Day 2 National Duals Results and Discussion

backdrft76

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Listed times are CENTRAL time.

Tuesday, December 21

1:00 p.m.: 5th/6th place matches

3:00 p.m.: 3rd/4th place matches

5:00 p.m.: Iowa vs. NC State

7:00 p.m.: Arizona State vs. Penn State


@dmm53 made the following pertinent post in the Day 1 thread:

Intermat's ranking of ASU wrestlers, which is ranked #3 as a tournament team:

125 - 3

133 - 14

141 -15

149 - 5

157 - 3

165 -6

174 -unranked

184 - unranked

197 - 8

285 - 3

On paper, this should be a very close dual. ASU is favored at 5 weights. And there is a danger of getting bonus-ed at 4 of them. Bartlett needs to keep it close. And our 125 guy has to avoid getting pinned or tech-ed. At the same time, we need bonus points at 174, 184, and hopefully 133 and/or 141.

Keep in mind: Arizona State snapped Penn State's 60 match winning streak in 2019. They won 19-18. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

 
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nerfstate

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Going to need RBY and Lee to cut people after 1:30 of riding time. Catch and release. Carter and AB, same.

Our guys score back points in neutral/scramble situations. The only guy who regularly turns people on top is Dean.
As a general rule, maybe--but I think RBY and maybe Nick will have their hands full tonight. McGee beat Myers (RBY's tough Semi last year) last night. Vasquez is more of a question mark, but he's a top recruit. We're going to give up big bonus at 125 & 157 I'm afraid. Carter and AB are gonna have to try and get it back.
 
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Ian

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I’m expecting wins at 133, 141, 174, 184, 197, and 285.... the other 4 must keep it close and no bonus pts. So maybe 20-12 Nits.
 

crockster

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I’m expecting wins at 133, 141, 174, 184, 197, and 285.... the other 4 must keep it close and no bonus pts. So maybe 20-12 Nits.
I think it is a toss up at 285. Possible PS bonus at 141,174 and 184. Possible ASU bonus at 125 and maybe 157. 165 could be interesting if Valencia fads again.
 

PSUAllTheWay

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Edsell has to come out and pressure, pressure, pressure. Valencia will fade if he's pushed. Edsell waited too long against Cornell to turn it up.
 
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AndEEss

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I know they are likely recovering from or maybe even in the middle of a hard training cycle, but most of our guys have VERY good motors. Nick, Roman, Carter, AB, and especially Dean. Hell, BB looks great compared to most of his opponents, too.

As we've learned watching DT in recent years, you can straight up melt people if you keep the pressure up. Guys like Valencia and Vasquez, with suspect gas tanks, might be opportunities to either not lose by much or win by a lot, respectively, if the effort is there.
 

Zjocko

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I think it is a toss up at 285. Possible PS bonus at 141,174 and 184. Possible ASU bonus at 125 and maybe 157. 165 could be interesting if Valencia fads again.
For now, Shultz has to be favored at 285 based on last year's results. He's a chunk but he's good. I think it's a huge match for Kerk to be able to show the difference from last year to this year. This will be Greg's first big test and I look forward to seeing it. Gotta use that quickness!
 

js8793

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Well Cael has two moves , get hildabrandt ready to roll and pull facundo's red shirt. Last night the hammers were 12-0 and 125, 157, and 165 were 0-6. 157 we be a dark hole ,unless someone steps up.
hildebrandt obv a no brained but if i’m cael, facundo needs a big scuffle to convince me to pull him. 165 is deep so unless he’s ready to possible r12 opponents like kharchla, marinelli, wittlake, wentzel, valencia, etc… he’s not likely to score many points anyway.
 

Junglekitty

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Quick prediction:

125 - Courtney doesn't put up a ton of points. From what I've seen, he's only been in the double digits twice. For the team purpose, I think he really gets after it. But I don't think he gets more than a major. 4-0 ASU

133 - McGee took a bad loss earlier in the year but just took out Myers so he's riding a confidence wave. I think he's athletic enough to keep RBY to a decision. 4-3 ASU

141 - Vasquez I believe was a 4xer in California? He's athletic and I think could give Lee a few issues early. The problem with Vasquez is his gas tank, and that's the worst thing to have an issue with wrestling Lee. Lee pushes for 7 straight minutes knowing this, gets a few stall calls and the major. 7-4 PSU

149 - Parco has a few good wins, and his losses to top competition were pretty close. Today is BB's day. His positioning and gas tank make the difference. 10-4 PSU

157 - I have absolutely no idea who we see here. Joe had a chance last night to cement starting tonight, and that didn't happen. If I had to guess, I think we see Negron. Teemer went to OT yesterday against Brady VT. While I don't think its that close, I don't think Negron gives up bonus either. 10-7 PSU

165 - Valencia showed against VT that his gas tank isn't full. We know Edsell will wrestle hard for 7 minutes. I don't think he has quite enough to beat Valencia, but if he keeps hands on him, and doesn't let Valencia tee off his shots, Edsell keeps it to a decision. 10-10

174 - I would not want to be Rochford today. I think Starocci comes out wanting to prove that yesterdays match shouldn't have been that close. With Rochford giving up a ton of back points to Lewis, and with how good Starocci is on top, I'm saying he gets the fall. 16-10 PSU

184 - My guess is Brooks comes out firing. Not sure if he gets enough for the tech, but it'll be close, I'll be reserved, and only give him the major. 20-10 PSU

197 - Norfleet has improved a lot during his college career. I just think Dean's mat game is the deciding factor. 23-10

285 - The grand finale. Kerk and Schultz will be a great ending to this dual. There's positives and negatives wrestling Schultz. The negative side is, he makes the match very uncomfortable. There aren't a lot of guys that get that greco feel very often. He'll dig and dig for his hooks and push guys around the mat. The positive, Kerk has already felt it. Not only does Kerk know what to expect, I think he's a tad healthier this time around. 26-10

We Are!
 

AndEEss

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I wouldn't mind seeing Starocci, Lee or Brooks stall their opponent out of the match.

Aaron was getting pretty mad at the ref during the Loew match. You could see him complaining to Casey during injury time, and Casey trying to calm him down. Loew was just backing out of bounds, every time. I'd like to see that kind of pressure from neutral again tonight.
 
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McScoreley

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Kind of reminds me of the time Zain was on top against Micah in the Big Ten finals and raised his hands to the refs basically like "He's not wrestling"
 

KCLion

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I wouldn't mind seeing Starocci, Lee or Brooks stall their opponent out of the match.

Aaron was getting pretty mad at the ref during the Loew match. You could see him complaining to Casey during injury time, and Casey trying to calm him down. Loew was just backing out of bounds, every time. I'd like to see that kind of pressure from neutral again tonight.
Loew copying Hidlay strategy to keep it close by constantly backing to the edge??
 
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Vasquez looks really good early, but he faded badly both matches. He is slick and has good technique, so maybe he can get an early TD on Lee. Even if he does though Lee will win comfortably as his pace will make it an ugly 3rd period for Vasquez.
I’ve watched quite a bit of Vasquez when he was in HS. Hawks courted him a bit, personally I don’t think he’s ready for the pace Nick Lee brings to the table. Maybe Jessie presents himself well in the first and keeps it close, but he’s not yet gone to war with someone that puts the consistent pressure that Lee does. Bonus likely IMHO.
 
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AndEEss

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Loew copying Hidlay strategy to keep it close by constantly backing to the edge??
It's hard to score if you plant yourself 6" outside the circle.

Also: Josh Edmond and Manzona Bryant are trying to kill each other out there. Not in a mean spirited way, but these two are just bombing each other. Left and right. Often with no points because someone rolls through or it's OOB.
 

dmm53

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Foca just lost another close one to a second national champ (M. Lewis). I think he had a brain fart in OT and chose top first (thinking he could chose bottom after that). Lewis escaped quickly both times to win 3-1. So much for an Ivy League education. Guess he was in the Poison Ivy League this weekend. Unable to do anything from bottom with CStarr and then twice being on top in OT ... by mistake I think.
 

backdrft76

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Foca just lost another close one to a second national champ (M. Lewis). I think he had a brain fart in OT and chose top first (thinking he could chose bottom after that). Lewis escaped quickly both times to win 3-1. So much for an Ivy League education. Guess he was in the Poison Ivy League this weekend. Unable to do anything from bottom with CStarr and then twice being on top in OT ... by mistake I think.
 

mcpat

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157 - I have absolutely no idea who we see here. Joe had a chance last night to cement starting tonight, and that didn't happen. If I had to guess, I think we see Negron. Teemer went to OT yesterday against Brady VT. While I don't think its that close, I don't think Negron gives up bonus either. 10-7 PSU
I think I’ve seen the best wrestling from Negron at 157 and I’d like to see him get some more chances.
 
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McScoreley

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My guess is Barraclough is still the guy and will get the shot against Teemer today (which was always the biggest opponent of the weekend)
 

johnstownsteel

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Quick prediction:

125 - Courtney doesn't put up a ton of points. From what I've seen, he's only been in the double digits twice. For the team purpose, I think he really gets after it. But I don't think he gets more than a major. 4-0 ASU

133 - McGee took a bad loss earlier in the year but just took out Myers so he's riding a confidence wave. I think he's athletic enough to keep RBY to a decision. 4-3 ASU

141 - Vasquez I believe was a 4xer in California? He's athletic and I think could give Lee a few issues early. The problem with Vasquez is his gas tank, and that's the worst thing to have an issue with wrestling Lee. Lee pushes for 7 straight minutes knowing this, gets a few stall calls and the major. 7-4 PSU

149 - Parco has a few good wins, and his losses to top competition were pretty close. Today is BB's day. His positioning and gas tank make the difference. 10-4 PSU

157 - I have absolutely no idea who we see here. Joe had a chance last night to cement starting tonight, and that didn't happen. If I had to guess, I think we see Negron. Teemer went to OT yesterday against Brady VT. While I don't think its that close, I don't think Negron gives up bonus either. 10-7 PSU

165 - Valencia showed against VT that his gas tank isn't full. We know Edsell will wrestle hard for 7 minutes. I don't think he has quite enough to beat Valencia, but if he keeps hands on him, and doesn't let Valencia tee off his shots, Edsell keeps it to a decision. 10-10

174 - I would not want to be Rochford today. I think Starocci comes out wanting to prove that yesterdays match shouldn't have been that close. With Rochford giving up a ton of back points to Lewis, and with how good Starocci is on top, I'm saying he gets the fall. 16-10 PSU

184 - My guess is Brooks comes out firing. Not sure if he gets enough for the tech, but it'll be close, I'll be reserved, and only give him the major. 20-10 PSU

197 - Norfleet has improved a lot during his college career. I just think Dean's mat game is the deciding factor. 23-10

285 - The grand finale. Kerk and Schultz will be a great ending to this dual. There's positives and negatives wrestling Schultz. The negative side is, he makes the match very uncomfortable. There aren't a lot of guys that get that greco feel very often. He'll dig and dig for his hooks and push guys around the mat. The positive, Kerk has already felt it. Not only does Kerk know what to expect, I think he's a tad healthier this time around. 26-10

We Are!
According to my KYPSUW, I have 21-16 PSU if the guys I think wrestle actually wrestle. I do like your result better.
 

McScoreley

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I wonder if Joe feels he needs to get one of those low percentage double over throw to a pin to win back the coaches' trust. Almost like he's determined to prove to the coaches it works after he was told to stop doing it lol.
 
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js8793

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He looked “rusty”, only got a major against Latona.
latona has been a mess this year. way too big for 125. don't see returning aa's start the year 4-6 very often. he needs his weight to stabilize. myers coming back really messed up their timeline.
 

mcpat

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My guess is Barraclough is still the guy and will get the shot against Teemer today (which was always the biggest opponent of the weekend)
Interesting. You may be right.

Even though Negron lost, he wrestled 7 mins, initiated action, etc. I really thought he was going to get points with the cradle in the second. I don’t feel like I’ve seen the same level of action from the others. Honestly, I don’t think it’s really been that close.
 

liex26

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Foca just lost another close one to a second national champ (M. Lewis). I think he had a brain fart in OT and chose top first (thinking he could chose bottom after that). Lewis escaped quickly both times to win 3-1. So much for an Ivy League education. Guess he was in the Poison Ivy League this weekend. Unable to do anything from bottom with CStarr and then twice being on top in OT ... by mistake I think.
I just got home and didn't see the Lewis match. I would guess though that it has more to do with him getting off bottom rather than him making mistakes. Maybe he thought he was good enough to get riding time and force OT.
Out of curiosity, was either guy close to scoring offensively?
 

McScoreley

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Interesting. You may be right.

Even though Negron lost, he wrestled 7 mins, initiated action, etc. I really thought he was going to get points with the cradle in the second. I don’t feel like I’ve seen the same level of action from the others. Honestly, I don’t think it’s really been that close.
Negron is a fighter for sure. I still think Joe has the highest ceiling at 157, he's by far the most proven at the college level. Part of me thinks he'd thrive at a school like Purdue where he isn't living up to his older brother's expectations and he has no worries about team races on his mind. I doubt he's uncoachable, he was raised by a military family and all anecdotal evidence is he's a very hard worker who wants to be good. But he seems to forget everything when he's wrestling and I sometimes wonder if it's the pressure of it all hitting him in a match.
 
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mcpat

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Negron is a fighter for sure. I still think Joe has the highest ceiling at 157, he's by far the most proven at the college level. Part of me thinks he'd thrive at a school like Purdue where he isn't living up to his older brother's expectations and he has no worries about team races on his mind. I doubt he's uncoachable, he was raised by a military family and all anecdotal evidence is he's a very hard worker who wants to be good. But he seems to forget everything when he's wrestling and I sometimes wonder if it's the pressure of it all hitting him in a match.
Yesterday, it seemed like Joe was wrestling straight on and not working for angles, especially in the 3rd when he needed the TD. I hope he figures it out, because you’re right about his high ceiling.
 
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