Conference realignment

[dunkej01]

While it's a football world it will affect our beloved sport wrestling.

OU....goes where
ISU does what

Other big 12 schools start to spread out and what does a school like KU do without a wrestling team. Would the big ask that they fund one as a condition of coming within a period of time.

Does team fist to back split from the big to what's left of the big 12 since they dont do so much in the big.

Does psu...dare I say...split to the acc

OmG it will be a mess

 

[jtothemfp]

From the same site Seth Duckworth writes about wrestling on, Pistols Firing, here is a football-centric exploration of the current discussion: https://pistolsfiringblog.com/what-would-the-big-12-look-like-without-oklahoma-and-texas/

And then Seth's reply:

 

[Chickenman Testa]

From the same site Seth Duckworth writes about wrestling on, Pistols Firing, here is a football-centric exploration of the current discussion: https://pistolsfiringblog.com/what-would-the-big-12-look-like-without-oklahoma-and-texas/

And then Seth's reply:

View embedded media

God, that’s a garbage conference

 

[El-Jefe]

IMO the rumored UT/OU move to the SEC isn't gonna happen.
1. SEC is fully in the Texas market, with A&M. Does not need UT nearly as much as UT needs them (and UT absolutely will never admit that).
2. Word is UT sees SEC as academically inferior, and prefers B10 or Pac12. (Coincidentally *cough cough* B10 West and Pac 12 are far easier football than SEC.)
3. SEC apparently gives schools veto rights against expansion within their states. A&M will demand king's ransom to let UT in. If SEC pays that (already having TV coverage across the state), then what do all the other schools demand?
4. Doubt SEC admits OU without another school -- but where would that come from? Clemson doesn't add TVs and would get Cock blocked. Florida will veto FSU and Miami. Maybe UNC or NC State?

PSU is NOT going to the ACC. B10 revenue >>> ACC revenue. Not close. And that's before PSU Athletics revenue dropping $74M this year, and having to re-pay the loans.

TL;DR: UT and OU are squeezing B12. Likely not much more to it than that.

 

[Lyons212]

IMO the rumored UT/OU move to the SEC isn't gonna happen.
1. SEC is fully in the Texas market, with A&M. Does not need UT nearly as much as UT needs them (and UT absolutely will never admit that).
2. Word is UT sees SEC as academically inferior, and prefers B10 or Pac12. (Coincidentally *cough cough* B10 West and Pac 12 are far easier football than SEC.)
3. SEC apparently gives schools veto rights against expansion within their states. A&M will demand king's ransom to let UT in. If SEC pays that (already having TV coverage across the state), then what do all the other schools demand?
4. Doubt SEC admits OU without another school -- but where would that come from? Clemson doesn't add TVs and would get Cock blocked. Florida will veto FSU and Miami. Maybe UNC or NC State?

PSU is NOT going to the ACC. B10 revenue >>> ACC revenue. Not close. And that's before PSU Athletics revenue dropping $74M this year, and having to re-pay the loans.

TL;DR: UT and OU are squeezing B12. Likely not much more to it than that.

OU and Texas to everyone else, let the bidding begin. The B1G and PAC-12 would both be stupid to not add them to their conference.

 

[El-Jefe]

OU and Texas to everyone else, let the bidding begin. The B1G and PAC-12 would both be stupid to not add them to their conference.

They'd be stupid to not consider UT and OU.

But Pac12 discussed merger with them 2-3 years ago, and it didn't happen. There's gotta be a reason.

Purely a guess, but that reason might have been Texas insisting on the Longhorn Network. Which would be a deal-killer with B10 too.

Another issue for B10: Oklahoma is not an AAU member. B10 waived that for Nebraska after much hand wringing -- and the academic side of B10 is still not happy with that decision (as Nebraska still hasn't met AAU membership criteria 10 years later). Another waiver would be a serious hurdle.

 

[PSUer1989]

From a wrestling standpoint, I don’t think this would have to impact things. They already have Northern Colorado and Fresno State as wrestling only members. I would think they would try to keep OU in for wrestling.

 

[tbay165]

IMO the rumored UT/OU move to the SEC isn't gonna happen.
1. SEC is fully in the Texas market, with A&M. Does not need UT nearly as much as UT needs them (and UT absolutely will never admit that).
2. Word is UT sees SEC as academically inferior, and prefers B10 or Pac12. (Coincidentally *cough cough* B10 West and Pac 12 are far easier football than SEC.)
3. SEC apparently gives schools veto rights against expansion within their states. A&M will demand king's ransom to let UT in. If SEC pays that (already having TV coverage across the state), then what do all the other schools demand?
4. Doubt SEC admits OU without another school -- but where would that come from? Clemson doesn't add TVs and would get Cock blocked. Florida will veto FSU and Miami. Maybe UNC or NC State?

PSU is NOT going to the ACC. B10 revenue >>> ACC revenue. Not close. And that's before PSU Athletics revenue dropping $74M this year, and having to re-pay the loans.

TL;DR: UT and OU are squeezing B12. Likely not much more to it than that.

This has been in the works for awhile. Texas A&M leaked it to the media this week so the process has accelerated. It is definitely going to happen and other realignment is on the way. Academic affilation considerations in this process will be a consideration, but not central to upcoming decisions. The dollars are too big. These super conferences are coming and quick.

 

[dunkej01]

This is happening. Better start thinking about this impacts message boards everywhere

 

[Cali_Nittany]

This is happening. Better start thinking about this impacts message boards everywhere

View embedded media

Kansas would be a decent addition with access to the Kansas City media market and a blue blood basketball program. I hope the Big 10* takes a pass on Iowa State. There are better fits out there. The Pope needs to tell Notre Dame that they are in the wrong conference (and add back wrestling).

 

[El-Jefe]

Kansas would be a decent addition with access to the Kansas City media market and a blue blood basketball program. I hope the Big 10* takes a pass on Iowa State. There are better fits out there. The Pope needs to tell Notre Dame that they are in the wrong conference (and add back wrestling).

ACC owns Notre Dame until 2036. ND can remain independent in football until then, but can't join another conference.

 

[WreslingFan0314]

IMO the rumored UT/OU move to the SEC isn't gonna happen.
1. SEC is fully in the Texas market, with A&M. Does not need UT nearly as much as UT needs them (and UT absolutely will never admit that).
2. Word is UT sees SEC as academically inferior, and prefers B10 or Pac12. (Coincidentally *cough cough* B10 West and Pac 12 are far easier football than SEC.)
3. SEC apparently gives schools veto rights against expansion within their states. A&M will demand king's ransom to let UT in. If SEC pays that (already having TV coverage across the state), then what do all the other schools demand?
4. Doubt SEC admits OU without another school -- but where would that come from? Clemson doesn't add TVs and would get Cock blocked. Florida will veto FSU and Miami. Maybe UNC or NC State?

PSU is NOT going to the ACC. B10 revenue >>> ACC revenue. Not close. And that's before PSU Athletics revenue dropping $74M this year, and having to re-pay the loans.

TL;DR: UT and OU are squeezing B12. Likely not much more to it than that.

To clarify on #3....

The SEC does not give any individual school the right to veto. 11 of the 14 schools would have to vote for another school to be allowed to enter. In the past, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida and Kentucky agreed to vote against any school within their states, basically playing defense against GA Tech, Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Louisville. Would they join A&M to hold off Texas? It takes 4 schools to veto, not one.

As far as the Longhorn Network goes (mentioned in another post), the SEC would be the easiest fit for Texas as both are ESPN entities. With the Big Ten being owned by Fox it would be much more problematic.

 

[El-Jefe]

To clarify on #3....

The SEC does not give any individual school the right to veto. 11 of the 14 schools would have to vote for another school to be allowed to enter. In the past, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida and Kentucky agreed to vote against any school within their states, basically playing defense against GA Tech, Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Louisville. Would they join A&M to hold off Texas? It takes 4 schools to veto, not one.

As far as the Longhorn Network goes (mentioned in another post), the SEC would be the easiest fit for Texas as both are ESPN entities. With the Big Ten being owned by Fox it would be much more problematic.

The SEC has a "gentlemen's agreement" for the in-state veto. A&M's president who moved them to the SEC (and later was Missouri chancellor) said that it's common knowledge among the member schools and was regularly discussed.

Of course it remains to be seen if the SEC lives up to that unwritten rule.

It would be interesting to see the SEC East schools vote for this. Adding Texas and Oklahoma necessarily moves Alabama into the East. Which means Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee have a lower chance of reaching even an expanded college football playoff each year -- thus less money for themselves.

EDIT: it's also been reported that SEC has talked to Ohio State and Michigan about poaching them. FWIW.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

The SEC has a "gentlemen's agreement" for the in-state veto. A&M's president who moved them to the SEC (and later was Missouri chancellor) said that it's common knowledge among the member schools and was regularly discussed.

Of course it remains to be seen if the SEC lives up to that unwritten rule.

It would be interesting to see the SEC East schools vote for this. Adding Texas and Oklahoma necessarily moves Alabama into the East. Which means Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee have a lower chance of reaching even an expanded college football playoff each year -- thus less money for themselves.

EDIT: it's also been reported that SEC has talked to Ohio State and Michigan about poaching them. FWIW.

That last paragraph is full on Twitter-driven insanity.

 

[Dogwelder]

… it's also been reported that SEC has talked to Ohio State and Michigan about poaching them. FWIW.

First the Midwest poaches Pennsylvania. Now the SEC is circling. It’s a topsy turbulent world!

 

[Cali_Nittany]

ACC owns Notre Dame until 2036. ND can remain independent in football until then, but can't join another conference.

Then perhaps Oklahoma State... Or maybe Boston College.

 

[El-Jefe]

Then perhaps Oklahoma State... Or maybe Boston College.

BC fits the B10 mold. B10 expansion has always been about TV market access.

According to Nielsen (LINK), BC would bring 4.9M homes:

Rank	Market	# Homes
10​	Boston (Manchester)	2,489,620​
32​	Hartford & New Haven	1,002,710​
52​	Providence-New Bedford	619,140​
78​	Portland-Auburn	409,560​
116​	Springfield-Holyoke	257,110​
155​	Bangor	141,120​

OKST brings fewer TV sets than Providence:

Rank	Market	# Homes
61​	Tulsa	552,980​

 

[El-Jefe]

Continuing along those lines ...

The obvious biggest target of them all (in terms of TV homes within its markets) is Texas, with 7M homes. Though some of those markets would include A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, etc., it's hard to imagine that UT would not have at least a share of those markets.

Also note that this does not include Albuquerque (48th, 717k homes). ABQ is littered with Dallas Cowboys fans, so it's quite possible that they would also get a share of Texas games.

Rank	Market	# Homes
5​	Dallas-Ft. Worth	2,962,520​
31​	San Antonio	1,031,180​
38​	Austin	912,400​
93​	El Paso (Las Cruces)	343,530​
110​	Tyler-Longview(Lfkn&Ncgd)	276,520​
130​	Corpus Christi	210,160​
131​	Amarillo	190,340​
138​	Odessa-Midland	173,210​
144​	Beaumont-Port Arthur	168,210​
145​	Lubbock	167,660​
149​	Wichita Falls & Lawton	153,870​
159​	Sherman-Ada	135,390​
165​	Abilene-Sweetwater	116,310​
186​	Laredo	77,640​
197​	San Angelo	58,000​
204​	Victoria	33,490​

 

[El-Jefe]

Of the schools that B10 might someday pursue:
Texas = 7.01M
BC = 4.92M
UNC/NCSU = 3.06M
Syracuse = 2.69M
Miami = 2.56M
Virginia/VT = 2.26M
Missouri = 2.15M
Pitt = 1.17M
WVU = 841k
Oklahoma = 755k (not including Tulsa)

Notre Dame only has 320k homes in its local market -- but averaged 700k viewers per NBC broadcast last year.

 

[tullfan68]

BC fits the B10 mold. B10 expansion has always been about TV market access.

According to Nielsen (LINK), BC would bring 4.9M homes:

Rank	Market	# Homes
10​	Boston (Manchester)	2,489,620​
32​	Hartford & New Haven	1,002,710​
52​	Providence-New Bedford	619,140​
78​	Portland-Auburn	409,560​
116​	Springfield-Holyoke	257,110​
155​	Bangor	141,120​

OKST brings fewer TV sets than Providence:

Rank	Market	# Homes
61​	Tulsa	552,980​

WOW THATS KIND OF HARD TO BELEIVE BUT I LIKE IOWA STATE AND OK STATE OUT OF THE BIG 12 BOTH CAN SCORE AND BRING ACTION TO THE GAME I DONT CARE ABOUT THAT TV CRAP I JUST WANT GOOD GAMES

 

[CurtisLoew40]

God, that’s a garbage conference

In terms of football not much worse than the big ten. Just take out tOSU and it’d be pretty even.

 

[CurtisLoew40]

Continuing along those lines ...

The obvious biggest target of them all (in terms of TV homes within its markets) is Texas, with 7M homes. Though some of those markets would include A&M, Baylor, Texas Tech, etc., it's hard to imagine that UT would not have at least a share of those markets.

Also note that this does not include Albuquerque (48th, 717k homes). ABQ is littered with Dallas Cowboys fans, so it's quite possible that they would also get a share of Texas games.

Rank	Market	# Homes
5​	Dallas-Ft. Worth	2,962,520​
31​	San Antonio	1,031,180​
38​	Austin	912,400​
93​	El Paso (Las Cruces)	343,530​
110​	Tyler-Longview(Lfkn&Ncgd)	276,520​
130​	Corpus Christi	210,160​
131​	Amarillo	190,340​
138​	Odessa-Midland	173,210​
144​	Beaumont-Port Arthur	168,210​
145​	Lubbock	167,660​
149​	Wichita Falls & Lawton	153,870​
159​	Sherman-Ada	135,390​
165​	Abilene-Sweetwater	116,310​
186​	Laredo	77,640​
197​	San Angelo	58,000​
204​	Victoria	33,490​

Television markets have nothing to do with it anymore. With all the cord cutting its all about streaming.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

In terms of football not much worse than the big ten. Just take out tOSU and it’d be pretty even.

 

[creamery freak]

The SEC has a "gentlemen's agreement" for the in-state veto. A&M's president who moved them to the SEC (and later was Missouri chancellor) said that it's common knowledge among the member schools and was regularly discussed.

Of course it remains to be seen if the SEC lives up to that unwritten rule.

It would be interesting to see the SEC East schools vote for this. Adding Texas and Oklahoma necessarily moves Alabama into the East. Which means Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee have a lower chance of reaching even an expanded college football playoff each year -- thus less money for themselves.

EDIT: it's also been reported that SEC has talked to Ohio State and Michigan about poaching them. FWIW.

Can we possibly get the SEC to poach the entire lot of BIG officials? That scenario would be very beneficial to PSU!

 

[El-Jefe]

Television markets have nothing to do with it anymore. With all the cord cutting its all about streaming.

Feel free to look up college football game purchases to bolster your point.

 

[El-Jefe]

WOW THATS KIND OF HARD TO BELEIVE BUT I LIKE IOWA STATE AND OK STATE OUT OF THE BIG 12 BOTH CAN SCORE AND BRING ACTION TO THE GAME I DONT CARE ABOUT THAT TV CRAP I JUST WANT GOOD GAMES

By that logic, B10 should poach whatever school Mike Leach is coaching at any given moment.

 

[dunkej01]

Breaking news

Ou and ut notify b12 they are out 2025.

Bye felicia

 

[Media Fan]

To clarify on #3....

The SEC does not give any individual school the right to veto. 11 of the 14 schools would have to vote for another school to be allowed to enter. In the past, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida and Kentucky agreed to vote against any school within their states, basically playing defense against GA Tech, Clemson, Florida State, Miami and Louisville. Would they join A&M to hold off Texas? It takes 4 schools to veto, not one.

As far as the Longhorn Network goes (mentioned in another post), the SEC would be the easiest fit for Texas as both are ESPN entities. With the Big Ten being owned by Fox it would be much more problematic.

I would be quite surprised if the SEC commissioner has not already figured out if he has the votes to get Texas and Oklahoma into the conference.
Can not imagine them getting rejected and asking the Big XII for permission to reenter that conference.
An iteration of the “ if we offered you, would you accept,” which is used to deny ever have made an offer.

 

[dunkej01]

Report: Oklahoma State actively expressing interest in joining Big Ten

There are reports that Oklahoma State has expressed interest in becoming a new member of the Big Ten

news.yahoo.com

 

[mizzoufan90]

IMO the rumored UT/OU move to the SEC isn't gonna happen.
1. SEC is fully in the Texas market, with A&M. Does not need UT nearly as much as UT needs them (and UT absolutely will never admit that).
2. Word is UT sees SEC as academically inferior, and prefers B10 or Pac12. (Coincidentally *cough cough* B10 West and Pac 12 are far easier football than SEC.)
3. SEC apparently gives schools veto rights against expansion within their states. A&M will demand king's ransom to let UT in. If SEC pays that (already having TV coverage across the state), then what do all the other schools demand?
4. Doubt SEC admits OU without another school -- but where would that come from? Clemson doesn't add TVs and would get Cock blocked. Florida will veto FSU and Miami. Maybe UNC or NC State?

PSU is NOT going to the ACC. B10 revenue >>> ACC revenue. Not close. And that's before PSU Athletics revenue dropping $74M this year, and having to re-pay the loans.

TL;DR: UT and OU are squeezing B12. Likely not much more to it than that.

Good call! Any more predictions?!

 

[El-Jefe]

Good call! Any more predictions?!

Yes -- I predict you'll contribute something meaningful to this board.

 

[mizzoufan90]

Yes -- I predict you'll contribute something meaningful to this board.

You wrote 4 points that were all wrong. That's impressive! Too bad Michigan and Ohio St. will be coming to the SEC as well.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

You wrote 4 points that were all wrong. That's impressive! Too bad Michigan and Ohio St. will be coming to the SEC as well.

 

[diggerpup]

Good call! Any more predictions?!

J’Den Cox medaling at these upcoming Olympics.

 

[El-Jefe]

You wrote 4 points that were all wrong. That's impressive! Too bad Michigan and Ohio St. will be coming to the SEC as well.

^^ in which someone actively roots for his own school's irrelevance.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

You wrote 4 points that were all wrong. That's impressive! Too bad Michigan and Ohio St. will be coming to the SEC as well.

Why would that upset the typical PSU fan? It would allow Penn State the freedom to turn its eyes east again where the vast bulk of its alumni base is. The ACC would grab us in a second. Give me roads trips to Boston, Chapel Hill, CVille, and Atlanta over Midwestern dumps any day

 

[creamery freak]

You wrote 4 points that were all wrong. That's impressive! Too bad Michigan and Ohio St. will be coming to the SEC as well.

If Michigan and Ohio State leave for the SEC, they are probably already petitioning the BIG and SEC to allow the BIG officials to do all of their games. They are privey to favorable calls, you know.

 

[El-Jefe]

If Michigan and Ohio State leave for the SEC, they are probably already petitioning the BIG and SEC to allow the BIG officials to do all of their games. They are privey to favorable calls, you know.

Head Referine Dave Witvoet is looking a little pale, could use more sun.

 

[El-Jefe]

If Michigan and Ohio State leave for the SEC, they are probably already petitioning the BIG and SEC to allow the BIG officials to do all of their games. They are privey to favorable calls, you know.

Merge the B10 and ACC. Hilariously, the merged conference would be shaped like the State of Michigan.

I'd also look forward to SEC schools having to play north of the Ohio River in November. Though I'm sure they'll find a way to keep Alabama and Florida south for the winter. Ice games would be for the lesser programs. We all know who those teams are.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

If Michigan and Ohio State leave for the SEC, they are probably already petitioning the BIG and SEC to allow the BIG officials to do all of their games. They are privey to favorable calls, you know.

They will get so hosed by the SEC refs - and I would cackle in glee