Corey Bolds transferring

[GregInPitt]

It seems like an issue with him being buried on the depth chart with Franklin bringing in even more talent this year at the position.

I agree in the case of Bolds, as he is transferring after just one year (a redshirt year) in the program. Seems he can already see the competition in front of him, the two redshirt SO's that played a little last year, the 2 other great prospects in his class, the 3 DT's in the 2018 class, and obviously the fact that CJF will continue to bring in top talent. Who really knows about the timing either, as he like all the players has just had his post Spring practice talk with CJF and he now knows where he is on CJF's depth chart..... as well as the fact that the academic semester just ended and he can now transfer and get started both academically and athletically at a new home.

I just wish Mr. Bolds the best both academically and in his quest for a great fit for him athletically.

But regarding CJF's management of the 85 scholarships, he seems to be doing a great job at it. Every coach knows that there will be players that leave. For all we know CJF and Bolds talked about his situation on the depth chart during his post 2017 season player/CJF conference. Bolds may have told CJF that he (Bolds) would give it his all in Spring practice to try and get to a position on the depth chart where he would be in the rotation for 2018 and if not he would be transferring. Who knows.

But like others have stated, CJF is not out there signing 28-30 each year and then cutting down after Spring practice based on the incoming recruits that qualify academically out of the LOI's from February..... that is "processing". But I believe CJF is "managing".........

 

[Lion8286]

The program was committed to 86 scholarships for the 2018-2019 year before this. They can only have 85 guys on scholarship. Before Martin left it was 87. Obviously you have do to SOMETHING to get down to 85 and if you think they just believe it'll work itself out I don't think you know enough about James Franklin. He's not going to leave anything to chance, and it would be one hell of a coincidence if every year they luckily make it down to the 85 because they are above it after early enrollees/incoming freshman every year.

Like I said, people can call it whatever they want, but when CJF has his sit down with every player like he did recently there are guys who he has to have a tough conversation with. All of the signs point to Martin and Bolds being two kids he had to have tough conversations with this time.

You don't know what exactly happened with Bolds, Martin, or any other player that leaves the program. What are you going to say if/when another player leaves and they are down to 84 or less (which has happened several times before)? You need to just admit that you are just guessing the same as the rest of us and move on.

 

[bdgan]

You don't know what exactly happened with Bolds, Martin, or any other player that leaves the program. What are you going to say if/when another player leaves and they are down to 84 or less (which has happened several times before)? You need to just admit that you are just guessing the same as the rest of us and move on.

You are 100% correct that we don't know exactly what happened to Bolds and Martin. That said, you didn't respond to jrd23's statement "He (Franklin) doesn't bring in more guys than he has scholarships for and then hopes it all works out".

 

[jrd23psu]

You don't know what exactly happened with Bolds, Martin, or any other player that leaves the program. What are you going to say if/when another player leaves and they are down to 84 or less (which has happened several times before)? You need to just admit that you are just guessing the same as the rest of us and move on.

What if Martin and Bolds decided to stay, along with everyone else currently on the roster? What then? What do they do about being committed to 87 scholarships? One answer is that Franklin brings in more guys than they have scholarships for and hopes it works out. Do you think that is a strategy James Franklin would go with?

What happens if they have 87 guys committed to scholarships in 208-2019? What do they do?

 

[interrobang]

We have no idea of Bolds was "processed" or if Bolds wasn't holding up his end of the deal or if Bolds simply decided he wanted something different.

 

[Lion8286]

What if Martin and Bolds decided to stay, along with everyone else currently on the roster? What then? What do they do about being committed to 87 scholarships? One answer is that Franklin brings in more guys than they have scholarships for and hopes it works out. Do you think that is a strategy James Franklin would go with?

What happens if they have 87 guys committed to scholarships in 208-2019? What do they do?

Have you heard Franklin address this exact matter? He did this very early on in his tenure at PSU.

Again, you do not know Martin or Bolds and I doubt Franklin has spoken to you about the situation. Stop pretending you know more than anyone else, because you don't.

 

[bdgan]

Third, kids have to commit for four years. The school's commitment is only one year.

The Big Ten said scholarships won’t be reduced or cancelled as long as an athlete "remains a member in good standing with the community, the university and the athletics department." The Big Ten also said it would guarantee an athlete may return to school at any time on an athletic scholarship if the athlete’s pursuit for an undergraduate degree is "interrupted for a bona fide reason."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...t-major-conference-to-guarantee-scholarships/

Does this mean that a player can be removed from the team (not count against the 85 max) as long as PSU continues to honor their scholarship?

 

[bmw199]

Did Franklin know already that Martin had lost his love of football and that Bolds wasn't going to stay at PSU, whatever the reason. Maybe he did. Which means this isn't processing at all. Both what the process accusers in this thread are suggesting and what I just said are just as likely without internal knowledge of the situations.

How do you explain that every year they get down to the 85 limit then?

Pretty sure I already answered that.

 

[WPB_lion]

Yes. At Penn State all these kids ask for transfers because, in the end they seek a different opportunity.

At Alabama, they are just told to leave.

Completely different.

LdN

While the conversations may or may not different, I am pretty sure that you are not privy to either team's communications with the players to determine exactly what the differences are. I would hope that when a player is recruited at a University that processes players, the University is up front during recruitment about the method the team uses to process players. I suspect that there is little said because it is not a positive recruiting tool. No matter how you frame it, processing is an ugly practice that will continue with teams that want to win on a consistent basis until the NCAA disallows the practice.

As fans, we often forget that these players being processed are 19-22 year old human beings whose lives are being uprooted in a major way when they are persuaded to transfer. Think about if this were your kid who is loving his life at a college, making friends and doing everything that is asked of him and, through no fault of his own, is being persuaded to leave the school by the people who talked him into coming in the first place. It is ugly and there is really no way to sugar coat it.

 

[jrd23psu]

Have you heard Franklin address this exact matter? He did this very early on in his tenure at PSU.

Again, you do not know Martin or Bolds and I doubt Franklin has spoken to you about the situation. Stop pretending you know more than anyone else, because you don't.

You won't answer my question because you don't want to have to admit that if they are over 85 someone is losing their scholarship. You cannot have more than 85 kids on scholarship.

If Franklin explained this exact scenario I'm talking about, then why not just tell me what he said? Just tell me.

 

[bdgan]

As fans, we often forget that these players are 19-20 year old human beings whose lives are being uprooted in a major way when they are persuaded to transfer. Think about if this were your kid who is loving his life at a college, making friends and doing everything that is asked of him and, through no fault of his own, is being persuaded to leave the school by the people who talked him into coming in the first place. It is ugly and there is really no way to sugar coat it.

Kids who earn academic scholarships must maintain a certain GPA in order to get them renewed. What's the difference?

It sounds like BiG scholarship athletes can keep their scholarships. I assume they leave because they want to play.

 

[WPB_lion]

23 is "all the guys you can"?

That is where I get hung up on this. If you're gonna go the processing route full stop, why not bring in 25 or 28?

Also, we've only had, I think, one player sign an injury scholarship offer in the Franklin era. That is a staple of processing teams. So again, it doesn't really align with the picture some are painting. I am not saying we won't process or that we're above it. I am saying the facts don't squarely point to it the way some suggest.

I am pretty sure that teams which list more than 25 recruits include non-qualifiers and players who simply aren't really getting scholarships during the Fall season. Otherwise the team would be breaking NCAA rules. Thus, processing does not really occur for the foregoing recruits until they receive a scholarship but then they count against the 25 recruits per year that teams are allowed to sign.

 

[interrobang]

Does this mean that a player can be removed from the team (not count against the 85 max) as long as PSU continues to honor their scholarship?

Yes. Archie Miller tried to do that with a player when he took the Indiana job.

https://thebiglead.com/2017/08/20/did-indiana-screw-over-this-backup-basketball-player/

 

[jrd23psu]

Pretty sure I already answered that.

What happens if the program is committed to 87 scholarships going into 2018-2019? Nobody seems to want to answer this, and if you have, just tell me again. It's easy. Just tell me.

If Martin and Bolds had both decided to stay, along with everybody else. When the fall semester comes, what does Franklin do?

If you don't answer it this time I will understand why. It will be because you don't want to say what we know would have to happen.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

I don't understand why it's so hard to comprehend what happens during the conversation.

"Son, you've done a great job in the program. If you want to play football, I do not see a chance for you to do so at Penn State. If you decide to transfer, I will approve it."

 

[Colorado Man]

The cruiseliners are already welcoming home a New Jersey boy who should never have left for the Evil Empire.

 

[WPB_lion]

Kids who earn academic scholarships must maintain a certain GPA in order to get them renewed. What's the difference?

It sounds like BiG scholarship athletes can keep their scholarships. I assume they leave because they want to play.

Once again, I am qualifying that the student athlete is doing everything that is asked of them. GPA is a quantifiable, objective pre-requisite that the student knows going in they have to satisfy pursuant to the terms of their scholarship. I have no problem placing such quantifiable, objective pre-requisites in any scholarship so the student knows going in what they have to do to maintain the scholarship.

 

[GregInPitt]

You won't answer my question because you don't want to have to admit that if they are over 85 someone is losing their scholarship. You cannot have more than 85 kids on scholarship.

If Franklin explained this exact scenario I'm talking about, then why not just tell me what he said? Just tell me.

I'm not looking to get in the middle of a cat fight, but another way that a coach can manage scholarships against the limit is via the scholarships he gives to former Walk On players. It has been said that those scholarships are on a year to year basis. So that if it is needed (less scholarships players leave than what would get the team to 85) it is not renewed.

With the high level of interest in PSU from top recruits there will likely be less scholarships available to Walk On's during the remainder of CJF's tenure at PSU, but this still can come into play.

Obviously it's just math, but there are many factors and each player situation can be different. That's why CJF has someone additionally to help manage just the scholarship numbers issue, in addition to the obvious plan CJF and his staff have for each position that is updated on an ongoing basis....

 

[jrd23psu]

I'm not looking to get in the middle of a cat fight, but another way that a coach can manage scholarships against the limit is via the scholarships he gives to former Walk On players. It has been said that those scholarships are on a year to year basis. So that if it is needed (less scholarships players leave than what would get the team to 85) it is not renews.

With the high level of interest in PSU from top recruits there will likely be less scholarships available to Walk On's during the remainder of CJF's tenure at PSU, but this still can come into play.

Obviously it's just math, but there are many factors and each player situation can be different. That's why CJF has someone additionally to help manage just the scholarship numbers issue, in addition to the obvious plan CJF and his staff have for each position that is updated on an ongoing basis....

This IS another answer. One thing I'd like to know is whether or not Franklin counts those walk-ons towards the 85 limit when he signs a class, or if he counts them as free scholarships to give out to an incoming class since they would free up for the summer/fall.

If they are only one year scholarships that are given out in the fall after everybody is accounted for, and I had to venture a guess as to how Franklin counts them, I'd guess that he counts them as free scholarships he can use for the incoming class since they are only one year scholarships unless a kid is told otherwise.

 

[mcgunns]

I bet we get down to like 83 by the time fall rolls around. Plenty of very innocent attrition happens at every program. Like when that LB I think his name was Reeder took off for Delaware even though he was probably going to start. Any hope of manny Bowen coming back?

 

[bdgan]

Once again, I am qualifying that the student athlete is doing everything that is asked of them. GPA is a quantifiable, objective pre-requisite that the student knows going in they have to satisfy pursuant to the terms of their scholarship. I have no problem placing such quantifiable, objective pre-requisites in any scholarship so the student knows going in what they have to do to maintain the scholarship.

The athletic scholarship might not be meeting expectations on the field just like the academic scholarship might not be meeting expectations in the classroom. Seems similar to me.

I think we would both agree that the individual receiving the scholarship should understand the terms from the beginning.

 

[bdgan]

This IS another answer. One thing I'd like to know is whether or not Franklin counts those walk-ons towards the 85 limit when he signs a class, or if he counts them as free scholarships to give out to an incoming class since they would free up for the summer/fall.

If they are only one year scholarships that are given out in the fall after everybody is accounted for, and I had to venture a guess as to how Franklin counts them, I'd guess that he counts them as free scholarships he can use for the incoming class since they are only one year scholarships unless a kid is told otherwise.

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask "how Franklin counts them". 85 is the number and Franklin will use all of them. If he winds up at 84 he will reward a walkon with a one year deal.

 

[bmw199]

What happens if the program is committed to 87 scholarships going into 2018-2019? Nobody seems to want to answer this, and if you have, just tell me again. It's easy. Just tell me.

If Martin and Bolds had both decided to stay, along with everybody else. When the fall semester comes, what does Franklin do?

If you don't answer it this time I will understand why. It will be because you don't want to say what we know would have to happen.

DUDE I answered it. I am positing that Franklin could have known back in February where these two players stood and they could have also known. Just because you didn't doesnt mean this was processing. You're making my point for me, we were never committed truly to 87 players.

 

[bmw199]

Any hope of manny Bowen coming back?

Probably not in 2018. I wouldn't lose hope for 2019.

 

[jrd23psu]

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask "how Franklin counts them". 85 is the number and Franklin will use all of them. If he winds up at 84 he will reward a walkon with a one year deal.

Right. I understand that. When the fall rolls around, let's say after all is accounted for the program is at 83 scholarships. So, he awards two walk-on guys a 2018-2019 scholarship so that the program is at a full 85. When they are figuring out how many guys they can recruit in the 2019 class is Franklin counting those two scholarships he gave to the walk-on players as available for the 2019-2020 season or not? I ask because those walk-on players were only guaranteed a scholarship for the 2018-2019 year. I ask because that would be two more scholarships towards the 2019 class. If he doesn't count those as ships he can give out in the 2019 class, then if they are at 87 scholarships after the class signs in February Franklin knows that two will be coming off the books after the spring semester.

If that makes sense.

 

[jrd23psu]

DUDE I answered it. I am positing that Franklin could have known back in February where these two players stood and they could have also known. Just because you didn't doesnt mean this was processing. You're making my point for me, we were never committed truly to 87 players.

Would you like to apply your own logic to your own assertions?

And even if Franklin did know, and they did tell him, they could have changed their minds and decided to stay. Do you think Franklin operates based on maybes? I don't think he does. Do you think CJF takes two more kids in the class based on something that hasn't happened yet? And if they do change their mind? Then what?

 

[bdgan]

What is so hard to understand?


http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ntees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes


LMAO

I posted the same article earlier this morning but it is light on specifics.

"Scholarships will be "neither reduced nor cancelled" as long as athletes maintain good standing in school, within the athletic department and in the community. If athletes leave school for "a bona fide reason," they will be allowed to return at a later date to complete their degrees on scholarship."

For example, can a kid be told that he is no longer with the team but he can continue attending school on an academic scholarship? Is that a legal way to get to the 85 scholarship limit?

 

[TheGLOV]

I don't think Franklin and his assistants had this much discussion over him leaving or the 85 limit.

 

[bdgan]

Right. I understand that. When the fall rolls around, let's say after all is accounted for the program is at 83 scholarships. So, he awards two walk-on guys a 2018-2019 scholarship so that the program is at a full 85. When they are figuring out how many guys they can recruit in the 2019 class is Franklin counting those two scholarships he gave to the walk-on players as available for the 2019-2020 season or not? I ask because those walk-on players were only guaranteed a scholarship for the 2018-2019 year. I ask because that would be two more scholarships towards the 2019 class. If he doesn't count those as ships he can give out in the 2019 class, then if they are at 87 scholarships after the class signs in February Franklin knows that two will be coming off the books after the spring semester.

If that makes sense.

That's a good question. Does this apply to walkon kids? Once offered they have it for the duration?

"Scholarships will be "neither reduced nor cancelled" as long as athletes maintain good standing in school, within the athletic department and in the community."

 

[Art]

The athletic scholarship might not be meeting expectations on the field just like the academic scholarship might not be meeting expectations in the classroom. Seems similar to me.

I think we would both agree that the individual receiving the scholarship should understand the terms from the beginning.

What are the "terms?" You make the three deep by your second or you're gone? Show me a coach who tells that to a kid when he's being recruited.

I don't understand the effort to sugarcoat this. No one here has any idea what any coach says to any player, whether at PSU or elsewhere. It is what it is and it ain't harmless.

 

[Art]

That's a good question. Does this apply to walkon kids? Once offered they have it for the duration?

"Scholarships will be "neither reduced nor cancelled" as long as athletes maintain good standing in school, within the athletic department and in the community."

It applies to no one. It's nothing more than a Big Ten PR snow job.

 

[bmw199]

Would you like to apply your own logic to your own assertions?

And even if Franklin did know, and they did tell him, they could have changed their minds and decided to stay. Do you think Franklin operates based on maybes? I don't think he does. Do you think CJF takes two more kids in the class based on something that hasn't happened yet? And if they do change their mind? Then what?

Personally, I don't think this stuff happens over night. I would think that the coach is bringing this stuff well before it comes down to a "cut." I think Franklin knew these two weren't going to stay and I bet they had a very good idea too. Again, one said he lost the love of football and the other there is no report on why. I feel like you are insinuating that Franklin straight up cut them. Correct me if I'm wrong. From the beginning I said Franklin knows this stuff well in advance and in general plans for it.

Example: anyone who thinks Sanders will be back in 2019, baring injury, isn't paying attention.

The conversations he has with players likely go over all of these scenarios.

 

[jrd23psu]

That's a good question. Does this apply to walkon kids? Once offered they have it for the duration?

"Scholarships will be "neither reduced nor cancelled" as long as athletes maintain good standing in school, within the athletic department and in the community."

As far as I know, when they are under the limit and a walk-on is awarded the scholarship it's for the fall/spring semester (one year). In other words, there is no guarantee they will be on scholarship the next year. I'm not 100% sure of this, and it's why I asked the question I did. How does CJF calculate how many ships he has for a class? Is he counting those one year awards as coming off the books and available? Or maybe, they are available...if he needs them?

I don't know specifically how Franklin does it. And of course I could always be wrong in my guesses. But my guess is that Franklin operates in a very calculated manner, and that he doesn't rely on things working out. In other words, he controls everything and doesn't take chances.

 

[Art]

As far as I know, when they are under the limit and a walk-on is awarded the scholarship it's for the fall/spring semester (one year). In other words, there is no guarantee they will be on scholarship the next year. I'm not 100% sure of this, and it's why I asked the question I did. How does CJF calculate how many ships he has for a class? Is he counting those one year awards as coming off the books and available? Or maybe, they are available...if he needs them?

I don't know specifically how Franklin does it. And of course I could always be wrong in my guesses. But my guess is that Franklin operates in a very calculated manner, and that he doesn't rely on things working out. In other words, he controls everything and doesn't take chances.

It's not that complicated and it's imprecise. At any given time a coach knows how many kids have no eligibility for the coming season. That's the only given and the starting point for available scholarships. Then the coach estimates attrition: early NFL entrants, transfers, academic casualties, you name the reason for a kid leaving. But it's a guess and like all guesses some are better than others. Good guess means few or no unpleasant conversations. Bad guess? You see the picture.

As for walk-ons, their scholarships are for one year and renewal is at the coach's discretion.

There is no science here.Simple arithmetic coupled with some guesswork.

 

[mcgunns]

Any walk-ons given a scholarship understand that it's for just the one year and may be taken away the next. Though these almost always go to seniors as a reward for their previous dedication and sacrifice so it's mostly a moot point.

 

[jrd23psu]

Personally, I don't think this stuff happens over night. I would think that the coach is bringing this stuff well before it comes down to a "cut." I think Franklin knew these two weren't going to stay and I bet they had a very good idea too. Again, one said he lost the love of football and the other there is no report on why. I feel like you are insinuating that Franklin straight up cut them. Correct me if I'm wrong. From the beginning I said Franklin knows this stuff well in advance and in general plans for it.

Example: anyone who thinks Sanders will be back in 2019, baring injury, isn't paying attention.

The conversations he has with players likely go over all of these scenarios.

I don't think he necessarily cuts them, either. I do think it's a fine line, though. Franklin does not seem like the kidd of guy who leaves things to chance, or likes leaving things to chance. He seems like a guy who likes to control everything he can. I think you're probably right that he has ideas of who is not going to come back for whatever reason during the season, right after it ends, during winter workouts, etc. And those kinds of things helps him to establish how many he can take in a class. The problem is that he can't know 100% for sure if a kid is going to really leave or have a change of heart later, before the semester ends, but after a class signs their NLI. So, he may truly believe that players A, B, and C are going to move on for whatever reason so he has 3 more ships to use in the class. But what if players A and B decide they are staying instead? Well, the class signed and now they are committed to more scholarships than they actually have. Maybe not on purpose, but nonetheless there they are, sitting at 87 committed for 2018-2019. So what do they do? Unless Franklin operates in a way that he is willing to lose out on recruits by not "over recruiting" for lack of a better word when he only has an idea or the word of a kid that they are leaving. I don't think Franklin is willing to leave 2-3 scholarships on the table and miss out on signing kids.

Franklin admits he sits down with every kid. I don't think it's necessarily a straight "you need to leave, you don't have a choice" situation but the kid probably is made to understand that they aren't going to be on the depth chart, probably ever. Maybe it's not a straight cut, but if it comes down to it you have to nudge people along and out. Otherwise you end up leaving scholarships on the table in recruiting classes and I don't think Franklin would do that.

But again, I think it's a fine line. I think that's why people refer to it as being "processed." It's kind of like when a guy is not fired from his job, but he leaves on his own accord because it's made clear that he doesn't really have any opportunity at the company.

 

[ram2020]

Personally, I don't think this stuff happens over night. I would think that the coach is bringing this stuff well before it comes down to a "cut." I think Franklin knew these two weren't going to stay and I bet they had a very good idea too. Again, one said he lost the love of football and the other there is no report on why. I feel like you are insinuating that Franklin straight up cut them. Correct me if I'm wrong. From the beginning I said Franklin knows this stuff well in advance and in general plans for it.

Example: anyone who thinks Sanders will be back in 2019, baring injury, isn't paying attention.

The conversations he has with players likely go over all of these scenarios.

IE sanders goes to the NFL or are you suggesting something else?

 

[jrd23psu]

It's not that complicated and it's imprecise. At any given time a coach knows how many kids have no eligibility for the coming season. That's the only given and the starting point for available scholarships. Then the coach estimates attrition: early NFL entrants, transfers, academic casualties, you name the reason for a kid leaving. But it's a guess and like all guesses some are better than others. Good guess means few or no unpleasant conversations. Bad guess? You see the picture.

As for walk-ons, their scholarships are for one year and renewal is at the coach's discretion.

There is no science here.Simple arithmetic coupled with some guesswork.

That's my point. You don't want to leave scholarships on the table in a recruiting class. Especially if your CJF and you're red hot right now. As much as CJF wants to control everything, you don't know for sure if your calculations will be right. And sometimes when you're wrong you end up being committed to 87 scholarships when you have 85. Then you have to have unpleasant conversations with some kids. I don't know what is said in those conversations specifically, but when you see that a program is committed to 87 scholarships and then two guys announce they are leaving the program you start to connect the dots.

And maybe some more guys leave, too. And maybe those guys didn't have unpleasant conversations.

 

[phillybillyreprise]

Is PSU football just a little bit pregnant?

 

[bmw199]

IE sanders goes to the NFL or are you suggesting something else?

Yea, sorry wasn't suggesting anything else. As a 5 star kids that's been the plan and his goal. I see no way he comes back regardless if he's a projected 3rd day or 1st day pick.