Consider how bad the QB recruiting & coaching has been

lazydave841

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And if can somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat against either Ohio State or Michigan, wow, what a lift that would be. Hope springs eternal and all

We played neck and neck with both teams last year. Both games literally swung on 1-2 plays.

In no shape or fashion do I think Michigan is going to be as good in '22 as they were in '21. And the Buckeyes have been a machine for a decade now. So they are what they always are.

I have to hold any predictions for after Purdue. They are an iffy opponent. Returning QB, but lost their best 2 players and don't have any known threats. Very similar to Wisconsin last year. We'll know better where we stand after this one.
 
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marshall23

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We played neck and neck with both teams last year. Both games literally swung on 1-2 plays.

In no shape or fashion do I think Michigan is going to be as good in '22 as they were in '21. And the Buckeyes have been a machine for a decade now. So they are what they always are.

I have to hold any predictions for after Purdue. They are an iffy opponent. Returning QB, but lost their best 2 players and don't have any known threats. Very similar to Wisconsin last year. We'll know better where we stand after this one.
Because of the injury factor, football is difficult to predict. For all the criticism here, I wonder how the detractors were feeling when PSU was rolling at Iowa (before Clifford's injury)?
 
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Wallace Breen

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Because of the injury factor, football is difficult to predict. For all the criticism here, I wonder how the detractors were feeling when PSU was rolling at Iowa (before Clifford's injury)?
It was a one score contest with Iowa holding all the momentum before Clifford's injury impacted the game. The fact of the matter is the game was on the path to a tight one score slugfest regardless of Clifford's injury.
 
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lazydave841

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It was a one score contest with Iowa holding all the momentum before Clifford's injury impacted the game. The fact of the matter is the game was on the path to a tight one score slugfest regardless of Clifford's injury.
You are truly either a delusional troll or simply just a flat out liar.

Iowa had ZERO momentum until the Iowa LB Campbell crushed Clifford on a 3rd down inside the 20.

The score after the ensuing FG: Penn State 17, Iowa 3.

Iowa's 3 came off Clifford's first pass, a terrible INT that shouldn't have been thrown where they lost 8 yards after being GIFTED the ball in the red zone.

Iowa had 49 yards of offense and a turnover that we turned into a TD prior to the Clifford's injury. We had 202 yards of offense at this same point.

Iowa never seized the momentum until late in the 4th (6 minute mark approximately) when after an atrocious drive saw us penalty our way from the 25 yard line back to the 6 and a poor punt set up Iowa on our 44, they caught us with a beautiful PA Pass for a TD.

The game was a tight slugfest after Clifford went out, primarily because our defense held together for as long as they did. Before his injury kept him from returning, Clifford was moving us down the field.

200 yards in 18 minutes vs a team that was barely giving up 300 in 60. Yeah, Iowa held all the momentum.
 

marshall23

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You are truly either a delusional troll or simply just a flat out liar.

Iowa had ZERO momentum until the Iowa LB Campbell crushed Clifford on a 3rd down inside the 20.

The score after the ensuing FG: Penn State 17, Iowa 3.

Iowa's 3 came off Clifford's first pass, a terrible INT that shouldn't have been thrown where they lost 8 yards after being GIFTED the ball in the red zone.

Iowa had 49 yards of offense and a turnover that we turned into a TD prior to the Clifford's injury. We had 202 yards of offense at this same point.

Iowa never seized the momentum until late in the 4th (6 minute mark approximately) when after an atrocious drive saw us penalty our way from the 25 yard line back to the 6 and a poor punt set up Iowa on our 44, they caught us with a beautiful PA Pass for a TD.

The game was a tight slugfest after Clifford went out, primarily because our defense held together for as long as they did. Before his injury kept him from returning, Clifford was moving us down the field.

200 yards in 18 minutes vs a team that was barely giving up 300 in 60. Yeah, Iowa held all the momentum.
Breen LOL
 

Wallace Breen

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You are truly either a delusional troll or simply just a flat out liar.

Iowa had ZERO momentum until the Iowa LB Campbell crushed Clifford on a 3rd down inside the 20.

The score after the ensuing FG: Penn State 17, Iowa 3.

Iowa's 3 came off Clifford's first pass, a terrible INT that shouldn't have been thrown where they lost 8 yards after being GIFTED the ball in the red zone.

Iowa had 49 yards of offense and a turnover that we turned into a TD prior to the Clifford's injury. We had 202 yards of offense at this same point.

Iowa never seized the momentum until late in the 4th (6 minute mark approximately) when after an atrocious drive saw us penalty our way from the 25 yard line back to the 6 and a poor punt set up Iowa on our 44, they caught us with a beautiful PA Pass for a TD.

The game was a tight slugfest after Clifford went out, primarily because our defense held together for as long as they did. Before his injury kept him from returning, Clifford was moving us down the field.

200 yards in 18 minutes vs a team that was barely giving up 300 in 60. Yeah, Iowa held all the momentum.
Talk about delusional. Pot meet kettle. The facts are the facts. Deny them all you want but they are not changing. Every key metric was trending towards Iowa. I can understand why you are ignorant to the facts. The metrics began swinging towards Iowa well before the Clifford injury and Iowa moved within a score before his absence mattered or was even known. Deny all you want but the facts remain the facts.
 

lazydave841

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Every key metric was trending towards Iowa
Every metric yet you couldn't name a single one? I listed everything.

We might have been torpedoed once Clifford went down and that falls completely on Franklin and Yurcich for not having a competent backup QB ready to even field a snap without something like 6 false starts, but there isn't a single metric that says Iowa was doing much prior to Clifford's injury.

We saw how Iowa played the rest of the game. They put one good TD drive together directly after the injury and then struggled in a field position battle the rest of the way.

They did exactly enough to win against us WITHOUT SEAN CLIFFORD.

There is no sense in what if'ing "had Clifford remained healthy and finished the game". I don't think we rolled up 4-5 more TDs and 400+ more yards (as the 'metrics' show, that was the pace across 18 minutes), but I don't believe the defense was going to clamp Clifford like they did Roberson.

Still waiting for your metrics that indicate Iowa had all of the momentum in a 17-3 game in which they were outgained 200 to 50 and couldn't gain yards inside the red zone.
 
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Wallace Breen

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Every metric yet you couldn't name a single one? I listed everything.

We might have been torpedoed once Clifford went down and that falls completely on Franklin and Yurcich for not having a competent backup QB ready to even field a snap without something like 6 false starts, but there isn't a single metric that says Iowa was doing much prior to Clifford's injury.

We saw how Iowa played the rest of the game. They put one good TD drive together directly after the injury and then struggled in a field position battle the rest of the way.

They did exactly enough to win against us WITHOUT SEAN CLIFFORD.

There is no sense in what if'ing "had Clifford remained healthy and finished the game". I don't think we rolled up 4-5 more TDs and 400+ more yards (as the 'metrics' show, that was the pace across 18 minutes), but I don't believe the defense was going to clamp Clifford like they did Roberson.

Still waiting for your metrics that indicate Iowa had all of the momentum in a 17-3 game in which they were outgained 200 to 50 and couldn't gain yards inside the red zone.
You are funny. Are you here all week? Yes, the metrics all say that Iowa had flipped the script. It was a one score game before Clifford's injury mattered. That is a fact no matter how hard you scream it isn't. Deal with it. For the offense, this was a classic case of us getting out to a hot start then cooling off. That hot start was fueled by explosive plays. Three the first drive, two second, one the third and so-forth while the average play per drive normalized to account for outliers (AKA, big plays) was a paltry 1.9 ypp. Average yards per play went up a bit over the 5 drives Cliff played but not much while Iowa's defense was taking away big plays and generating more of their own. This is a patter than repeats itself a lot when MY is coaching. It repeated itself many times last year so don't bother claiming it is an anomaly. It isn't.

Iowa's defense had control when Clifford got hurt and it was a one point game. At the point Clifford's injury actually impacted the game, Iowa elected to play the long game given the one score nature of the contest. They had opened it up on the score that brought them within one, creating the blue print for every other offense to use the rest of the season (Illinois saw it and used it to brutal effect the following game). Iowa played the most conservative 2 quarters they played all year knowing they were going to win. Had they stuck the plan they had Cliff not been hurt, they likely win regardless, and maybe by several scores given the way the game was trending and how much pressure they were getting on 14. I can keep going but the facts are the facts.

We all have seen what happens to our team when the 'explosive' plays go away. And they were going away. The metrics are clear. Like so many times, we were big play or bust and the metrics were tilted in Iowa's favor before Clifford got hurt. Undeniable fact. I said it before and I'll say it again. Deal with it.
 

Delcolion915

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And yet you cannot argue with me so you don't. Go ahead, explain why Franklin, who now has a well documented history of poor judgement and decision making is coming off back to back subpar seasons (with a roster of his recruits vs. his best seasons which leveraged his predecessors recruits almost entirely) with a third 5 loss season likely on the way (which would make it 4 of 5 seasons) is anything but the most over-rated, over-paid coach in history.
He doesn't argue. He insults people.
 
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Delcolion915

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Interesting that some of those fans said that Allar did not have a good Spring practice. There hasn’t been much said about Allar, so has anyone heard anything credible about how Allar’s first spring practice went?
He has consistently found the open corner back, safety, and linebacker lol
 

ryoder1

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Franklin did a great job at Vanderbilt. No doubt about it. He elevated the talent level at Vandy and won a lot of games they ordinarily don't win. But he did go 1-8 against ranked teams. That remains his calling card -- don't expect him to beat better teams.

The sports world is full of coaches who did an outstanding job in one assignment, get promoted to a bigger assignment, and have more mixed results. Or, coaches have success at that bigger assignment and then fall off.

Mack Brown, Gus Malzahn, Les Miles, Dan Mullen, Tom Herman, John Cooper, Tommy Bowden, Phillip Fulmer, etc. etc. etc. The list is long.
Mac Brown won a natty so be careful what you wish for.
 

lazydave841

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It was a one score game before Clifford's injury mattered.

Clifford's injury mattered the instance it happened. He didn't return for a single snap after the hit.

Iowa didn't have no qualms driving up and down the field in '20 en route to scoring 41. Had they been capable in '21, they certainly would have.

Penn State's offensive cool down COMPLETELY coincided with Clifford EXITING THE GAME. And the "hot start" as you call it included 2 INTs; not my definition of hot.

Don't have the stats in front of me at the moment, but I don't remember us having 6 plays of 20+ yards in the first 5 drives. (Explosive plays are defined as plays that gain 20 or more yards) I'll look at the PBP when I have the chance.

---edit-- 2 plays that went for 20+ yards. 1) KLS reception went for 30 2) Clifford rush for 22. -end edit-

At the end of it all, they won. We lost. And it'll be another year or so before we see them again.
 
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marshall23

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Talk about delusional. Pot meet kettle. The facts are the facts. Deny them all you want but they are not changing. Every key metric was trending towards Iowa. I can understand why you are ignorant to the facts. The metrics began swinging towards Iowa well before the Clifford injury and Iowa moved within a score before his absence mattered or was even known. Deny all you want but the facts remain the facts.
"key metrics" "trending" LOL.....this is football not a web team....
 

Wallace Breen

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So did Les Miles and by that gage they are both superior coaches to Franklin.
They are both superior, especially Mack Brown, even without the national titles. The Miles vs Franklin comparison is pretty apt though as Coach Hype compares most favorably to Miles. They both are plagued by horrible game day coaching decisions, bad clock management and coaching philosophies. Both a good not great recruiters whose teams constantly featured unbalanced rosters and regularly whiffed on the highest profile recruits needed to run what ever offense they were trying to run at the time. Both suffered from poor judgement in regarding to their selection of coordinators and position coaches making their roster and recruiting issues even worse. Franklin.

Performance wise, both inherited good situations but mismanaged them to the team's detriment before lucking into a key hire forcing a course correction then falling off the cliff a few years later. Bottom line, should history repeat itself, and it usually does with coaches such as these guys, we are where LSU was in 2012, 2013. A lot of talent. A lot of early departures. System coaches that are incapable of adapting to a rapidly changing roster leading to a bottom heavy roster full of inexperienced players leading to 3, 4 or 5 loss years. The result is always the same, top players using the program to get to the next level rather than trying to help the program win. There are already signs of this.
 
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Delcolion915

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They are both superior, especially Mack Brown, even without the national titles. The Miles vs Franklin comparison is pretty apt though as Coach Hype compares most favorably to Miles. They both are plagued by horrible game day coaching decisions, bad clock management and coaching philosophies. Both a good not great recruiters whose teams constantly featured unbalanced rosters and regularly whiffed on the highest profile recruits needed to run what ever offense they were trying to run at the time. Both suffered from poor judgement in regarding to their selection of coordinators and position coaches making their roster and recruiting issues even worse. Franklin.

Performance wise, both inherited good situations but mismanaged them to the team's detriment before lucking into a key hire forcing a course correction then falling off the cliff a few years later. Bottom line, should history repeat itself, and it usually does with coaches such as these guys, we are where LSU was in 2012, 2013. A lot of talent. A lot of early departures. System coaches that are incapable of adapting to a rapidly changing roster leading to a bottom heavy roster full of inexperienced players leading to 3, 4 or 5 loss years. The result is always the same, top players using the program to get to the next level rather than trying to help the program win. There are already signs of this.
Your last paragraph is spot on. Even more amazing are all the jock riding coach lovers on here who regularly applaud early departures that devastate the team. It's actually bizarre, as if they want this team to have. 500 seasons then come on here and boot lock the staff just to start arguments.
 

lazydave841

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Your last paragraph is spot on.

You mean you agree with this:

Performance wise, both inherited good situations but mismanaged them to the team's detriment before lucking into a key hire forcing a course correcti

Penn State was in a good situation in '14?

Sanctions. No post season hope. 9 or so of our best athletes recruited out from under us before his arrival killing depth along with the stigma and reduced scholarships to deal with after? DL turned into OL just to have a 2 deep.

I'd love for somebody to explain to me what the good situation was. I can't get my head around it.
 

Wallace Breen

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You mean you agree with this:



Penn State was in a good situation in '14?

Sanctions. No post season hope. 9 or so of our best athletes recruited out from under us before his arrival killing depth along with the stigma and reduced scholarships to deal with after? DL turned into OL just to have a 2 deep.

I'd love for somebody to explain to me what the good situation was. I can't get my head around it.

Yes, Penn State had a good situation. Franklin inherited almost all key prospects that filled his first two recruiting classes which, retrospectively, were his two best classes. Most contributors were O'Brien recruits and targets including all key offensive players during his best years sans Clifford, Sanders and Brown. Defensively, he inherited a top two defense nationally. The 14 and 15 teams remain the best AND most talented defenses he has had. Those units had the best player Franklin has ever had at no less than 9 positions. Gross-Matos and Parsons being the exceptions, and maybe Haley. Maybe.

The sanctions? Their impact was felt almost entirely in 2012 and 2013. Not 14 and later and the great whiner would have you believe. The sanctions had almost no impact past 13. They are an excuse. Bowl games? Everyone knew the ban would be lifted prior to O'Brien leaving and had no impact at all. And please stop with the tired excuses of Derek Dowrey and Brian Gaia moving from D to O. They were recruited as O-linemen. They practiced on that side of the ball. And guess what, when using man blocking in 2014, they rated above average in the Big Ten, like the rest of their teammates. But, we had John Donovan, the worse coordinator in football history and he insisted we run a spread gap blocking scheme for most plays. The line was not the issue in 14 and 15, coaching was. 200% coaching incompetence by Franklin and his clown car full of offense coaches. That was the worst staff in Big Ten history. Franklin's fault.
 

MountainParkway

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If it’s “their coaching” that developed Levis….how come they’ve never developed another even half way decent QB? Eight years with crap QB’s, a backup from PSU comes there, has a good year, and suddenly the UK staff are QB whisperers…..gimme a break.
New qb coach/OC, now OC with the Rams!
 

PSU_Nut

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Specifically regarding PSU, if we're being honest with ourselves, this program is beginning to remind me of what happened to Pitt after 1982; it was a slow and precipitous fall from which that program never has recovered.
Did you sleep through the early 2000s? It been like that long before Franklin got here. Franklin took the program and had the best 4 year run Penn State has had in two decades. You have had to be in a comma for over a decade to think this is the first time Penn State football has been down.
 
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Delcolion915

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Did you sleep through the early 2000s? It been like that long before Franklin got here. Franklin took the program and had the best 4 year run Penn State has had in two decades. You have had to be in a comma for over a decade to think this is the first time Penn State football has been down.
Wrong. Joe Paterno 2006-2009.
 

GregInPitt

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Because of the injury factor, football is difficult to predict. For all the criticism here, I wonder how the detractors were feeling when PSU was rolling at Iowa (before Clifford's injury)?
Yep, just had an expert in another thread sluf off PSU's 2021 injuries as "injuries happen to all teams, last time he checked". Nice of him to check, but there are injuries and then there are injuries. When your two most critical players are injured and out of a highly contested game in the first quarter, your best defender and the leader of the defense, and your returning QB that has no proven backup, it will be and it was a game changer. PSU was clearly a better team than Iowa before Mustipher and Clifford were injured. Would have still been a victory if Roberson would have played just a little better, but $hit happens.......
 

Wallace Breen

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PSU was clearly a better team than Iowa before Mustipher and Clifford were injured. Would have still been a victory if Roberson would have played just a little better, but $hit happens.......
It was not clear at all. What was clear was we got off to a hot start but cooled down after Iowa made adjustments. They were within one score before Clifford's injury impacted so much as a single play. PJs absence really didn't impact Iowa's game plan. The adjustments they made to move within a score (which were heavily used by every opponent from that point on) exclusively took advantage of both defensive ends and our outside linebackers. PJs loss was more impactful against Illinois as his side to side movement could have sealed cut back lanes as our undersized ends were driven wide.

Sorry, Iowa was probably the better team, regardless of injury.
 

GregInPitt

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It was not clear at all. What was clear was we got off to a hot start but cooled down after Iowa made adjustments. They were within one score before Clifford's injury impacted so much as a single play. PJs absence really didn't impact Iowa's game plan. The adjustments they made to move within a score (which were heavily used by every opponent from that point on) exclusively took advantage of both defensive ends and our outside linebackers. PJs loss was more impactful against Illinois as his side to side movement could have sealed cut back lanes as our undersized ends were driven wide.

Sorry, Iowa was probably the better team, regardless of injury.
PSU "cooled down" on offense when Clifford went out of the game hurt. And the PSU offense stayed "cooled down" in subsequent games because Clifford was playing hurt. Any competent QB playing for PSU would have led PSU to a 2 or 3 TD margin of victory at Iowa.

PSU "cooled down" on defense when Mustipher went out of the game hurt. And the PSU defense played in a "cooled down" performance especially against the run for the remainder of the season without the first war daddy DT that PSU had in a few years as Mustipher's injury was season ending.

I have a hard time placing too much of the failure to stop the run on the LB's. Two of them will likely be on NFL rosters this year. Obviously PSU needs a couple of the young LB's to step up for 2022.

The only positives from last season's damaging injuries are that Veilleux got some experience and looks very capable. And that the young DT's that were thrown into the fire in Mustipher's absence sorted themselves out with Izzard showing he will be a good compliment to Mustipher in 2022 and a couple of other getting experience that should make them more capable contributors in 2022. The DT depth going into 2022 looks much better due to the experience that Izzard and Ellies got, and to a lesser extent van den Berg and Mulbah, and the addition of Beamon and Durant. I doubt we see another run fest like what happened against Illinois.

The biggest disappointment arising from the Iowa game, other than the injuries and their impact on that game and the remainder of the 2021 season, was CJF and his staff's inability to field a competent backup QB early in 2021. Roberson was a 2019 class player, so they had 2 full years to prepare him to play and should have gotten him into some games during 2019 and 2020. And if he was not the answer Franklin should have agressively gone after portal players once Levis left. Franklin consistently has failed to insert the backup QB's into games during his tenure at PSU, and in the portal age it is necessary to not only get the 2nd string QB ready but also the QB's further down the depth chart.
 
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Wallace Breen

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PSU "cooled down" on offense when Clifford went out of the game hurt. And the PSU offense stayed "cooled down" in subsequent games because Clifford was playing hurt. Any competent QB playing for PSU would have led PSU to a 2 or 3 TD margin of victory at Iowa.

PSU "cooled down" on defense when Mustipher went out of the game hurt. And the PSU defense played in a "cooled down" performance especially against the run for the remainder of the season without the first war daddy DT that PSU had in a few years as Mustipher's injury was season ending.

I have a hard time placing too much of the failure to stop the run on the LB's. Two of them will likely be on NFL rosters this year. Obviously PSU needs a couple of the young LB's to step up for 2022.

The only positives from last season's damaging injuries are that Veilleux got some experience and looks very capable. And that the young DT's that were thrown into the fire in Mustipher's absence sorted themselves out with Izzard showing he will be a good compliment to Mustipher in 2022 and a couple of other getting experience that should make them more capable contributors in 2022. The DT depth going into 2022 looks much better due to the experience that Izzard and Ellies got, and to a lesser extent van den Berg and Mulbah, and the addition of Beamon and Durant. I doubt we see another run fest like what happened against Illinois.

The biggest disappointment arising from the Iowa game, other than the injuries and their impact on that game and the remainder of the 2021 season, was CJF and his staff's inability to field a competent backup QB early in 2021. Roberson was a 2019 class player, so they had 2 full years to prepare him to play and should have gotten him into some games during 2019 and 2020. And if he was not the answer Franklin should have agressively gone after portal players once Levis left. Franklin consistently has failed to insert the backup QB's into games during his tenure at PSU, and in the portal age it is necessary to not only get the 2nd string QB ready but also the QB's further down the depth chart.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on the Iowa game. Every person I know at the game saw it very differently from those who watched it on TV. With that said, Franklin has done an exceptionally poor job managing the most important position on the field (and second and third most in my opinion, LT, 3 Tech) during his tenure. The problem with Roberson is he simply lacked the ability to execute the offense. Roberson has Trace's skillset. Neither could execute more than 25% of MY's offense. Franklin willfully put him into a no-win position. There will be some who start screaming for Pribula early this season. Same story. He is another Trace. Stokes appears somewhere between Clifford and Trace skillset wise which means he is another likely early portal candidate. Why are we recruiting them? Right now, we have Clifford for one more year, CV and Allar. That is it. The other QBs are cannon fodder. I fully agree that Franklin should have hit the portal hard.

The portal is going to be the end of Franklin in my opinion. Based on interviews, comments etc, he very much appears to be a 'my way or the highway' guy. He prefers system coordinators and recruiters vs. positions coaches. The portal has introduced so much churn in rosters that if you want to elevate the program, you need flexible, pragmatic head coaches, coordinators and position coaches that are capable of adapting what they do to the talent on hand. Based on their histories, Mike Yurcich and Manny Diaz are not the guys you want for coordinators. Obviously some of these guys are head coaches and clearly not going to be our coordinators but for example, we need guys like Joe Moorhead who has demonstrated his ability to adapt his offense to the talent on hand, specifically QB, but at other positions as well or Pat Narduzzi.

Joe's offense uses a west coast style timing based passing game and his man/gap hybrid blocking scheme as a core. Everything else is based on the QB/Receivers on hand. His offenses at Akron, UCONN, Fordham, Penn State, the other MSU and Oregon were all very different. We need that in the portal era. Look what Joe Brady did running the offense Moorhead wanted Hack to run in State College at LSU? Our skill talent was better in 2016 across the board than LSUs in 2018 had Franklin not ran Hack off the team. Yes, I said it. Franklin wanted Hack off the team. When Pat Narduzzi was at MSU, his defenses moved from 4-3 to hybrid 3-4 on a year to year and sometimes game to game basis based on injuries, and performed at a very high level at all times. Diaz has not demonstrated the agility to do that. Pry refused even though we had odd front talent.
 

john4psu

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Who does the rating you?
I've enjoyed the Pin Stripe, Citrus, Rose and Fiesta Bowl. I like Franklin, how he recruits, represents the university and the football program. He's a good husband, father, role model and educator.
PSU has had two down years. No one needs to sugar coat that. It happens. Texas, Nebraska and Florida State to name a few have had some bad stretches as well. Deal with it.
You can hold your breath, stomp your feet, scream.....bitch and moan.....but the decision makers agree with me and his 10 year contract is proof. I'm going to enjoy it.....because as far as I know, we are all just spectators.
You didn't enjoy the Cotton Bowl?
 

john4psu

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Man, the hate and negativity for Franklin. Is it jealousy over his contract? I don't begrudge anyone the money they make. Apparently, some in here do. You don't like it? Become a big-time college football coach. You disapprove of his contract? Don't buy Penn State football tickets.

Two facts not mentioned. Penn State defeated Ohio State in 2014. Big 10 officials made sure it didn't happen.

Justin Fields had committed to Penn State. Did an SEC bag man get him to go to Georgia? How's that Franklin's fault?

McSorley was a 3-star recruit and not highly recruited by the big boys if I recall and he became Penn State's 2nd or 3rd greatest QB ever and did make it to the NFL.

How many great QBs did Joe have in 45 years? Collins was the only one to be successful at Penn State and in the NFL. Blackledge, Fusina, Robinson, Clark, they made no impact as NFL Qbs.

It's not like when Franklin took over anyone ever called Penn State - Quarterback U.

So if you're moaning about the lack of Penn State's QBs, consider Franklin's had us to the Rose, Fiesta and Cotton Bowls without a future NFL QB stud.

I loved Joe but he only won the Big 10 conference three times in 19 years. Perspective people.
 

marshall23

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Yep, just had an expert in another thread sluf off PSU's 2021 injuries as "injuries happen to all teams, last time he checked". Nice of him to check, but there are injuries and then there are injuries. When your two most critical players are injured and out of a highly contested game in the first quarter, your best defender and the leader of the defense, and your returning QB that has no proven backup, it will be and it was a game changer. PSU was clearly a better team than Iowa before Mustipher and Clifford were injured. Would have still been a victory if Roberson would have played just a little better, but $hit happens.......
and if CV had not positioned himself in the "doghouse"......... but why confuse some with details....
 

PSU_Nut

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Wrong. Joe Paterno 2006-2009.
From 2006-2009 Penn State finished ranked 24, Unranked, 8 and 9
From 2016-2019 Penn State finished ranked 7, 8, 17 and 9
The last time Penn State had 4 straight ranked seasons was 1996 to 1999.
The last time Penn State has 3 Top 10 season in 4 years was 1993 to 1996

So you can easily say Penn State had it best 4 year run in over 2 decades.
 
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Wallace Breen

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Mar 11, 2016
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From 2006-2009 Penn State finished ranked 24, Unranked, 8 and 9
From 2016-2019 Penn State finished ranked 7, 8, 17 and 9
The last time Penn State had 4 straight ranked seasons was 1996 to 1999.
The last time Penn State has 3 Top 10 season in 4 years was 1993 to 1996

So you can easily say Penn State had it best 4 year run in over 2 decades.
Nonsense, the 08 and 09 teams were considerably better than any Team's Franklin have produced, the 06 and 07 teams were better than 2018. Never mind 2005 which is the best of all of them.
 
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Wallace Breen

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Players don't usually get "positioned" into the doghouse, they actually earn the "doghouse".
Except we know that isn't true when it comes to Franklin. The core players from the 2013 offense were in the doghouse the instant Franklin arrived which is why most of them were benched in favor of inferior players or freshmen that weren't ready to play. This is common knowledge.
 

marshall23

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May 23, 2013
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Thanks for reminding me. Yes, I was there. A great venue and a much better fan experience than the Rose Bowl...seen it once....great history and tradition.....now a dump.
https://mail-attachment.googleuserc...wIpKt7autREl-OxBt4mJb5qzd7UBNKOXtQUovgnx-Py2w
Really enjoyed the Fiesta Bowl as well! Ran into old friend after many years! TEN MORE YEARS!
 
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marshall23

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Man, the hate and negativity for Franklin. Is it jealousy over his contract? I don't begrudge anyone the money they make. Apparently, some in here do. You don't like it? Become a big-time college football coach. You disapprove of his contract? Don't buy Penn State football tickets.

Two facts not mentioned. Penn State defeated Ohio State in 2014. Big 10 officials made sure it didn't happen.

Justin Fields had committed to Penn State. Did an SEC bag man get him to go to Georgia? How's that Franklin's fault?

McSorley was a 3-star recruit and not highly recruited by the big boys if I recall and he became Penn State's 2nd or 3rd greatest QB ever and did make it to the NFL.

How many great QBs did Joe have in 45 years? Collins was the only one to be successful at Penn State and in the NFL. Blackledge, Fusina, Robinson, Clark, they made no impact as NFL Qbs.

It's not like when Franklin took over anyone ever called Penn State - Quarterback U.

So if you're moaning about the lack of Penn State's QBs, consider Franklin's had us to the Rose, Fiesta and Cotton Bowls without a future NFL QB stud.

I loved Joe but he only won the Big 10 conference three times in 19 years. Perspective people.
Wally doesn't like the metrics! :oops:
 

dailybuck777

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Jan 2, 2018
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Some of you may be interested in highly rated qb Dylan Raiola's comments after his first workout at OSU. "“I’m speechless,” Raiola said after the camp. “I learned so much from (Day), just taking everything like a sponge. That was my biggest thing coming here, to get back out here and learn as much as I can before I get here so I’m ready.” https://www.si.com/college/ohiostat...visit#gid=ci02a4519ce0002594&pid=dylan-raiola
 

Marylovesthelions

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So, to sum up after all the comments, many have nothing to do with the subject. Here is the question. Answer yes or no. Has the coaching staff done a good job recruiting, training and using the quarterbacks on the team over the last 2 years? If they do not improve, do not expect to return to 2016-18. Was Trace an aberration?
This is not a referendum on Franklin. I like him. But in my opinion the way he has handled the quarterbacks has not been good.
Thank you everyone for your opinions over the life of this thread.
 

Wallace Breen

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"Has the coaching staff done a good job recruiting, training and using the quarterbacks on the team over the last 2 years?"

Mary, I think you have three questions here.

Have they done a good job recruiting? This one is a mixed bag. Allar is a good pickup. He fits what MY wants at the potential better than any QB on the roster or currently in the known pipeline. The counter argument is that we signed Pribula and Stokes and all information strongly suggests neither fit the offense. Pribula is more like Trace whereas Stokes is more like Clifford but both are on the dual threat spectrum. That is a problem. So long as CV stays on the roster post 2022 and Allar starts, recruiting is solid. If Allar doesn’t start? Well, recruiting has been a dumpster fire.

How about training? Training players has never been a strength for any team Franklin coaches. That is a fact. The last couple of years have been an abysmal failure. It was clear the instant JoeMo’s impact on the team was purged that dual threat QBs no longer had a place, yet Roberson was ahead of CV on the depth chart. Never mind the gross incompetence of the early Franklin years.

Using the QBs is the biggest one. Franklin has mostly failed in this regard during his time in State College. By fail, I mean fail. He brought John Donovan and Ricky Rahne with him. Fail. He ran Hack off the roster. Fail. He named Trace McSorley the starter despite having lost the competition to Tommy Stevens. Fail. He has brought on two system coordinators that require QB play none of our QBs, to include Clifford, can't fully execute . Fail.

Other questions.

Was Trace an aberration?

In a word yes, he remains the most over-rated Penn Stater in team history. He was the product of Joe Moorhead’s brilliance mixed with the presence of Saquan Barkley, Mike Gesicki and Chris Godwin’s generational talent. In DC lore, Barkley was Superman, Gesicki was Cyborg, Godwin was the movie version of Aquaman. Hamilton was Batman. Trace was Robin, but he was Franklin’s guy, no matter what. Franklin ran Hack off the team so he could start Trace and never gave Tommy Stevens the opportunity to start, and by most accounts, an opportunity he won during camp. We won a lot of games but ultimately, the QB position was our biggest weakness.

And yes, this is a referendum on Franklin. How he has managed the most important position on the field has ranged from OK, to bad to horrible depending on the year. This is but one of several examples highlighting the weaknesses of his decision making process
 

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