Dan Enos gets OC job at Bama................
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JMO but one of the reasons our passing game suffered was the loss of Barkely. He just did so many things and did them all at such high level that the opposing DC's had to account for him in every phase of the game.
I loved Barkley when he was here (ok I love him with the Giants too)
but even I didn't imagine the impact his departure would have on the offense especially the passing game.
I was making a different point, maybe he didn't get any offers, I don't know.Fine.
What does that have to do with the fact (IIRC) that Gattis didn’t leave when Moorhead got the OC job?
(For all I know - all anyone knows, really - Gattis may never be a quality OC or HFC anywhere..... let alone at Penn State circa 2018. One can - of one wishes to - only conjecture on that possibility...... obviously
OTOH, one CAN see the job Rahne has done in that position)
My point is that one can (and most do) "see" whatever one wants to- and it's become popular here to parrot the view that Rahne was a poor choice for the job- in my view, the jury is out on that and I want to "see" what next season looks like before forming an opinion
It remains my opinion that until posters here post their coaching resumes, I will continue to take all opinions (including my own) with a healthy doses of salt
I find it strange how much credit Gattis gets (here) for entering a well oiled machine at Alabama and being widely praised for the offensive output the Tide produced this season. Couldn't have had anything to do with the plethora of talent assembled...
Gattis was very likely hired because of his recruiting prowess first and foremost. Gattis very likely left more for the resume bulletin point than the seemingly fictional title of Co-OC (although a pay raise never hurts).
Gattis was very likely hired because of his recruiting prowess first and foremost. Gattis very likely left more for the resume bulletin point than the seemingly fictional title of Co-OC (although a pay raise never hurts).
I'm not sure he's getting the credit "here" for what he's done at Bama.
I'm giving him the credit here for what he did while he was at PSU.
As far as how coaches do at Bama I give you Mike Locksley. He was a dumpster fire everywhere else.
I'm certainly not going to question that Franklin knows way more than I do about football and that his decision matter while mine doesn't. On the other hand, he did hire Donovan twice.
(For all I know - all anyone knows, really - Gattis may never be a quality OC or HFC anywhere..... let alone at Penn State circa 2018. One can - of one wishes to - only conjecture on that possibility...... obviously
OTOH, one CAN see the job Rahne has done in that position)
Well listen, we can disagree on Rahne or Gattis. My point was, there was much angst when Gattis left to be the Co-OC at Bama. "How could we let go of guy Saban was willing to appoint as Co-OC? Well now it appears as you suggest this was a case of title inflation and he likely is down somewhere on the Bama "list" and he is really just a well paid position coach not the next Saban annointed superstar. Don't get me wrong I wish we had poneyed up the money and he was still here, but i am willing to trust CJF that he thought RR was a better choice for our OC.
I also don't blame Gattis, as you say having position coach at Alabama is a tad more impressive than position coach at PSU.
Good post. I would add two more things.
.RR had to deal with an injured Trace for half the season which limited production.
. As good as Miles is, he probably had a decent number of 10-20 yard runs that SQ may have taken to the house which clearly would change the complexion of many games.
That could have been changed. And have you looked at Donovan's career trajectory since being given the heave ho?
So Franklin may not be infallible. Then why is is that fans can't question his decisions?
I'm not sure it could have been changed- I think CJF was walking a fine line trying to keep the players he didn't recruit on board while at the same time moving the program in a different direction. I think he gave Hack the word at the end of the season, and that is why Hack left early- even though he was far from NFL ready.
And no, I don't follow coaches or players after they leave PSU or recruits before they suit up for PSU, either.
I wouldn't call my reaction to Gattis leaving angst. That happened when Rahne was named OC. Is it possible that Gattis would have been a worse choice to replace Moorhead? Sure. But given what I heard of the two, I had a better impression of Gattis. There was also Choice C: neither of the above, go outside.
If so, two bad decisions by Franklin. The first, to continue playing Hackenberg if McSorely were the better option. The second, to fire a coach who was essentially was a victim of the first decision. I'd like to think that Franklin is smarter and more ethical than that picture portrays.
Damn, it must be exhausting constantly sitting in judgment of everyone and everything. Try to get some rest.
Donovan had 5-Star / Can’t Miss / Hollywood Casting returning starter Christian Hackenberg (And Hackenberg and the PSU Offense promptly tripped all over its own dick..... although I’d be the first to note that the supporting cast was less than superb
Moorhead inherited 3-Star / Mid-Major / “You wanna’ take a shot at Safety, kid?” Trace McSorley - who had never started a college game....... and turned him into a Heisman Candidate...... producing the two greatest years ever for a PSU QB / Passing Game.....
Until Moorhead left and Rahne took over.....
And Rahne inherited “Moorhead-trained”, third year starter, Heisman Candidate McSorley, and promptly molded him into an offense where he became the 9th most efficient QB - - - - not in the nation, but in the Big10 (behind such luminaries as Jake Hornibrook and Tanner Morgan)
But. Yeah....... Moorhead inherited the Jackpot.
I’ll see my way out...... as soon as I stop laughing so hard that tears are clouding my vision
Wow let's leave Hack and Donovan out of the discussion, both were worse than advertised.
Moorhead was great for our program, and his offense made Trace the QB he became, however IMO the comparisons with Rahne aren't proper comparisons. Let's look at the two years
. RR's big advantage was an OL and QB with another year experience.
. Moorhead's advantages were
- PSU's GOAT at running back. SQ was so damn explosive running and catching he literally forced DC's build a plan to stop him no matter what [and still couldn't]. It would be silly to put it mildly to think the focus placed on SQ didn't greatly enhance TM's QB play.
- probably PSU's all time best receiving TE Geisicki won a helluva lot of 50/50 jump balls.
- NFL receiver's Godwin and Hamilton - Compare them to Polk and Thompkins
- Also under appreciated is the fact that our Defense was much better last year which gave the offense more chances and Moorhead more flexibility in his play calling.
Intangibles
TM played on one leg half the year, threw the ball much worse [even when guys were open] and our wr's dropped twice as many passes.[I don't blame RR for any of that]
The only apples to apples was when RR coached the same team Moorhead had and he did pretty well against a good defense.
One final thought is this. I think MSU's offense this year was very mediocre. Maybe it takes everyone time to adjust to a new system
he got neither....
App State: NC State offensive coordinator Eli Drinkwitz will be App State’s new head coach source tells FootballScoop. Ethan Joyce was first to report the planned hire.
For those saying he didnt leave when there was an OC position sooner ...
The staff (as well as JF obviously) realized the biggest problem was the offense that year and that if they didnt get one immediately the whole staff would've been gone. That's why Gattis didn't care about being "overlooked" when Moorhead came in. Because all the pressure was now on the offense and you didn't want to be a first year OC coming into that.
Following the two Moorhead years the pressure wasn't as much (still there to keep the offense humming obviously) and both guys felt they were the guy to replace Moorhead. Whichever one lost out on the job would've probably been gone. Gattis lost so he left. Rahne is known as a coach that doesn't have much higher aspirations than an OC. Gattis wants to keep advancing and be a P5 coach. He was going to jump at the first HC job he got while here so JF went with the safer longer-term option.
The staff (as well as JF obviously) realized the biggest problem was the offense that year and that if they didnt get one immediately the whole staff would've been gone. That's why Gattis didn't care about being "overlooked" when Moorhead came in. Because all the pressure was now on the offense and you didn't want to be a first year OC coming into that.
Following the two Moorhead years the pressure wasn't as much (still there to keep the offense humming obviously) and both guys felt they were the guy to replace Moorhead. Whichever one lost out on the job would've probably been gone. Gattis lost so he left. Rahne is known as a coach that doesn't have much higher aspirations than an OC. Gattis wants to keep advancing and be a P5 coach. He was going to jump at the first HC job he got while here so JF went with the safer longer-term option.
Barkley went pro and along with that was probably the 2TD drop off per game and about another 100 yards in passing. Barkley elevated EVERYONE's play to a level I had no idea existed when he was here.
It is what it is.
We have a scheme problem IMO. Even under Moorhead, our routes are often slow developing and deeper than what other teams run. Our receivers are often times running into coverage even when the DBs are playing off coverage. We have no hot reads. We don’t run many quick passes to take advantage of space given by defenses. If Trace didn’t buy time in the pocket and keep his eyes downfield, our offense would have been dead in the water in both 2016 and 2017.
I think the WRs take a lot of heat for lack of separation but I believe part of the issue is that defenses have figured out our reads and know our patterns. How else do you explain so many guys with great speed struggling to get open? Look at MSU. It’s passing game was a flop this year. I honestly feel defense have figured out both PSU and MSU’s scheme and we need more answers to counter what defenses are doing.
I also think our passing game this year struggled more from the change in WR personnel than from losing Barkley. In 2016 and 2017, we had the same issues in terms of separation. The difference was that we had experienced receivers who were where they were supposed to be, when they were supposed to be there, and were very good at making catches in traffic. This year, not only did we drop a ton of balls in space, we made very little contested catches. There also seemed to be a lot of miscommunications between QB and receivers.
When I watch other teams, it seems like they routinely have guys running wide open in space. Look at OSU, OU, Bama, WVU, and even Purdue. How is it they constantly have guys running in space? In contrast, everything we do seems like a struggle. We have very few easy throws that get our athletes in space compared to other teams.
I think Moorhead’s offense works best when you have three to four receivers who are all play makers. In the B10 championship, Wisconsin did a good job taking away Godwin. Our offense still worked because we had Hamilton and Blacknall to pick up the slack. This year, when teams took away Hamler, we were shut down from the receiver standpoint (until Dotson started coming on later in the year). Similar to what Purdue did with Rondale Moore, we needed to figure out how to get Hamler the ball more in space. If Moore was playing in our offense, he probably would have have had 1/4 of the touches he had with Purdue because the defense would show a look that took him away as an option. That is a major problem.
I think the WRs take a lot of heat for lack of separation but I believe part of the issue is that defenses have figured out our reads and know our patterns. How else do you explain so many guys with great speed struggling to get open? Look at MSU. It’s passing game was a flop this year. I honestly feel defense have figured out both PSU and MSU’s scheme and we need more answers to counter what defenses are doing.
I also think our passing game this year struggled more from the change in WR personnel than from losing Barkley. In 2016 and 2017, we had the same issues in terms of separation. The difference was that we had experienced receivers who were where they were supposed to be, when they were supposed to be there, and were very good at making catches in traffic. This year, not only did we drop a ton of balls in space, we made very little contested catches. There also seemed to be a lot of miscommunications between QB and receivers.
When I watch other teams, it seems like they routinely have guys running wide open in space. Look at OSU, OU, Bama, WVU, and even Purdue. How is it they constantly have guys running in space? In contrast, everything we do seems like a struggle. We have very few easy throws that get our athletes in space compared to other teams.
I think Moorhead’s offense works best when you have three to four receivers who are all play makers. In the B10 championship, Wisconsin did a good job taking away Godwin. Our offense still worked because we had Hamilton and Blacknall to pick up the slack. This year, when teams took away Hamler, we were shut down from the receiver standpoint (until Dotson started coming on later in the year). Similar to what Purdue did with Rondale Moore, we needed to figure out how to get Hamler the ball more in space. If Moore was playing in our offense, he probably would have have had 1/4 of the touches he had with Purdue because the defense would show a look that took him away as an option. That is a major problem.
I agree with this 100% (and I think the Eagles fall into the same situation, but thats another story).
Yup, I remember just after Moorhead was hired watching the video of him explaining the philosophy behind his offense and how easy it was to pick up. Almost immediately the thought crossed my mind that it would be similarly so for opposing defenses. So where was the advantage? In having a combination of superior athletes (duh!) who practiced the offense all the time as opposed to defenses that had limited preparation. When a team is stalemated (or worse) on the athletic front, it has to compensate by becoming less predictable. Rahne seldom demonstrated that this season.
SMH at most of this..Sports aren't like Petri Dish experiments - - - - where one can isolate a single variable and "see what happens".
But, that doesn't mean one can't either do a detailed examination, or limit things to a cursory examination..... and the more detailed the examination - the more predictive and causative the results will be.
(And, FWIW, when I "say shit", it is generally done only after taking on as extensive and as detailed an analysis as possible)
For two years, PSU's pass game generated most of their explosive plays from situations where they created "conflict" in the opposing defenses.
I have no idea what proprietary labels PSU uses to denote their schemes.... but the most effective schemes, that PSU employed frequently under Moorhead (using generic terms of my own derivation) were:
1) Levels - - - - Multiple (usually three, sometimes two) level routes to the same side of the field: Creating assignment conflict against either two and three deep zones, or a series of match-ups for the QB against man defenses - which allowed the QB to pick the most favorable matchup.
2) Outside switch - - - - Generally run from the "2 wide" side of the formation (often a TE and a Flanker), that is schematically a version of a "rub route" - but run vertically instead of horizontally. A very favorable scheme against man-under defenses with either two-deep or ace coverage.
3) Slot fade - - - - one of their most often utilized schemes against man-under defenses, designed to match up a top-tier receiver against the opponents 3rd or 4th cover DB.
These were, for two years, the most often-employed (and most successful), downfield pass schemes for PSU.
In any event, and whatever Moorhead called them, they were all schemes with a similar goal - - - - - create conflict.
Now... 2018:
Just one set of data - from THE VERY FIRST GAME of the year (ASU):
Penn State (McSorley) threw 13 passes that traveled 10+ yards downfield.
What schemes did they employ?
I'll list them from "longest" to "shortest" throws (underlining those that were completed passes):
46 yards downfield: End-of-half Hail Mary
46 yards: Deep post to Slot Receiver
40 yards: Go route to single side receiver (where single-side receiver = guy lined up alone on one side of a 3X1 or 2X1 formation)
35 yards: Go route to single side receiver
35 yards: Go route to outside receiver in 2 by 2 set
29 yards: Go route to single side receiver
29 yards: Deep out …. this was a school yard play off of a McSorley scramble where he found the TE (Holland) lost in coverage and wide open
21 yards: Go route to single side receiver
17 yards: Deep out to slot receiver.
This was the "levels" scheme outlined above.
15 yard: Slot post in red zone for TD
13 yard: Short post off of the RPO
12 yard: Out to single side receiver
10 yard: Crossing route
So... of those 13 10+ yard downfield throws.....
There was ONE Levels scheme.... and zero outside switch routes, and zero slot fades.
Instead, there were a boatload of Go Routes (almost all to the single-side receiver in 3X1 or 2X1 formations)
From Day 1, Rahne dramatically changed the PSU downfield pass game - that had been so effective for two years.
Why? IDK?
But it was not a one-game anomaly.... This continued throughout the year (along with the near removal of RPO passes.... until the last several games).
I could go through this shit for every game this year (breaking these things down is just something I've always done.. other folks collect stamps.
Why did he do that? IDK?
But it surely would seem to be more than coincident with a significant decline in the productivity of the pass game.
Was there any congruent benefit gained? To offset the dropoff in the downfield pass game?
There surely would not appear to be (aside from perhaps a lessening of TFLs in the run game - which MIGHT be attributable to speeding up the RPO decision process. IDK, but I think those two are likely related).
In composite - IMO (backed by extensive and detailed analysis of each game) - Rahne took away from the PSU offense exactly what Moorhead had installed - - - - - - the ability to consistently put the opposing defense in conflict, thereby generating explosive plays.
In the terms I used at the time, he made the offense "less scary"... which, IMO , was a very bad thing
Whatever else transpired, under Rahne the PSU offense (especially the downfield pass offense) changed dramatically. From Day 1. Without question.
Without the ability to "petri-dish" the thing, no one could say with scientific certainty what the impact of those changes were - but I think reasonable intelligent observation would indicate a strong likelihood that the net impact was not positive.
I hope that Rahne leads a wonderfully effective offense next year (since I can't see anyone else running the 2019 PSU offense), and he will have to - if Penn State is going to reach the levels of success it is capable of.
But I also can't un-see what he has done this far.
Terms?
Levels- is usually termed as a 'high/low' read, and most times it is used vs zone coverage. How many times did App st run zone coverager? (hint not that often)
Outside Switch- is usually termed as a combination route to the outside
Slot fade- is just that, a slot running a fade vs man to man coverage.
again you miss identify man under when they are really running a man free coverage, big difference. But Slot fade is one way to beat man to man coverage, but not man free coverage as the slot fade, is very easy for the free safety in the middle of the field to identify and ends up doubling the inside guy.
Now if you watch, App State runs a lot of man free coverage, and that allows for a 5 man rush. In fact go back and watch the fist series with the deep throw down the sidelines to 84 (who was held on the play) App state is in Man Free with a 5 man rush.
So maybe RR decided to attack that D differently. Instead of running the Slot down the field and into the FS, maybe they decided the outside match up of a 6'4 Juwan Johnson vs a generous 5-10 Clifton Duck (despite having a good rep) would be more effective. And, again if you watch the first series, that is exactly what happened, Johnson draws the foul and PSU has a TD a few plays later.
of course it doesnt matter who the OC is when you execute plays like this...
I like to use the youtubes, because it gives you the visual evidence, no typing necessary.
But whatever....
FTR I have no problem with RR.
