Day 2 National Duals Results and Discussion

NoVa Lion

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This is not the Penn State way. He was an absolute stud recruit with a fantastic pedigree. I can guarantee you, Cael & Co. wants him squeaking out matches. They would have rather seen him lose tonight and take 2-3 more shots against a great opponent. Not taking a thing away from him, but this is not the attitude and never will be while these guys are running the show.
Maybe, but he weighed in at 143 so he is at a huge disadvantage weight/strength wise.
 

AndEEss

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This is not the Penn State way. He was an absolute stud recruit with a fantastic pedigree. I can guarantee you, Cael & Co. wants him squeaking out matches. They would have rather seen him lose tonight and take 2-3 more shots against a great opponent. Not taking a thing away from him, but this is not the attitude and never will be while these guys are running the show.

I remember a certain C. Starocci winning like this last year.

Actually, Starocci was even uglier. He had a lot of 0 takedown wins. At least BB is inside tripping dudes in OT.
 

Raw Daddy

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I remember a certain C. Starocci winning like this last year.

Actually, Starocci was even uglier. He had a lot of 0 takedown wins. At least BB is inside tripping dudes in OT.
I agree. I edited my post to clarify some points. These kids are all total studs, listen to Carter talk last year and he never had a doubt against an opponent. So now while his technical and conditioning has gotten better, he’s separated himself from the pack and absolutely dominating.

Not to beat a dead horse, but Carter won a lot of close matches last year because he rode opponents out. His top game is unreal, not because he didn’t finish shots necessarily.

Beau’s post match was different sounding.

I don’t want this to come across as the guy who has to find a negative in a wonderful display tonight, I just believe the staff would want Beau attempting more of those inside trips and trusting his finishes. Carter won last year in unbelievable fashion and guess what happened this year, he continued to climb. The same could be said about AB last year. Regardless of how close that Hidley match was, there wasn’t a guy in his league last year.

Listen to Zain on Wrestling Changed My Life podcast about his match with Stieber. Listen to VJ and Nolf on Baschmania talk about this team’s mindset. Literally listen to any words that come out of DT and Bo’s mouth. I just strongly believe there is not that much difference between Morgan Mcintosh and Zain Retherford other than a mental component and when I hear Beau focus on how good these guys are and all the trophies they won when he was growing up, that sounds different.
 
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CSauertiegPSU

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I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.
 

Junglekitty

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Maybe, but he weighed in at 143 so he is at a huge disadvantage weight/strength wise.
I believe they said he was certed at 43, weighed in at 47, which I’m assuming is pretty close if not right on his natural weight. So he’s still giving up a weight and strength.
 
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CSauertiegPSU

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I believe they said he was certed at 43, weighed in at which I’m assuming is pretty close if not right on his natural weight. So he’s still giving up a weight and strength.
Think I saw he weighed in at 147.4 but he had to bulk to get there. He’s wrestling guys who walk around anywhere from 152-160 and likely higher in the offseason
 

Raw Daddy

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I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.
To answer your question, yes at the collegiate level no where near these guys but relatively a high level. I think it’s incredibly safe to assume at this level none of us would expect bad shot taking as an offensive game plan. I would expect you to expect more knowledge about the sport coming from people who post on this board.
 

Raw Daddy

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I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.
He beat Jordan Conaway and Shelton Mack while in HS at the US Open. He’s medaled at the world championships. He won multiple prep championships. He was a top 10 PfP recruit. Not sure how he has that pedigree not being dominate.
I’m not arguing the weight thing and what he did tonight was terrific. My point in a different thread is around the mental side of it. That’s all. I’m not trying to diminish anything he did on the mat tonight. I think he’s going to be awesome. I think these young guys have a terrible shake right now because these weights have 5-6 year gaps between some of them and it makes the field even deeper and harder to navigate.
 

McScoreley

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BTW, Facundo is 6-1 this year with 3 majors and 2 pins (all at the Clarion Open.)

The loss was to Maryland's starter in TB-1 because he didn't know the new rideout rule and had no coaches in his corner.

He looked like a PSU wrestler in the wins -- he turned up the pace once he saw bonus points in reach, and he kept scoring after reaching a major. A lot to like there, just need to see it vs better opponents.
One correction, I know his match against Lawrence of Lehigh was recorded as a pin but he definitely didn't pin him. Think he was up like 4-2 or 5-2 and Lawrence got DQed for excessive clubbing.
 

Raw Daddy

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I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.
Listen, I get it you are probably like how can you have something negative to say when an undersized, young kid just beat the 5th ranked kid in the country. His interview after the match just sounds different from what I have heard from these top guys over the last 10 years.
 

SUPERTODD

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Listen, I get it you are probably like how can you have something negative to say when an undersized, young kid just beat the 5th ranked kid in the country. His interview after the match just sounds different from what I have heard from these top guys over the last 10 years.
I would say give him the benefit of the doubt and see if this changes his mentality and how he wrestles going forward. Beau had a great prep resume but at the collegiate level had yet to beat a ranked opponent. It is fine to be confident. Success is the ultimate confidence builder. Let’s see how his next match looks. My guess is he will come out noticeably more aggressively.
 

Flying_Tiger

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Bartlett is wrestling up a weight and simply can't be as aggressive because it's too easy to get trapped underneath. Think Nico Megaludis as a true freshman, undersized early on in his career so he had to wrestle a more conservative style. Got him to the NCAA finals. As Nico matured physically, became much more aggressive. Suspect we see a similar progression throughout Beau's career at 141 but for now he's got to wrestle a bit more reserved to be successful.
 
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BigFella235

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I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.

Mister, I’m gonna need you to take your big fancy college words and facts elsewhere. We only use pure speculation and grapevine rumors here
 

billrag

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Pretty exciting and I've said that PSU is even money or better at NCAAs since last year. I can be a homer to a small degree, but I'm not unrealistic either. I believe PSU has help coming at 118. If it doesn't happen and we "limp along" with Campbell or Shunk, I like them, they have guts and they wrestle hard.

I think Bartlett is just fine and he'll continue to improve with matches. He IS undersized and is almost sure to return to 141 next year, but I don't see it as an extreme handicap. If anything, his height/length is the issue more than his weight, but he'll be just fine and will score lots of points for us at nationals.

No idea what's going on at 157, but it will be fine and we'll get us a qualifier I think and whoever that will be will do his best to win every match for us. If not, we've won national titles before with less than 10.

I simply haven't seen Facundo enough to really know what his ceiling is THIS YEAR, but as much as I like Edsell's heart (and as much as I'd hate to wrestle him if I were a #10-15 ranked wrestler at 165 in any round at nationals), I have to think that Facundo might score more at nationals. 10 years ago I would have said, "shirt him", but not anymore. The way PSU recruits and some of the kids who end up as reserves for us really make me feel like the kids should get their 3 or 4 years in, wrestle early and move on with their lives (which is almost surely what most of them would prefer if it truly was up to them completely). It's largely because PSU has so much to offer and really is on top of the wrestling world right now, but as long as that continues, why not take advantage and put your best team on the mat, even if wrestling a true freshman only gives you a slight bump?

I think it's pretty clear that Iowa has some "issues" which make them less than a prohibitive favorite. They're still the favorite for sure at this point, but PSU has a habit of rising to the occasion and Iowa has a funny habit of occasionally tripping over their own feet on the big stage and there's no reason to ask a stupid question like "Does PSU have any chance at nationals?" in a year like this.
 

82bordeaux

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Maybe he should have just posted a GIF.
giphy.gif
 
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7brwnpsu

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Butler County
The spoken word does not always reveal what is in the heart.
Kung Fu said that in season 3, episode 7.

Maybe he should have just posted a GIF.

Stand, if you would have given Bordeaux a little more time, he was going to do a gif of young Kwai Chang Caine in a flash back with the Master.

You forced him to take a bad shot with Deadpool.
 

nerfstate

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He beat Jordan Conaway and Shelton Mack while in HS at the US Open. He’s medaled at the world championships. He won multiple prep championships. He was a top 10 PfP recruit. Not sure how he has that pedigree not being dominate.
I’m not arguing the weight thing and what he did tonight was terrific. My point in a different thread is around the mental side of it. That’s all. I’m not trying to diminish anything he did on the mat tonight. I think he’s going to be awesome. I think these young guys have a terrible shake right now because these weights have 5-6 year gaps between some of them and it makes the field even deeper and harder to navigate.

I posted this a while back--I still agree with myself, in case anyone was wondering....

To my eyes, Beau is a very strong guy. What he seems to lack at 149 that he didn’t at Jr Worlds, for instance, was the leverage to use that strength to set up his attacks. Much of his offense is “short offense,” that requires getting your opponent in a bad spot and then capitalizing. The super crisp Sasso takedown is something of an anomaly, from most of the wrestling I’ve seen Beau do. What I see him doing this year is use his strength and elite positioning to wear the bigger guys down. It reminds me a lot of the year McCutcheon went 197 for the team (before injury). Other PSU guys have done the same thing when small (Manville vs Myles comes to mind). Pull the head with collar ties, punish from front head, and plan on making your hay in the 3rd.

Can be effective. Although the margin for error is certainly very thin. I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect to see beau launching head inside singles and doubles from space very much this year. The risk to reward ratio is lacking.

All that doesn’t mean that he can’t improve in the offensive confidence department. Beau is more athletic than Cutch and Manville (that reversal last night was sweet). I think he will improve to a degree over the course of the season. how many points he’s able to score at NCAA‘s remains to be seen.
As far as his interview goes--he's a very cerebral guy. Remember what school he was originally rumored to be going to. He's clearly a tactician in a way that some of our other guys weren't. That's OK--he's still a great wrestler, and I believe our coaches recruited him for reasons beyond his accolades.... It's what we do.
 
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billrag

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We all should be so lucky to live as long as @billrag. My Dad often called his sons by the wrong names. Seems the same can be said of old weight classes.

I blame my cognitive mistakes on a recent bout with Lyme disease (no kidding), but my father (who had 7 sons) always called us by the wrong names and I admit that I often call my sons each other's name and I only have 2. ;)
 

NothingMeaningful

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He looked “rusty”, only got a major against Latona.
Unlike others (*cough*Spencer*cough), Vito hadn't wrestled a folkstyle match in 21 months prior to the Stanford dual.

Vito and LaMont are the only ones left at 125 with a 100% bonus rate.

In fact, other than those two, only Steveson and Parris are undefeated with 100% bonus rates at any weight. You can blame Cornell for taking Starocci and Dean off that list. :cool:
 

NothingMeaningful

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Out of curiosity, was either guy close to scoring offensively?
Not that I recall. No scrambling to speak of. Kinda odd. Fewest points by Lewis all year, but again Starocci had his lowest score against Foca, so he must be doing something right (other than losing, of course).
 

jsn4388

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I remember a certain C. Starocci winning like this last year.

Actually, Starocci was even uglier. He had a lot of 0 takedown wins. At least BB is inside tripping dudes in OT.
But Starocci showed his offensive prowess in his redshirt year. BB hasn't shown any of that. I am not down on BB, but I have to judge by the eye test so far and level out my expectation on him. That said, I am not saying that he can't win a NT ever.
 

TangSoo

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Beau is a Freshman, wrestling up a weight, who just beat the #5 kid in the country and people on here complaining that he isn’t wrestling like Jason Nolf the 2nd. Unbelievable.
He's probably a 133 lber at other schools. If people can't watch and appreciate the intensity he is bringing to matches, moving 149ers back constantly and gassing a lot of them. The strength and hurt he's going to drop on 141 lbers in the future, the will to win, the technical superiority, and more. If they can't appreciate that, I don't know what to say.
Seems like a lot of people go through this season with some kind of "live up to the minute, fantasyland (because it never plays out like chalk), NCAA tournament scoring tabulation". This renders them unable to appreciate the efforts of team members who aren't going to ring up 20+ points in March.
 

TangSoo

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But Starocci showed his offensive prowess in his redshirt year. BB hasn't shown any of that. I am not down on BB, but I have to judge by the eye test so far and level out my expectation on him. That said, I am not saying that he can't win a NT ever.
The kid has a will to win and moxy at the highest level. I'll say he wins multiple titles.
 

AndEEss

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I'm on board the BB = NCAA winner at 141 train. Might not be next year, but, also, the field really clears out at 141 after this year, too.

Looking at WrestleStat:

Eierman (SR*), Lee (SR*), Rivera (SR*), Carlson (SO), Willits (JR), Woods (SO), Red (SR*), Alirez (SO).

Not on the list but will be soon: Micic (SR****)

I think the strength and motor he's developing against significantly bigger opponents are going to help him beat the tar out of people next year.
 

District four

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I blame my cognitive mistakes on a recent bout with Lyme disease (no kidding), but my father (who had 7 sons) always called us by the wrong names and I admit that I often call my sons each other's name and I only have 2.

I blame my cognitive mistakes on a recent bout with Lyme disease (no kidding), but my father (who had 7 sons) always called us by the wrong names and I admit that I often call my sons each other's name and I only have 2. ;)
I call my daughter's by the wrong name and I only have two lol
 
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