COVID gratuitous dumpster fire thread

WEAREPSU_LI

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Feb 15, 2019
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I'm pro choice and I understand their point of view, but I'm super bummed by all of this. They're vaccinated ten fold already, but this is the stand they take? I sincerely hope that they don't get covid and they are healthy going forward. I'm glad they are going about it in a pretty healthy way about it, I guess. I'm just struggling with the fact that this was only created because of the covid vaccine. Why not before when they were mandated to get the myriad vaccines they've already received.

 

crablegs1

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Feb 27, 2009
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I'm pro choice and I understand their point of view, but I'm super bummed by all of this. They're vaccinated ten fold already, but this is the stand they take? I sincerely hope that they don't get covid and they are healthy going forward. I'm glad they are going about it in a pretty healthy way about it, I guess. I'm just struggling with the fact that this was only created because of the covid vaccine. Why not before when they were mandated to get the myriad vaccines they've already received.

Why not before covid? Because it is a political stance and nothing more.
 

El-Jefe

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Jul 27, 2012
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I'm pro choice and I understand their point of view, but I'm super bummed by all of this. They're vaccinated ten fold already, but this is the stand they take? I sincerely hope that they don't get covid and they are healthy going forward. I'm glad they are going about it in a pretty healthy way about it, I guess. I'm just struggling with the fact that this was only created because of the covid vaccine. Why not before when they were mandated to get the myriad vaccines they've already received.

Just look at what NYC is doing to its wrestlers: it's not enough for all of them to be vaccinated -- they cannot compete at any event without 100% vaccination, including NY States.

NYC to Beat the Streets kids looking to impress college coaches: pound sand.

 

js8793

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Yeah, this. And how do we know that these guys are vaccinated?
i think he was referring to the tons of other vaccines 99% of americans receive to attend public schools.

it’s absolutely a politicized thing at this point. you likely won’t see any of these guys rallying to protest the reduction of abortion rights in the name of bodily autonomy even though it’s the same principle. internally coherent political beliefs are pretty rare for anybody. life is messy and full of contradictions. it is what it is.
 
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El-Jefe

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i think he was referring to the tons of other vaccines 99% of americans receive to attend public schools.

it’s absolutely a politicized thing at this point. you likely won’t see any of these guys rallying to protest the reduction of abortion rights in the name of bodily autonomy even though it’s the same principle. internally coherent political beliefs are pretty rare for anybody. life is messy and full of contradictions. it is what it is.
Please name the jurisdiction forcing athletes to have abortions. Not the same thing.
 

js8793

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Please name the jurisdiction forcing athletes to have abortions. Not the same thing.
i think you misunderstood lol

their argument is that they should have the medical freedom to make the choice for themselves. nobody is forcing anybody to have an abortion, but many lawmakers are trying to remove women’s right to make that medical choice for themselves, just like vaccine mandates remove the choice people make for themselves on getting vaxxed.

it’s the exact same principle: body autonomy. you kind of demonstrated the point actually. people come to hold a set of beliefs with little attention paid to the principles that undergird those beliefs which result in them often holding completely contradictory beliefs.

many who believe in absolute bodily autonomy when it comes to vaccines don’t believe in that same principle at all when it comes to abortion. and vice versa.
 

Sportfan2017

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Every state in this country has had vaccine mandates for DECADES. Students must show proof of vaccination for at least a dozen diseases to attend public schools. Now we had a President who did very little to stem the early onslaught of a serious disease. Since doing pretty much nothing was his MO.......it became politically important ( He thought) to then downplay the disease and all the things he could have done rather than just admit he was wrong. His pushed aside and questioned his own health experts. Then his political pundits did his bidding....spreading misinformation and mistruths and most of his supporters did as well......and many still do. Accepting vaccine mandates and/or the recommendations of health experts for decades until some politician determined it was a necessary political litmus test to benefit his re-election is what brought us here. Period
 
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El-Jefe

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Please name the jurisdiction forcing *anyone* to get a COVID vaccine. Even the military doesn't and cannot force service members to get vaccinated. They can leave, without a dishonorable discharge.
New York City. It's a condition for employment, for doing anything indoors aside from one's own private residence, and now for non-NYC athletes competing at events with NYC athletes.

To argue that it's not being forced is disingenuous Get a shot or lose your job = compulsion.
 

El-Jefe

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i think you misunderstood lol

their argument is that they should have the medical freedom to make the choice for themselves. nobody is forcing anybody to have an abortion, but many lawmakers are trying to remove women’s right to make that medical choice for themselves, just like vaccine mandates remove the choice people make for themselves on getting vaxxed.

it’s the exact same principle: body autonomy. you kind of demonstrated the point actually. people come to hold a set of beliefs with little attention paid to the principles that undergird those beliefs which result in them often holding completely contradictory beliefs.

many who believe in absolute bodily autonomy when it comes to vaccines don’t believe in that same principle at all when it comes to abortion. and vice versa.
I fully understood. The comparison would be a denial of treatment after diagnosis.

In any case, those who support vaccine mandates therefore also support NYC's policy noted in the Reason article above.
 
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El-Jefe

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Every state in this country has had vaccine mandates for DECADES. Students must show proof of vaccination for at least a dozen diseases to attend public schools. Now we had a President who did very little to stem the early onslaught of a serious disease. Since doing pretty much nothing was his MO.......it became politically important ( He thought) to then downplay the disease and all the things he could have done rather than just admit he was wrong. His pushed aside and questioned his own health experts. Then his political pundits did his bidding....spreading misinformation and mistruths and most of his supporters did as well......and many still do. Accepting vaccine mandates for decades until some politician determined it was a necessary political litmus test to benefit his re-election is what brought us here. Period
That's nonsense and you know it. The vaccines were not formally approved until well after the 2021 inauguration. Prior to that, they were approved for emergency purposes only.

Go ahead and name the vaccines that were mandated prior to full approval.
 
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dmm53

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That's nonsense and you know it. The vaccines were not formally approved until well after the 2020 election. Prior to the election they were approved for emergency purposes only.

Go ahead and name the vaccines that were mandated prior to full approval.
At Penn State, measles, mumps and rubella have all been mandated for a long time. Same at many other universities in many other states. The original post could be amended and clarified to say that. The rest of his post about the prior administration, its mandarins, and its propagandists in the media is accurate. In general, they pursue a disingenuous, hypocritical, and anti-scientific strategy of decrying mandates, questioning or criticizing vaccines and masking, and then blaming the current administration at the same time for the spread of the virus.

 
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Sportfan2017

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That's nonsense and you know it. The vaccines were not formally approved until well after the 2021 inauguration. Prior to that, they were approved for emergency purposes only.

Go ahead and name the vaccines that were mandated prior to full approval.
My post was about the downplaying of the disease and ignoring/disputing health experts recommendations which led to the politicising of a health crisis. That polarized behavior...almost entirely along political lines continued after the election into the vaccine debate and continues to this day. The seeds were planted well before the election but the branches have continued to exist to this day. I rephrased my post to better reflect it's intent. Appreciate the call-out ( seriously). What my brain "writes" and how it is perceived don't always match how I envisioned it.
 

1AA

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Getting nervous about how this is going to impact the rest of the season. What's everyone's thoughts?
 

El-Jefe

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At Penn State, measles, mumps and rubella have all been mandated for a long time. Same at many other universities in many other states. The original post could be amended and clarified to say that. The rest of his post about the prior administration, its mandarins, and its propagandists in the media is accurate. In general, they pursue a disingenuous, hypocritical, and anti-scientific strategy of decrying mandates, questioning or criticizing vaccines and masking, and then blaming the current administration at the same time for the spread of the virus.

If you wish to be non-partisan, then you would point out all of the anti-vaccine and anti-crowd containment remarks and policies by the other side last year. There are tons to choose from -- politicians who said they wouldn't take it, others who said they couldn't imagine who would be first, others who held major events with concentrated crowds despite all of the obvious signs.

With very few exceptions, both parties switched sides after the election and have proven themselves unfit and unserious, and have earned the disregard they've received,
 

WEAREPSU_LI

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I'm hoping it becomes moot and omnicron or whatever it's called is less severe. At the very least the vaccines have been successful in saving lives from severe covid. If these athletes think they can risk it then good for them. I think this will turn political be it their decision or not. Science is pretty clearly not on their side, but it is what it is. I'm hoping we are able to move past this within the next year because the real worst of us has come out. It's an us versus them when we really should be trying to lessen the number of deaths as a whole. This is entirely too me me me, but that's what our society values.
 

Lyons212

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That's nonsense and you know it. The vaccines were not formally approved until well after the 2021 inauguration. Prior to that, they were approved for emergency purposes only.

Go ahead and name the vaccines that were mandated prior to full approval.
There is this little tidbit too that is over looked. Of the Covid vaccines, only Pfizer's Comarity is fully approved by the FDA/CDC. Comarity is not available in the USA. People are being compelled to take an EUA vaccine or lose their job. A US District judge noted this issue in a case regarding the vaccine and the military.

In the last few days, one of those EUA vaccines, J&J, the CDC/FDA are advising against people using it for potential blood clots and lack of effectivenss. This was also an issue back in April when it's EUA was put on hold and then given the seal of approval once again. Reuters (Mainstream media outlet) had a story yesterday about the potential cardiac problem caused by the Moderna shot, deeming that Pfizer is safer. Let alone the fact that many European countries have banned the use of Moderna in those under 30, and a few banning it altogether (I believe Iceland).

Pfizer and Moderna are the same technology, key difference is the dosage.

Then there is the fact that the NFL (95%), NBA (97%) and NHL (99%) vaccinated are all currently cancelling games. All this get vaccinated and you will not get Covid has been a lie the entire time. Israel is close to requiring a 4th Pfizer shot to be fully vaccinated. I guess the booster did not work too well over there (they are about 6 to 8 weeks ahead of us in Covid progression).
 

Lyons212

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I'm hoping it becomes moot and omnicron or whatever it's called is less severe. At the very least the vaccines have been successful in saving lives from severe covid. If these athletes think they can risk it then good for them. I think this will turn political be it their decision or not. Science is pretty clearly not on their side, but it is what it is. I'm hoping we are able to move past this within the next year because the real worst of us has come out. It's an us versus them when we really should be trying to lessen the number of deaths as a whole. This is entirely too me me me, but that's what our society values.
The virus is endemic in society, it is not going away. We as a society need to acknowledge that fact and learn to live with it. Actually corona virus typically go in 4 year cycles, we are in year #2. Given that the surival rate is well over 99%, living with it is the correct approach. If you have underlying health conditions, then you should take precautions or do what you can to improve your health. Everyone should be doing what they can to boost their immune system. Good advice for any medical conditions.

The health experts thinking they could stop an aerosolized respiratory virus with an additional fecal-oral transmission component was not realistic. That needs to be acknowledged. Regarding the fecal component, Orange County Florida has determined that Omicron is the dominate strain by testing their waste water. If you get shyte it out certainly it can be spread by people not washing their hands.

Virus is going to Virus, always has, always will. The time you realize you have a problem it is already too late. We now know that Covid was in the USA in the fall of 2019 (waste water samples, blood banks).
 

NittanyChris

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The choice argument is ludicrous. It’s a completely irrelevant argument. It fails to become a personal choice when your action jeopardizes the safety of others. A woman choosing to get an abortion does not place me at risk of getting a life threatening illness.

These idiots who fail to get vaccinated are the main reason we’re not through this pandemic by now. Unvaccinated people are one of the main causes all these variants are being created.

Vaccines have been mandated in many situations for decades. How many vaccinations do you need to get in the military? Answer? 17 BEFORE the new COVID vaccine mandate.

These people need to stop getting their medical advice from idiots like Sean Hannity, who is vaccinated by the way, and get informed with real medical knowledge.

This is a a public health issue that should NEVER have been made political. Guess who made it that way?

This is my final post on this topic. I’m sick of this ****. Get ******* vaccinated.
 

Creek Side

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Jan 20, 2016
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The choice argument is ludicrous. It’s a completely irrelevant argument. It fails to become a personal choice when your action jeopardizes the safety of others. A woman choosing to get an abortion does not place me at risk of getting a life threatening illness.

These idiots who fail to get vaccinated are the main reason we’re not through this pandemic by now. Unvaccinated people are one of the main causes all these variants are being created.

Vaccines have been mandated in many situations for decades. How many vaccinations do you need to get in the military? Answer? 17 BEFORE the new COVID vaccine mandate.

These people need to stop getting their medical advice from idiots like Sean Hannity, who is vaccinated by the way, and get informed with real medical knowledge.

This is a a public health issue that should NEVER have been made political. Guess who made it that way?

This is my final post on this topic. I’m sick of this ****. Get ******* vaccinated.
A lot of your statement is emotional opinion and not factual. 😞 sorry.
 

Lyons212

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Mar 9, 2017
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The choice argument is ludicrous. It’s a completely irrelevant argument. It fails to become a personal choice when your action jeopardizes the safety of others. A woman choosing to get an abortion does not place me at risk of getting a life threatening illness.

These idiots who fail to get vaccinated are the main reason we’re not through this pandemic by now. Unvaccinated people are one of the main causes all these variants are being created.

Vaccines have been mandated in many situations for decades. How many vaccinations do you need to get in the military? Answer? 17 BEFORE the new COVID vaccine mandate.

These people need to stop getting their medical advice from idiots like Sean Hannity, who is vaccinated by the way, and get informed with real medical knowledge.

This is a a public health issue that should NEVER have been made political. Guess who made it that way?

This is my final post on this topic. I’m sick of this ****. Get ******* vaccinated.
If you are vaccinated and it works, then you should be protected? Correct? My vaccination status should not impact you since your vaccination works or it doesn't. Since I have had the measels and polio vaccines, I am not worried about being around people who have not had those vaccines because mine works.

The winter professional sports leagues are all at 95% vaccinated or above and they are currently cancelling games because of Covid outbreaks.

Stop telling me to get a vaccination that does not work to make you feel better. The experts are saying that it does not prevent you from getting or spreading Covid, it should protect you from severe outcomes (that is debatable too).

Maybe the problem here is the simple fact that this was rushed to the market with insufficient testing. Earlier this year the vaccine was given credit for stopping Covid when in reality it was actually seasonality which stopped Covid. People are desperate to not have to admit they got suckered into taking it.

We now know that the vaccine only gives you protection for 2 to 3 months, which means you would need 4 to 6 boosters a year to be protected. That would be taking a booster than is always several virus variations behind. This is why the Covid vaccination will never work. Vaccines do not work for quickly mutating viruses. Take a look at the Flu shot.
 

crablegs1

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Feb 27, 2009
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Stop telling me to get a vaccination that does not work to make you feel better. The experts are saying that it does not prevent you from getting or spreading Covid, it should protect you from severe outcomes (that is debatable too).
I’d be interested in learning more about this debate if you could share.
 

manmythlegend1

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I’d be interested in learning more about this debate if you could share.
Maybe the "Debate" is about 18-23 years olds (and Kem) who are very high health athletes and how forcing them to take the vaccine actually helps them from a severe covid outcome? or if the Vaccine posses a bigger threat to that Demographic?

All I know is when my right Knee swelled up to twice its size after the second Pfizer shot, and I went to the ER without having injured it or any history of knee Issues. The receptionist, Nurse, and Doctor all were very short and annoyed with me that I would even bring up that maybe it was an adverse reaction to the Vaccine. I mean it Can't be, According to the "Experts" , They may be right, but how am I supposed to trust the reports on side effects when I know for a Fact, my potential one was dismissed and never reported and I was scolded for the Question?

thankfully after they removed the liquid and 2 months of very swollen and annoying knee issues it went away and hopefully I will live the rest of my life without Knee problems as I did before that incident? The Side effect itself is not nearly as big an issue to me as the Obvious disregard that the vaccine may be the reason?

Just my Personal Experience? It made it political to me much more after than before that visit?
 

js8793

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Dec 4, 2018
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I fully understood. The comparison would be a denial of treatment after diagnosis.

In any case, those who support vaccine mandates therefore also support NYC's policy noted in the Reason article above.
i appreciate you providing an example of my point in real time lol
 

GogglesPaizano

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Feb 6, 2018
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"These idiots who fail to get vaccinated are the main reason we’re not through this pandemic by now." In a word, Sad.

Never in human history has a 'protected' populace felt so helpless and unprotected.

The more Vaxed people that test positive, the more they blame the dwindling population of unvaxed. Some day when they run out of people to blame, there may be an epifony, then again I doubt it.

The contradiction slaps them in the face every time they express outrage yet they see it not.

The vaxed can get covid, get sick from covid, transmit covid and die from covid. I have been Vaxed and know those truths. I have no desire to force the vaccine on anyone.

If you had a magic wand and could vax the whole world, please tell me you see that covid remains with us, likely forever, until effective treatments result in calming the hysterical.

There is an explanation - Isaiah 44:18
 

Ski

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Why not before covid? Because it is a political stance and nothing more.

Except for J&J, these vaccines are unlike the vaccines before Covid in that they use mRNA. These are not the same vaccines with the same risks, nor is there a proven track record of their use or any long term study of their overall, long term effects. Knowing this, the athletes want to gauge their own risks, probably along with their doctor, and make an informed decision based on their specific factors. Seems reasonable in America.
 
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crablegs1

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Except for J&J, these vaccines are unlike the vaccines before Covid in that they use mRNA. These are not the same vaccines with the same risks, nor is there a proven track record of their use or any long term study of their overall, long term effects. Knowing this, the athletes want to gauge their own risks, probably along with their doctor, and make an informed decision based on their specific factors. Seems reasonable in America.
I asked a very specific question about the claim that there is debate over the vaccine effectiveness at preventing severe outcomes. If you don’t have information in response to my question, why respond to my question to go on a diatribe about something else?
 

crablegs1

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Feb 27, 2009
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Maybe the "Debate" is about 18-23 years olds (and Kem) who are very high health athletes and how forcing them to take the vaccine actually helps them from a severe covid outcome? or if the Vaccine posses a bigger threat to that Demographic?

All I know is when my right Knee swelled up to twice its size after the second Pfizer shot, and I went to the ER without having injured it or any history of knee Issues. The receptionist, Nurse, and Doctor all were very short and annoyed with me that I would even bring up that maybe it was an adverse reaction to the Vaccine. I mean it Can't be, According to the "Experts" , They may be right, but how am I supposed to trust the reports on side effects when I know for a Fact, my potential one was dismissed and never reported and I was scolded for the Question?

thankfully after they removed the liquid and 2 months of very swollen and annoying knee issues it went away and hopefully I will live the rest of my life without Knee problems as I did before that incident? The Side effect itself is not nearly as big an issue to me as the Obvious disregard that the vaccine may be the reason?

Just my Personal Experience? It made it political to me much more after than before that visit?
I asked a very specific question about the claim that there is debate over the vaccine effectiveness at preventing severe outcomes. If you don’t have information in response to my question, why respond to my question to go on a diatribe about something else?
 

dmm53

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Feb 4, 2017
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If you wish to be non-partisan, then you would point out all of the anti-vaccine and anti-crowd containment remarks and policies by the other side last year. There are tons to choose from -- politicians who said they wouldn't take it, others who said they couldn't imagine who would be first, others who held major events with concentrated crowds despite all of the obvious signs.

With very few exceptions, both parties switched sides after the election and have proven themselves unfit and unserious, and have earned the disregard they've received,
It's absolutely not something where fault is due equally on both (or all) sides. One major party throughout the U.S, in general has been patently opposed to the vaccine and masking while spreading disinformation and downplaying the seriousness of the public health threat. That is a truth you cannot spin with a straight face.
 
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Ski

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I asked a very specific question about the claim that there is debate over the vaccine effectiveness at preventing severe outcomes. If you don’t have information in response to my question, why respond to my question to go on a diatribe about something else?

"Why not before covid? Because it is a political stance and nothing more."

Where is the very specific question there? Point it out to me.

If there was a question there it has no impact on the logic that was used by the athletes to make their decision, which is more in line with what I posted. What you asked or did not ask about affects their logic nil, nada, zilch.
 

js8793

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It's absolutely not something where fault is due equally on both (or all) sides. One major party throughout the U.S, in general has been patently opposed to the vaccine and masking while spreading disinformation and downplaying the seriousness of the public health threat. That is a truth you cannot spin with a straight face.
yeah it seems a bit disingenuous to draw an equivalency between a couple democrats showing skepticism 6 months before the vax came out to an entire right wing media ecosystem committed to downplaying covid and opposing the vaccine for nearly the last year. doesn’t excuse the former, but let’s not get carried away.

to put it another way, aaron brooks and abe assad have hit some really nice single legs in their careers. nobody here would pretend that they’re on the same level offensively.
 
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js8793

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"Why not before covid? Because it is a political stance and nothing more."

Where is the very specific question there? Point it out to me.

If there was a question there it has no impact on the logic that was used by the athletes to make their decision, which is more in line with what I posted. What you asked or did not ask about affects their logic nil, nada, zilch.
that’s not the question he asked. wrong post.
 

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