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Family that owns Purdue Pharma, maker of Oxycontin,

This just can’t be true. I heard it right here on this very board that the pharma companies are not the problem. And that I was an idiot for thinking they were.
 
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Maybe they should also sue the doctors who give the pills out like candy and get kick backs from big pharma.

Any alleged doc that would prescribe strong pain meds. indiscriminately, without good reason should be seriously inspected. Some docs do prescribe higher than usual doses (compared to minimums) to patients who require stronger meds. but that is a totally different subject. AND, this will have little to no impact on the street drug trade. Ohio made a big deal about closing down "pill mills" and patted themselves on the back for it so why is there a problem now? Because the street trade is dealing out death through heroin (no one can write a prescription for it) and fentanyl which is generally prescribed as a patch, harder to abuse but there are formulations that can be abused or illegal stuff from China coming in through internet sales. None of the anti-opiate positioning is going to do a thing to stop this yet technically they are opiates, in a class like morphine and its derivatives. Legal products vs illegal products or illegal sale and use.

The end game is that multiple thousands of legitimate chronic pain patient are being removed from meds they have used legally and appropriately for decades, what about that MR. msm and politician? The suicides are coming as I read reports from patients every day being removed from legitimate pain meds. due to govt. regulation intervention and scared doctors protecting their livelihood. Now the govt. regulator is my doctor, great.
 
Any alleged doc that would prescribe strong pain meds. indiscriminately, without good reason should be seriously inspected. Some docs do prescribe higher than usual doses (compared to minimums) to patients who require stronger meds. but that is a totally different subject. AND, this will have little to no impact on the street drug trade. Ohio made a big deal about closing down "pill mills" and patted themselves on the back for it so why is there a problem now? Because the street trade is dealing out death through heroin (no one can write a prescription for it) and fentanyl which is generally prescribed as a patch, harder to abuse but there are formulations that can be abused or illegal stuff from China coming in through internet sales. None of the anti-opiate positioning is going to do a thing to stop this yet technically they are opiates, in a class like morphine and its derivatives. Legal products vs illegal products or illegal sale and use.

The end game is that multiple thousands of legitimate chronic pain patient are being removed from meds they have used legally and appropriately for decades, what about that MR. msm and politician? The suicides are coming as I read reports from patients every day being removed from legitimate pain meds. due to govt. regulation intervention and scared doctors protecting their livelihood. Now the govt. regulator is my doctor, great.
There were THOUSANDS of such doctors prescribing Oxy. When they stopped, you had a nation of addicts. Many switched to heroin. They are dying every day.

Purdue pushed, and doctors accepted, that pain was the 5th vital sign, and that Oxy was non-addictive.

The Sacklers went from small timers to one of the 10 wealthiest families in America.
 
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Massachusetts can get in line. There are already dozens of other states and municipalities suing Purdue.
 
I was not up on all the info you mention. Doctors KNOW better and anyone I know, legitimate patients know any opiate will cause dependence in legitimate patients. Drug seeking behaviors differentiate from actual patients with pain requiring appropriate dosing, no matter the product. Drug seekers will doctor shop, buy street drugs, etc. for the high where legitimate pain patients generally experience no high and don't acquire the desire for one. Now legit. patients are being forced to try to find another source of pain mitigating drug to assist in their govt. forced dilemma and it happening nation wide. Driving people to street drugs is not an acceptable solution to reducing criminal behaviors among recreational drug users and the heroin trade.

As noted in my earlier post, Ohio shut down Pill MIlls allegedly, several years ago and the street drug trade allegedly soared, the reverse of the intended consequence, any wonder why/ A use and a source will find each other. The problem is with making regulations with unintended consequences or maybe better stated, intended consequences in some cases. The drug rehab trade is wringing is hands in glee with this news, lining their pockets as they go. Look behind the curtain and see who is pushing buttons and sitting on committees making policy.......
 
It's more than just pharma and doctors. It's a society that says "It's ok to be an addict, we'll just give you narcan for free" that hurts a lot, too

Take the profit out of it for docs and people like the Sacklers, and "society" will not be a factor at all.

These lawsuits, i hope, will literally take the Sacklers' ill-gotten money and save some of their victims' lives with it.
 
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Massachusetts can get in line. There are already dozens of other states and municipalities suing Purdue.
I think the difference in this case is the naming of people named Sackler in the complaint. I could be wrong.
 
yeah...hate these people that are unscrupulous and will do anything to win.
 
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The problem is that big pharma advertised the opiates to doctors as being non-addictive. Big pharma knew better, but profit was the motive. Doctors actually believed the big pharma research and pushed the pills onto their chronic pain clients.
@demlion has mentioned the book, "Dreamland" countless times before. This book illustrates where this bogus 'study' came from. It really wasn't a study at all.

There was a doctor (forget his name) in Boston I believe. He sent a very brief note to the New England Journal of Medicine. His note (paraphrased) said to the effect that in his experience with a very small number of patients in a hospital setting, he did not observe addiction in patients being administered opiates. End of note.

The NEJOM ran this note in a column where they have all kinds of miscellaneous observations by doctors on all kinds of topics. These are not studies at all - it's like water cooler conversation where a doctor will say to the effect of 'I did X with Patient Y and I had Z result'.

Purdue Pharma and others glommed onto this and built their entire marketing effort around it. Hey - The NEJOM says our meds aren't addictive!

That is obviously deceptive sales practices, and it is certainly actionable. Purdue is going to have a lot of 'splainin' to do.
 
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It's more than just pharma and doctors. It's a society that says "It's ok to be an addict, we'll just give you narcan for free" that hurts a lot, too

Really, You must live in Europe. No, I am wrong, they manage addiction there and not pretend that is a simple matter of will power to over come it.. let's put this in perspective. Let's build a wall around America to keep the insanity in.

 
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Really, You must live in Europe. No, I am wrong, they manage addiction there and not pretend that is a simple matter of will power to over come it.. let's put this in perspective. Let's build a wall around America to keep the insanity in.

Agree...but at the same time, there are some simple controls that can be put into place. Computer analytics is so easy today. They can easily track outlets and see where there is an anomaly in prescriptions, prescriptions filled and consumption. Once an abuser is IDed, corrective action can be taken. We need to separate the enablers from the victims. Sadly, prosecutors still love racking up drug convictions on helpless and pitiful addicts.

  1. put in analytics and monitor it
  2. decriminalize small amounts of possession
  3. Go hard after the enablers
  4. provide programs for those addicted

It won't solve the problem but it will be a big step
 
Purdue pushed, and doctors accepted, that pain was the 5th vital sign, and that Oxy was non-addictive.
Not for nothing, but pain was pushed as the 6th vital sign. There were already 5 prior to pain:
BP-HR-Temp-RR-SpO2. However, many outlets do call it the 5th vital sign for some reason.

But to your point, yes, pain was pushed as a vital sign.... that the patient defined.
It’s truly a catch 22. Do you give the addictive meds which allows the patient to mobilize better and be more productive for rehab and therapy, or do you let them have the pain and potentially lay in bed all day not wanting to ambulate their body?

Not sure one is better than the other.
 
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@demlion has mentioned the book, "Dreamland" countless times before. This book illustrates where this bogus 'study' came from. It really wasn't a study at all.

There was a doctor (forget his name) in Boston I believe. He sent a very brief note to the New England Journal of Medicine. His note (paraphrased) said to the effect that in his experience with a very small number of patients in a hospital setting, he did not observe addiction in patients being administered opiates. End of note.

The NEJOM ran this note in a column where they have all kinds of miscellaneous observations by doctors on all kinds of topics. These are not studies at all - it's like water cooler conversation where a doctor will say to the effect of 'I did X with Patient Y and I had Z result'.

Purdue Pharma and others glommed onto this and built their entire marketing effort around it. Hey - The NEJOM says our meds aren't addictive!

That is obviously deceptive sales practices, and it is certainly actionable. Purdue is going to have a lot of 'splainin' to do.
The doctor was named Porter. His assistant was a woman (?) named Jick. It was a letter to the editor of the NEJOM from Porter and Jick.
A. Letter. To. The. Editor.

 
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Agree...but at the same time, there are some simple controls that can be put into place. Computer analytics is so easy today. They can easily track outlets and see where there is an anomaly in prescriptions, prescriptions filled and consumption. Once an abuser is IDed, corrective action can be taken. We need to separate the enablers from the victims. Sadly, prosecutors still love racking up drug convictions on helpless and pitiful addicts.

  1. put in analytics and monitor it
  2. decriminalize small amounts of possession
  3. Go hard after the enablers
  4. provide programs for those addicted

It won't solve the problem but it will be a big step


THIS.
 
Sorry, no time to listen, but d’ya suppose this person got a nice dinner out of writing such a note?
The book quotes him as being shocked that his minor research note got used that way.

The npr piece is about Dreamland in general. But the Porter/Jick thing is laid out in the book.
 
hughes1.jpg
What does this thread have to do with FOOTBALL. :eek: ?
Many football players play with pain--real, physical pain. Not the kind of Howard Hughes like psychological pain that comes from insufficient tong usage.

Bob, i hear that wearing kleenex boxes on your feet can protect you from serious deadly germs like foot and mouth disease.
 
Any alleged doc that would prescribe strong pain meds. indiscriminately, without good reason should be seriously inspected. Some docs do prescribe higher than usual doses (compared to minimums) to patients who require stronger meds. but that is a totally different subject. AND, this will have little to no impact on the street drug trade. Ohio made a big deal about closing down "pill mills" and patted themselves on the back for it so why is there a problem now? Because the street trade is dealing out death through heroin (no one can write a prescription for it) and fentanyl which is generally prescribed as a patch, harder to abuse but there are formulations that can be abused or illegal stuff from China coming in through internet sales. None of the anti-opiate positioning is going to do a thing to stop this yet technically they are opiates, in a class like morphine and its derivatives. Legal products vs illegal products or illegal sale and use.

The end game is that multiple thousands of legitimate chronic pain patient are being removed from meds they have used legally and appropriately for decades, what about that MR. msm and politician? The suicides are coming as I read reports from patients every day being removed from legitimate pain meds. due to govt. regulation intervention and scared doctors protecting their livelihood. Now the govt. regulator is my doctor, great.
Agree with this. The conception that the current opioid crisis is all the result of greedy corporations and doctors might give some people some warm, fuzzy feelings of self affirmation, but it’s a lot more complicated than that. Oxycontin and MS Contin certainly have abuse potential and have been recklessly prescribed by some practitioners, but if you have ever seen a loved one dying with unrelenting pain from metastatic cancer, you would realize they have some application.
We live in a society that increasingly tolerates, even glamorizes, drug abuse. Criminal enterprises can create synthetic opioids thousands of times stronger than traditional versions of these drugs. A certain percentage of people who experiment with drugs recreationally are going to work their way downslope to opioid addiction.
 
Agree with this. The conception that the current opioid crisis is all the result of greedy corporations and doctors might give some people some warm, fuzzy feelings of self affirmation, but it’s a lot more complicated than that. Oxycontin and MS Contin certainly have abuse potential and have been recklessly prescribed by some practitioners, but if you have ever seen a loved one dying with unrelenting pain from metastatic cancer, you would realize they have some application.
We live in a society that increasingly tolerates, even glamorizes, drug abuse. Criminal enterprises can create synthetic opioids thousands of times stronger than traditional versions of these drugs. A certain percentage of people who experiment with drugs recreationally are going to work their way downslope to opioid addiction.
Some great points....I had a neighbor who was in a major car accident and over the last ten years has had, it seems, like a dozen or so surgeries. He is in constant pain and can't function without a daily drug cocktail. His wife died in the accident and he is a single father. I give him a ton of credit. He told me that he won't be functional passed the age of 50 no matter what (barring a miracle) so he is living life to get his daughter into college.

the problem with all of these situations is that we think of them as one size fits all. Everyone has a story. Having said that, it is clear that these drugs are way over prescribed and way abused on many instances that would be easily tracked by doing some analytics with anomaly reporting.
 
hughes1.jpg

Many football players play with pain--real, physical pain. Not the kind of Howard Hughes like psychological pain that comes from insufficient tong usage.

Bob, i hear that wearing kleenex boxes on your feet can protect you from serious deadly germs like foot and mouth disease.

Can they protect from foot-in-mouth disease?
 
The doctor was named Porter. His assistant was a woman (?) named Jick. It was a letter to the editor of the NEJOM from Porter and Jick.
A. Letter. To. The. Editor.

Exactly right - thanks for correcting my errors. It was indeed a Letter to the Editor, not a column item.

Dr. Hershel Jick was the author and Jane Porter was the assistant.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...nkillers-regrets-that-it-fed-the-opioid-crisi

I'll just add as an anecdote - after my Achilles surgery, I took pain meds for two days. I believe I took 7 pills of 5 mg Oxycontin out of a Rx of 50 pills. They worked like a charm and let me tell you - I really needed them.

50 pills in the Rx was max dose for four days, which is 2 pills every four hours. Seems like a reasonable number but with N=1 sample size, maybe 25 pills would have been enough. Now I have to figure out how to safely dispose of the rest of them.
 
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Agree with this. The conception that the current opioid crisis is all the result of greedy corporations and doctors might give some people some warm, fuzzy feelings of self affirmation, but it’s a lot more complicated than that. Oxycontin and MS Contin certainly have abuse potential and have been recklessly prescribed by some practitioners, but if you have ever seen a loved one dying with unrelenting pain from metastatic cancer, you would realize they have some application.
We live in a society that increasingly tolerates, even glamorizes, drug abuse. Criminal enterprises can create synthetic opioids thousands of times stronger than traditional versions of these drugs. A certain percentage of people who experiment with drugs recreationally are going to work their way downslope to opioid addiction.
Nobody is saying that the opioid epidemic is "all" the result of anything. There are myriad reasons why poor and middle class Americans have not kept up economically with wealthier people. The gap between rich and middle class is growing. When a person whose economic future is bleak to nonexistent gets addicted, rehab is made nearly impossible because the fabulous life you want to send them back to, does not exist and they know it.

Nobody is saying that the morphine molecule and its cousins have no application in the practice of medicine. My own mother was given morphine for the brain cancer which killed her, after it metastasized from her lung, with my wholehearted approval.

That 57 yo old woman was not going to live. The only question was how much suffering should she endure. Given my druthers, and I suspect hers, she would have died much sooner. None of that has anything to do with the opioid epidemic which is wrecking a generation or two of Americans.

But it was not just "some" practitioners, either. More like thousands of practitioners. There were bunches of HS and college ATHLETES who got addicted by being prescribed Oxy for football injury pain. Those are people with an awful lot to live for.
 
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Exactly right - thanks for correcting my errors. It was indeed a Letter to the Editor, not a column item.

Dr. Hershel Jick was the author and Jane Porter was the assistant.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...nkillers-regrets-that-it-fed-the-opioid-crisi

I'll just add as an anecdote - after my Achilles surgery, I took pain meds for two days. I believe I took 7 pills of 5 mg Oxycontin out of a Rx of 50 pills. They worked like a charm and let me tell you - I really needed them.

50 pills in the Rx was max dose for four days, which is 2 pills every four hours. Seems like a reasonable number but with N=1 sample size, maybe 25 pills would have been enough. Now I have to figure out how to safely dispose of the rest of them.
Thanks for correcting mine.:D
 
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Exactly right - thanks for correcting my errors. It was indeed a Letter to the Editor, not a column item.

Dr. Hershel Jick was the author and Jane Porter was the assistant.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...nkillers-regrets-that-it-fed-the-opioid-crisi

I'll just add as an anecdote - after my Achilles surgery, I took pain meds for two days. I believe I took 7 pills of 5 mg Oxycontin out of a Rx of 50 pills. They worked like a charm and let me tell you - I really needed them.

50 pills in the Rx was max dose for four days, which is 2 pills every four hours. Seems like a reasonable number but with N=1 sample size, maybe 25 pills would have been enough. Now I have to figure out how to safely dispose of the rest of them.
Hospice nurses had us crushing up the tablets and putting them in a plastic sandwich bag with a broken egg. Don’t flush them.
 
Hospice nurses had us crushing up the tablets and putting them in a plastic sandwich bag with a broken egg. Don’t flush them.
That is interesting. What do you do with the sandwich bag full of opiate egg goo?
 
Take the profit out of it for docs and people like the Sacklers, and "society" will not be a factor at all.

These lawsuits, i hope, will literally take the Sacklers' ill-gotten money and save some of their victims' lives with it.

More accurately wealth transfer to the lawyers.
 
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That is interesting. What do you do with the sandwich bag full of opiate egg goo?
Throw it out with the regular trash.
I asked about just taking it back to the pharmacy and hospice advised against. I have no idea why. I suppose if you really wanted to dispose of this materal in a foolproof way it would require high temperature incineration.
 
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