opinion.

Well, IMO, it goes back to that childish philosophy that was talk for decades: "BE A MAN!"

In sports, people are hurt and others try to get him up with the "BE A MAN!" attitude. A spinal injury? Even just the possibility of a spinal injury, let him lay. A concussion? We are only NOW accepting the seriousness of a concussion.

Cigarettes???? We are only NOW understanding how addictive they are. "BE A MAN!" response to get some one to quit is just stupid.

Heroin? Heroin is a factor of 3 more powerful. Like the video said, if a nice memory gives you a release of dopamine at 100, heroin gives you a release of 1000X more. The body can't say NO to that kind of release.

The human body is not even meant to digest processed foods and sugar (processed). Now, we have an entire generation not only addicted to processed foods, we are throwing at them: Steroids, HGH, and, now HEROIN.

The average person CAN'T say NO.

And, this is WHY I am so pessimistic about the survival of the human race. We are creating things that people CAN'T say NO.

 

[LurkerLazarus]

So, no documentation. Got it.

So go ahead and sue. That's what lawyers do, I understand. Gotta put bread on the table, and clearly the redistribution of money to the lawyers always solves the problem.

Since you are asking about documentation, make sure you provide it in a decade showing that this action actually achieves anything. I hope it does, but like most suits of this nature, nothing ever changes, unless you include the fact that the offending parties just learn to cover their tracks better.

 

[demlion]

W

So go ahead and sue. That's what lawyers do, I understand. Gotta put bread on the table, and clearly the redistribution of money to the lawyers always solves the problem.

Since you are asking about documentation, make sure you provide it in a decade showing that this action actually achieves anything. I hope it does, but like most suits of this nature, nothing ever changes, unless you include the fact that the offending parties just learn to cover their tracks better.

When an AG files suit, he does not charge a fee.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

W

When an AG files suit, he does not charge a fee.

In this particular case, it's a "she" with a really poor haircut. I wonder if she also has some future "political aspirations"

 

[PSU95alum]

Sounds like you've never witnessed a friend or loved one in great pain. The only thing that stands between them and suicide are drugs like oxycontin. I don't know anyone who takes this drug for pain relief and takes it like tic tacs. That's total nonsense. There are two sides to the oxycontin story. It seems like most posters in this thread would ban their manufacture if they could. I hope they are never in a situation of great pain or have to see a loved one in great pain. If so, you might see how how beneficial drugs like this can be.

I work in healthcare, I see it first hand. Like in all aspects of life, some people use it for its intending purpose, while others abuse it.

 

[Aardvark86]

In this particular case, it's a "she" with a really poor haircut. I wonder if she also has some future "political aspirations"

Every ag is an aspiring governor. And usually they just hire players tiffs lawyers for cases like this so they can get kickbacks...er, campaign contributions.

 

[christoph]

They did not need to make the sustained release vehicle for OxyContin turn to liquid when heated. The ability to do that and inject it was the start of the epidemic. As I recall they refused to change the formula to make it NOT turn to liquid when heated at some point. This is on their shoulders.