DT recruiting

[blion72]

for the recruiting experts here, what do you think about our DT recruiting for 2022 class. looking particularly for the 1-tech run stuffers. many refer to playing the power run games of the BIG (Iowa, Wisky, Minny, MSU, UMich, etc) and having the matchups at DT. we seem to do great at DE, particularly as it relates to rushers. we have had many quick DTs, who can get to the QB.

two questions = 1) do you think we need the run plugging DTs, or is that a myth? 2) if we do, do you think we are recruiting them for this class and beyond?

 

[Wallace Breen]

1) do you think we need the run plugging DTs, or is that a myth? 2) if we do, do you think we are recruiting them for this class and beyond?

To really understand what we need, you have to look at the defensive scheme. Brent Pry runs exactly the same 4-3 defense his processor Bob Shoop ran which was almost identical to the defense installed by Ted Roof in 2012. Up front, the scheme is similar to what Scrap ran for years but differs behind them. Bottom line, we need to continue to recruit 1 technique players.

The scheme requires the following players up front and with the sole exception of the 2006 season, relied on this alignment for most (not all) downs.

Defensive End - 5 Tech - Two way defensive end (AKA Base End)
Defensive Tackle - 3 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher
Defensive Tackle - 1 Tech - Primarily a run stuffer (AKA Nose Tackle)
Defensive End - 7 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher, sometimes referred to as "wide 9"

Recruiting at tackle has been a problem since Franklin arrived. Defensive end has been better but there have been problems. The misses have been well documented. The results have been gaping holes in the roster. We have had a ton of solid to good 1 technique run stuffers and other than Kevin Givens who started as an O'Brien target, no impact 3 techniques. Right now, we have two players that project to the 3 on the roster. Every other player is a 1.

This situation mirrors what we see at end where we have a boat load of 7/9 technique players and essentially no 5 technique base ends. There is not one on the roster right now and there hasn't been since Gross-Matos left. Much like the lack of quality 3 techniques, the lack of 5s is a major problem and gets to the heart of many of our defensive issues.

 

[OhHello]

To really understand what we need, you have to look at the defensive scheme. Brent Pry runs exactly the same 4-3 defense his processor Bob Shoop ran which was almost identical to the defense installed by Ted Roof in 2012. Up front, the scheme is similar to what Scrap ran for years but differs behind them. Bottom line, we need to continue to recruit 1 technique players.

The scheme requires the following players up front and with the sole exception of the 2006 season, relied on this alignment for most (not all) downs.

Defensive End - 5 Tech - Two way defensive end (AKA Base End)
Defensive Tackle - 3 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher
Defensive Tackle - 1 Tech - Primarily a run stuffer (AKA Nose Tackle)
Defensive End - 7 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher, sometimes referred to as "wide 9"

Recruiting at tackle has been a problem since Franklin arrived. Defensive end has been better but there have been problems. The misses have been well documented. The results have been gaping holes in the roster. We have had a ton of solid to good 1 technique run stuffers and other than Kevin Givens who started as an O'Brien target, no impact 3 techniques. Right now, we have two players that project to the 3 on the roster. Every other player is a 1.

This situation mirrors what we see at end where we have a boat load of 7/9 technique players and essentially no 5 technique base ends. There is not one on the roster right now and there hasn't been since Gross-Matos left. Much like the lack of quality 3 techniques, the lack of 5s is a major problem and gets to the heart of many of our defensive issues.

Good analysis but I think the DT recruiting isn't bad at all. Some have not panned out yet.

2021 grad transfer Derrick Tangelo (one of Duke's best players)
2021 unrated and maybe under-rated Jordan van den Berg
2020 4 star Cole Brevard
2020 4 star Coziah Izzard
2019 4 star Devon Ellies
2019 3 star Joseph Darkwa
2018 4 star #78 overall PJ Mustipher
2018 3 star Aeneas Hawkins
2017 4 star Fred Hansard
2017 4 star Damion Barber (originally SDE)
2016 4 star Ellison Jordan
2016 3 star Tyrell Chavis
2016 3 star Antonio Shelton
2016 2 star Brenon Thrift
2017 3 star Corey Bolds

I don't know how 2022 and beyond shake out at the position but there are quite a few 4 star guys that we've recruited. Some like Mustipher have been solid but need to take the next step to great. Some have disappointed or battled injuries. Some have shown some glimpses but are not yet proven. But Franklin has brought in probably 2nd or 3rd best talent at this position in the Big 10.

 

[PSU210]

To really understand what we need, you have to look at the defensive scheme. Brent Pry runs exactly the same 4-3 defense his processor Bob Shoop ran which was almost identical to the defense installed by Ted Roof in 2012. Up front, the scheme is similar to what Scrap ran for years but differs behind them. Bottom line, we need to continue to recruit 1 technique players.

The scheme requires the following players up front and with the sole exception of the 2006 season, relied on this alignment for most (not all) downs.

Defensive End - 5 Tech - Two way defensive end (AKA Base End)
Defensive Tackle - 3 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher
Defensive Tackle - 1 Tech - Primarily a run stuffer (AKA Nose Tackle)
Defensive End - 7 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher, sometimes referred to as "wide 9"

Recruiting at tackle has been a problem since Franklin arrived. Defensive end has been better but there have been problems. The misses have been well documented. The results have been gaping holes in the roster. We have had a ton of solid to good 1 technique run stuffers and other than Kevin Givens who started as an O'Brien target, no impact 3 techniques. Right now, we have two players that project to the 3 on the roster. Every other player is a 1.

This situation mirrors what we see at end where we have a boat load of 7/9 technique players and essentially no 5 technique base ends. There is not one on the roster right now and there hasn't been since Gross-Matos left. Much like the lack of quality 3 techniques, the lack of 5s is a major problem and gets to the heart of many of our defensive issues.

The biggest issue is very limited, inconsistent pressure/sacks from the DE position in games that count. Ohio State, Michigan, etc. Our ends have inflated stats vs the non conference for the most part. I firmly believe that is what separates us defensively from OSU. They have such a major advantage year after year at the DE position and it in turns really allows their DB's to play much more man because of the pressure they consistently create.

 

[blion72]

To really understand what we need, you have to look at the defensive scheme. Brent Pry runs exactly the same 4-3 defense his processor Bob Shoop ran which was almost identical to the defense installed by Ted Roof in 2012. Up front, the scheme is similar to what Scrap ran for years but differs behind them. Bottom line, we need to continue to recruit 1 technique players.

The scheme requires the following players up front and with the sole exception of the 2006 season, relied on this alignment for most (not all) downs.

Defensive End - 5 Tech - Two way defensive end (AKA Base End)
Defensive Tackle - 3 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher
Defensive Tackle - 1 Tech - Primarily a run stuffer (AKA Nose Tackle)
Defensive End - 7 Tech - Primarily a pass rusher, sometimes referred to as "wide 9"

Recruiting at tackle has been a problem since Franklin arrived. Defensive end has been better but there have been problems. The misses have been well documented. The results have been gaping holes in the roster. We have had a ton of solid to good 1 technique run stuffers and other than Kevin Givens who started as an O'Brien target, no impact 3 techniques. Right now, we have two players that project to the 3 on the roster. Every other player is a 1.

This situation mirrors what we see at end where we have a boat load of 7/9 technique players and essentially no 5 technique base ends. There is not one on the roster right now and there hasn't been since Gross-Matos left. Much like the lack of quality 3 techniques, the lack of 5s is a major problem and gets to the heart of many of our defensive issues.

what is your opinion of the depth at the 1-technique DT? Mustipher looks ready but if he were to be lost for any period of time, it looks thin in depth. agree the 5 DE is another issue which may add to the DT issue. When they said Tarburton had grown too big for LB thought that move to DE would work, but so far has not. the new JUCO recruit looked like he might be 5 DE but they seem to see him as DT.

 

[NittanyIllinois]

The biggest issue is very limited, inconsistent pressure/sacks from the DE position in games that count. Ohio State, Michigan, etc. Our ends have inflated stats vs the non conference for the most part. I firmly believe that is what separates us defensively from OSU. They have such a major advantage year after year at the DE position and it in turns really allows their DB's to play much more man because of the pressure they consistently create.

There’s a lot of truth there. Rarely have our DEs taken over big games. Granted, not many schools have the talent at DE to do that — nor a guy like Larry Johnson to coach them — but we haven’t gotten consistent pressure from our rush ends to take the pressure off other positions.

Seems like the past 3-4 years, failure to get pressure up front has put our secondary in tough spots late. Hopefully that changes.

 

[Petch]

for the recruiting experts here, what do you think about our DT recruiting for 2022 class. looking particularly for the 1-tech run stuffers. many refer to playing the power run games of the BIG (Iowa, Wisky, Minny, MSU, UMich, etc) and having the matchups at DT. we seem to do great at DE, particularly as it relates to rushers. we have had many quick DTs, who can get to the QB.

two questions = 1) do you think we need the run plugging DTs, or is that a myth? 2) if we do, do you think we are recruiting them for this class and beyond?

When I read the title, I thought you were posting on the wrong board.

I thought...hmmm...with his new training center, I'm sure David Taylor is recruiting hard for his alma mater. Yikes....I guess wrestling is on my brain these days. 😂

 

[MacNit07]

for the recruiting experts here, what do you think about our DT recruiting for 2022 class. looking particularly for the 1-tech run stuffers. many refer to playing the power run games of the BIG (Iowa, Wisky, Minny, MSU, UMich, etc) and having the matchups at DT. we seem to do great at DE, particularly as it relates to rushers. we have had many quick DTs, who can get to the QB.

two questions = 1) do you think we need the run plugging DTs, or is that a myth? 2) if we do, do you think we are recruiting them for this class and beyond?

Need the War Daddy!

 

[danvillenit]

Good analysis but I think the DT recruiting isn't bad at all. Some have not panned out yet.

2021 grad transfer Derrick Tangelo (one of Duke's best players)
2021 unrated and maybe under-rated Jordan van den Berg
2020 4 star Cole Brevard
2020 4 star Coziah Izzard
2019 4 star Devon Ellies
2019 3 star Joseph Darkwa
2018 4 star #78 overall PJ Mustipher
2018 3 star Aeneas Hawkins
2017 4 star Fred Hansard
2017 4 star Damion Barber (originally SDE)
2016 4 star Ellison Jordan
2016 3 star Tyrell Chavis
2016 3 star Antonio Shelton
2016 2 star Brenon Thrift
2017 3 star Corey Bolds

I don't know how 2022 and beyond shake out at the position but there are quite a few 4 star guys that we've recruited. Some like Mustipher have been solid but need to take the next step to great. Some have disappointed or battled injuries. Some have shown some glimpses but are not yet proven. But Franklin has brought in probably 2nd or 3rd best talent at this position in the Big 10.

One top 100 DT in seven years isn’t going to get us where Franklin wants to be.

 

[Wallace Breen]

Good analysis but I think the DT recruiting isn't bad at all. Some have not panned out yet.

2021 grad transfer Derrick Tangelo (one of Duke's best players)
2021 unrated and maybe under-rated Jordan van den Berg
2020 4 star Cole Brevard
2020 4 star Coziah Izzard
2019 4 star Devon Ellies
2019 3 star Joseph Darkwa
2018 4 star #78 overall PJ Mustipher
2018 3 star Aeneas Hawkins
2017 4 star Fred Hansard
2017 4 star Damion Barber (originally SDE)
2016 4 star Ellison Jordan
2016 3 star Tyrell Chavis
2016 3 star Antonio Shelton
2016 2 star Brenon Thrift
2017 3 star Corey Bolds

I don't know how 2022 and beyond shake out at the position but there are quite a few 4 star guys that we've recruited. Some like Mustipher have been solid but need to take the next step to great. Some have disappointed or battled injuries. Some have shown some glimpses but are not yet proven. But Franklin has brought in probably 2nd or 3rd best talent at this position in the Big 10.

The stars look good but the results say something else entirely. They say player identification and/or development are an issue. Right now, we are looking at Beamon and Hawkins as the two 3 techniques on the roster. Neither have shown much if anything. Shelton is the best 1 on that list and he was average at best. He did flip back and forth from 1 to 3 however which almost certainly limited his growth. With that said, his ceiling was low by default.

 

[Wallace Breen]

what is your opinion of the depth at the 1-technique DT? Mustipher looks ready but if he were to be lost for any period of time, it looks thin in depth. agree the 5 DE is another issue which may add to the DT issue. When they said Tarburton had grown too big for LB thought that move to DE would work, but so far has not. the new JUCO recruit looked like he might be 5 DE but they seem to see him as DT.

I think we are in great shape at the 1 because that is what we are recruiting because we keep missing on the 3s. Mustipher will likely be our best 1 since Austin Johnson. I don't think he'll be as good as Johnson but far from a problem. Truth be told, if he was a real DC that could adjust the scheme to the players on hand, we could make it work. Plenty of teams have won championships with two run stuffers and two pure pass rushers outside. Pry has not shown the ability to evolve what had been previously installed to suite the talent on hand.

 

[GregInPitt]

The biggest issue is very limited, inconsistent pressure/sacks from the DE position in games that count. Ohio State, Michigan, etc. Our ends have inflated stats vs the non conference for the most part. I firmly believe that is what separates us defensively from OSU. They have such a major advantage year after year at the DE position and it in turns really allows their DB's to play much more man because of the pressure they consistently create.

Yep, the DE's in recent years have gotten their sack and pressure against teams like IU and the non conf creampuffs. The last DE to come up big was Sickels against oh-high-ya in the second half when PSU took that game.

We haven't had DE's up to the tradition of Courtney Brown, YGM, Tamba Hali, .... in recent years. And I believe out recent DE's are just too small to stop the power running teams as well. A bad combination....

 

[SYRCHAZ]

There’s a lot of truth there. Rarely have our DEs taken over big games. Granted, not many schools have the talent at DE to do that — nor a guy like Larry Johnson to coach them — but we haven’t gotten consistent pressure from our rush ends to take the pressure off other positions.

Seems like the past 3-4 years, failure to get pressure up front has put our secondary in tough spots late. Hopefully that changes.

The last time a remember having an effective pass rush was in 2016 against OSU. It won the game for us (outside of Haley's blocked field goal return, of course).

 

[Ward Hog]

The last time we had a end dominate was OSU when Sickles sat out the first half and dominated the second half. Tackle was probably Zettle, who was an end playing 3.

 

[Chris92]

what is your opinion of the depth at the 1-technique DT? Mustipher looks ready but if he were to be lost for any period of time, it looks thin in depth.

Tangelo without a doubt is the 2nd best 1-tech if not the best 1-tech on the team. PFF had him as one of the best DTs against the run last season. He'll start at the 3-tech but will back up Mustipher IMO. Hansard is a 5th year senior that's played a bunch there and Brevard is the young one to keep an eye on there.