Chambers is still the right coach

[Harbaughsleepovers]

When in the history of Penn State basketball has a 14-8 record been a poor record when the team is led by sophomores? Losing Reaves hurt.

Before Chambers’ arrival kids like Carr, Stevens, Watkins and Reaves would never have ever considered Penn State. Getting them was not an overnight process.

Chambers has laid a foundation and we have two really solid players coming in next year as well.

This is not a destination job. You get someone in here to win with the current roster, they are gone almost immediately.

I’m just not seeing what a coaching change accomplishes considering the difficulty of the job and the progress that has been made in recruiting.

If guys leave early for the NBA, that helps recruiting.

I’ll admit that Chambers may have PTSD at the end of games because of what he’s had to endure for 7 years, but Chambers has created a floor over the last 4 years that is .500 basketball. That is serious progress at a place like Penn State.

When you consider the fan support at games and the kind of coach that would be interested given the extreme difficulty with the job, why would you blow it up now?

 

[bdgan]

When in the history of Penn State basketball has a 14-8 record been a poor record when the team is led by sophomores? Losing Reaves hurt.

Before Chambers’ arrival kids like Carr, Stevens, Watkins and Reaves would never have ever considered Penn State. Getting them was not an overnight process.

Chambers has laid a foundation and we have two really solid players coming in next year as well.

This is not a destination job. You get someone in here to win with the current roster, they are gone almost immediately.

I’m just not seeing what a coaching change accomplishes considering the difficulty of the job and the progress that has been made in recruiting.

If guys leave early for the NBA, that helps recruiting.

I’ll admit that Chambers may have PTSD at the end of games because of what he’s had to endure for 7 years, but Chambers has created a floor that over the last 4 years that is .500 basketball. That is serious progress at a place like Penn State.

When you consider the fan support at games and the kind of coach that would be interested given the extreme difficulty with the job, why would you blow it up now?

I like Pat but he isn't getting the most out of this team. Tonight's win was nice but it was too similar to other games where the team blew big leads. Poor defense, poor blocking out, fouling to stop the clock when we had a big lead, no movement on offense, etc. Blew a late 12 pt lead but were bailed out by Carr's 40' banked in 3 pt shot.

P.S. Poor fan support is largely due to poor team play. They'd come if PSU was top 6 in the BiG.

 

[Lion8286]

I like Pat but he isn't getting the most out of this team. Tonight's win was nice but it was too similar to other games where the team blew big leads. Poor defense, poor blocking out, fouling to stop the clock when we had a big lead, no movement on offense, etc. Blew a late 12 pt lead but were bailed out by Carr's 40' banked in 3 pt shot.

P.S. Poor fan support is largely due to poor team play. They'd come if PSU was top 6 in the BiG.

The wet blanket returns!!

 

[Harbaughsleepovers]

I like Pat but he isn't getting the most out of this team. Tonight's win was nice but it was too similar to other games where the team blew big leads. Poor defense, poor blocking out, fouling to stop the clock when we had a big lead, no movement on offense, etc. Blew a late 12 pt lead but were bailed out by Carr's 40' banked in 3 pt shot.

P.S. Poor fan support is largely due to poor team play. They'd come if PSU was top 6 in the BiG.

They won their 3rd game ever at Ohio State who was 9-0 in the Big 10. They played really well, Ohio State made every shot late.

What is Penn State’s budget for a head basketball coach and the assistants that coach would want to hire?

What is Pat paid relative to the rest of the coaches in the league?

Firing Chambers is just firing the coach just for the sake of firing the coach.

 

[Art]

They won their 3rd game ever at Ohio State who was 9-0 in the Big 10. They played really well, Ohio State made every shot late.

What is Penn State’s budget for a head basketball coach and the assistants that coach would want to hire?

What is Pat paid relative to the rest of the coaches in the league?

Firing Chambers is just firing the coach just for the sake of firing the coach.

Budget? It doesn't work that way. First, the AD has to decide if it wants winning basketball. If yes, then select a coach who can win (even if it means kissing a bunch of frogs before one turns into a prince). Pay what you need to get him and then pay for performance going forward.

If PSU has a cap on what it's willing to pay basketball coaches, then it will never be better than mediocre. Suspect we'll know soon enough what Barbour's goals for the program afre.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Budget? It doesn't work that way. First, the AD has to decide if it wants winning basketball. If yes, then select a coach who can win (even if it means kissing a bunch of frogs before one turns into a prince). Pay what you need to get him and then pay for performance going forward.

If PSU has a cap on what it's willing to pay basketball coaches, then it will never be better than mediocre. Suspect we'll know soon enough what Barbour's goals for the program afre.

And somewhere on an Indiana forum, someone is posting "winning at football is easy, we just need the AD to decide we want to win and write a blank check to a great coach. Then, we'll be competing for championships in no time".

If only the real world were that easy...

 

[PSU-PITT/NY]

When in the history of Penn State basketball has a 14-8 record been a poor record when the team is led by sophomores? Losing Reaves hurt.

Before Chambers’ arrival kids like Carr, Stevens, Watkins and Reaves would never have ever considered Penn State. Getting them was not an overnight process.

Chambers has laid a foundation and we have two really solid players coming in next year as well.

This is not a destination job. You get someone in here to win with the current roster, they are gone almost immediately.

I’m just not seeing what a coaching change accomplishes considering the difficulty of the job and the progress that has been made in recruiting.

If guys leave early for the NBA, that helps recruiting.

I’ll admit that Chambers may have PTSD at the end of games because of what he’s had to endure for 7 years, but Chambers has created a floor over the last 4 years that is .500 basketball. That is serious progress at a place like Penn State.

When you consider the fan support at games and the kind of coach that would be interested given the extreme difficulty with the job, why would you blow it up now?

My feelings on Chambers.

He needs to stay on until his star players have had an opportunity to mature and graduate.

I would also add that, Ferry was just hired at the beginning of the basketball season, I think like August 2017. If Joe Moorehead had come to PSU just 2 months before the football season, how successful do you think PSU Football would have been in 2016 and 2017 ? What I'm saying is that PSU must have Ferry on board for at least 1.5 years to properly start to develop team chemistry and cohesion with Chambers and the new players.

IT'S NOT ABOUT Chambers being on board for 7 years. It's about when did he start to put the essential building blocks in place to establish a really competitive program. For my money, Chambers time clock does not start until 2016, when he finally was able to erase the past by bringing in a top echelon foundation group of players.

His next phase of development is to build some cohesion and chemistry within his Coaching staff, brick by brick. Remember, it took him 5 years to bring in a top rated class out of Philly - my home town. (I grew up watching Chamberlain, of the Phila Wariors/76'rs, play Russel from Boston at Convention Hall.)

No matter how you look at it, after 7 years, that's progress..!! Don't throw out the baby with the milk.!!!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will
take care of themselves" - Joe Paterno

 

[Harbaughsleepovers]

My feelings on Chambers.

He needs to stay on until his star players have had an opportunity to mature and graduate.

I would also add that, Ferry was just hired at the beginning of the basketball season, I think like August 2017. If Joe Moorehead had come to PSU just 2 months before the football season, how successful do you think PSU Football would have been in 2016 and 2017 ? What I'm saying is that PSU must have Ferry on board for at least 1.5 years to properly start to develop team chemistry and cohesion with Chambers and the new players.

IT'S NOT ABOUT Chambers being on board for 7 years. It's about when did he start to put the essential building blocks in place to establish a really competitive program. For my money, Chambers time clock does not start until 2016, when he finally was able to erase the past by bringing in a top echelon foundation group of players.

His next phase of development is to build some cohesion and chemistry within his Coaching staff, brick by brick. Remember, it took him 5 years to bring in a top rated class out of Philly - my home town. (I grew up watching Chamberlain, of the Phila Wariors/76'rs, play Russel from Boston at Convention Hall.)

No matter how you look at it, after 7 years, that's progress..!! Don't throw out the baby with the milk.!!!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will
take care of themselves" - Joe Paterno

Exactly, it’s all relative.

I’ve said this on the board before. Jay Wright inherited an experienced team at Villanova that barely missed the NCAA Tournament the year before. He recruited the #2 recruiting class in the country his first year.

That #2 rated recruiting class played .500 basketball their freshman and sophomore years and people were calling Jay Wright an empty suit. They didn’t get over the hump till their junior years.

It was possible for Jay to recruit well immediately, that wasn’t going to be possible at Penn State. Prior staffs didn’t even recruit Philly.

It’s never made any sense to me to judge Chambers on results that were largely out of
his control and to hold those wasted years against him when the program is finally starting to turn the corner with the young players his staff worked so hard to get on campus..

Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[harjeff]

....but if Carr leaves after this year then what? I have seen some Mocks that have Carr as a potential first round selection. I think Carr needs more time to learn how to be a point guard before bolting, but when money comes calling it may throw a big wrench in the plans. Carr shows flashes of brilliance followed by a bunch of bone head decisions, shots, plays as he tries to do too much.

 

[Art]

And somewhere on an Indiana forum, someone is posting "winning at football is easy, we just need the AD to decide we want to win and write a blank check to a great coach. Then, we'll be competing for championships in no time".

If only the real world were that easy...

I re-read my post three times and nowhere in it did I see that I used the word "easy." Nor did I say that initially a "blank check" would have to be written in order to find a coach who can eventually win. But accepting mediocre results pretty much guarantees that your program won't.

 

[Delco Lion]

....but if Carr leaves after this year then what? I have seen some Mocks that have Carr as a potential first round selection. I think Carr needs more time to learn how to be a point guard before bolting, but when money comes calling it may throw a big wrench in the plans. Carr shows flashes of brilliance followed by a bunch of bone head decisions, shots, plays as he tries to do too much.

If he's smart, he will wait another year before entering the draft. Now, he's at the tailend of the first round, or well into the second.

 

[tboyer]

I’m just not seeing what a coaching change accomplishes considering the difficulty of the job and the progress that has been made in recruiting.

Yeah, the situation with PSU and Chambers reminds me of where Minnesota football was with Glen Mason.

Mason stayed 9 years, gradually improving recruiting and coaching, upgraded the whole program to the point where they weren't a laughingstock, they were a .500 team in the B1G that went to bowls and occasionally beat the likes of Penn State (don't we remember) and Michigan.

But a bunch of Minnesota boosters and brain trust were dissatisfied and thought they could do better. Their genius AD thought they could be a top 10 program if he fired Mason and replaced him with ... Tim Brewster. Well the whole thing fell apart, Minnesota became a laughingstock again and Brewster and the genius AD lasted about 3 years.

The Minny program has had ups and downs but has never again approached where they were under Mason. Sure, there were plenty of things to dislike about Mason such as his obvious lust for bigger jobs. (Which by the way is not a problem with Chambers -- Chambers seems fully committed to PSU). But there is absolutely no question in hindsight that firing Mason was a mistake.

The hardest task in all of sports is to take a program with a losing tradition and make it competitive in a sustained way. It actually happened at Wisconsin but it almost never happens.

Chambers might be on the brink of accomplishing it at PSU or maybe it will just be tantalizingly close for a few more years until he finally gets exhausted and quits. But I'm not sure why PSU fans would be in a hurry about it at this point. Why not enjoy the ride and see where it goes.

There certainly is zero evidence that replacing Chambers would put PSU on a more successful trajectory. In fact if Chambers leaves or is fired, that probably shoots PSU's credibility in the Philadelphia area for another generation or two of players.

 

[The_Unit]

Recruiting is only half the battle. He’s a terrible in game coach. His whole offense this year revolves around Carr shooting the ball every possession. He needs to go. Think Charlie Weis, but a smaller version and not as good as recruiting.

 

[Lavar5150]

Sorry he is a bad coach.

 

[VaNtyLion]

I like Pat but he isn't getting the most out of this team. Tonight's win was nice but it was too similar to other games where the team blew big leads. Poor defense, poor blocking out, fouling to stop the clock when we had a big lead, no movement on offense, etc. Blew a late 12 pt lead but were bailed out by Carr's 40' banked in 3 pt shot.

P.S. Poor fan support is largely due to poor team play. They'd come if PSU was top 6 in the BiG.

Just some random thoughts....

- I've been a Chambers supporter but after the NW game I had the first notion that it may just not be meant to be for him at PSU. When a coach loses the team it's a very big problem and although I didn't actually watch that game, that was my biggest fear in the aftermath.

- The compete level of the team seems to alleviate that concern. Rarely do these guys just come out and go through the motions. Pat still has the team, their focus and their attention. Chambers is a fighter and that's a personality this program needs.

- With Reeves, the outlook over the past month is SIGNIFICANTLY more positive. His presence in the lineup is the difference b/w being 4-5 in conference vs. 6-3 or even 7-2. It's not a knock on Carr or Stevens to say they're somewhat too quiet in demeanor when a team needs a bit of an energy boost (it's just personality, perhaps)....but the group seems to play a lot more amped up when 23 is in the lineup. That type of energy when going through a rough stretch is needed.

 

[psu1969a]

....but if Carr leaves after this year then what? I have seen some Mocks that have Carr as a potential first round selection. I think Carr needs more time to learn how to be a point guard before bolting, but when money comes calling it may throw a big wrench in the plans. Carr shows flashes of brilliance followed by a bunch of bone head decisions, shots, plays as he tries to do too much.

Carr is not ready for the NBA. Skills needs to play nice with others.

 

[Erial_Lion]

P.S. Poor fan support is largely due to poor team play. They'd come if PSU was top 6 in the BiG.

So now that fans can see a PSU team that's one of the top 6 in the B1G, what will we see for a crowd on Thursday night when we host the 8th ranked team in the country (and conference leader)? Sold out? 13k?

 

[Obliviax]

Basketball is about the talent on the floor. There is a reason why the best talented teams make it to the final four year in and year out. And, it is typically one or two A+ players and a bunch of role players. PSU hasn't had an A+ player since Tim Frazier. And at 6-1, was probably never more than a B+ player anyway.

...and what aspiring NBA player wants to play for PSU? Then only guys to put together a decent NBA career were Bob Weiss (1965), Frank Brickowski (1981) and Calvin Booth (1999). Not exactly household names.

Chambers has had to build a program from dead zero with a lot going against him. For the first time in many years, PSU will not finish near the bottom of the B1G. And, with only one senior and some good talent coming in, you've got to extend him and give him more time.

Recruiting, for three stars which is where Chamber and PSU are, is a crap shoot. Reading about Larry Nance Jr who had one Div 1-A offer (and this for a kid who's dad's number is retired at an NBA team). Kid was 6-1 as a Soph, and 6-4 as a Jr. His senior year he was 6-5 and ~ 200 lbs (skinny as a rail). Today, he is 6-9 230 and can jump through the gym. He is averaging 18.2PPG in the NBA. David Robinson was a 6-4 sr in high school who ended up being 7-1. To get the talent, you have to be a top ten program (K, Duke, NC, NC State, MSU, OSU, Michigan, Louisville, UCLA, Syracuse...) or get lucky.