Day 2 National Duals Results and Discussion

tikk10

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This is not the Penn State way. He was an absolute stud recruit with a fantastic pedigree. I can guarantee you, Cael & Co. does not want him squeaking out matches. They would much rather see him lose tonight and take 2-3 more shots against a great opponent. Not taking a thing away from him, but this is not the attitude and never will be while these guys are running the show for what you are projecting. If you listen to Nolf about the kids in the room right now, he talks about a change in mentality needed. That mentality is coming with confidence boosting wins like tonight, but the attitude of past groups was I know I can compete with Yianni, I’m grateful for the opportunity to show what I can do against him and I will go back in the room and work on things. Beau did a great interview, but that’s not what he projected tonight. Again this kid will be wonderful and great things to come, but it’s amazing the difference of Zain/Nolf mentality as young wrestlers to Beau.
I think you're placing unrealistic expectations about Bartlett for his having not yet morphed into Jason Nolf, and wrongly assuming that the coaches share those unrealistic expectations. Take and enjoy Bartlett for who he is, which is an excellent wrestler and thoughtful kid who is wrestling up a class at a weight where those pounds really make a difference. He had his best win a Penn State singlet last night, knocking off an AA who had looked fantastic the day before, and only the night after Beau had lost to a kid in the generational talent tier.

One of the things about this coaching staff that I admire most is their ability to let each wrestler find themselves and coach that wrestler, instead of making the wrestler conform to a model. If Beau doesn't sound like Zain in an interview that's just because he's not Zain and the coaching staff is giving him the room to become the best he can be, not forcing him to be what Zain was.
 

billrag

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Jan 25, 2011
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Has anyone other than Sasso really rode him all that much? Honest question. My brain is a vacuum on the subject.
I was wondering the same thing. Working out from bottom against the better wrestlers is a concern for ANY underclassman (and some upperclassmen), but I think Beau is skilled and active enough that not many will work him over from the top position. It's certainly worth his and the coaches' consideration obviously, but I'm not sure it's going to be an ongoing issue either.
 

jack66

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I mean, that’s just not what Bartlett is or was in high school. He’ll hopefully get there, but right now he’s a kid with 12 or so college matches all up a weight who’s finding ways to win.

As for taking shots, I’m not sure if you wrestled (I don’t mean that pejoratively) but just taking shots to take shots without any setup is just bad practice and will be punished significantly at this level. Against bigger guys, Beau is struggling to get to his ties and his setups so he’s being judicious with his shots. Just shooting to say you shot more does nothing for progression.

Point taken, but what will lead to the best version of BB by the middle of March?

Like Casey said the other day, if the guys are aggressive and trying to score points, the coaches can then correct mistakes or improve their technique. If they are not willing to take chances, the coaches have less to work on for improvement.

I understand that size is a problem, but when you're as athletic as Bartlett sometimes just creating action can lead to scoring opportunities.
 

Junglekitty

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Feb 15, 2018
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Has anyone other than Sasso really rode him all that much? Honest question. My brain is a vacuum on the subject.
Not that I can recall.

Here's the skinny, BB is a great wrestler. I don't think Raw meant it to come off the way we all took it. BB will never be Jason Nolf. There will never be another Jason Nolf, Zain, Taylor, Ruth, Nico, etc. I personally liked watching and listening to all those guys for what they each brought to the table. Ya never knew what Nolf was going to throw at his opponent, Zain punishing people on top, Taylor's ankle pick, the Ruth cradle, Nico's flexibility and pace, Nickal's throws. If Beau goes the rest of his college career winning matches like the one last night, I'm good with it. I don't think that will be the case, but in either event, you can't tell me that match wasn't exciting. Not a lot of scoring, but there was action. With all due respect to Verk, Beau is not him. Beau has a good array of attacks. But for reasons previously mentioned by other posters, we aren't getting to see them, and probably won't see them this year. Good things take time, Rome wasn't built in a day, have patience. Pick your quote, they all apply. This years Beau is not what I believe next years Beau is going to be. Enjoy what he's bringing to the table this year. Remember, he scored 0 points last year for us at the tournament. I'll take the over.
 

STAND with PRIDE

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Sep 9, 2018
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I blame my cognitive mistakes on a recent bout with Lyme disease (no kidding), but my father (who had 7 sons) always called us by the wrong names and I admit that I often call my sons each other's name and I only have 2. ;)
Should have just named them all Ed.
 

johnstownsteel

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Aug 2, 2013
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Johnstown Pa
I was wondering the same thing. Working out from bottom against the better wrestlers is a concern for ANY underclassman (and some upperclassmen), but I think Beau is skilled and active enough that not many will work him over from the top position. It's certainly worth his and the coaches' consideration obviously, but I'm not sure it's going to be an ongoing issue either.
Yes, I'm always concerned when our young wrestlers are on bottom especially one that is undersized. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought a few guys put nice rides on Beau but fortunately for him hes not bad on top so ride time hasn't become a big issue for him. So, until he opens up his offense and isnt wrestling as many close bouts, I'll still be a bit nervous when he's on bottom.
 
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El-Jefe

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Not that I can recall.

Here's the skinny, BB is a great wrestler. I don't think Raw meant it to come off the way we all took it. BB will never be Jason Nolf. There will never be another Jason Nolf, Zain, Taylor, Ruth, Nico, etc. I personally liked watching and listening to all those guys for what they each brought to the table. Ya never knew what Nolf was going to throw at his opponent, Zain punishing people on top, Taylor's ankle pick, the Ruth cradle, Nico's flexibility and pace, Nickal's throws. If Beau goes the rest of his college career winning matches like the one last night, I'm good with it. I don't think that will be the case, but in either event, you can't tell me that match wasn't exciting. Not a lot of scoring, but there was action. With all due respect to Verk, Beau is not him. Beau has a good array of attacks. But for reasons previously mentioned by other posters, we aren't getting to see them, and probably won't see them this year. Good things take time, Rome wasn't built in a day, have patience. Pick your quote, they all apply. This years Beau is not what I believe next years Beau is going to be. Enjoy what he's bringing to the table this year. Remember, he scored 0 points last year for us at the tournament. I'll take the over.
Freshman Zain didn't shoot nearly as much as the monster everyone remembers.

Plus his last college loss was because he took a bad shot against Port in SV.

Bartlett's comparables are RBY and Berge -- short offense/counter wrestlers. He's on track. People seriously need to chill.
 

Junglekitty

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Freshman Zain didn't shoot nearly as much as the monster everyone remembers.

Plus his last college loss was because he took a bad shot against Port in SV.

Bartlett's comparables are RBY and Berge -- short offense/counter wrestlers. He's on track. People seriously need to chill.
I completely agree. Do you, or anyone have the Beau interview everyone is talking about. I have not seen it.
 

CSauertiegPSU

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Freshman Zain didn't shoot nearly as much as the monster everyone remembers.

Plus his last college loss was because he took a bad shot against Port in SV.

Bartlett's comparables are RBY and Berge -- short offense/counter wrestlers. He's on track. People seriously need to chill.
The last part is what stands out to me. I think everyone saw the high recruiting rankings and accolades and assumed he was this dynamo from neutral in HS and that just wasn’t the case. Not that he has no offense, but just that it was a lot of basics and a pretty good top game that won him a ton of matches. He’s just never gonna be the guy to rack up points in bunches in his feet unless he’s going feet to back.
 

a_mshaffer

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The last part is what stands out to me. I think everyone saw the high recruiting rankings and accolades and assumed he was this dynamo from neutral in HS and that just wasn’t the case. Not that he has no offense, but just that it was a lot of basics and a pretty good top game that won him a ton of matches. He’s just never gonna be the guy to rack up points in bunches in his feet unless he’s going feet to back.
Don't know about that... wrestling up changes a lot. BB is very technically sound and because of that he is going to be special (when combined with his other traits)
 

CSauertiegPSU

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Don't know about that... wrestling up changes a lot. BB is very technically sound and because of that he is going to be special (when combined with his other traits)
Yeah, I probably could’ve worded that better. He can score, I don’t think he’s ever going to be Jason Nolf or David Taylor on his feet.
 

nerfstate

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yeah, all you need to do is watch some of his matches at Jr. Worlds just a few months ago. When sized well, Beau can horse guys around and get to his attacks pretty well.
 

mcpat

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I think we need to be careful with our expectations for freshman. Nolf, Nickal, Taylor, Ruth, Joseph, etc. all redshirted. BB had a year where he couldn’t even practice for much of it and now has about as many matches as someone would have had on their redshirt season. He just beat #5 for crying out loud! Even Zain during his true freshman season was beating ranked guys 2-0 and 4-2.
 

mcpat

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Pretty exciting and I've said that PSU is even money or better at NCAAs since last year. I can be a homer to a small degree, but I'm not unrealistic either. I believe PSU has help coming at 118. If it doesn't happen and we "limp along" with Campbell or Shunk, I like them, they have guts and they wrestle hard.

I think Bartlett is just fine and he'll continue to improve with matches. He IS undersized and is almost sure to return to 141 next year, but I don't see it as an extreme handicap. If anything, his height/length is the issue more than his weight, but he'll be just fine and will score lots of points for us at nationals.

No idea what's going on at 157, but it will be fine and we'll get us a qualifier I think and whoever that will be will do his best to win every match for us. If not, we've won national titles before with less than 10.

I simply haven't seen Facundo enough to really know what his ceiling is THIS YEAR, but as much as I like Edsell's heart (and as much as I'd hate to wrestle him if I were a #10-15 ranked wrestler at 165 in any round at nationals), I have to think that Facundo might score more at nationals. 10 years ago I would have said, "shirt him", but not anymore. The way PSU recruits and some of the kids who end up as reserves for us really make me feel like the kids should get their 3 or 4 years in, wrestle early and move on with their lives (which is almost surely what most of them would prefer if it truly was up to them completely). It's largely because PSU has so much to offer and really is on top of the wrestling world right now, but as long as that continues, why not take advantage and put your best team on the mat, even if wrestling a true freshman only gives you a slight bump?

I think it's pretty clear that Iowa has some "issues" which make them less than a prohibitive favorite. They're still the favorite for sure at this point, but PSU has a habit of rising to the occasion and Iowa has a funny habit of occasionally tripping over their own feet on the big stage and there's no reason to ask a stupid question like "Does PSU have any chance at nationals?" in a year like this.
You exceeded the word limit.

(me trying to be funny)
 
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Raw Daddy

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I’m chilling.
Freshman Zain didn't shoot nearly as much as the monster everyone remembers.

Plus his last college loss was because he took a bad shot against Port in SV.

Bartlett's comparables are RBY and Berge -- short offense/counter wrestlers. He's on track. People seriously need to chill.
I am reading too many: "I don't want to say anything negative about Beau"...but.......I will anyway posts. I don't want to say anything negative about these posters....but........@#$& a $%@# you %$&$#@#$$@# #$%@#&%#@........:)
I feel better now :)
$&@& $&@

Merry Christmas
 

Lyons212

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I blame my cognitive mistakes on a recent bout with Lyme disease (no kidding), but my father (who had 7 sons) always called us by the wrong names and I admit that I often call my sons each other's name and I only have 2. ;)
I call my son the wrong name and I only have one.

Growing up until about the age of 10 I thought my name was “Jesus Christ” and my brother was “Goddamit”. The only Bill Cosby spoof.
 
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McScoreley

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Other than his match vs Yianni (where he was expected to be overmatched), the only match Beau lost this year was when he uncharacteristically got sloppy twice. Giving up an end of period reversal and then just holding position on the escape thinking Rivera would give him the 1 was not Bartlett like. The Bryant loss doesn't look remotely bad right now either.

Every opponent Beau has wrestled this year besides the Sacred Heart kid has been a NQ level guy (with Parco being an AA level guy and obviously Yianni is Yianni) and Beau has been winning, showing high IQ and a strong gas tank. Kid is pretty battle tested already.
 

crockster

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Other than his match vs Yianni (where he was expected to be overmatched), the only match Beau lost this year was when he uncharacteristically got sloppy twice. Giving up an end of period reversal and then just holding position on the escape thinking Rivera would give him the 1 was not Bartlett like. The Bryant loss doesn't look remotely bad right now either.

Every opponent Beau has wrestled this year besides the Sacred Heart kid has been a NQ level guy (with Parco being an AA level guy and obviously Yianni is Yianni) and Beau has been winning, showing high IQ and a strong gas tank. Kid is pretty battle tested already.
agreed. Beau has probably had the overall toughest schedule of any of the PS wrestlers so far and has done well. Impressive showing so far.
 
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nitlion6

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Watched Carter a good deal in high school. When he gets pissed, it is a completely different Carter. Sometimes it borders on giving up a point for unnecessary roughness. He gets super physical, picks up his pace, and is relentless everywhere. The problem with coming out like that is gas tank. Usually when guys go out all pisssed off, at some point you get the adrenaline dump, and your wind is gone. However, if Cael or Casey could punch Carter about half way through every match, he would be my number one pick to win nationals.


You are correct. However, there's two things that go against Facundo wrestling this year. 1. Edsell is not wrestling terrible. He's been in every match he's wrestled, and if you can keep matches close, you have a shot. I know that goes against the PSU way of scoring points, but it is what it is. 2. 165 is incredibly deep this year. I myself would not want to burn Facundo's redshirt for the chance he'll score more points. I don't believe he's wrestled at all this year so that may be the coaches thoughts as well. Rumors are he'll be at the scuffle. If he goes out there and wins it, then they'll have a serious conversation. But Casey said as of now, the plan is to redshirt him

Remember, Cael isn't just thinking of what's best for individuals and the team this year. He needs to be, and is, thinking years down the road.

I think Cael mentioned at one time that the only way they'll wrestle someone as a true freshman is out of necessity, or they have a chance to win nationals. I don't think either of those are the case for Facundo.
Seeing the development steps Carter has taken, and assuming Suriano at 125 Carter behind Steveson is my most favorite to repeat.

Assuming 2 shirt Nicki @125
1. Steveson
2. Starocci
3. Brooks
4. Carr
5. S Lee
6. RBY
7. N Lee
8. Fast Car
9. Griffith
10. O'Connor
 

nitlion6

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Agreed. I don't understand the criticism of BB.
U don't understand. Really?
Beau is a second year PSU stud and he isn't scoring 20 points a match and he hasn't knocked off 3 national champs already. Christ, he just barely beat the 4th/5th ranked kid in the country and needed OT to even get that done.
Then, OMFG, in his post match interview where he sounded sure of his plan, certain of his abilities and vastly determined he didn't interview like DT, Jason or Bo.

Isn't the need for multiple criticisms obvious?
 

NothingMeaningful

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Dec 21, 2018
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U don't understand. Really?
Beau is a second year PSU stud and he isn't scoring 20 points a match and he hasn't knocked off 3 national champs already. Christ, he just barely beat the 4th/5th ranked kid in the country and needed OT to even get that done.
Then, OMFG, in his post match interview where he sounded sure of his plan, certain of his abilities and vastly determined he didn't interview like DT, Jason or Bo.

Isn't the need for multiple criticisms obvious?
Sorry, I'm pretty new here. Lots to learn.
 

nitlion6

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Sorry, I'm pretty new here. Lots to learn.
We, as a message board, do ridiculous fairly often. Just wait until we are only ahead by 50 points after the semi-final round of nationals. Every single failure to succeed possibility will be proposed and fretted over, and by golly all those who failed to secure an additional half team point will be scolded.
 
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Rhino80

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We, as a message board, do ridiculous fairly often. Just wait until we are only ahead by 50 points after the semi-final round of nationals. Every single failure to succeed possibility will be proposed and fretted over, and by golly all those who failed to secure an additional half team point will be scolded.

It is pretty obvious many posters on all of these boards didnt wrestle pas JH let alone at a high level. It is extremely hard at the D1 level to seperate against good competition. 90% of D1 wrestlers are defensive in nature looking to block off and capitalize off of someone's attack. There are a handful of truly elite offensive wrestler in the history off college wrestling. It just so happens that we have had some of the best on the same team over the past decade. BB will be fine. He will never be DT. I think he'll win a title being BB though.
 

Raw Daddy

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Not that I can recall.

Here's the skinny, BB is a great wrestler. I don't think Raw meant it to come off the way we all took it. BB will never be Jason Nolf. There will never be another Jason Nolf, Zain, Taylor, Ruth, Nico, etc. I personally liked watching and listening to all those guys for what they each brought to the table. Ya never knew what Nolf was going to throw at his opponent, Zain punishing people on top, Taylor's ankle pick, the Ruth cradle, Nico's flexibility and pace, Nickal's throws. If Beau goes the rest of his college career winning matches like the one last night, I'm good with it. I don't think that will be the case, but in either event, you can't tell me that match wasn't exciting. Not a lot of scoring, but there was action. With all due respect to Verk, Beau is not him. Beau has a good array of attacks. But for reasons previously mentioned by other posters, we aren't getting to see them, and probably won't see them this year. Good things take time, Rome wasn't built in a day, have patience. Pick your quote, they all apply. This years Beau is not what I believe next years Beau is going to be. Enjoy what he's bringing to the table this year. Remember, he scored 0 points last year for us at the tournament. I'll take the over.
Exactly, I believe he will win a National championship someday. I love his effort on the mat. He seems like another wonderful person. I personally believe we are at the beginning of another cluster of team championships and he’s going to be right in the middle of it.
 

nitlion6

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It is pretty obvious many posters on all of these boards didnt wrestle pas JH let alone at a high level. It is extremely hard at the D1 level to seperate against good competition. 90% of D1 wrestlers are defensive in nature looking to block off and capitalize off of someone's attack. There are a handful of truly elite offensive wrestler in the history off college wrestling. It just so happens that we have had some of the best on the same team over the past decade. BB will be fine. He will never be DT. I think he'll win a title being BB though.
Yep. Might win a couple. Probably AA multiple times, maybe hopefully 4.
Frank the tank was pretty damn good, 4 time AA, 2 time finalist, 1 championship and an Olympian.
Nowadays, except for his senior year, based on what DT, Eddie, Jason, Zain or Bo accomplished the board would insistently whine about Frank.
 

Petch

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Yeah, I probably could’ve worded that better. He can score, I don’t think he’s ever going to be Jason Nolf or David Taylor on his feet.
He reminds me more of a young Cenzo. Very, very positionally sound, strong hips, great leverage, and can hit you with a nasty inside trip. When he gets more confidence, he will be a monster. Even though he is a bit undersized, he is quite strong. That was demonstrated in OT the other night.
 
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mcpat

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David Taylor went 21-2 on redshirt.
Ed Ruth went 14-3 on redshirt.
Bo Nickal went 13-2 on redshirt.
Jason Nolf went 15-1 on redshirt.

BB is 14-5 in his young, no redshirt, career thus far. He hasn’t wrestled unattached in open tournaments against backups from unranked non-Big 10 teams. His 9th match was in the Big Ten Tournament.

I think some folks have lost their minds over this young stud wrestler that just beat a returning AA.
 

jsn4388

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He reminds me more of a young Cenzo. Very, very positionally sound, strong hips, great leverage, and can hit you with a nasty inside trip. When he gets more confidence, he will be a monster. Even though he is a bit undersized, he is quite strong. That was demonstrated in OT the other night.
OK, OK... you all have convinced me. BB will win at least 4 national titles. Offensively, he might not be a Nolf or Nickal or even any indication of being a dominant wrestler, but darn it he's gonna win at least 4 nationals titles. You'll see. I am all pumped up now! Just kidding guys. Not really, but I will reserve judgement until he goes to 41 next year.

Go Penn State. :)
 
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