Dems Go After a Main Street Necessity, Not a Wall Street Loophole

m.knox

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Hard to believe Biden and his cult are going after small business. What a bunch of idiots.

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/art...essity_not_a_wall_street_loophole_845419.html

Small business owners have always had it tough — making payroll, dealing with customers, and of course, writing a large check to Uncle Sam at the end of the year — but this year inflation is making things particularly hard. Yet somehow, Senate Democrats think kicking these people while they’re down is a good plan.

There’s growing traction among Senate Democrats to put in place a new tax on pass-through entities to help pay for Biden’s Build Back Better plan. While advocates claim that expanding the small business tax is “closing loopholes,” the reality is that this would result in a tax increase on the vast majority of Main Street shops. According to the Tax Foundation, over 90% of American businesses are set up as pass-through entities. That is, income is reported on the tax return of the business owner, rather than paying a separate corporate rate.


This new tax would hurt small businesses that are already struggling under current record levels of inflation. It’s a horrible plan.

Ninety one percent of small business owners recently reported concern about inflation to the National Federation of Independent Businesses. Fifty six percent of small business owners reported that it has had a substantial impact, while 35% report a moderate impact. In the survey data released on July 20, 2022, three-quarters said that inflation pressure is still worsening. Only 1% indicated that it was getting better.

This, of course, comes not long after the pandemic-related shutdowns of 2020 and mandates of 2021. According to the Federal Reserve, 200,000 extra American businesses shut down in 2020 as a result of the pandemic.

The tax proposal would make things so much worse. It fails to distinguish between business income, which is often mostly re-invested into the business, and take-home pay. As a result, business owners might be on the hook to pay taxes on gross profit, instead of the net proceeds. It doesn’t matter that they had to spend a large chunk of their profits on rent, payroll, and employee benefits; those expenses are taxed all the same.
 

LionDeNittany

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Hard to believe Biden and his cult are going after small business. What a bunch of idiots.

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/art...essity_not_a_wall_street_loophole_845419.html

Small business owners have always had it tough — making payroll, dealing with customers, and of course, writing a large check to Uncle Sam at the end of the year — but this year inflation is making things particularly hard. Yet somehow, Senate Democrats think kicking these people while they’re down is a good plan.

There’s growing traction among Senate Democrats to put in place a new tax on pass-through entities to help pay for Biden’s Build Back Better plan. While advocates claim that expanding the small business tax is “closing loopholes,” the reality is that this would result in a tax increase on the vast majority of Main Street shops. According to the Tax Foundation, over 90% of American businesses are set up as pass-through entities. That is, income is reported on the tax return of the business owner, rather than paying a separate corporate rate.


This new tax would hurt small businesses that are already struggling under current record levels of inflation. It’s a horrible plan.

Ninety one percent of small business owners recently reported concern about inflation to the National Federation of Independent Businesses. Fifty six percent of small business owners reported that it has had a substantial impact, while 35% report a moderate impact. In the survey data released on July 20, 2022, three-quarters said that inflation pressure is still worsening. Only 1% indicated that it was getting better.

This, of course, comes not long after the pandemic-related shutdowns of 2020 and mandates of 2021. According to the Federal Reserve, 200,000 extra American businesses shut down in 2020 as a result of the pandemic.


The tax proposal would make things so much worse. It fails to distinguish between business income, which is often mostly re-invested into the business, and take-home pay. As a result, business owners might be on the hook to pay taxes on gross profit, instead of the net proceeds. It doesn’t matter that they had to spend a large chunk of their profits on rent, payroll, and employee benefits; those expenses are taxed all the same.

The destruction of small business is a priority for the democrats.
This should be obvious by now.

LdN
 

Darth_VadEER

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Dec 14, 2010
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Hard to believe Biden and his cult are going after small business. What a bunch of idiots.

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/art...essity_not_a_wall_street_loophole_845419.html

Small business owners have always had it tough — making payroll, dealing with customers, and of course, writing a large check to Uncle Sam at the end of the year — but this year inflation is making things particularly hard. Yet somehow, Senate Democrats think kicking these people while they’re down is a good plan.

There’s growing traction among Senate Democrats to put in place a new tax on pass-through entities to help pay for Biden’s Build Back Better plan. While advocates claim that expanding the small business tax is “closing loopholes,” the reality is that this would result in a tax increase on the vast majority of Main Street shops. According to the Tax Foundation, over 90% of American businesses are set up as pass-through entities. That is, income is reported on the tax return of the business owner, rather than paying a separate corporate rate.


This new tax would hurt small businesses that are already struggling under current record levels of inflation. It’s a horrible plan.

Ninety one percent of small business owners recently reported concern about inflation to the National Federation of Independent Businesses. Fifty six percent of small business owners reported that it has had a substantial impact, while 35% report a moderate impact. In the survey data released on July 20, 2022, three-quarters said that inflation pressure is still worsening. Only 1% indicated that it was getting better.

This, of course, comes not long after the pandemic-related shutdowns of 2020 and mandates of 2021. According to the Federal Reserve, 200,000 extra American businesses shut down in 2020 as a result of the pandemic.


The tax proposal would make things so much worse. It fails to distinguish between business income, which is often mostly re-invested into the business, and take-home pay. As a result, business owners might be on the hook to pay taxes on gross profit, instead of the net proceeds. It doesn’t matter that they had to spend a large chunk of their profits on rent, payroll, and employee benefits; those expenses are taxed all the same.

I have a pass through and this would really be a blow.
 

bdgan

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The destruction of small business is a priority for the democrats.
This should be obvious by now.

LdN
The term "small businesses is misused. Most people think of things like restaurants but small businesses also include companies with revenues up to $40 million and up to 1,500 employees. A large percentage of these businesses are suppliers to big businesses. It's politically popular to demonize big businesses and suck up to small businesses but the fact is they are tied together at the hip. If you hit one you hit them all.
 

pioneerlion83

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Have to agree that going after small business is not the way to increase tax revenue.
However, this is what happens when big businesses continually, steadfastly, and ruthlessly refuse and dodge and off-shores and out-sources and tax-credits-subsidizes their way to avoid paying their fair share of taxes - at all levels of government.
 
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Darth_VadEER

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The term "small businesses is misused. Most people think of things like restaurants but small businesses also include companies with revenues up to $40 million and up to 1,500 employees. A large percentage of these businesses are suppliers to big businesses. It's politically popular to demonize big businesses and suck up to small businesses but the fact is they are tied together at the hip. If you hit one you hit them all.

How many businesses with 1,500 employees are pass through entities though?

Pass throughs are single member llcs, partnerships....basically sole proprietorships with some liability protection.
 

m.knox

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Have to agree that going after small business is not the way to increase tax revenue.
However, this is what happens when big businesses continually, steadfastly, and ruthlessly refuse and dodge and off-shores and out-sources and tax-credits-subsidizes their way to avoid paying their fair share of taxes - at all levels of government.

LOL.. there you go again with your feelings.......

Why did John Kerry buy a boat in a different state? Why did Joe Biden route his earnings through an S corporation? Why did the uber liberal grandson of Nathan's Hot Dogs tell me to get a tax accountant like him?
 

m.knox

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The destruction of small business is a priority for the democrats.
This should be obvious by now.

LdN

I love how cavalier some lefties can be about the struggle of small business owners. So empathetic. lol...
 

SheldonJoe2215

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I only looked at the article for about 30 seconds and it lost my interest when it appeared to be confusing the terms revenue and income.

One other caveat is that I am not well versed in the details of the BBB plan.
 

Darth_VadEER

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I only looked at the article for about 30 seconds and it lost my interest when it appeared to be confusing the terms revenue and income.

One other caveat is that I am not well versed in the details of the BBB plan.

For pass throughs their revenue is their income.. Their taxable income is the P/L statement and deductions.

I'm a single member LLC. The business itself doesn't pay a separate tax, it's paid on my own personal tax filing. I think they report all my revenue as income, then it's widdled down to my taxable income.

I'm not an accountant though.

So if my business revenue is $250,000 this year, that's considered my gross income...but I won't need to pay tax on the whole amount.
 
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2lion70

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For pass throughs their revenue is their income.. Their taxable income is the P/L statement and deductions.

I'm a single member LLC. The business itself doesn't pay a separate tax, it's paid on my own personal tax filing. I think they report all my revenue as income, then it's widdled down to my taxable income.

I'm not an accountant though.

So if my business revenue is $250,000 this year, that's considered my income...but I won't need to pay tax on the whole amount.
The process you note is not really any different for all self-employed and most salaried. Income, less deductions = taxable income.
The pass-through entities have had too many loopholes and have avoided paying taxes on an equal basis as others.
Bunch of whining wussies.
 

Darth_VadEER

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The process you note is not really any different for all self-employed and most salaried. Income, less deductions = taxable income.
The pass-through entities have had too many loopholes and have avoided paying taxes on an equal basis as others.
Bunch of whining wussies.

No, you obviously don't get it and you're too stupid to ever figure it out....

We pay more taxes than other people, start a business that makes money and find out for yourself.

Or start paying your taxes based on your gross income, because this is what this proposal essentially does to anyone operating a pass through.
 

Darth_VadEER

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What loophole am I getting? I pay all the same taxes everyone else does, PLUS the additional 7.5% for the self employment/social security tax...

The only benefit is the liability protection....
 

DJ Spanky

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Had to detour through a neighboring to get to my mechanic today: I was shocked at the number of businesses which had closed. When I talked to him about it, he said it really accelerated during the pandemic and has just snowballed since then.
 

maypole

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Read the actual proposal, not this very biased interpretation of it. What the article is talking about is carried interest, which very few people deduct. It has nothing to do with raising taxes on small business, but it is fixing a flaw in the tax code allowing for a investment manager to avoid paying taxes like the rest of us. Under the proposed changes, individuals who make more than $400,000 annually and couples who make more than $500,000 would have to pay a 3.8% tax on earnings from their pass-through business income.
 
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m.knox

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They let small business get destroyed with lockdowns and riots.

They, the democrats, hate small business.

It is as if they view small business as their competition. I'd believe it. I mean, they already view religion and families as competition.
 
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psualt

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I only looked at the article for about 30 seconds and it lost my interest when it appeared to be confusing the terms revenue and income.

One other caveat is that I am not well versed in the details of the BBB plan.
Not well written. It doesn't even tell you what the tax is for.
 

m.knox

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Read the actual proposal, not this very biased interpretation of it. What the article is talking about is carried interest, which very few people deduct. It has nothing to do with raising taxes on small business, but it is fixing a flaw in the tax code allowing for a investment manager to avoid paying taxes like the rest of us. Under the proposed changes, individuals who make more than $400,000 annually and couples who make more than $500,000 would have to pay a 3.8% tax on earnings from their pass-through business income.

Wrong again.

How Biden’s Business Tax Proposals Would Impact Taxpayers Across States​


https://taxfoundation.org/biden-business-tax-proposals-impact-taxpayers-across-states/

  • Passthrough business increases
    • Impose Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT) on active pass-through income above $400,000
    • Make the active passthrough loss limitation permanent
 

WPTLION

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As a small business owner the article makes no sense. There is not a snowballs chance in hell they are taxing on revenue. Which the example basically says. Gross income might be a different story but how would you not get all of the deductions you already have to get to the businesses net income?
 

maypole

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Wrong again.

How Biden’s Business Tax Proposals Would Impact Taxpayers Across States​


https://taxfoundation.org/biden-business-tax-proposals-impact-taxpayers-across-states/

  • Passthrough business increases
    • Impose Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT) on active pass-through income above $400,000
    • Make the active passthrough loss limitation permanent
No, not wrong. The conclusion is based on the assumption that buyers ultimately pay all taxes. Actually, by putting a $400K floor, a mom and pop small business gains an advantage over larger businesses.
 
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LionDeNittany

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As a small business owner the article makes no sense. There is not a snowballs chance in hell they are taxing on revenue. Which the example basically says. Gross income might be a different story but how would you not get all of the deductions you already have to get to the businesses net income?

It does make no sense. But perhaps they are arguing that your gross income puts you above the 400k income threshold which cuts your other tax breaks.

The Dems are working diligently to create a society where upward mobility is difficult and almost impossible.

Make less than x, everything is free. Make more than x all the tax breaks are wiped out.

Until you get to Y which is difficult for almost everyone, you're stuck in dead mans land.

So better to just stay poor and collect.
 

maypole

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Passthrough increases are the second biggest tax in the package. Hitting Mom and Pop right in the stomach.......
Mom and pop make $400K?Or gain competitive advantage over business making over $400K?
 

Ski

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It does make no sense. But perhaps they are arguing that your gross income puts you above the 400k income threshold which cuts your other tax breaks.

The Dems are working diligently to create a society where upward mobility is difficult and almost impossible.

Make less than x, everything is free. Make more than x all the tax breaks are wiped out.

Until you get to Y which is difficult for almost everyone, you're stuck in dead mans land.

So better to just stay poor and collect.

You don't need to get ahead. Government will give you everything that you need. You can trust it. Now, about those weapons you own....................

iu
 
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m.knox

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Mom and pop make $400K?Or gain competitive advantage over business making over $400K?

"Let’s say there is Main Street Diner, owned by Erica. Erica’s Diner makes $400,001 a year. After paying $50,000 to each of her four employees, and $30,000 to two others, $2,500 a month in rent for her shop front, and another $2,500 a month in supplies and products, Erica’s personal income comes out to $80,000 a year — not bad, but a far cry from the $400,000 consistently repeated by the Biden Administration.

But under the proposed plan Erica would be considered part of the “top 1%” that needs to pay the additional tax on top of typical income tax and self-employment tax."
 

bdgan

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How many businesses with 1,500 employees are pass through entities though?

Pass throughs are single member llcs, partnerships....basically sole proprietorships with some liability protection.
S Corporations are pass through entities an they can have up to 100 owners.
 

WPTLION

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"Let’s say there is Main Street Diner, owned by Erica. Erica’s Diner makes $400,001 a year. After paying $50,000 to each of her four employees, and $30,000 to two others, $2,500 a month in rent for her shop front, and another $2,500 a month in supplies and products, Erica’s personal income comes out to $80,000 a year — not bad, but a far cry from the $400,000 consistently repeated by the Biden Administration.

But under the proposed plan Erica would be considered part of the “top 1%” that needs to pay the additional tax on top of typical income tax and self-employment tax."
That makes no sense however if what they are saying that Biden is considering that person to be making 400K. Which since Biden 66 top economic advisors have an average of 2.6 years business experience explains a lot!
 

2lion70

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No, you obviously don't get it and you're too stupid to ever figure it out....

We pay more taxes than other people, start a business that makes money and find out for yourself.

Or start paying your taxes based on your gross income, because this is what this proposal essentially does to anyone operating a pass through.

Pass-through taxation | Wex - LII / Legal Information …


Instead, the income passes to the owners of the business who pays personal income taxes for their share of the business. Pass-through taxation typically applies to sole proprietorships, partnerships, and S-corporations as long as no exception applies. This is opposed to either traditional corporations or C-corporations, in which the company itself pays corporate taxes on income the corporation earns and later gets taxed on the owner level whether through sale of stock or distributions.
https://www.law.cornell.edu › wex › pass-through_taxationhttps://www.bing.com/search?q=pass+...c=8-12&cvid=99e8e801d92d46a9a76c9b4494753121#


You get to deduct operating expenses, office at home..... Net Taxable Income. Just like others.
Quit crying snowflake. If you don't like it get a different job or move out of the country.
 

Darth_VadEER

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You get to deduct operating expenses, office at home..... Net Taxable Income. Just like others.
Quit crying snowflake. If you don't like it get a different job or move out of the country.

And read what they are trying to change it to, moron...that's the whole point.
 

Darth_VadEER

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As a small business owner the article makes no sense. There is not a snowballs chance in hell they are taxing on revenue. Which the example basically says. Gross income might be a different story but how would you not get all of the deductions you already have to get to the businesses net income?

They will make it a double tax...so you pay the income tax on it but the business pays tax on the same money that gets passed to you.

So the business pays the tax, then you pay the tax again for income.
 

2lion70

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They will make it a double tax...so you pay the income tax on it but the business pays tax on the same money that gets passes to you.

So the business pays the tax, then you pay the tax again for income.
The business will only pass on net income - after deducting expenses. Currently those expenses are deducted by the business owner (Schedule C and any supporting Forms and Schedules). Now the business will deduct those expenses and pass on net income to the owner.
 

Darth_VadEER

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The business will only pass on net income - after deducting expenses. Currently those expenses are deducted by the business owner (Schedule C and any supporting Forms and Schedules). Now the business will deduct those expenses and pass on net income to the owner.

Like I said, a double tax.

All revenues in a pass through are considered income.

Because after I get the money, I have to pay income tax on it. They want to tax the business, then tax the same money that goes to the owner.
 

The Spin Meister

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They let small business get destroyed with lockdowns and riots.

They, the democrats, hate small business.

It is as if they view small business as their competition. I'd believe it. I mean, they already view religion and families as competition.
Would like to see to see the data but am wiling to bet that the vast majority of small business owners are conservative or moderates, most likely Rs. Other than the west coast loons and New York libs. And a lot are members of NFIB and /or donate to Rs and moderates in order to protect their businesses. Even most employees of small businesses would likely be conservative/moderates.

A lot of major corporations are liberal and most of their employees are too. So wipe out the small business community and help your liberal base.
 
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2lion70

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Like I said, a double tax.

All revenues in a pass through are considered income.

Because after I get the money, I have to pay income tax on it. They want to tax the business, then tax the same money that goes to the owner.
The individual business owner still gets all the usual deductions and credits - like all other taxpayers. Fact is many small business owners have cheated on their taxes for decades - time they start paying like everyone else.
 

2lion70

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Like I said, a double tax.

All revenues in a pass through are considered income. Net of expenses, not gross.

Because after I get the money, I have to pay income tax on it. They want to tax the business, then tax the same money that goes to the owner.
 

m.knox

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Would like to see to see the data but am wiling to bet that the vast mojoeity is small business owners are conservative or moderates, most likely Rs. Other than the west coast loons and New York libs. And a lot are members of NFIB and /or donate to Rs and moderates in order to protect their businesses. Even most employees of small businesses would likely be conservative/moderates.

A lot of major corporations are liberal and most of their employees are too. So wipe out the small business community and help your liberal base.

It might be a little more broad than that. Members of the NFIB (business owners) simply look for an advocate. Not too different than a union or even BLM. They want someone to represent their interests.

Ask and ye shall receive.


https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/National_Federation_of_Independent_Business

Small business owners run the gamut politically. For instance, 33 percent identify as Republicans, 32 percent as Democrats, and 29 percent as Independent.[4]

That said, the funds come from the conservatives.... As usual, democrats are mooching.
 
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2lion70

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It might be a little more broad than that. Members of the NFIB (business owners) simply look for an advocate. Not too different than a union or even BLM. They want someone to represent their interests.

Ask and ye shall receive.


https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/National_Federation_of_Independent_Business

Small business owners run the gamut politically. For instance, 33 percent identify as Republicans, 32 percent as Democrats, and 29 percent as Independent.[4]

That said, the funds come from the conservatives.... As usual, democrats are mooching.
You are a snowflake with a persecution/victim complex.
Grow up.
 
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