Coaches Poll released - thru 2/6

El-Jefe

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Jul 27, 2012
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RoarLions1

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I can see why RPI (lowering the 15 match requirement) is being discussed by the NCAA Wrestling Committee. A quick look shows about 20-25% (maybe higher) of guys are missing due to lack of matches. Personally not for lowering it, as Silver Standard still applies, so CR and Win % are maybe a tad more important this year.
 
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jmadden1998

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Jan 26, 2017
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And remember, if you look at the RPI and start asking why the rankings are crazy, a wrestler has to have 15 matches against Div 1 competition to be ranked.
 
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johnstownsteel

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Aug 2, 2013
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Johnstown Pa
I can see why RPI (lowering the 15 match requirement) is being discussed by the NCAA Wrestling Committee. A quick look shows about 20-25% (maybe higher) of guys are missing due to lack of matches. Personally not for lowering it, as Silver Standard still applies, so CR and Win % are maybe a tad more important this year.
How do the coaches decide on who to rank. For instance, Edsell over Berge at 165. I’m ignorant as to how this works.
 

jmadden1998

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How do the coaches decide on who to rank. For instance, Edsell over Berge at 165. I’m ignorant as to how this works.
The coaches’ rankings are determined by a vote of 14 coaches in each weight class with two head coaches from each of the seven conference. For ranking purposes, coaches may only consider a wrestler that has been designated as a starter at a respective weight class. Wrestlers must have five Division I matches in the weight class to be considered with at least one within the last 30 days.
 
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Fink

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Jul 30, 2001
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Some head scratchers in the Coaches Rankings:

Some examples:

125 -- 6 - Mastro 12-1 best wins McKee and Teske, 7- Cardinale 9-1 best win Teske, 15 - Terukina 17-1 beat both Mastro and Cardinale.

149 -- 7 Gomez (13-1) behind Lovett (15-2) who he beat.

285 Parris over Kerk.

Hard to explain how you can rank someone ahead of someone they lost to when records are the same.
 
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jmadden1998

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Cohlton Schultz' best win is over a 15th ranked kid from Wyoming. Someone needs to explain to me how he gets #2 ranking.
Send your inquiries to these coaches who are assigned to vote for the Heavyweights

Coleman Scott
Pat Popolizio
Damian Hahn
Doug Schwab
Alex Clemsen
Roger Chandler
Pat Santoro
Kyle Borshoff
John Hangey
Jeremy Spates
Neil Ermisan
Chris Pendleton
Ryan Leblanc
JonMark Bentley
 

RoarLions1

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How do the coaches decide on who to rank. For instance, Edsell over Berge at 165. I’m ignorant as to how this works.
PSU Coaches decide, but it could change at any time. jmadden has been doing his homework about the process, his stuff above is correct. The PSU Coaches provide their ranking for weight classes 165 and 197 (just happens that 165 is one of their weight classes.).
 

jmadden1998

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JTNPSU84

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Jan 5, 2019
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Madden you are like a walking encyclopedia. I love that people with that much knowledge are on this board I learn something everyday
Wonder if it is possible to create a sticky thread that has links to these fantastic resources like the one above.
 

slushhead

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Mar 10, 2014
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How many of the coaches do you think actually study the weights they're assigned?

Forget Schultz at 2 -- how is Kerk behind Parris with a head to head win + 2x more quality wins?
Kerk behind Parris = voters just saying “I don’t care about results, I just think Parris is better.”

Luckily, the fate of Kerk’s seed at Nationals is still in his own hands.
 

jschrantz

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Jan 20, 2004
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Kerk behind Parris = voters just saying “I don’t care about results, I just think Parris is better.”

Luckily, the fate of Kerk’s seed at Nationals is still in his own hands.
Exactly , Kerk needs to learn how to get off bottom vs Tony Cass , can he solve this issue? Not sure. yes I know this is captain obvious , sorry
 

McScoreley

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Exactly , Kerk needs to learn how to get off bottom vs Tony Cass , can he solve this issue? Not sure. yes I know this is captain obvious , sorry
Cass used a very technical ride to perfection. He didn't simply just put his weight on Kerk last year. I mistakenly thought it would be easier for Kerk to get out from under him since Cass lost 30 pounds. Kerk had no issues getting out from similar sized heavies (and didn't have issues under Parris) Luckily, the ride Cass uses can be replicated in practice. Another solution is just don't get taken down lol.
 

nerfstate

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Cass used a very technical ride to perfection. He didn't simply just put his weight on Kerk last year. I mistakenly thought it would be easier for Kerk to get out from under him since Cass lost 30 pounds. Kerk had no issues getting out from similar sized heavies (and didn't have issues under Parris) Luckily, the ride Cass uses can be replicated in practice. Another solution is just don't get taken down lol.
I’m not a fan of that “active thigh pry” ride, but several of the Iowa guys are quite good at it.

Not really a turning set up, but then neither is the western ride (ankle hooked) our guys favor.
 

McScoreley

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I’m not a fan of that “active thigh pry” ride, but several of the Iowa guys are quite good at it.

Not really a turning set up, but then neither is the western ride (ankle hooked) our guys favor.
People don't like our ankle hook ride either (props for mentioning it). Every school has a ride taught in the room designed to just accumulate riding time without attempting turns. Fans want to complain but there's a counter to every ride and it's up to the coaches to teach their wrestlers how to get out. Like I said, I'm sure Cael and crew (Snyder, Varner, Francisco) will be running it on Kerk in the coming weeks.
 
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GogglesPaizano

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I agree. It should be closely fashioned like Wrestlestat.
Is it more of a blind vote or do they discuss the inputs on an open forum?

They should enter the coaches pool process with a pre-populated mathematical model, and then adjust from there. I also think they should have to justify the adjustments.

I don't like popularity contests, and for sure where records are close to equal, head to head should take precedence. To ignore head to head as a tie breaker of sorry is just plain bad business (i.e. Wick vs Griffith).
 

pawrestlersintn

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Jan 26, 2013
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Is it more of a blind vote or do they discuss the inputs on an open forum?

They should enter the coaches pool process with a pre-populated mathematical model, and then adjust from there. I also think they should have to justify the adjustments.

I don't like popularity contests, and for sure where records are close to equal, head to head should take precedence. To ignore head to head as a tie breaker of sorry is just plain bad business (i.e. Wick vs Griffith).
Good Lord. No one has developed an alternative algorithm for WS, and now you're expecting someone to come up with one for coaches' rankings?
 

Cowbell Man

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Feb 2, 2002
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Is it more of a blind vote or do they discuss the inputs on an open forum?

They should enter the coaches pool process with a pre-populated mathematical model, and then adjust from there. I also think they should have to justify the adjustments.

I don't like popularity contests, and for sure where records are close to equal, head to head should take precedence. To ignore head to head as a tie breaker of sorry is just plain bad business (i.e. Wick vs Griffith).
If there is a tie to break, then head to head will matter in the seeding sessions.
 

KCLion

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Jun 8, 2001
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PSU Coaches decide, but it could change at any time. jmadden has been doing his homework about the process, his stuff above is correct. The PSU Coaches provide their ranking for weight classes 165 and 197 (just happens that 165 is one of their weight classes.).
165 one of PSU weight classes, Edsel listed as starter, hmmmm.
 
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