Chambers bat signal up...

Discussion in 'BWI / McAndrew Board' started by WPTLION, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Ranger Dan

    Ranger Dan Well-Known Member
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    If you are referring to all of us being in agreement, then, no, we are not in agreement. Chambers has this program performing and visibility wise at the highest point in my 51 year lifetime. Because some people have grandiose expectations for more or sooner, doesn’t mean that it is realistic.
     
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  2. GregInPitt

    GregInPitt Well-Known Member
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    And because it has not been done does not mean it is UNrealistic......
     
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  3. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    First sentence incorrect. You got it on your second guess.
     
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  4. Ian

    Ian Well-Known Member
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    Kelly will be a very nice recruit with a good outside shot. Tsimbila will be looked upon much differently this time next year and will be an inside presence by his second season. Add an athletic forward and a nice point guard and it will be a very good class. So says my tarot cards!
     
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  5. bison13

    bison13 Well-Known Member
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    While still not great, much better schedule for PSU in terms of the lack of Q4 teams. I forgot about going to 20 conference games this year so depending on which teams you get twice, they should be assured of a much better SOS this year.

    I see PSU as the favorite in at least 8 (the first 3 you mentioned above as not) need 9-2 then a 10-10 in conf plus 2 tourney wins would be 21-13 and on the bubble again. I would hope those are minimums at this point.

    As far was the recruits they will end up being rated more than 0 stars, the big kid from today will be at least 3 based on his summer and BCl league work. The kid from VA didnt get out on the big AAU curcuit which is where you have to be seen.
     
  6. fairfaxlion2

    fairfaxlion2 Well-Known Member
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    Well we have no idea what the buyout situation is; actually we really have no idea of Pat's salary. I would guess that the terms for ending this contract early are favorable to PSU. He did win the NIT but that's it.
     
  7. BarkleyPSU1

    BarkleyPSU1 Well-Known Member
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    PSU fans trying to justify their basketball recruiting sound like Pitt fans trying to justify their football recruiting
     
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  8. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    His buyout is his base times the number of years remaining on his contract. Even Barbour isn't dumb enough to dick (poor choice of word) around with that. And you're right, we don't know the amount even though PSU said the details would be released, which leads me to believe it is probably embarrassing(ly low).
     
  9. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Or that their head coach is actually any good.
     
  10. Ranger Dan

    Ranger Dan Well-Known Member
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    I’d say Some of the unrealistic expectations of Penn State fans remind me of Pitt firing Dave Wanstedt and running Walt Harris out of town.
     
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  11. fairfaxlion2

    fairfaxlion2 Well-Known Member
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    If I recall correctly, though, PSU did mess around with exactly that parameter when they gave Jerry Dunn his last extension. I believe they were able to let him go cheaply. So it is not unprecedented. The fact that they exercised that option in order to pursue Ed DeChellis is another story... that probably was unprecedented.
     
  12. fairfaxlion2

    fairfaxlion2 Well-Known Member
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    No, it is not unreasonable at all. Pat can now go on the recruiting trail and say that two of his players are in the NBA. Of course, both are guards, but still this should help with any type of player. Actually, it should help much more than even a 1st or 2nd round NCAA appearance. If recruiting is falling off again, that is not good.
     
  13. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Ancient history and no one from that episode is around.

    Dicking around with stuff like that is just plain stupid, The current guy thinks that the school fvcked him over, which is not exactly an attitude for success. And you can be sure that at some point it gets broadcast to to the coaching fraternity, which doesn't help future hiring.

    Hey, maybe that's why we haven't seen details of Chambers' contract and Barbour is dummershit than even I thought.
     
  14. fairfaxlion2

    fairfaxlion2 Well-Known Member
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    I agree with you, now that I think about it. In the '01-'02 and '02-'03 seasons, PSU was ridiculously bad. Dunn may have just become disgruntled at his boss and stopped trying. And, it is indeed ancient history. Although I do think that two year period, plus the next hire, was the sequence of events that screwed the program up almost beyond repair.
     
  15. Norm Petersin

    Norm Petersin Well-Known Member
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    Are you kidding me Pat recruits guards but no bigs? What coach have we had in the past 25 years that recruited a big? Calvin Booth was a 3 year project , other coaches we had couldn’t recruit any position.
     
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  16. fairfaxlion2

    fairfaxlion2 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, Watkins is one of the best bigs I have ever seen at PSU. Yes it took a while to get one, but, he is really good.
     
  17. wbcincy

    wbcincy Well-Known Member
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    At 6’8”, Kelly is a “big” as modern hoops go, and a 3 Star on Rivals. So isn’t that what you’re asking for? So when you say we need at least 3 Star bigs, and 78 says why aren’t we getting Philly, and we are actually getting both those things, then it’s fair to assume that your real problem is that they aren’t much higher rated guys.

    There’s just nothing wrong with the staff taking on a high upside project of a big with a huge wing span. And the class isn’t done yet, so maybe see what the other two spots are filled with. We just had a great class for guards, but patience is already gone by mid July for the next class? Sheesh.
     
    57 wbcincy, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  18. GregInPitt

    GregInPitt Well-Known Member
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    Both commits are "no" stars on 247.
    • Natl Rank: NA
    • Big-Ten Rank: NA
    • Avg Rating: 0.0000
    • HARD COMMITS (2)
      • Pos
      • Ht
      • Wt
      Rating
      Status
    • [​IMG]
      Patrick KellyVirginia Episcopal School (Lynchburg, VA)
      • SF
      • 6-7
      • 190
      NA
      NA NA NA
      Commit 2/1/2018

    • [​IMG]
      Abdou TsimbilaSt Maria Goretti (Hagerstown, MD)
      • PF
      • 6-8
      • 220
      NA
      NA NA NA
      Commit 7/10/2018
    Yep, nothing wrong with taking ONE project in a class, but neither of the 2 commits are recognized big men. And from what is known about Kelly he is more of a wing player.

    Go to 247 and look how Maryland, Michigan and oh-high-ya have begun their classes. Not a bunch of "projects". Pat's current big men recruiting will not get him into the hunt of the B10 championship race, and likely not get him regularly to the Big Dance ...... Time for a change.

    As has been stated, the "high upside" comments sound like pitt football recruiting apologists trying to justify Duzzy picking up 2 star players..... Pat and Duzzy will just "coach them up" and have no trouble competing with the big boys..... That's a dream.
     
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  19. Nittany1997

    Nittany1997 Well-Known Member
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    A recruit is never as good as you think, or as bad as you think.
     
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  20. wbcincy

    wbcincy Well-Known Member
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    Ok, so now you're cherry-picking your ranking service in order to complain?

    Also, we aren't Maryland, Michigan or Ohio State in hoops history. It's fitting you raise Pitt. Should Pitt fans complain if they aren't recruiting at the same level as Penn State? Of course they aren't, and if that's the expectation, you're going to be unhappy forever as Pitt fan. It just isn't going to happen, and we recognize it's absurd for Pitt fans to think it will.

    We can just disagree on what's realistic for the program. With our history, facilities, and lack of financial commitment from the school, its unrealistic to expect more. I'm happy we at least have someone making us competitive despite those burdens, and I'm hopeful if we continue to be competitive, those burdens will begin to reduce.

    Really athletic, long bigs are the hardest thing to land because there are so few. So if our coaches think they got on this guy early and he can become that, it would be a huge get for us. I'm certainly never going to compare PC to Brad Stevens, but getting on Gordon Hayward before anyone else is what enabled Butler to turn its program around. If you aren't a traditional power program, this is something you have to do.

    If this kid doesn't show improvement during his senior year, or if we don't fill the last 2 spots in this recruiting class with quality prospects, then I'll also be disappointed. But when we just landed a really class of guards and we still have 2 spots left to fill this class, maybe we can relax a bit.
     
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  21. BobPSU92

    BobPSU92 Well-Known Member
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    By the same token, some of Chambers' recruits remind me of nardoozie's recruits when you look at offers and star ranking. We have a lot of fun with nardoozie's recruiting, but we squint intensely to find a silver lining with Chambers' comparable recruits.
     
  22. ST8FAN

    ST8FAN Well-Known Member
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    Chambers had one really good recruiting class and has since failed to follow up with anything remotely close to it. Furthermore, he failed to make the NCAA tournament with the members of that class (does anyone really think the team will be better this year without Carr?). Luckily for Pat, Penn State really doesn't care about basketball and is simply content to continue be mediocre and to cash its share of the Big 10's basketball revenue checks. Nothing will change. Get used to it.
     
  23. bison13

    bison13 Well-Known Member
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    The Kelly kid plays for a good AAU program in NC, he has had some good games on the circuit do far and I think is playing in NYC at the Adidas tourney this weekend. He will definitely be more than 0 stars, shoots well, smart kid (supposedly wants to be a Dr.) and is currently a 6'6" stretch 4 type player similar to Buttrick but more athletic. Not a stud but one of those program guys that each team needs.

    Tsimbila plays in one of the top HS conferences in the country, he played against Jalen 'Sticks' Smith, #16 overall recruit from Mt St Joes multiple times and held his own. I wont say he outplayed Smith in the BCL playoffs this spring but he played him to a standstill. Had 17/12/4 blocks while Smith had 21/10/4 for MSJ. Smith definitely has a better all around game and feel for the game but Tsimbila should make a big jump this season.

    Another aspect to recruiting these two is to try and get in that southern VA/NC pipeline as well as the BCL. Kelly has a kid on his AAU team in class of 20 who is already 6'8 and can shoot the 3 and is basically a more athletic and better version of Kelly. Goretti has a SG who is a real good player, A10 schools have offered so far as well as a 6'9 kid that is skinnier than Tsimbila but has a more complete game.
     
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  24. Raffycorn

    Raffycorn Well-Known Member
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    The Reaves/Watkins class in 2015 was a really good recruiting class, and it’s absurd to suggest otherwise. Even the 2018 class with a four star and two high-level three stars (including Dread, who I think is the best of the bunch) was a genuinely good class and far better than anything we could have expected at the program in two decades.

    To be honest, it says a lot about what Chambers has done to raise the floor of this program when the 2015 and 2018 class are considered to be not good enough.
     
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  25. ST8FAN

    ST8FAN Well-Known Member
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    The 2015 class was before the Carr class. The 2018 class wasn't as highly touted as the Carr class. So my point stands.

    Chambers hasn't taken the program to the NCAA tourney yet (and the current administration is just fine with that). Let's see how many NCAA tourney invites this program gets in the next 3 years before claiming "all is well."
     
  26. Raffycorn

    Raffycorn Well-Known Member
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    What I’m saying is that he had one very good recruiting class (better than any we’ve had in years) in 2015 and followed it up with a better one in 2016. Yes, 2016 has been a high water mark in recruiting that he hasn’t since matched, but I don’t know how realistic it is to expect for any coach’s recruiting classes to get better and better every single year, especially when one of those years was the best recruiting class in school history. James Franklin had a top-5 recruiting class in 2018; if he only has a top-15 class in 2019, is that a failure or a sign that things are trending downward? I wouldn’t say so.

    I do agree with the remainder of your post, though, and I don’t think I’m claiming that all is well. There’s a difference between “all is well” and “the program right now is stronger than it’s been in decades”.
     
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  27. wbcincy

    wbcincy Well-Known Member
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    Don’t really think a single person believes “all is well.” I know my personal view is that there’s plenty more to improve, but we continue to move in the right direction. As long as that’s the case (over multi-year spans), I will continue to support.
     
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  28. Ranger Dan

    Ranger Dan Well-Known Member
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    I am not fixated on Pitt recruiting or Narduzi... They can't compete with us in football recruiting and we can't compete with Villanova in basketball recruiting. It doesn't mean that Pitt can't find good players that can tribute in football and we can't find good players that contribute in basketball.
     
  29. NewEra 2014

    NewEra 2014 Well-Known Member
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    Penn State should have made the NCAA tournament last year, and that falls on Chambers for poor coaching and poor scheduling.

    But the team will be better this year without Carr, and worse without Garner. The result of the net of those two losses will be interesting to see. There is enough talent at Penn State to make the NCAA's, but I don't know if there is good enough coaching to get us there.
     
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  30. fairfaxlion2

    fairfaxlion2 Well-Known Member
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    I think this team could be better without Carr, yes. Watkins, Stevens and Reaves must all be here though.
     
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  31. Ranger Dan

    Ranger Dan Well-Known Member
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    If you count Bolton and Dread too, I agree...
     
  32. Erial_Lion

    Erial_Lion Well-Known Member
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    The team could be worse than last year’s team and still make the NCAA’s. But the margin will be thin, so can’t have any injuries in the front court, or more importantly, take periods of games off and/or not take everyone seriously from the start.
     
  33. BobPSU92

    BobPSU92 Well-Known Member
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    Not fixated with pitt recruiting or nardoozie? To quote former head of the Penn State Alumni Association Roger Williams, "So you think you're a Penn Stater." :eek:

    Chambers came from Nova. He was supposed to make Penn State Nova-Northwest. :eek:

    Seriously, I know that Penn State has no tradition in men's basketball. It still kills me that we never make significant strides. Little bumps of goodness (not greatness), but then we settle back to mediocrity or worse.
     
  34. GregInPitt

    GregInPitt Well-Known Member
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    Ok, so now you're cherry-picking your ranking service in order to complain? No, you were cherry picking to the support diamonds in the rough Narduzzi type recruiting Pat is doing for big men. The 247 composite is recognized as just that, a COMPOSITE.

    Also, we aren't Maryland, Michigan or Ohio State in hoops history.
    Obviously we all are looking to improve on history. If Pat can not compete in the B10 why would anyone want him as a coach of a B10 school.

    It's fitting you raise Pitt. Should Pitt fans complain if they aren't recruiting at the same level as Penn State?
    Pitt's first year BB coach is actually recruiting better than the established 8 year entrenched Pat right out of the gate, and likely will leave Pat in the dust as he turns Pitt's BB program around - Oh, and it won't take the new Pitt coach 8 years to do it....... Of course they aren't, and if that's the expectation, you're going to be unhappy forever as Pitt fan. It just isn't going to happen, and we recognize it's absurd for Pitt fans to think it will.???????????? have you branched out into football????????? which is irrelevant to BB.

    We can just disagree on what's realistic for the program. With our history, facilities, and lack of financial commitment from the school, its unrealistic to expect more. I'm happy we at least have someone making us competitive despite those burdens, and I'm hopeful if we continue to be competitive, those burdens will begin to reduce.
    Nice that your are happy, but there are those including me that believe the PSU program can realistically do better than what Pat has managed to accomplish. From my career experience, HOPE is not a business strategy. And college BB is definitely a business.

    Really athletic, long bigs are the hardest thing to land because there are so few. So if our coaches think they got on this guy early and he can become that, it would be a huge get for us. I'm certainly never going to compare PC to Brad Stevens, but getting on Gordon Hayward before anyone else is what enabled Butler to turn its program around. If you aren't a traditional power program, this is something you have to do.

    If this kid doesn't show improvement during his senior year, or if we don't fill the last 2 spots in this recruiting class with quality prospects, then I'll also be disappointed. But when we just landed a really class of guards and we still have 2 spots left to fill this class, maybe we can relax a bit.

    Go ahead and relax, if that is your style. But the fact is that PSU BB is coming off a nice season that included an NIT championship, we lost our best player to the NBA a year early (a positive in the minds of recruits - PSU being a school where a player can make the jump to the NBA), but yet PSU's current coaching staff's first 2 recruits have zero total stars on 247. Fact, not Hope.
     
    74 GregInPitt, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  35. wbcincy

    wbcincy Well-Known Member
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    Fair enough, we just see things differently with respect to whether there is progress, whether that progress is good enough, and whether someone else would achieve greater progress in Pat's shoes.
     
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  36. Ranger Dan

    Ranger Dan Well-Known Member
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    I know it’s not as convincing an argument as winning the Big Ten or making the NCAA tournament, but Pat Chambers is being used as the example for other downtrodden programs to build slow and steady.

    “ He's right, slow and steady. I know everyone wants immediate satisfaction but you need patience. The standard is Pat Chambers and Penn St. Slow and steady. And an athletic department showing a lot of patience“.

    https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/july-live-period-thread.147214/#post-3362798
     
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  37. Art

    Art Well-Known Member
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    Spare me. That's what a Rutgers poster is saying. Let me know when anyone in their BB or Athletic program is holding up Chambers as a model.
     
  38. Agoodnap

    Agoodnap Well-Known Member
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    I should probably start a new thread but I'll just leave the OOC schedule here for now.

    2018-19 Penn State Men’s Basketball Nonconference Schedule

    November9 -- North Florida (BJC), First meeting
    12 – Jacksonville State (BJC), First Meeting
    15 – at DePaul – Gavitt Games, DePaul leads series, 6-1
    20 – at Cancun Challenge vs. Wright State, Penn State leads series, 1-0
    21 – at Cancun Challenge vs. Bradley/SMU, Bradley leads, 3-2/Penn State leads, 2-1
    27 – Virginia Tech – Big Ten/ACC Challenge (BJC), Virginia Tech leads series, 6-2

    December8 – Colgate (BJC), Penn State leads series, 51-24
    15 – vs. NC State (Boardwalk Classic, at Atlantic City), NC State leads series, 17-3
    19 – at Duquesne, Penn State leads series, 28-20
    21 – at Alabama, Alabama leads series, 3-1
    29 – UMBC (BJC), Penn State leads series, 3-0

    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/071118aab.html
     
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  39. Raffycorn

    Raffycorn Well-Known Member
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    Pitt hired one of the best recruiters in the sport at a program that has far better support, resources, and history than we do. I’m not surprised that they’re doing well - Capel developed relationships with a whole lot of really good players that Duke just didn’t have scholarships for.

    That said, Capel and Chambers haven’t really gone head to head for too many recruits yet, so we’ll see how that battle plays out in 2019 and beyond. But I do think Chambers benefited over the last few years from the combination of Dixon losing his fastball on the recruiting trail and the general ineptitude of Kevin Stallings.
     
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  40. GregInPitt

    GregInPitt Well-Known Member
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    Capel will take Pat's lunch money when they go head to head. Not sure why you believe the situation at pitt is any better than the job at PSU (history in the Big East does not directly transfer to the ACC). It will just look better and easier because Capel is the real deal, and he has ties and experience in the ACC. But still give pitt's lack of geographic fit within the ACC Capel reviving pitt is not an easy task. Sure, he will get them respectable. But getting back to where pitt was in the Big East has many roadblocks and challenges.... that to by the names of Duke, NC, UL, etc.

    I don't believe Capel would have come to PSU as he is an ACC guy. But no doubt I would move on from Pat for a coach like Capel. Its really pretty simple, as CJF stated in his introductory interview. "It's easier to win with better players". And Pat is not getting enough of them to really win in the B10 or Big Dance.
     

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