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Do you think a position change to TE for Justin Shorter might make sense?

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19333lion

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Jan 30, 2016
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He is already at the upper limits of size for a WR and seems to have difficulty getting open against CBs. He has the speed to make a change from 235 lbs to 250 or so without being seriously slowed down. He is a willing blocker too.

Guys go from TE to OT, S to LBer, so why not WR to TE?

It seems to me that he could use a change before entering the portal.
 
I think it is a great thought. Something just isn't clicking for the young man and sometimes a change is what is needed.
 
Shorter doesn't seem to be catching the balls even when he is open...at this point it might not hurt to try something, I am just not sure it is the answer.
 
I think the worry is going to be how big he gets. He is 235 now.....and for those of you that say he is just a redshirt freshman....well, where do we expect the weight to go with more years in the program?
 
Way too early to give up on the kid. JMO, but moving him to a new position would set him back further.
 
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I know he’s dropped some passes but his biggest problem is they aren’t even looking his way. Give him some targets and then see how he does.
 
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19333lion said:
He is already at the upper limits of size for a WR and seems to have difficulty getting open against CBs. He has the speed to make a change from 235 lbs to 250 or so without being seriously slowed down. He is a willing blocker too.

Guys go from TE to OT, S to LBer, so why not WR to TE?

It seems to me that he could use a change before entering the portal.
Click to expand...

Will that improve his hands?
 
psualt said:
I know he’s dropped some passes but his biggest problem is they aren’t even looking his way. Give him some targets and then see how he does.
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Yup. Has he even dropped any outside of the Minnesota game? It was obviously a bad day for him, but I think the concerns about his hands are overblown at this point. The much bigger concern to me is that he hasn’t gotten the ball thrown his way, which may be a reflection of his ability to get open, but may also have to do with scheme and/or Clifford. Sure would have been nice to draw up a few plays to him in the blowouts early in the season rather than waiting until the Minnesota game.
 
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One thing I look at with a player who is struggling is "body language confidence". Now, I 100% admit, this is an observation from row 60 of section EDU, but from what I can see from row 60 is a player with some confidence. It does NOT appear that he lacks "swag" and IMO actually looks a little "cocky" .... What my point is that IMO, as long as the play still has confidence, then he's OK from a mental perspective, and that means just working on him from a physical perspective.
 
Texas Lion said:
I think the worry is going to be how big he gets. He is 235 now.....and for those of you that say he is just a redshirt freshman....well, where do we expect the weight to go with more years in the program?
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Realistically, anywhere the strength and nutrition staff wants it to go.
 
Drops aren’t an issue, it seems like it because of 1 bad game at Minnesota when they tried to make him a focus of the offense and take some pressure off Hamler and Pat. Hopefully they aren’t an issue is what I should say, hopefully that game doesn’t lead into issues he doesn’t have. I think targets are his big problem, he doesn’t feel like he is in the flow and pressed a little bit when he had a chance. He was open when they tried to go to him vs Minny.

The drops suck for sure but I had a much bigger problem with the interception. He had inside position, he is 6’4” and 235 with a small defensive back on him. I know the kid from Minny is a stud but with his size and positioning to start that play, there is zero reason for that to have a chance to be intercepted. He needs to learn to be aggressive, shield the defender and high point that ball. He faded and shrunk himself allowing the ball to come down to him. Not only should there be no chance of that being picked, but with his athletic ability and size that should be caught by him well over 50% of the time.
 
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psu2016 said:
Yup. Has he even dropped any outside of the Minnesota game? It was obviously a bad day for him, but I think the concerns about his hands are overblown at this point. The much bigger concern to me is that he hasn’t gotten the ball thrown his way, which may be a reflection of his ability to get open, but may also have to do with scheme and/or Clifford. Sure would have been nice to draw up a few plays to him in the blowouts early in the season rather than waiting until the Minnesota game.
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Thank you for bringing some common sense to this discussion. Yes, he dropped 2 passes in the MN game. He has caught a total of 9 all year. So that is a total of 11 passes thrown to him (confirmed). Have there been a few other drops - probably, but I can't specifically remember many - unlike Johnson and Polk who seemingly dropped 3 out of every 4 balls thrown their way last year.

If someone wants to take the time to review the play by play of each game (available at the PSU sports site), they can provide a definitive answer to how many times Shorter has been targeted. My general recollection is that he doesn't get more than 1 or 2 balls thrown to him each game. For comparison here are the receptions of - Hamler (46 receptions), Freiermuth (34), Dotson (22), Slade (12), Brown (11). Bowers (9).

So, the real issue is why is he only getting 1 or 2 targets a game? Somebody on the staff knows the answer. We don't.
 
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the concerns for me arent the drops. the concerns for me see to be that he has a hard time getting open when he is lined up against a CB. Maybe he will have a better chance of getting open with a S or LB covering him.
 
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Last game, Chisena had been moved from backing up Dotson to starting at the WR “ X “ position. Shorter still got a number of reps, but I did not see any passes thrown his way. I expect the WR corps is going to look a lot different next season when moves like this are being made this deep into the schedule.
At 235 lb, there probably aren’t any NFL WR’s who are bigger than him. Whether somebody can be that size and still maintain the quickness needed to play the position is an open question.
 
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19333lion said:
He is already at the upper limits of size for a WR and seems to have difficulty getting open against CBs. He has the speed to make a change from 235 lbs to 250 or so without being seriously slowed down. He is a willing blocker too.

Guys go from TE to OT, S to LBer, so why not WR to TE?

It seems to me that he could use a change before entering the portal.
Click to expand...
If he adds some weight he is a Darren Waller clone. Lots of need for TE’s like that in the league Stevens should have done several years ago.
 
PSUFBFAN said:
Thank you for bringing some common sense to this discussion. Yes, he dropped 2 passes in the MN game. He has caught a total of 9 all year. So that is a total of 11 passes thrown to him (confirmed). Have there been a few other drops - probably, but I can't specifically remember many - unlike Johnson and Polk who seemingly dropped 3 out of every 4 balls thrown their way last year.

If someone wants to take the time to review the play by play of each game (available at the PSU sports site), they can provide a definitive answer to how many times Shorter has been targeted. My general recollection is that he doesn't get more than 1 or 2 balls thrown to him each game. For comparison here are the receptions of - Hamler (46 receptions), Freiermuth (34), Dotson (22), Slade (12), Brown (11). Bowers (9).

So, the real issue is why is he only getting 1 or 2 targets a game? Somebody on the staff knows the answer. We don't.
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I agree. It seems his drops vs Minnesota have created a narrative that it has been all season. I can’t remember any drops prior to Minnesota. All the conversation was about Clifford not throwing to him. Unfortunately, the staff decided to target him more early vs Minnesota and he didn’t respond
 
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83wuzme said:
Last game, Chisena had been moved from backing up Dotson to starting at the WR “ X “ position. Shorter still got a number of reps, but I did not see any passes thrown his way. I expect the WR corps is going to look a lot different next season when moves like this are being made this deep into the schedule.
At 235 lb, there probably aren’t any NFL WR’s who are bigger than him. Whether somebody can be that size and still maintain the quickness needed to play the position is an open question.
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Yeah, the taller NFL receivers who are successful are like AJ Green and Julio Jones, fairly lean.
JuJu for the Steelers seems like a big receiver, but he's listed at 215#
 
Harrisburg Dave said:
Some decent wr coaching might help him. Not sure we offer that right now.
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Yeah it’s the coaches fault that a kid who was supposed to be one of the top high school recovers in his class hasn’t been able to (1) get open and (2) catch the ball. Apparently the coaches are coaching Shorter differently than Hamler, Friermuth, Dotson, etc. because they don’t have any problem with either. Seriously what a stupid post.
 
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danvillenit said:
I agree. It seems his drops vs Minnesota have created a narrative that it has been all season. I can’t remember any drops prior to Minnesota. All the conversation was about Clifford not throwing to him. Unfortunately, the staff decided to target him more early vs Minnesota and he didn’t respond
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Shorter was out for two games after MD, when he appeared to suffer a concussion on a slant pattern ( he caught the ball ). I think the MN game was supposed to be a coming out party for him and it obviously did not work out that way.
When players come in surrounded by as much hype as he did, it may create impossible expectations and it probably doesn’t benefit the player in any way. I have not seen anything from him in the last two seasons or spring games to understand these expectations. Sometimes, players who are absolutely dominant at one level can’t succeed at the next level because the game changes too much for them.
 
My concern is not with the drops but in his ability to get open against CBs. If he isn't being targeted, is it because he is having trouble getting open? At 250 lbs, he would be going against safeties and LBers. With his speed he could be more of a match up problem for them, whose feet aren't quite as nimble as a CB's presumably are.
 
I don't see coaching as the core issue with his troubles. He gets open, he runs the correct routes. He just drops balls that he should be catching. The kid just needs to string together a couple of catches to build his confidence. He's young and needs confidence. I suspect he's pretty fragile right now so it may take the off season or pre bowl game prep to begin the process of restoring his confidence. I don't believe he should be written off as a WR just yet.
 
WR’s that can’t catch should not be on the field.

And if a player can not catch a football why would a move to TE be a good thing?

How about LB....
 
PennStateTurf2002 said:
Drops aren’t an issue, it seems like it because of 1 bad game at Minnesota when they tried to make him a focus of the offense and take some pressure off Hamler and Pat. Hopefully they aren’t an issue is what I should say, hopefully that game doesn’t lead into issues he doesn’t have. I think targets are his big problem, he doesn’t feel like he is in the flow and pressed a little bit when he had a chance. He was open when they tried to go to him vs Minny.

The drops suck for sure but I had a much bigger problem with the interception. He had inside position, he is 6’4” and 235 with a small defensive back on him. I know the kid from Minny is a stud but with his size and positioning to start that play, there is zero reason for that to have a chance to be intercepted. He needs to learn to be aggressive, shield the defender and high point that ball. He faded and shrunk himself allowing the ball to come down to him. Not only should there be no chance of that being picked, but with his athletic ability and size that should be caught by him well over 50% of the time.
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Or at least draw pass interference on Winfield.
 
GregInPitt said:
WR’s that can’t catch should not be on the field.

And if a player can not catch a football why would a move to TE be a good thing?

How about LB....
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Harsh, but true. It’s almost, but not quite as bad as an RB with fumbilitis.
Dropped balls cost possessions because you can’t get first downs.
I don’t think LB is an option here. Drops can be cured as in the case of Bryant Johnson and Gesicki, but the inability to get separation and contest catches are a bigger concern.
 
psualt said:
I know he’s dropped some passes but his biggest problem is they aren’t even looking his way. Give him some targets and then see how he does.
Click to expand...

The targets he’s gotten, he hasn’t converted. When he hasn’t made the catch, it almost seems like he expects it. I would rather see him get upset with himself. He needs to fight for the ball every time like a fat kid going after the last Oreo.
 
They did the right thing. Scrap it this season and sit the kid. Start fresh next spring and get him some help mentally, like they did with Gesicki. The topic is moot until next season. This one is over and the job belongs to Chisena.
 
19333lion said:
He is already at the upper limits of size for a WR and seems to have difficulty getting open against CBs. He has the speed to make a change from 235 lbs to 250 or so without being seriously slowed down. He is a willing blocker too.

Guys go from TE to OT, S to LBer, so why not WR to TE?

It seems to me that he could use a change before entering the portal.
Click to expand...
If Joe was still in charge he would make Shorter play defensive back.
 
HE HAD 1 BAD GAME! Good lord, maybe he only had 1 bad qtr. He doesn't get open....before Minnesota when they threw him the ball he caught it.

But the problem is, he doesn't get open. He doesn't get open enough to make him a viable option. it is because he can't get open vs CB's. that is why the OP probably mentioned a change so he can get different match ups.
 
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Why don’t we just put players anywhere that we feel like. Hell let’s play Shorter at Qb since a lot of people on this board don’t like Clifford playing there
 
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