COVID gratuitous dumpster fire thread

STAND with PRIDE

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the odds for all age groups combined in the US is about 1 in 77 (849K deaths in 65.2M cases) or 1.3%. i think that 99.96% survival rate is 18-29 only.

even using your suspect number, 53 in 100,000 means 3.5 people would die at each psu wrestling home dual. 1 in 100,000 means there's a 1 in 15 change a single person would die at each psu wrestling home dual. i can't say i'd definitely go in the 2nd scenario, but i sure as heck wouldn't go in the first.
First dibs on his tickets.
 
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manmythlegend1

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This Thread is amazing..lol

In My Opinion you can break down these groups into 3 categories

1st Group are people who are all about Freedom over Security, They Ascribe to the Franklin Idea that "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety" These people have not changed thier opinion at all in the last 2 years. They were willing to shut down to flatten the curve until we could evaluate how deadly this virus truly was. It was voluntary, not coerced and supposed to be until the curve was flattened.

2nd group were frightened, wait and see kind of people. they wanted to trust the government and dont really follow politics. They figure it must be really bad or we would not be forcing emergency vaccinations onto everyone. They probably remember being told at the beginning how the Vaccines would stop the virus and life would be going back to normal if people would just get vaxxed... now many realize they were misled. They would rarely post here because again, not political people.

3rd Group are the Entrenched. No matter how many times the goalposts are moved they move along with them. They think they can grab water out of the ocean and hold onto it as long as they squeeze harder. Because their hands are still wet, they think they are being successful. They dont care about anything other than Covid Lives, not because they truly dont care about all the problems in the USA that have been ignored for the last 2 years...but because Covid has been their entire political existence for a very long time. They are so invested in being right, they dont care how much liberty gets destroyed. They are not outraged about the potential origins? They are not outraged about the political theatre? Or the Double Standards? They do not seem to care to follow the Money? They Are Morally superior-- why?, because they Care more about my Life than I do?

Name for me 1 time in History, on a 2-5 year timetable-- Where the GOOD GUYS were the ones who silenced opposition in the Town square to win debates?
 

psumacw

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Name for me 1 time in History, on a 2-5 year timetable-- Where the GOOD GUYS were the ones who silenced opposition in the Town square to win debates?

hate to be the one to jump to nazis, but

"The German penal code prohibits publicly denying the Holocaust and disseminating Nazi propaganda, both off- and online. This includes sharing images such as swastikas, wearing an SS uniform and making statements in support of Hitler."

 

pawrestlersintn

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Jan 26, 2013
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the odds for all age groups combined in the US is about 1 in 77 (849K deaths in 65.2M cases) or 1.3%. i think that 99.96% survival rate is 18-29 only.

even using your suspect number, 53 in 100,000 means 3.5 people would die at each psu wrestling home dual. 1 in 100,000 means there's a 1 in 15 change a single person would die at each psu wrestling home dual. i can't say i'd definitely go in the 2nd scenario, but i sure as heck wouldn't go in the first.
So, for your stats to work, all 6500 people at the dual have to first catch it.
 
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James P. Whitters III

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hate to be the one to jump to nazis, but

"The German penal code prohibits publicly denying the Holocaust and disseminating Nazi propaganda, both off- and online. This includes sharing images such as swastikas, wearing an SS uniform and making statements in support of Hitler."

The current German government would hardly qualify as good guys.
 
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District four

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Its ha
hate to be the one to jump to nazis, but

"The German penal code prohibits publicly denying the Holocaust and disseminating Nazi propaganda, both off- and online. This includes sharing images such as swastikas, wearing an SS uniform and making statements in support of Hitler."

hate to be the one to jump to nazis, but

"The German penal code prohibits publicly denying the Holocaust and disseminating Nazi propaganda, both off- and online. This includes sharing images such as swastikas, wearing an SS uniform and making statements in support of Hitler."

It's happened too many times to count lol
 

GogglesPaizano

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So you never expose yourself to something that hasn’t had a 10 year longitudinal study completed?
No, it will be at least 10 years before we get a vaccine that actually works.

Without a vaccine that proves effective at preventing infection, sickness and transmission; we ain't going to put Covid to bed - by a long shot.

You know they have been working on creating "traditional Corona" virus vaccines for the past 30 years to no avail - right?

What we have can't do the above and also has limited effectiveness to 3-6 months, limited ability to remain effective vs new variants.

Your original comment ("if there is a free, fast, and harmless way to nearly eliminate them entirely, why wouldn’t you") is not only monumentally misinformed but is a complete pipe dream for at least another decade when 'maybe' better vaccine technology becomes available.
 

crablegs1

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No, it will be at least 10 years before we get a vaccine that actually works.

Without a vaccine that proves effective at preventing infection, sickness and transmission; we ain't going to put Covid to bed - by a long shot.

You know they have been working on creating "traditional Corona" virus vaccines for the past 30 years to no avail - right?

What we have can't do the above and also has limited effectiveness to 3-6 months, limited ability to remain effective vs new variants.

Your original comment ("if there is a free, fast, and harmless way to nearly eliminate them entirely, why wouldn’t you") is not only monumentally misinformed but is a complete pipe dream for at least another decade when 'maybe' better vaccine technology becomes available.
My comment was not about “putting covid to bed”. It was about limiting one’s risk of death. Follow along.
 

psumacw

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Sep 18, 2017
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So, for your stats to work, all 6500 people at the dual have to first catch it.

right, it was an illustration to put into perspective that, although "53 in 100,000" sounds like an insignificantly small number, if you take a random sampling of unvaccinated 18-29 year olds the size of rec hall and give them that mortality rate, there's a good chance that multiple of them would die.
 

PD4thespawn

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Give me liberty or let me give you death!
P
right, it was an illustration to put into perspective that, although "53 in 100,000" sounds like an insignificantly small number, if you take a random sampling of unvaccinated 18-29 year olds the size of rec hall and give them that mortality rate, there's a good chance that multiple of them would die.
right, it was an illustration to put into perspective that, although "53 in 100,000" sounds like an insignificantly small number, if you take a random sampling of unvaccinated 18-29 year olds the size of rec hall and give them that mortality rate, there's a good chance that multiple of them would die.
Lets use Carver..
 
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1032004

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I'm sure, as soon as the guests left at 6:00 PM, that family member immediately became contagious. Amazing. What are the odds? 👌🙄

You’re being disingenuous. If the family members that got it live together, the first person could have become contagious 8+ hours later or so.

Although technically yes, it is possible to test negative and then positive a few hours later with both results being accurate…
 

manmythlegend1

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hate to be the one to jump to nazis, but

"The German penal code prohibits publicly denying the Holocaust and disseminating Nazi propaganda, both off- and online. This includes sharing images such as swastikas, wearing an SS uniform and making statements in support of Hitler."

I can appreciate this one as an example, I still don't think it makes the German Government the Good Guys. They do not have Freedom of Speech in Germany. You can be Arrested and Jailed for "Hate Speech" in Germany. I agree that denying the Holocaust is a horrendous thing and deserves public Ridicule, but to Jail someone over words is a slippery slope that will inevitably lead to a broadening of "hate Speech". Then it is only a matter of time when it will once again be used against political opponents for the maintaining of Power. I think we are seeing this slippery slope already happening in Germany, Austria, Australia, Canada, ETC. It can quickly escalate?

So, The Person who denies the Holocaust is a Bad Guy, And Arresting someone for that speech is also the Bad Guy..to me both can be true.

One Final Point- If the Holocaust deniers had the power of Germany and made it hate speech to say it happened. That would be horrible, yet You have created a system where this can happen because all it takes is for those with the wrong ideas and Alterio motives to be in charge. Freedom of speech (not the incitement of violence) is always worth allowing. Debate is never the bad guy!!!
 

pawrestlersintn

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You’re being disingenuous. If the family members that got it live together, the first person could have become contagious 8+ hours later or so.

Although technically yes, it is possible to test negative and then positive a few hours later with both results being accurate…
The first family member to show symptoms, showed symptoms the day after the gathering. There is a high likelihood he was contagious on Thanksgiving day. Are you arguing that you have to be symptomatic to be contagious?

 

82bordeaux

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I think we are seeing this slippery slope already happening in Germany, Austria, Australia, Canada, ETC. It can quickly escalate?
I was a partner in a joint venture we had in Germany for 15 years. The German people overwhelmingly support these laws. It isn't even close. The reason that they feel they need these laws? Because they were allowed to go too far down another slippery slope, and now they live with the consequence.
We need to be careful which slopes we allow ourselves to slide down. Germany will forever be stigmatized with a period when Power+Hate = Horrific Consequence. Quite frankly, we came a little too close to that formula for my comfort. And before you label me a bleeding heart Lib. I'm a lifelong Republican. I voted for one Democratic candidate in my life, and I never miss a vote. I am not a member of a political party of hate.
One final question; are you OK with Al-Qaeda and ISIS using our rights of free speech to recruit on U.S. soil? I sure don't. I can happily live on that icy slope.
 
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manmythlegend1

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I was a partner in a joint venture we had in Germany for 15 years. The German people overwhelmingly support these laws. It isn't even close. The reason that they feel they need these laws? Because they were allowed to go too far down another slippery slope, and now they live with the consequence.
We need to be careful which slopes we allow ourselves to slide down. Germany will forever be stigmatized with a period when Power+Hate = Horrific Consequence. Quite frankly, we came a little too close to that formula for my comfort. And before you label me a bleeding heart Lib. I'm a lifelong Republican. I voted for one Democratic candidate in my life, and I never miss a vote. I am not a member of a political party of hate.
One final question; are you OK with Al-Qaeda and ISIS using our rights of free speech to recruit on U.S. soil? I sure don't. I can happily live on that icy slope.
You make some great Points. I am sure Germany is very ok with it as they are embarrassed and ashamed.. as they should be. They felt (Rightfully so) necessary to fall on the sword and be very strict so the rest of the world will believe they were heading down a correct path of peace. I would even argue the law if narrow in its scope as it originally was would produce a result I would be Estatic with. However, these things never stay narrow in thier scope. As people and governments become more powerful, they become more corrupt. You must protect the citizens of a country having these same laws used against them in an abusive manner.

ironically alot of the arguments you just made were the same arguments the Nazis used to gain that exact power. We must stop this group (and anyone who defends them) from talking because they pose a danger to the community, We must be ok with taking away their liberties because they are a danger to society ETC. You see the problem with this line of thinking?? Its fine until you are the group that is deemed dangerous?

Your al-Queda and Isis argument is a good one, I grant you that. i am sure many will disagree with me here. First distinction is are you a U.S. citizen, there are different rules for shutting down speech of foreign influencers? If you are a U.S. citizen and you are Inciting Violence it MOST DEFINATELY CAN be shut down, if not then it should be allowed. In My Opinion where this argument of yours falls apart, is you feel (your interpretation) of violent thoughts are on the same level as violent actions. Policing thoughts is very dangerous.

There would be some, authoritarians on the right, after the BLM protests who would be ok with arresting that group as Terrorists? would you?, I sure as hell wouldn't?

Freedom is Messy and not easy, you must remain consistent in application of logic for every side or liberty slowly dies with emotional decisions--- IE PATRIOT ACT!!!!!!!!!!
 

GogglesPaizano

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My comment was not about “putting covid to bed”. It was about limiting one’s risk of death. Follow along.

Yadda yadda. Risk of death, what a putz. Turn the whole frigging world on its head for 2 years and counting for a 0.4% mortality rate. Oh wait a minute, that's 0.4% heavily skewed towards people 70 and older. Wait a minute, even more heavily skewed towards a sub population with significant co-morbidities. Hold the phone, 95% of which have a weak immune systems vitamin D deficiency. Then there is the absolute rejection of any idea of cheap therapudics by big pharma and the establishment... The list goes on, and on, and on....

If you really want to talk about risk of death. Had the world singled out the 'real' at risk population for proper hygene, vitamin D supplements, yes vaccines and masking, testing and very early and aggressive therapudics for positives with symptoms, then you may have something .... Vaccinating my 12 year old daughter ain't it! You follow?
 

1032004

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Jan 3, 2019
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The first family member to show symptoms, showed symptoms the day after the gathering. There is a high likelihood he was contagious on Thanksgiving day. Are you arguing that you have to be symptomatic to be contagious?


No, I’m well aware of presymptomatic transmission. But the length of the infectious period can vary. If they didn’t start showing symptoms until the following day, he could have still been contagious after Thanksgiving dinner (or at least MORE contagious) but before showing symptoms.

Whatever, go on believing your anecdotes. It’s all you have.
 
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crablegs1

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Yadda yadda. Risk of death, what a putz. Turn the whole frigging world on its head for 2 years and counting for a 0.4% mortality rate. Oh wait a minute, that's 0.4% heavily skewed towards people 70 and older. Wait a minute, even more heavily skewed towards a sub population with significant co-morbidities. Hold the phone, 95% of which have a weak immune systems vitamin D deficiency. Then there is the absolute rejection of any idea of cheap therapudics by big pharma and the establishment... The list goes on, and on, and on....

If you really want to talk about risk of death. Had the world singled out the 'real' at risk population for proper hygene, vitamin D supplements, yes vaccines and masking, testing and very early and aggressive therapudics for positives with symptoms, then you may have something .... Vaccinating my 12 year old daughter ain't it! You follow?
Again you’re changing the topic. But that’s ok. We know where you stand and that you don’t actually want to engage the topic at hand. Good day.
 

1032004

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Yadda yadda. Risk of death, what a putz. Turn the whole frigging world on its head for 2 years and counting for a 0.4% mortality rate. Oh wait a minute, that's 0.4% heavily skewed towards people 70 and older. Wait a minute, even more heavily skewed towards a sub population with significant co-morbidities. Hold the phone, 95% of which have a weak immune systems vitamin D deficiency. Then there is the absolute rejection of any idea of cheap therapudics by big pharma and the establishment... The list goes on, and on, and on....

If you really want to talk about risk of death. Had the world singled out the 'real' at risk population for proper hygene, vitamin D supplements, yes vaccines and masking, testing and very early and aggressive therapudics for positives with symptoms, then you may have something .... Vaccinating my 12 year old daughter ain't it! You follow?
Dexamethasone is one of the most commonly used therapeutics, and it’s cheap. Everything isn’t a conspiracy.
 

James P. Whitters III

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I was a partner in a joint venture we had in Germany for 15 years. The German people overwhelmingly support these laws. It isn't even close. The reason that they feel they need these laws? Because they were allowed to go too far down another slippery slope, and now they live with the consequence.
We need to be careful which slopes we allow ourselves to slide down. Germany will forever be stigmatized with a period when Power+Hate = Horrific Consequence. Quite frankly, we came a little too close to that formula for my comfort. And before you label me a bleeding heart Lib. I'm a lifelong Republican. I voted for one Democratic candidate in my life, and I never miss a vote. I am not a member of a political party of hate.
One final question; are you OK with Al-Qaeda and ISIS using our rights of free speech to recruit on U.S. soil? I sure don't. I can happily live on that icy slope.

The Germans have nothing on us. We committed genocide on a huge scale when we invaded an already populated land mass and killed the natives or pushed them into holding camps(reservations). We are not in a great place to judge Germany, but there is much more media representation of Jewish people than Native American people so it doesn't get talked about.
 
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82bordeaux

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The Germans have nothing on us. We committed genocide on a huge scale when we invaded an already populated land mass and killed the natives or pushed them into holding camps(reservations). We are not in a great place to judge Germany, but there is much more media representation of Jewish people than Native American people so it doesn't get talked about.
giphy.gif
 

86PSUPaul

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Aug 17, 2017
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right, it was an illustration to put into perspective that, although "53 in 100,000" sounds like an insignificantly small number, if you take a random sampling of unvaccinated 18-29 year olds the size of rec hall and give them that mortality rate, there's a good chance that multiple of them would die.
As PA said first they would have to all cacptch it, and it also assumes all of the 53 times is due to the vaccine, how about if some of the deaths had multiple comorbidities, yet those that lived were healthy, is it still just because of the vaccine that they lived?
 

psumacw

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As PA said first they would have to all cacptch it, and it also assumes all of the 53 times is due to the vaccine, how about if some of the deaths had multiple comorbidities, yet those that lived were healthy, is it still just because of the vaccine that they lived?

i'm not sure what you're getting at in this incoherent word jumble. this is just arithmetic. if you gathered a random sample of 6,500 people and they all had a 0.04% chance of dying, a couple of them would. if you divide that 0.04% by 53, then that number is 53 times lower. idk how simpler to say that.

i said it was an illustration, but i guess i didn't expect you to need me to draw it out in crayon.
 

manmythlegend1

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Jan 5, 2014
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The Germans have nothing on us. We committed genocide on a huge scale when we invaded an already populated land mass and killed the natives or pushed them into holding camps(reservations). We are not in a great place to judge Germany, but there is much more media representation of Jewish people than Native American people so it doesn't get talked about.
Good Point about American Atrocities, Trail of tears hopefully has Andrew Jackson in hell, if there is a hell.... but Some may argue that is all we talk about recently? Blaming the current populations for past atrocities seems to be pretty en vouge. Honest Question- Where does it end? How far back are we allowed to go?

The Atrocities of the Spanish Conquistadors far exceed that of the U.S. Government? Does that trump it making Spain far more evil than England? Or can I say the Americans have nothing on Native American Atrocities if you look at the Aztec, Mayan and Incan treatment of neighboring tribes? At some point, we need to judge people based off of their own actions? Feels very counter productive what many are focusing on?

I do find it Ironic the only group that isn't judged by past sins (and its not even that long ago) in the Mainstream are the Democrat Party and its obvious KKK, Jim Crow Past?? I often wonder why that is never pushed in a blaming mentality? Very Curious indeed?
 

a_mshaffer

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Dec 8, 2014
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depends how far back in history you want to go...all races / cultures are probably guilty of some atrocity. I would say the rise of the Nazi came about a little differently than the demise of native Americans. Funny how our start of the great depression fueled some fire for Hitler and his following as it spread to Europe. Also, the impact from WW1
 

crablegs1

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Feb 27, 2009
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Good Point about American Atrocities, Trail of tears hopefully has Andrew Jackson in hell, if there is a hell.... but Some may argue that is all we talk about recently? Blaming the current populations for past atrocities seems to be pretty en vouge. Honest Question- Where does it end? How far back are we allowed to go?

The Atrocities of the Spanish Conquistadors far exceed that of the U.S. Government? Does that trump it making Spain far more evil than England? Or can I say the Americans have nothing on Native American Atrocities if you look at the Aztec, Mayan and Incan treatment of neighboring tribes? At some point, we need to judge people based off of their own actions? Feels very counter productive what many are focusing on?

I do find it Ironic the only group that isn't judged by past sins (and its not even that long ago) in the Mainstream are the Democrat Party and its obvious KKK, Jim Crow Past?? I often wonder why that is never pushed in a blaming mentality? Very Curious indeed?
8tb13aqj6zj51.jpg
 

James P. Whitters III

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Good Point about American Atrocities, Trail of tears hopefully has Andrew Jackson in hell, if there is a hell.... but Some may argue that is all we talk about recently? Blaming the current populations for past atrocities seems to be pretty en vouge. Honest Question- Where does it end? How far back are we allowed to go?

The Atrocities of the Spanish Conquistadors far exceed that of the U.S. Government? Does that trump it making Spain far more evil than England? Or can I say the Americans have nothing on Native American Atrocities if you look at the Aztec, Mayan and Incan treatment of neighboring tribes? At some point, we need to judge people based off of their own actions? Feels very counter productive what many are focusing on?

I do find it Ironic the only group that isn't judged by past sins (and its not even that long ago) in the Mainstream are the Democrat Party and its obvious KKK, Jim Crow Past?? I often wonder why that is never pushed in a blaming mentality? Very Curious indeed?
Exactly. An evolutionist might be tempted to hold the dominant trait species accountable for the demise of those with less desirable traits. The faster prey heartlessly let the slower prey be caught and consumed. Justice for the giant sloth!
 
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86PSUPaul

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i'm not sure what you're getting at in this incoherent word jumble. this is just arithmetic. if you gathered a random sample of 6,500 people and they all had a 0.04% chance of dying, a couple of them would. if you divide that 0.04% by 53, then that number is 53 times lower. idk how simpler to say that.

i said it was an illustration, but i guess i didn't expect you to need me to draw it out in crayon.
But you are drawing causation, if you get the shot you will this, but that might not be the undelying reason. I guess you cant think beyond crayons. Also are the deaths mostly with an earlier variant versus now people surviving with a shot and omicron? So you say it is better because of the shot, when it might not be. It is not just math if drawing a causation. Clear enough for you?
 

crablegs1

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But you are drawing causation, if you get the shot you will this, but that might not be the undelying reason. I guess you cant think beyond crayons. Also are the deaths mostly with an earlier variant versus now people surviving with a shot and omicron? So you say it is better because of the shot, when it might not be. It is not just math if drawing a causation. Clear enough for you?
You understand that we know how this vaccine works right? We know that the vaccine boosts antibodies, and we also know that having the antibodies helps to fight covid 19. Then we have the real world data showing that if you’re unvaccinated you’re outcomes are on average significantly worse. It’s not a mystery.
 

86PSUPaul

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But you understand that at 18-29 years old the math says that you are 53 time more likely but that might not all be attributed to just the vaccine unless all other variables are isolated.
Even the CDC director said they do not know who died from covid versus just with covid, but those death figures are being used as math to calculate the effectiveness of the shot.
 

manmythlegend1

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What part exactly is confusing? That the U.S actually did participate in Atrocities? that the Spanish conquistadors and native American populations have also? Or is it you never got the memo on the Democrats being the party of KKK and Jim Crow?? or that we really should not dwell on it anymore and move on in Unison for the betterment of humanity because non of us participated in any of it?????
 

crablegs1

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What part exactly is confusing? That the U.S actually did participate in Atrocities? that the Spanish conquistadors and native American populations have also? Or is it you never got the memo on the Democrats being the party of KKK and Jim Crow?? or that we really should not dwell on it anymore and move on in Unison for the betterment of humanity because non of us participated in any of it?????
The part where you brought all of this up out of no where is confusing. So is your insistence that current populations are being blamed for some of these atrocities.
 

psumacw

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Sep 18, 2017
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But you understand that at 18-29 years old the math says that you are 53 time more likely but that might not all be attributed to just the vaccine unless all other variables are isolated.
Even the CDC director said they do not know who died from covid versus just with covid, but those death figures are being used as math to calculate the effectiveness of the shot.

is there any reason to believe the demographics of each group would differ significantly? i guess those with comorbidities would be more likely to be vaccinated, so that group would have a higher baseline mortality, making the vaccine EVEN MORE effective.

although now that i think about it, the unvaccinated tend to be republicans and republicans tend to have lower education levels and lower education levels tend to have lower incomes and lower incomes tend to have higher mortality. but all in all, i'd expect the base mortality rates to be pretty similar given the sample sizes of each cohort.
 

86PSUPaul

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is there any reason to believe the demographics of each group would differ significantly? i guess those with comorbidities would be more likely to be vaccinated, so that group would have a higher baseline mortality, making the vaccine EVEN MORE effective.

although now that i think about it, the unvaccinated tend to be republicans and republicans tend to have lower education levels and lower education levels tend to have lower incomes and lower incomes tend to have higher mortality. but all in all, i'd expect the base mortality rates to be pretty similar given the sample sizes of each cohort.
Actually male republicans skew higher for college education over male democrats. Female are the opposite, according to Pew Research. So I do not think your point is valid. As most of yours aren’t.

and FYI, my wildly liberal brother living in CA is much more anti vax than I am, and for demographic purposes I am a PA Republican with a degree in Economics as well as my MBA.
 

1032004

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But you understand that at 18-29 years old the math says that you are 53 time more likely but that might not all be attributed to just the vaccine unless all other variables are isolated.
Even the CDC director said they do not know who died from covid versus just with covid, but those death figures are being used as math to calculate the effectiveness of the shot.
Yes we do, not sure why she didn’t know that. CDC tracks both “with Covid” deaths and deaths where Covid is the underlying cause. Covid is the underlying cause in 90%+ of “with Covid” deaths.
 

crablegs1

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Actually male republicans skew higher for college education over male democrats. Female are the opposite, according to Pew Research. So I do not think your point is valid. As most of yours aren’t.

I’m not sure if what you say here is true or not, but that doesn’t really change the point. It is 100% true that republicans are less educated than democrats, by a significant margin.