Deshaun Watson gets six-game suspension

Obliviax

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I am sure some will think this is a political post (TIC). But with all of the hyperventilating on this he got six games. It is my understanding that the NFL introduced some newspaper articles as evidence to the former federal judge (woman) that ruled on this. I am told that the Judge actually started to laugh when Watson's attorney's objected to using newspaper articles. He'll miss:
  • Bears
  • Panthers (vs Baker Mayfield)
  • Jets
  • Steelers (easy game)
  • Falcons
  • Chargers
He'll play against:
  • Pats
  • Ravens
  • Bengals
  • Dolphins
  • Bills
  • Bucs
  • Texans
  • Bengals
  • Ravens
  • Saints
  • WFT (AKA Commanders)
  • Steelers
 

royboy

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Watson's apparent obsession with massage sessions and happy endings seems strange, but I guess the NFL and legal system have spoken.

If he wins for Cleveland, those Browns fans will be very forgiving.
 

Obliviax

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Watson's apparent obsession with massage sessions and happy endings seems strange, but I guess the NFL and legal system have spoken.

If he wins for Cleveland, those Browns fans will be very forgiving.
Just rumor mill, but from what I am told, two women had legit complaints. The rest were only verifiable in that Watson paid for a massage at their parlors. There was no intimidation or perceived violence. The claims were that he asked for, and sometimes received a happy ending.

Soliciting a prostitute is what it comes down to. There were also no criminal charges filed. You compare this to a Big Ben charge (forcing himself on a woman that was so drunk she couldn't stand up while guards watched the bathroom doors) it is hard to imagine that he could have been suspended worse than Ben (they got the same penalty, six games).
 
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bvillebaron

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I am sure some will think this is a political post (TIC). But with all of the hyperventilating on this he got six games. It is my understanding that the NFL introduced some newspaper articles as evidence to the former federal judge (woman) that ruled on this. I am told that the Judge actually started to laugh when Watson's attorney's objected to using newspaper articles. He'll miss:
  • Bears
  • Panthers (vs Baker Mayfield)
  • Jets
  • Steelers (easy game)
  • Falcons
  • Chargers
He'll play against:
  • Pats
  • Ravens
  • Bengals
  • Dolphins
  • Bills
  • Bucs
  • Texans
  • Bengals
  • Ravens
  • Saints
  • WFT (AKA Commanders)
  • Steelers
Watson is EXTREMELY fortunate, they went to this process for deciding whether to punish for violating the personal conduct code rather than have Goodell be judge, juror and executioner. If I am Jerry Jones and Zeke Elliott I would be absolutely livid that Watson gets the same punishment he got despite the fact there was one accuser in his case; she was involved in a physical fight with another woman which resulted in bruises and abrasions; the NFL's investigator, a woman, who was the only person who interviewed Elliott and the "victim" submitted a report which said she did not find the woman credible and recommended no punishment, etc. But hey Mr. PC, Roger Goodell, was going to prove the NFL was "serious" about domestic violence irrespective of facts.
 

Obliviax

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Watson is EXTREMELY fortunate, they went to this process for deciding whether to punish for violating the personal conduct code rather than have Goodell be judge, juror and executioner. If I am Jerry Jones and Zeke Elliott I would be absolutely livid that Watson gets the same punishment he got despite the fact there was one accuser in his case; she was involved in a physical fight with another woman which resulted in bruises and abrasions; the NFL's investigator, a woman, who was the only person who interviewed Elliott and the "victim" submitted a report which said she did not find the woman credible and recommended no punishment, etc. But hey Mr. PC, Roger Goodell, was going to prove the NFL was "serious" about domestic violence irrespective of facts.
Right. At issue is that they local governments felt there was not enough evidence for criminal charges. Do it came down to PR. NFL was going to get blasted by the NFLPA if they did anything beyond the judges ruling
 
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bvillebaron

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Right. At issue is that they local governments felt there was not enough evidence for criminal charges. Do it came down to PR. NFL was going to get blasted by the NFLPA if they did anything beyond the judges ruling
Yeah I get it and it seems to me that what happened to Elliott was a large factor in the NFLPA refusing to permit Goodell to be solely in charge of discipline and the establishment of the system in the new labor deal. I also don't know what evidentiary rules or "standards" for discipline apply to these proceedings. Having said that, it's obvious this resulted in an extremely favorable outcome for Watson.
 

Cletus11

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Just rumor mill, but from what I am told, two women had legit complaints. The rest were only verifiable in that Watson paid for a massage at their parlors. There was no intimidation or perceived violence. The claims were that he asked for, and sometimes received a happy ending.

Soliciting a prostitute is what it comes down to. There were also no criminal charges filed. You compare this to a Big Ben charge (forcing himself on a woman that was so drunk she couldn't stand up while guards watched the bathroom doors) it is hard to imagine that he could have been suspended worse than Ben (they got the same penalty, six games).
True. If all that Watson did was ask for happy ending and if the massage therapist obliged he tipped them well, then that is not that horrible of a thing.
 

Delcolion915

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True. If all that Watson did was ask for happy ending and if the massage therapist obliged he tipped them well, then that is not that horrible of a thing.
Really? Ok then, let's see you go do that then get back to us on the outcome
 

Cletus11

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Really? Ok then, let's see you go do that then get back to us on the outcome
i am not saying it is right, but if that is all that actually occurred that is at a much different level then domestic abuse type of situation where a man is physically beating up on his wife/girlfriend.

I would be pissed off if some dude solicited my hypothetical massuese daughter but when she said not then nothing happened. I would be looking to go beat the dude with a baseball bat into oblivion if some boyfriend/husband punched and beat up my daughter.
 

lurkerlion

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Watson was not just asking for a happy ending. Watson was a serial predator. He surely had a phone number available for guaranteed happy endings as part of the deal. But no, he was using a phone number for professional massage therapists and trying to manipulate them into giving him his thrills. However, the manipulation was his thrill. Predator.
 

Obliviax

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Watson was not just asking for a happy ending. Watson was a serial predator. He surely had a phone number available for guaranteed happy endings as part of the deal. But no, he was using a phone number for professional massage therapists and trying to manipulate them into giving him his thrills. However, the manipulation was his thrill. Predator.
Manipulate? Not questioning how disgusting that is but how was the massues manipulated? Seems to me the dude gets excited then offers money. At that point it is yes or no. And there were no charges filed as prosecution said there wasn’t enough evidence (there’sa joke in there somewhere)

i suspect many women doing happy endings have been human trafficked which is the real crime. They are banned with drugs and physically threatened. That is the real crime. The nfl made their bed when they let Kraft off with a wrist slap
 

lurkerlion

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Manipulate? Not questioning how disgusting that is but how was the massues manipulated? Seems to me the dude gets excited then offers money. At that point it is yes or no. And there were no charges filed as prosecution said there wasn’t enough evidence (there’sa joke in there somewhere)

i suspect many women doing happy endings have been human trafficked which is the real crime. They are banned with drugs and physically threatened. That is the real crime. The nfl made their bed when they let Kraft off with a wrist slap
I don’t think he simply asked politely yes or no, but that is a factual issue. Not saying he used force, but I would think dangling money, promises of other benefits, or who knows what. IDK if he exposed himself.

Regardless, he chose pro therapists not pro pros. If it happened once or twice, you could argue he was just checking what was on the menu. However, he was getting some kind of thrill by trying to change the menu.
 
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Obliviax

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I don’t think he simply asked politely yes or no, but that is a factual issue. Not saying he used force, but I would think dangling money, promises of other benefits, or who knows what. IDK if he exposed himself.

Regardless, he chose pro therapists not pro pros. If it happened once or twice, you could argue he was just checking what was on the menu. However, he was getting some kind of thrill by trying to change the menu.
No doubt. He was a John, a solicitor. Compare that to Ben trying to force himself in a drunk girl and who got the same suspension
 

bourbon n blues

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I don’t think he simply asked politely yes or no, but that is a factual issue. Not saying he used force, but I would think dangling money, promises of other benefits, or who knows what. IDK if he exposed himself.

Regardless, he chose pro therapists not pro pros. If it happened once or twice, you could argue he was just checking what was on the menu. However, he was getting some kind of thrill by trying to change the menu.
If you solicit a serious therapist you’re going to get have issues. He’s a predator.
 

IANit

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No doubt. He was a John, a solicitor. Compare that to Ben trying to force himself in a drunk girl and who got the same suspension
I think he should have gotten more than 6 games. Not just for his conduct, but as a penalty to the Browns for picking a QB with an obvious problem. Ben's suspension was reduced to 4, so I imagine Watson's will be too.
 

lurkerlion

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No doubt. He was a John, a solicitor. Compare that to Ben trying to force himself in a drunk girl and who got the same suspension
Ben wasn’t a good guy but that is a different case. Hard to make comparisons. Ben‘s actions were indefensible unless you want to call it equal levels of intoxication equals consent which goes on every weekend on college campuses. He had one other incident in Vegas but nothing much came from that.

But I will try to explain my opinion one more time. I am not claiming Watson committed a crime beyond solicitation. Facts at a trial may show he crossed a line but I am unsure. What I do know is that his MO is troubling and he wasn’t seeking sexual gratification. He was seeking the thrill of the kill by “seducing” these women with an overly complicated fantasy game. Same game every time. If he tried it a couple times for fun, I would not think much about. But he turned it into a game of power and he needs to address that reality or he will find himself upping the game and consequences later.
 
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Mufasa94

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Compare that to Ben trying to force himself in a drunk girl and who got the same suspension
That is allegedly. Read the police reports made available at the time, and enough of Miss DTF’s friends described questionable actions at best by her.

Ben may have gotten away with a horrible crime, or he may have just been punished for disgusting behavior.
 

Obliviax

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Ben wasn’t a good guy but that is a different case. Hard to make comparisons. Ben‘s actions were indefensible unless you want to call it equal levels of intoxication equals consent which goes on every weekend on college campuses. He had one other incident in Vegas but nothing much came from that.

But I will try to explain my opinion one more time. I am not claiming Watson committed a crime beyond solicitation. Facts at a trial may show he crossed a line but I am unsure. What I do know is that his MO is troubling and he wasn’t seeking sexual gratification. He was seeking the thrill of the kill by “seducing” these women with an overly complicated fantasy game. Same game every time. If he tried it a couple times for fun, I would not think much about. But he turned it into a game of power and he needs to address that reality or he will find himself upping the game and consequences later.
I totally agree with that. He was soliciting, what amounts to, prostitution. In most places around the world, that is legal (and many in the USA). But he feeds into a global trafficking problem. To me, he is like a heroin user. I don't arrest users, I arrest their enablers, dealers. Plus, he didn't force himself on someone. The girls do what they do, somewhat voluntarily no different than strippers or escorts.

IMHO, he's been suspended for what amounts to 24 games by the time he plays again. That is far worse than Kraft or Ben. He's not a guy I would call my friend or root for but time to turn the page.
 

The Spin Meister

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That is allegedly. Read the police reports made available at the time, and enough of Miss DTF’s friends described questionable actions at best by her.

Ben may have gotten away with a horrible crime, or he may have just been punished for disgusting behavior.
The girl was very drunk and acting obnoxiously, even fell down a couple times. But that doesn’t permit someone from picking her up, taking her into a bathroom, locking the door, having your personal body guard block the door and rape her in the bathroom.
 

Obliviax

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The girl was very drunk and acting obnoxiously, even fell down a couple times. But that doesn’t permit someone from picking her up, taking her into a bathroom, locking the door, having your personal body guard block the door and rape her in the bathroom.
Exactly...in fact, even having sex with a woman who is not coherent enough to "consent" is a crime in many states (not sure about PA).
 

Mufasa94

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The girl was very drunk and acting obnoxiously, even fell down a couple times. But that doesn’t permit someone from picking her up, taking her into a bathroom, locking the door, having your personal body guard block the door and rape her in the bathroom.
Please provide documentation that supports that description, especially the second sentence exactly as it is written.
 

The Spin Meister

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Please provide documentation that supports that description, especially the second sentence exactly as it is written.
Do your own. It was well reported and supported by eyewitnesses and police accounts. I should added her friends were screaming to open the door of the bathroom while he did it.

Interesting side note: Ben’s personal bodyguard was an off duty Pa state cop who was fired after this incident.
 

bourbon n blues

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Do your own. It was well reported and supported by eyewitnesses and police accounts. I should added her friends were screaming to open the door of the bathroom while he did it.

Interesting side note: Ben’s personal bodyguard was an off duty Pa state cop who was fired after this incident.
It happened years ago of course. The NFL tolerates this crap, things that would cause us to lose our professional license or are job get these guys a suspension if that.
 

The Spin Meister

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It happened years ago of course. The NFL tolerates this crap, things that would cause us to lose our professional license or are job get these guys a suspension if that.
You or me....at the very least, would have been charged and had over a year of limbo spending huge amounts of money on legal defense.

I don’t know but am confident the woman received a large settlement. Would interesting to see how she is living now.
 

bourbon n blues

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You or me....at the very least, would have been charged and had over a year of limbo spending huge amounts of money on legal defense.

I don’t know but am confident the woman received a large settlement. Would interesting to see how she is living now.
All true, NFL player kills a guy in a DUI accident, he plays again. You or me? We lose about everything. Hey, let's do some dog fighting! We get caught, we lose everything. They play again.
 

Obliviax

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You or me....at the very least, would have been charged and had over a year of limbo spending huge amounts of money on legal defense.

I don’t know but am confident the woman received a large settlement. Would interesting to see how she is living now.
its a great point. If the victim is in line to make a ton via civil case, they really don't want the criminal case to drag on. Typically, civil cases will await the outcome of the criminal case. So in cases where the defendant has unlimited cash (cases against govts and police), they'll drag it on forever in the hopes of exhausting the person suing. As a result, victims will often try to get criminal charges dropped as a result of getting a big payout. Not only do they have the leverage to maximize the dollar value, they also get their money sooner.
 

Mufasa94

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Do your own. It was well reported and supported by eyewitnesses and police accounts. I should added her friends were screaming to open the door of the bathroom while he did it.
That’s not how things work. You make a claim, so it is on you to back it up. Your refusal makes it appear you used a certain creative writing style that PSU fans are familiar with from a certain presentment that was made public barely a year later than when this occurred.

PS - I did read the witness reports at the time, which is why I made the request.
 
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bourbon n blues

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That’s not how things work. You make a claim, so it is on you to back it up. Your refusal makes it appear you used a certain creative writing style that PSU fans are familiar with from a certain presentment that was made public barely a year later than when this occurred.

PS - I did read the witness reports at the time, which is why I made the request.
With old news it can work that way.
 

Lion84

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Calvin Ridley got a year and did nothing illegal and lost like $11M - yeah that seems fair and Watson get 6 games - got to love the NFL’s logic.
 
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The Spin Meister

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That’s not how things work. You make a claim, so it is on you to back it up. Your refusal makes it appear you used a certain creative writing style that PSU fans are familiar with from a certain presentment that was made public barely a year later than when this occurred.

PS - I did read the witness reports at the time, which is why I made the request.
I read them and watched a substantial number of news reports. Several witnesses saw him carry her into the bathroom. He locked the door. His body guard, an off duty Pa state cop, guarded the door. Her friends were screaming to open the door, both refused.

She went to hospital and had a rape kit done. No semen was found but she had abrasions in her groin area consistent with recent sexual activity and there was latex residue. So he apparently used a condom.

You, I, or any normal man would have been charged with a minimum of sexual,assault.

Milligrams police released her interview a few weeks later. She was so drunk and confused that she was pretty incoherent so her testimony would have been worthless.
 

The Spin Meister

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its a great point. If the victim is in line to make a ton via civil case, they really don't want the criminal case to drag on. Typically, civil cases will await the outcome of the criminal case. So in cases where the defendant has unlimited cash (cases against govts and police), they'll drag it on forever in the hopes of exhausting the person suing. As a result, victims will often try to get criminal charges dropped as a result of getting a big payout. Not only do they have the leverage to maximize the dollar value, they also get their money sooner.
More like she was paid a high settlement if this went away. Press charges and all offers are off the table.
 
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Mufasa94

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I read them and watched a substantial number of news reports. Several witnesses saw him carry her into the bathroom...
Zero witnesses claimed this, neither did the accuser. Your writing of additional text does not qualify as documentation supporting your claim.

Btw, another of your invented proclamations passed off as a fact:
Interesting side note: Ben’s personal bodyguard was an off duty Pa state cop who was fired after this incident.
is also false. See article from 2019 stating how he retired in 2019 from the state police:

Not saying everything you wrote is incorrect. Just re-iterating that incorrect inflammatory descriptions should not be used to try and make a point.
 

dailybuck777

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Missing in the public discussion of this is that 18 women wrote statements that Watson acted appropriately during the massage sessions. https://news.yahoo.com/18-therapists-defend-deshaun-watson-174816297.html

Obviously, if Watson saw so many massage therapists he was looking for sex. As a very wild guess, I would estimate that the went over the line in seeking sex with about 5 women and that when the women's Attorney fished for clients he picked up about 15 more who lied or exaggerated about their claims.
 
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Obliviax

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Missing in the public discussion of this is that 18 women wrote statements that Watson acted appropriately during the massage sessions. https://news.yahoo.com/18-therapists-defend-deshaun-watson-174816297.html

Obviously, if Watson saw so many massage therapists he was looking for sex. As a very wild guess, I would estimate that the went over the line in seeking sex with about 5 women and that when the women's Attorney fished for clients he picked up about 15 more who lied or exaggerated about their claims.
I tend to agree. From everything I have read, it was all pay to play. In my mind it is much worse to have a guy force himself on a woman. Kobe seems to always get a pass on these discussions

But to your larger point, when anattorney starts to Float dollars you can bet people will come out of the woodwork
 

Cowbell Man

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I tend to agree. From everything I have read, it was all pay to play. In my mind it is much worse to have a guy force himself on a woman. Kobe seems to always get a pass on these discussions

But to your larger point, when anattorney starts to Float dollars you can bet people will come out of the woodwork
Kobe does and shouldn’t. However, unlike most people in these situations he was unusually sympathetic to the woman in his statement after the criminal charges were dropped, recognizing her pain and the difference in what is consensual and what isn’t. That may be the source of the pass.

Even today people haven’t learned there is value in admitting “I am a complete ________(insert appropriate derogatory term).
 

Obliviax

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Kobe does and shouldn’t. However, unlike most people in these situations he was unusually sympathetic to the woman in his statement after the criminal charges were dropped, recognizing her pain and the difference in what is consensual and what isn’t. That may be the source of the pass.

Even today people haven’t learned there is value in admitting “I am a complete ________(insert appropriate derogatory term).
Agreed. But you don’t admit anything until the criminal and civil cases have settled. In fact, the criminal element will never be settled unless he’s convicted or found not guilty in court (double jeopardy). They can charge him in 2030 if they want
 
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Cowbell Man

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Agreed. But you don’t admit anything until the criminal and civil cases have settled. In fact, the criminal element will never be settled unless he’s convicted or found not guilty in court (double jeopardy). They can charge him in 2030 if they want
Which makes Kobe’s case rather interesting. He made the statement after charges were dropped because the accuser wouldn’t testify. The statement also included an agreement with the accuser that the statement would not be used in the civil case. They settled the civil case afterward.

then….he allegedly settled with his wife with an absurd Diamond ring, among likely other ways.
 
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