Day 1 National Duals Results & Discussion

El-Jefe

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Jul 27, 2012
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after sleeping on this i wonder how much spencer is a victim of his own dominance in terms of our perception of him. i didn’t even realize it but that second kid is ranked 11th in the country and spencer slept walked his way to a shutout major. kid had really flexible shoulders and narrowly avoided some turns but that’s about it.

for who else would this be considered a down performance? maybe vito was flashier against teske, but spencer was just as dominant even though he didn’t “look right.”
We in PA have seen a ton of Jaret Lane over the years. Very good on the mat but not Glory or Suriano there. Zero turns by Lee is attention-grabbing.

Fair or not, Lane is not the bar for Lee -- it's Suriano, Glory, Arujau, and nobody else.

PS, "flexible shoulders" -- why didn't Micah Jordan ever think of that?
 
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Verolion

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Mar 19, 2021
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I have noticed thru my years watching PSU we don't shake the other coaches hand. But a couple still will.

I'm thinking it came from their high school coaches. If he made wrestlers shake hands they continue. My coaches in high school we didn't shake but other teams did. I'd assume any PSU wrestler gets to decide if they want but other teams have a rule.
 
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jsn4388

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Jul 13, 2020
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I agree; I didn't think BB wrestled poorly at all. Yianni was really getting after it in that match and still only managed a major on the riding point. Yianni is world class; BB has maybe 15 collegiate matches and is wrestling up (at least) one weight class. I was fine with what I saw tonight.
I hate to bring up the topic of Jarod Verkleeren, but BB's offensive style reminds me of this comparison. I am hoping to be wrong as he develops more and more.

 

js8793

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We in PA have seen a ton of Jaret Lane over the years. Very good on the mat but not Glory or Suriano there. Zero turns by Lee is attention-grabbing.

Fair or not, Lane is not the bar for Lee -- it's Suriano, Glory, Arujau, and nobody else.

PS, "flexible shoulders" -- why didn't Micah Jordan ever think of that?
well he’s not turning suriano. he never has. did you watch the match btw? he had lane 90% turned repeatedly in the first. lane was able to stay propped up high enough on his elbow to avoid a count. spencer needed a little more forward pressure on his turn instead of straight to the side. pretty simple technical adjustment that i put up to a little rust. everything else he did looked easy.

was it his best? no. but he was better than i have him credit for yesterday.
 

goethe14

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Why are people responding to someone who’s handle is nothing meaningful????
 

NittanyChris

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We in PA have seen a ton of Jaret Lane over the years. Very good on the mat but not Glory or Suriano there. Zero turns by Lee is attention-grabbing.

Fair or not, Lane is not the bar for Lee -- it's Suriano, Glory, Arujau, and nobody else.

PS, "flexible shoulders" -- why didn't Micah Jordan ever think of that?
What Iowa fans fail to acknowledge is that 125 was a desert wasteland last season. It's not this year. Doesn't mean Spencer won't win it all, but it won't be the walk in the park that many Hawks fans imagine.
 
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johnstownsteel

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Johnstown Pa
well he’s not turning suriano. he never has. did you watch the match btw? he had lane 90% turned repeatedly in the first. lane was able to stay propped up high enough on his elbow to avoid a count. spencer needed a little more forward pressure on his turn instead of straight to the side. pretty simple technical adjustment that i put up to a little rust. everything else he did looked easy.

was it his best? no. but he was better than i have him credit for yesterday.
I don't know about all that. I'm just doubting a message board warrior knows what Spencer needed to do there to turn the guy while once in a generation talent like Spencer couldn't remember or figure it out. Rust? The kid is all world, is practicing every day... rust is why he couldn't get the turn there? Not buying it. Just think his opponent was good enough to stop him..nothing more, nothing less.
 

ZepGraffiti

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Aug 21, 2015
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"LOL": Are you 12 years old?

Shaking hands has been a thing for at least the decade+ I've been watching wrestling. Why did Brooks do it?
Where to draw the line?

Line up teams at the edge pre-match, intro them and they shake hands.
When they take the mat, they shake hands again.
Match is over, shake hands.
*Now run to the opposing bench and shake a few more.
Dual is over, line-up and shake all the hands.

Any other contact sport shake hands so much in 2 hours?
If we can eliminate one of them, see *.

With that said, I think in tourneys it's probably good to shake with the other corner. Seems more common.
 

GantryZ

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Jul 12, 2013
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well he’s not turning suriano. he never has. did you watch the match btw? he had lane 90% turned repeatedly in the first. lane was able to stay propped up high enough on his elbow to avoid a count. spencer needed a little more forward pressure on his turn instead of straight to the side. pretty simple technical adjustment that i put up to a little rust. everything else he did looked easy.

was it his best? no. but he was better than i have him credit for yesterday.

I agree, Lee looked totally fine and dominated that match. He won by major, had a good 4-5 turns that were so close to back points, plus was fresh in the 3rd. Plus a couple more bars that were called off for PD, the whole match was him punishing Lane on top. In the rare moments where it was on the feet, Spencer scored quickly and easily. Lane did a heck of a job to fight off the back points but after watching that I wouldn't be concerned if I'm a Spencer Lee fan.
 
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TangSoo

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Oct 30, 2015
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And not shaking the opposing coaches hand is a sign of disrespect? The vast majority of Penn State guys give a respectable post match handshake to their opponents. That's better than most, and meets the expected standard. A lot of coaches don't seem real interested in a post match handshake.
 

js8793

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I don't know about all that. I'm just doubting a message board warrior knows what Spencer needed to do there to turn the guy while once in a generation talent like Spencer couldn't remember or figure it out. Rust? The kid is all world, is practicing every day... rust is why he couldn't get the turn there? Not buying it. Just think his opponent was good enough to stop him..nothing more, nothing less.
is terry brands yelling “more forward” out to him on the mat good enough for you?
 

tbay165

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Oct 29, 2018
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I’m leaning that way, but hope not as this is big for seeding (I.e. avoiding GS until as late as possible)
Why would they wrestle in these duals if they didn't want to wrestle good competition. Makes less than zero sense. The only way he doesn't wrestle is if he is sick or dinged up. Should Brooks have sat against Northern Iowa? Should Bartlett have sat against Cornell?
 
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Junglekitty

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Feb 15, 2018
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If any of the four returning NCs are up 5 with 1:30+ of riding time going into the 3rd, and they aren't playing catch and release, I'm going to have a meltdown.
I agree with you. Especially with a guy like RBY who is known for his offense, not his top work. I will never second guess Cael, he seems to let the wrestlers figure out how the flow of the match is going and where/what they want to work. But, I think a guy like RBY should go takedown and a 15ish second ride, release, repeat. After 5 takedowns, not only are you up by 5, but your riding time is over a minute as well. I think with Nick Lee's motor, he would be a good one to follow this as well. Although Nick is known to get some back points.

I was speaking with a past team mate of mine last night about this. When we wrestled, we secured the bonus points we thought we needed/thought we could at least get, and then went to work for a pin. I found it odd last night that our guys didn't seem to have that sense of urgency to get that next bonus point. I'm not bad mouthing them, or knocking them, the majority of the team put together 2 excellent matches back to back.

Looking forward to tonights dual, should be a great back and forth
 
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Chickenman Testa

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Why would they wrestle in these duals if they didn't want to wrestle good competition. Makes less than zero sense. The only way he doesn't wrestle is if he is sick or dinged up. Should Brooks have sat against Northern Iowa? Should Bartlett have sat against Cornell?
Where did I say I wanted him to sit?
 

dunkej01

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Is it yours? I noted that RBY and Brooks shook hands with the UNI coaches (although it looked like RBY was just confused as to where to go), and most of the UNI guys did the same.

The Cornell wrestlers (7 or 8 of them, as far as I could tell) came over to shake Penn State's coaches' hands; none of the PSU guys did.

I thought it was a sign of respect.
I find in match hand shaking a waste of time. We shake hands at the end of the night. That said I have no problem with people doing it or not doing it. As some form of lack of respect I think your picking a fight for the sake of stretching your fingers on the keyboard.

I mean we aren't communists or Hawkeyes
 
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AndEEss

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I agree with you. Especially with a guy like RBY who is known for his offense, not his top work. I will never second guess Cael, he seems to let the wrestlers figure out how the flow of the match is going and where/what they want to work. But, I think a guy like RBY should go takedown and a 15ish second ride, release, repeat. After 5 takedowns, not only are you up by 5, but your riding time is over a minute as well. I think with Nick Lee's motor, he would be a good one to follow this as well. Although Nick is known to get some back points.

I was speaking with a past team mate of mine last night about this. When we wrestled, we secured the bonus points we thought we needed/thought we could at least get, and then went to work for a pin. I found it odd last night that our guys didn't seem to have that sense of urgency to get that next bonus point. I'm not bad mouthing them, or knocking them, the majority of the team put together 2 excellent matches back to back.

Looking forward to tonights dual, should be a great back and forth

Yeah. Many/most of RBY's relatively few pins are in scrambles. Like the suck back he had against UNI; it wasn't like he was on top of the dude cranking on him in a Bow and Arrow for 30 seconds before the second shoulder hit the mat. He has the ability to get the TDs AND the motor to do it the entire match. And potentially catch people in hairy situations when they are about to keel over.
 

Str8DBLz

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Care to explain your reasoning? That Dual could be hanging in the balance at heavyweight and, if healthy, I’m sure Kerk would like an opportunity to avenge his loss at NCAAs.
I'm not sure kerk is 100% yet and we unfortunately seen what a not 100% kerk can do against guys the size and ability of Shultz.
 

Junglekitty

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Feb 15, 2018
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It's hard to get a TF on just TD and release.
100% Agree. But lets break down a match with someone as good on their feet as RBY. I believe RBY can average 4 takedowns a period. That's a takedown every 45 seconds in the first, and one every 30 seconds in the second and third. That alone is 24 points. If you eliminate the escape at the end of the period that is 24 - 9 just with takedowns. Give opponent an extra escape for him choosing down, but give RBY a riding time point. That's 25-10. If RBY stays on his offense, I would bet a stall point could be added as well. Is that a tall task, absolutely. I think there are maybe a handful of wrestlers in the nation that could do it, and RBY is one of them. Desanto is another, but with his barrel roll, he usually racks up back points as well. Again, and I can't stress this enough, it is difficult. But RBY is one that I believe can do this.
 
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a_mshaffer

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Yeah. Many/most of RBY's relatively few pins are in scrambles. Like the suck back he had against UNI; it wasn't like he was on top of the dude cranking on him in a Bow and Arrow for 30 seconds before the second shoulder hit the mat. He has the ability to get the TDs AND the motor to do it the entire match. And potentially catch people in hairy situations when they are about to keel over.
wasn't his first match an arm bar and cranked the kid over for a fall? At rec hall
 

Chris Watts

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Jan 9, 2020
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100% Agree. But lets break down a match with someone as good on their feet as RBY. I believe RBY can average 4 takedowns a period. That's a takedown every 45 seconds in the first, and one every 30 seconds in the second and third. That alone is 24 points. If you eliminate the escape at the end of the period that is 24 - 9 just with takedowns. Give opponent an extra escape for him choosing down, but give RBY a riding time point. That's 25-10. If RBY stays on his offense, I would bet a stall point could be added as well. Is that a tall task, absolutely. I think there are maybe a handful of wrestlers in the nation that could do it, and RBY is one of them. Desanto is another, but with his barrel roll, he usually racks up back points as well. Again, and I can't stress this enough, it is difficult. But RBY is one that I believe can do this.
I'm also confident RBY can do it. Mainly because he's already done it this season. :p
 

STAND with PRIDE

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I'm not sure kerk is 100% yet and we unfortunately seen what a not 100% kerk can do against guys the size and ability of Shultz.
I thought the same thing when I knew who we’d have tonight. Wouldnt be one bit surprised to see Snax.
Not worth a dual win, even if it is in front of 250+.
 
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McScoreley

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I find it odd that Kerk has been weighing in at 230. Just a bit concerned since he was 228 after his layoff last year and was rumored to have gotten to 250 in the offseason. Idk maybe it’s part of the plan, who knows
 
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jack66

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100% Agree. But lets break down a match with someone as good on their feet as RBY. I believe RBY can average 4 takedowns a period. That's a takedown every 45 seconds in the first, and one every 30 seconds in the second and third. That alone is 24 points. If you eliminate the escape at the end of the period that is 24 - 9 just with takedowns. Give opponent an extra escape for him choosing down, but give RBY a riding time point. That's 25-10. If RBY stays on his offense, I would bet a stall point could be added as well. Is that a tall task, absolutely. I think there are maybe a handful of wrestlers in the nation that could do it, and RBY is one of them. Desanto is another, but with his barrel roll, he usually racks up back points as well. Again, and I can't stress this enough, it is difficult. But RBY is one that I believe can do this.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but what you are describing is the perfect scenario with a ride out at the end of each period.

I like Nolf's strategy better ... wear a guy out for 2 periods with TD/release then go to work on top.
 

AndEEss

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I find it odd that Kerk has been weighing in at 230. Just a bit concerned since he was 228 after his layoff last year and was rumored to have gotten to 250 in the offseason. Idk maybe it’s part of the plan, who knows

I almost posted the exact same thing just now.

Bulk helps when you're wrestling a truly big guy like Schultz or Wood.
 

Rhino80

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Dec 31, 2016
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Pretty sure he just got over a stomach flu. Probably has a little to do with it.
 

McScoreley

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He was 231 against Army I believe so maybe it was a prolonged thing … either way thankfully we have 3 months to go instead of one month this time around