Dean from Cornell to PSU ?????

[nerfstate]

I know it's the offseason and this is a message board w/ anonymous accounts, but I feel like we're over thinking this. Dean wants somewhere else--he (maybe) decided that the right place is the Best Place. Cael was like, sure, all are welcome, and everyone has an equal chance to make the lineup. What else is there to worry about at this point? Rumor may not even be true.

 

[dicemen99]

Huh? A first redshirt year would clearly have been better for both Morgan and Zain, not just in hindsight but even at the time. ...

Zain beat then 2x champ Steiber one month in. He was ready to go. Steiber was around the next year as well.

It was the right move for both the team and the individual for Zain to go as a freshman.

 

[Dogwelder]

... If Zain had redshirted we would not have won in OK City, Hindsight is always 20 20 vision but saying they would have been better off is just speculation. No way to know what would have happened for sure.

Uh, I was responding to a claim that Cael chooses what’s best for the wrestler over what’s best for the team 100% of the time. So you are trying to help my rebuttal?

 

[Dogwelder]

Zain beat then 2x champ Steiber one month in. He was ready to go. Steiber was around the next year as well.

It was the right move for both the team and the individual for Zain to go as a freshman.

Nope. If the team did not need Zain’s points, Zain would have taken a redshirt that first year. And there is ready and there is READY. Remember the context: somebody said Cael favors individual over team 100% of the time

 

[El-Jefe]

Huh? A first redshirt year would clearly have been better for both Morgan and Zain, not just in hindsight but even at the time. ...

Perhaps true about Zain, but definitely not true about Morgan.

Ed and Q were moving up the following year, so Morgan would've sat for his RSFR year.

 

[dicemen99]

Nope. If the team did not need Zain’s points, Zain would have taken a redshirt that first year. And there is ready and there is READY. Remember the context: somebody said Cael favors individual over team 100% of the time

That's really too literal to even be worth an argument.

I disagree with your take that Zain would have been better off with a RS year. He was an all-timer 3x champ either way. He was READY. I could argue that wrestling that first year made his RS year all the more valuable to him when he took it.

 

[Dogwelder]

Perhaps true about Zain, but definitely not true about Morgan.

Ed and Q were moving up the following year, so Morgan would've sat for his RSFR year.

I would disagree about Morgan. My feeling is not possible to “prove”, but I think confidence is important, and I think for the number 1 overall recruit to be a true freshman and be undersized in weight and length at an upper weight is to give him two or two and a half disadvantages right off the bat. That I think would mess with his confidence. Some people would say that he is too good to need confidence, but I disagree. Even the elite need confidence and need to have it nurtured. But I respect your opinion.

 

[a_mshaffer]

all hindsight... any move could have had a different outcome... heck - even an injury could have been introduced if things were different...

 

[Dogwelder]

That's really too literal to even be worth an argument.

I disagree with your take that Zain would have been better off with a RS year. He was an all-timer 3x champ either way. He was READY. I could argue that wrestling that first year made his RS year all the more valuable to him when he took it.

My simple point is that he was “ready” before a redshirt year, and he was “READY” after. Your good and sophisticated point is that the redshirt year was great in part because it came one year “late”. That’s what good discussion is all about. Thanks!

I have a question, to which I do not know the answer. How many PSU true freshmen have had their redshirts pulled by Cael, and were any of the shirts pulled (especially for a blue-chip recruit) in a “comfortable” year in which we did not urgently anticipate needing their points at NCAAs?

 

[Dogwelder]

all hindsight... any move could have had a different outcome... heck - even an injury could have been introduced if things were different...

Yes. This is in part a hindsight, what-if, speculative discussion.

 

[Dogwelder]

One more thought about the Zain discussion. If Zain had had a redshirt year his first year, and somehow had an exhibition that year against Stieber and beat him, and I came on here posting that Zain actually was “ready” and that Cael should have pulled his shirt that year, how many of the same people would have come on to say I’m wrong and a redshirt that first year was best? #unconsciousstatusquobias

 

[Lyons212]

I know it's the offseason and this is a message board w/ anonymous accounts, but I feel like we're over thinking this. Dean wants somewhere else--he (maybe) decided that the right place is the Best Place. Cael was like, sure, all are welcome, and everyone has an equal chance to make the lineup. What else is there to worry about at this point? Rumor may not even be true.

One of the big "insiders" on 247 posted that Dean has been in State College for the last 2 weeks.

I have no problem with anyone Cael brings into the program (in Cael we trust). He is not doing his job if he is not constantly trying to improve the team. That means improving the guys on the team, recruiting high school kids and bringing in transfers. Obviously, all the guys on the team have to fit into the 9.9 scholarship puzzle.

Regarding bringing in Dean if true, for all we know there is an issue with Beard or Brooks. Injury or weight cut or moving up a weight class concerns that result in finding a talented upper weight a priority. If Dean does come here, for all we know he is walking on or taking book money.

I do know this, Iowa has all 10 starters back next year and can probably improve 184 with either Assad or Kennedy replacing the biter and scratcher. Probably also cannot count on Marinelli crapping the bed again. PSU had everyone back too until Berge announced his retirement. Somewhere PSU needs to find more points. Maybe the Brooks/Dean combination does that no matter the weight class. Maybe Dean pushes Beard to be better and he scores more points. I do know bringing Dean in does make the roster better, whether it results in more points at NCAA's, we will see.

 

[PSU Mike]

My simple point is that he was “ready” before a redshirt year, and he was “READY” after. Your good and sophisticated point is that the redshirt year was great in part because it came one year “late”. That’s what good discussion is all about. Thanks!

I have a question, to which I do not know the answer. How many PSU true freshmen have had their redshirts pulled by Cael, and were any of the shirts pulled (especially for a blue-chip recruit) in a “comfortable” year in which we did not urgently anticipate needing their points at NCAAs?

One could argue Aaron’s in 2020 if you believe Iowa were prohibitive favorites and we couldn’t catch them either way.

 

[McScoreley]

Guys - Cael has shown he knows exactly how to manage a lineup for a team purposes but even then, he won't have a 100% hit rate. Also, his standard for true freshman starting is pretty obvious at this point. If they can provide big time points in a close team race. (Normal year, Howard/Bartlett are shirted and maybe even a few more guys) Zain was the difference in 2014, Nick was the difference in 2018. AB was summoned when it looked like we would have Cassar, Shak, Berge and it would be a TIGHT team race with Iowa. RBY wasn't needed obviously but obviously you never know.

One thing to remember guys. 2012 was supposed to be a tight team race. We had some major overachievements from Nico in particularly (but Q and Dylan also) to blow it open. Morgan was #1 PFP in his class, it wasn't unreasonable to think he could have been a podium level guy. That was a decision for the team race.

 

[McScoreley]

It's been 2 weeks and 3 pages of posts, all bc of a post by Pat Mineo, lol.

It started with him and nobody has confirmed it but there is very heavy smoke now this is true.

 

[AndEEss]

It started with him and nobody has confirmed it but there is very heavy smoke now this is true.

I know DT and Dake are good friends (see: Dake running practice at M2), but I have to wonder if Dake being in SC was also related to the Deans being in SC.

 

[McScoreley]

I know DT and Dake are good friends (see: Dake running practice at M2), but I have to wonder if Dake being in SC was also related to the Deans being in SC.

So funny enough, Cenzo hit on this in Baschamania. Dake was here for DT's kids birthday party.

 

[jsn4388]

Except that Cael has made it clear that he’ll do what’s best for the wrestler over what’s best for the team 100% of the time. If AB wants to shirt, and has a decent enough reason, I’d bet my house Cael would be for it.

From all the evidence, I wouldn't subscribe to this thinking. Not saying one way or the other, but I would say ability to produce points is the major driving factor, e.g., team points and bonus points are Cael's hallmark and whoever can do that would mostly win the starting position.

 

[El-Jefe]

One of the big "insiders" on 247 posted that Dean has been in State College for the last 2 weeks.

Meh. Freestyle guys train away from home. Gwiz practices at NLWC for a month at a time. Akgul spent a month at Ohio State. Bajrang spent a month at Michigan. Tomasello trained at NJRTC until Bob Suriano found out.

2 weeks is plenty of time for Dean to announce the transfer if it were happening. Even if he still has classes remaining at Cornell -- Brucki announced his transfer well in advance.

 

[Dogwelder]

One could argue Aaron’s in 2020 if you believe Iowa were prohibitive favorites and we couldn’t catch them either way.

"Wash your typing fingers with soap!" - Cropduster

 

[Lyons212]

Meh. Freestyle guys train away from home. Gwiz practices at NLWC for a month at a time. Akgul spent a month at Ohio State. Bajrang spent a month at Michigan. Tomasello trained at NJRTC until Bob Suriano found out.

2 weeks is plenty of time for Dean to announce the transfer if it were happening. Even if he still has classes remaining at Cornell -- Brucki announced his transfer well in advance.

At this time Max Dean is not a freestyle guy, rumor has it he is a folkstyle free agent. Your right, nothing says Dean cannot train at NLWC and go somewhere else including back to Cornell.

 

[El-Jefe]

Everybody is a freestyle guy during the offseason ... except for the Greco guys.

 

[NothingMeaningful]

Meh. Freestyle guys train away from home. Gwiz practices at NLWC for a month at a time. Akgul spent a month at Ohio State. Bajrang spent a month at Michigan. Tomasello trained at NJRTC until Bob Suriano found out.

2 weeks is plenty of time for Dean to announce the transfer if it were happening. Even if he still has classes remaining at Cornell -- Brucki announced his transfer well in advance.

Dean did not enroll at Cornell this year, so not likely he has class work to which to attend.

Brucki announced a transfer that was irrelevant to his tenure at Princeton: he was going to be a graduate transfer.

 

[Gray52]

Okay... so my “100% of the time” should have been stated as “almost always.” However, I don’t think Cael makes decisions about a wrestler based on what’s best for the team. I haven’t seen an example yet that says “yeah, that decision was based on what will get the most points at nationals.”
Pulling Hall’s RS?
Letting Nick Nevills wrestle 2 weeks before B10’s?

 

[diggerpup]

Ahhhhhhhh ... the forum during the off-season.

Max Dean transfer ?
Wake me up when there is a press release.

It's been 2 weeks and 3 pages of posts, all bc of a post by Pat Mineo, lol.

 

[AndEEss]

AB said on the latest BASCHAMANIA podcast that he’s lifting, and implies that it’s new to him.

Bulking to 197 or getting stronger at 184?

I think he’d win NCAAs at either weight but I can see how it would help his FS (189lb) aspirations.

 

[Ambrowns]

Okay... so my “100% of the time” should have been stated as “almost always.” However, I don’t think Cael makes decisions about a wrestler based on what’s best for the team. I haven’t seen an example yet that says “yeah, that decision was based on what will get the most points at nationals.”
Pulling Hall’s RS?
Letting Nick Nevills wrestle 2 weeks before B10’s?

What about the year that Cael redshirted everyone who could so that they could score more points the following years? Seems to me that it was for the team and not for the individual wrestlers who redshirted.

 

[Sportfan2017]

What about the year that Cael redshirted everyone who could so that they could score more points the following years? Seems to me that it was for the team and not for the individual wrestlers who redshirted.

Yeah.....really hurt the wrestlers......pretty much ruined the careers of Nico, Zain, Nolf and Nickal

 

[Ambrowns]

Yeah.....really hurt the wrestlers......pretty much ruined the careers of Nico, Zain, Nolf and Nickal

Lol, not saying the wrestlers didn’t benefit. Just saying that Cael probably had just as much of a (future) team focus as individual wrestler focus. Each one of the guys was ready to go that year. Hard to say whether they would have been just as successful that year, but I have a hard time believing it wouldn’t have been close.

 

[Larryrise]

Remember that Cael actually IS the greatest coach in the modern version of the sport. If he is bringing someone in then I see zero reason how he needs to be questioned....unless of course he actually brings someone in, then it seems like whoever might lose a spot becomes the favorite all time wrestler of the message board fan base lol.
I'm opening up a big can of Cael knows best and if Max comes in then fantastic, and if not, also fantastic. I'm adding a side order of I don't really play favorites so if Michael wins the job then awesome, and if someone beats him out...equally awesome.

 

[Thenightking]

If you watched the NCAA's this year you would have noticed that AB was smaller than any opponent he was up against. My god he looked about 20 pounds smaller than Hidley in the finals! There is no way!! No way!! he goes 197!!! ever!!!

 

[AndEEss]

If you watched the NCAA's this year you would have noticed that AB was smaller than any opponent he was up against. My god he looked about 20 pounds smaller than Hidley in the finals! There is no way!! No way!! he goes 197!!! ever!!!

<Insert Bo Nickal vs Kolin Moore picture here>

Ive always thought that many PSU wrestlers cut less than their peers from other schools. I thought all of our finalists this year were smaller than their opponents. That said, it works. Turns out, being fully hydrated is good for optimal physical performance.

 

[Sportfan2017]

<Insert Bo Nickal vs Kolin Moore picture here>

Ive always thought that many PSU wrestlers cut less than their peers from other schools. I thought all of our finalists this year were smaller than their opponents. That said, it works. Turns out, being fully hydrated is good for optimal physical performance.

Insert the Bo Nickal vs Gabe Dean photo here. They called him "Noodle Arms" back then. Now they call him 3X NCAA Champ

 

[Raw Daddy]

Honestly Max hasn't looked great recently (even though it's free) and it's possible similar to Snyder, he thinks the best way out of a funk (though Snyder's definition of a funk is world bronze lol) is to learn from Cael and drill with elite talents PSU has in the room daily to recapture his peak again and maybe even hit a new level. Keep in mind when Max made the Finals, he almost lost to Cash Wilcke in Round 2 so he wasn't a PSU level hammer yet.

@smalls103 posted yesterday that Cael at PSU has a record of 43-6 in the Semis. I think Max sees that and watches how Cael's middle to upper weights wrestle and thinks I can be that.

43-6. My god.

 

[McScoreley]

43-6. My god.

Someone posted on twitter also under Willie's status that none of the losses were our guys getting upset (by seed)

 

[AndEEss]

Insert the Bo Nickal vs Gabe Dean photo here. They called him "Noodle Arms" back then. Now they call him 3X NCAA Champ

Yeah. During the OTTs, I made a comment suggesting that the 189lb Bo Nickal APPEARED to be significantly bigger than the Bo Nickal that won NCAAs at 197lbs against Moore. Every time I watch that match I think to myself, "Dear Lord. He must be giving up 10-15lbs to Moore. How are they in the same weight class?" And then he crushes him.

 

[jsn4388]

Okay... so my “100% of the time” should have been stated as “almost always.” However, I don’t think Cael makes decisions about a wrestler based on what’s best for the team. I haven’t seen an example yet that says “yeah, that decision was based on what will get the most points at nationals.”
Pulling Hall’s RS?
Letting Nick Nevills wrestle 2 weeks before B10’s?

Shakur Rasheed chosen over Anthony Cassar (mainly because of his craddling almost everyone for big bonus points) before the Big 10 and NCAA?

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Regarding bringing in Dean if true, for all we know there is an issue with Beard or Brooks....

Now you've gone and done it!!!!

I took a dozen hits for my post suggesting Beard. You get a two banger.

 

[Dogwelder]

Now you've gone and done it!!!!

I took a dozen hits for my post suggesting Beard. You get a two banger.

Mom always liked Lyons more than she liked you!

 

[82bordeaux]

Even the elite need confidence and need to have it nurtured.