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Coach Limegrover (siap)

Good for Coach Limegrover. By all accounts he is a good man. We've had worse coaches at PSU who lasted a very long time.

Yep, Coach Franklin brought him to PSU to try and make PSU football better and Limegrover seems like he tried his best to do just that. And it is a reasonable assumption that Limegrover was the best OL coach that Franklin could find at the time he hired him. But some won't recognize contributions that don't result in PSU making a run of MNC's......
 
Dick Anderson and Bill Kenney come to mind for me. If you’re referring to OL coaches.

OL
I understand your point but when he was in his 40’s and 50’s Dick Anderson was a monster. We cranked out top OL like an assembly line.

The trouble was Dick got older, slowed down, never updated his teaching/coaching and stopped recruiting. Completely unacceptable.

For as much as we all love his boss, and justifiably so, this was a catastrophic error.

We had a lot of guys who hung around too long, and a couple who had no business getting started.
 
Dick Anderson and Bill Kenney come to mind for me. If you’re referring to OL coaches.

OL
Yet the last time I heard Mike Munchak speak about OL play he went out of his way to praise Dick Anderson. He didn’t need to, Dick wasn’t there, Mike was well established in the pros yet he took 2-3 minutes to praise Dick. Some on here give the guy a bad wrap when they don’t know what they are taking about
 
Yet the last time I heard Mike Munchak speak about OL play he went out of his way to praise Dick Anderson. He didn’t need to, Dick wasn’t there, Mike was well established in the pros yet he took 2-3 minutes to praise Dick. Some on here give the guy a bad wrap when they don’t know what they are taking about

+1. Bill Kenney was also better than some think. I"m not sure when the shift happened but at some point we starting recruiting nothing but guards and turned them, or tried to, into OT's.
 
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Yes, this is what I was referring to. Still shoulder blocking and “throwing the flipper” was outdated in the 90’s.
I agree with your points.

Ol
Ah no. It’s back in vogue go watch Andy Heck or before he retired Danta Scarnecicca (sp?) teach a double team
Shoulder to shoulder, don’t get split, they call it the Rae Crowther drill
 
Yet the last time I heard Mike Munchak speak about OL play he went out of his way to praise Dick Anderson. He didn’t need to, Dick wasn’t there, Mike was well established in the pros yet he took 2-3 minutes to praise Dick. Some on here give the guy a bad wrap when they don’t know what they are taking about
Being respected by HOF offensive lineman, means nothing to the football experts here.
 
Whomever the Wisconsin o-line coach is, just copy what he does.
I don’t know of any team with fewer “ lots of stars guys” who does as well as they do.
 
Whomever the Wisconsin o-line coach is, just copy what he does.
I don’t know of any team with fewer “ lots of stars guys” who does as well as they do.
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Joe Rudolph is the Associate Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator and Offensive Line Coach at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Prior to this position he was the interim head coach and offensive coordinator of the University of Pittsburgh Panthers football team.[1][2] He is a former guard in the National Football League for both the San Francisco 49ers and the Philadelphia Eagles.[3]

Who would you Choose
 
But some won't recognize contributions that don't result in PSU making a run of MNC's......
Actually, most would have been happy to see Limegrover turn all those high-end recruits into something more than a pedestrian, mediocre line. Next year was always the year we were finally going to have a dominant line. Under his watch, that year never came. Perhaps the problem was less with getting players to execute his strategy, but the strategy itself.
 
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Actually, most would have been happy to see Limegrover turn all those high-end recruits into something more than a pedestrian, mediocre line. Next year was always the year we were finally going to have a dominant line. Under his watch, that year never came. Perhaps the problem was less with getting players to execute his strategy, but the strategy itself.

What "high end recruits" are you talking about? Tell us when PSU had even four mid to high 4 star OL recruits on the roster let alone 4 or 5 seasoned mid 4 star upperclassman players that could form a formidable experienced OL. The OL's of the best teams are made up of 4 and 5 star players at each of the 5 OL positions. The players he was trying to coach up were mainly pedestrian and mediocre as recruits. Oh-high-ya, and some times Michigan, fielded actual high end recruits on their DL's that were high end players which naturally made PSU's OL look like the collection of mediocre players they were.

Until Franklin and our OL coach can recruit less 3 star and more 4 and 5 star OL recruits it will be an up hill battle to field a top oline at PSU.
 
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Anyone else curious how PSU ranks 9th in all time college victories, yet they've never had a coach worthy of respect ?
 
What "high end recruits" are you talking about? Tell us when PSU had even four mid 4 star OL recruits on the roster let alone 4 or 5 seasoned mid 4 star players that could form a formidable OL. The OL's of the best teams are made up of 4 and 5 star players at each of the 5 OL positions. The players he was trying to coach up were mainly pedestrian and mediocre as recruits. Oh-high-ya, and some times Michigan, fielded actual high end recruits on their DL's that were high end players which naturally made PSU's OL look like the collection of mediocre players they were.

Until Franklin and our OL coach can recruit less 3 star and more 4 and 5 star OL recruits it will be an up hill battle to field a top oline at PSU.
Limegrover had plenty to work with... Our 2016 OL class alone was one of the best in the nation (McGovern, Menet, Fries - all high end recruits). He had other 4 stars to work with as well during his tenure - Bates, Gonzalez (4 star on 247), Thorpe etc. None of these were mediocre recruits, although it was disappointing that Limegrover couldn't seem to move the needle on our 3 stars.

Franklin saw the need to move on. Save your apologies for the next underperforming coach.
 
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Anyone else curious how PSU ranks 9th in all time college victories, yet they've never had a coach worthy of respect ?
Wish I could give you 100 likes for this one. Joe won 409 games, can you imagine how many he could have won if he knew what he was doing???
 
Limegrover had plenty to work with... Our 2016 OL class alone was one of the best in the nation (McGovern, Menet, Fries - all high end recruits). He had other 4 stars to work with as well during his tenure - Bates, Gonzalez (4 star on 247), Thorpe etc. None of these were mediocre recruits, although it was disappointing that Limegrover couldn't seem to move the needle on our 3 stars.

Franklin saw the need to move on. Save your apologies for the next underperforming coach.

You declared them HIGH END RECRUITS because they came to PSU??

Menet, .9818 247 composite, yes HIGH END RECRUIT

McGovern, .9080 NOT a high end recruit. A LOW 4 star recruit.

Fries, .8761, NOT a high end recruit. A mid 3 star recruit.

That same year OSU brought in
Jordan, .9411
Pridgeon, .9329
Gerald, .9294

Gonzalez was rated .8911 on the 247 composite, about the lowest a player can be and still be 4 star. Not a "high end recruit", if you plan to compete with OSU, UM and other good teams. But actually Limegrover did a good job with Gonzalez as he began to coach Gonzalez in Gonzo's 2nd year at PSU and Gonzo was a very good player for PSU and I believe got some time in the NFL.

Looking at what Limegrover had to work with, it makes sense to go back to the classes that were at PSU when he got to PSU. Clearly they were not high end OL recruits, so it seems that Limegrover did a pretty outstanding job putting together an OL that was good enough for PSU to beat OSU, Wisky and become B10 champions.

In 2013:
PSU: (3) .9047, .8725, .8307
OSU: (1) .9662

In 2014
PSU: (4) .8674, .8457, .8409, .8234
OSU: (5) .9708, .9547, .9010, .8806, .8618

In 2015:
PSU: .9303 (Bates), .9159 (Jenkins, a bust), .9050 (JC Palmer - over rated), .8911 (Gonzalez). On paper this looked like a very good group, but Jenkins didn't even make his high school all conference team and Palmer showed up at PSU needing significant strength and weight gain, more like a high school recruit than a ready to play incoming JC player.
OSU: .9533, .9509, .8727, .8699

Clearly OSU is that standard for OL play in the B10, and going forward from 2016 Limegrover had on average much lower rated OL recruits than what the OSU OL coach had to work with.

In 2017
PSU's OL recruits: (4) Thorpe .9584 (Obviously over rated), .8747, .8595. 8488
OSU's OL recruits: (3) .9876, .9757, .8985

In 2018
PSU: (3) that played) .9676(Walker), .9484 (Asiedu), .9118 (Scruggs), .8709
Probably Franklin's best OL class with Asiedu, but he had to give up football when he arrived on campus. As I remember PSU got Scruggs because OSU ran out of OL openings after players higher on their board committed.
OSU: (3) .9963. .9652, .9473

In 2019
PSU (2) (what the new coach has to work with - only 2 legit 4/5 year recruits): .9627, .9034 (JC Whigan - Over Rated), .9027
OSU: (4) .9868, .9445, .9031, 0.8527
Limegrover was hired in January 2016.

Most here realize that to put a comparable OL on the field to what OSU has you have to recruit as good, or at least nearly as good, of OL talent. Believing that a team can bring in a collection of 3 and low 4 star OL recruits will not result in an OSU level OL. Or current Clemson, OU, Bama,.... OL. The Pitt board if full of their fans believing that Duzzy can "coach them up" to be better than more athletic players on the better teams. Yes, good coaching can put together a better unit overall performance wise than what the weaker players in that unit should be expected to perform at. But the problem for PSU is that OSU and the current elite teams spare no expense on their coaching staffs, and believing that PSU can significantly surpass OSU in player development is unrealistic. Franklin has been a great talent identifier, and each year we see him identify players early in the recruiting cycle that blow up later and become great college players (like Fields). But so far Franklin hasn't been that great identifying OL players, as the list of busts among even his higher rated PSU OL recruits is long (Jenkins, Palmer, Thorpe, Whigan,...). And some of the PSU higher rated OL recruits did not have the offer sheets that their rating would normally warrant. It is reasonable to believe that if Asiedu had been able to play football for PSU the PSU OL of the last couple years would have been better, possibly saving Limegrover's PSU tenure as well.......

I just believe you are off base with you comments, and we will have to agree to disagree.

Cheers!
 
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Wish I could give you 100 likes for this one. Joe won 409 games, can you imagine how many he could have won if he knew what he was doing???
LOL....."I loved Joe...but"
he stayed too long
he didn't recruit
he hired his idiot son
he never had an assistant that anyone else would ever want
Blah, blah, blah. I love expert But fans.
In the 70s Joe had some the greatest defensive teams college football has ever seen.
I recall going to clinics and spring practices trying to absorb the nuances of how he took the old wide tackle six and created the split 4. Those were the days when Joe was the clinician.
In 94 he had what many still believe was the greatest offensive team in the history of CFB. He was robbed of 2 national titles. By the way, keep your seatbelt on.....he did all of this without the whisper of an NCAA violation. Let that sink in.....even that CS Freeh couldn't find anything on him.
Yeah, Joe was great.....but.....
How ironic that about the only coach who gets any props here is FLO. LOL, makes you scratch your head.
 
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At the time Munchak played, as @Fox Chapel Lion II pointed out, Anderson was good. As he also pointed out, “The trouble was Dick got older, slowed down, never updated his teaching/coaching and stopped recruiting. Completely unacceptable.”

OL
@OhioLion not to beat a dead horse but here are some relatively new clips I found. IMO watching these clips is better than watching reruns of Mash or something!! in some ways it seems what is old is new again! Frankly I was a little surprised by this too. Its not everyone current thinking...





this goes to other comment about Dick Anderson...
 
I understand your point but when he was in his 40’s and 50’s Dick Anderson was a monster. We cranked out top OL like an assembly line.

The trouble was Dick got older, slowed down, never updated his teaching/coaching and stopped recruiting. Completely unacceptable.

For as much as we all love his boss, and justifiably so, this was a catastrophic error.

We had a lot of guys who hung around too long, and a couple who had no business getting started.

Talent/recruiting also dropped off late in Dick's career. A lot easier to coach up guys that are naturally gifted.
 
@OhioLion not to beat a dead horse but here are some relatively new clips I found. IMO watching these clips is better than watching reruns of Mash or something!! in some ways it seems what is old is new again! Frankly I was a little surprised by this too. Its not everyone current thinking...





this goes to other comment about Dick Anderson...
I looked up zone blocking and saw similar technique. Still plenty of hands and arms extended, but, yes, shoulder blocking returning in some cases.
Coach Ferentz spoke at the Ohio HS clinic a few years back. Interesting he said they don’t use blocking sleds at all. All bodies on bodies.
Thanks for the clips.

OL
 
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