CFB players demand revenue sharing from B1G

LionDeNittany

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Which doesn't mean they shouldn't have been getting paid money in addition to the scholarship. Let's not pretend they don't add more than say the gymnastics, soccer or fencing teams.

The joke is that football money is used for other sports... blah blah blah.

It isn't. It is used to pay .500 coaches 10M per year. To fly administrators and their families on vacations for 'bowl games' and to build facilities to kick back to the local powers.

LdN
 

LandoComando

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The joke is that football money is used for other sports... blah blah blah.

It isn't. It is used to pay .500 coaches 10M per year. To fly administrators and their families on vacations for 'bowl games' and to build facilities to kick back to the local powers.

LdN
10M a year is nothing for how much they're bringing in.
And I'm anti-Franklin but let's be real
 

bvillebaron

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Obli, there are dozens of angles to the issue...and various pros and cons connected with each angle. Personally, I'm sort of conflicted on it and would need to see a concrete plan on the table before forming an opinion. In fact, I didn't take a position on the merits of the question in my above post.

That said, football is a demanding game. Focus is crucial. Distractions are a minus. Therefore, from the selfish perspective of a Penn State fan, I'd rather that the Ohio State QB and team take the lead on this and have "secret meetings" with organizers.

I mean, let's face it: Sean didn't set the world on fire with his performance on the field last year. I thought he was coming back for yet another year to play football...not crusade for reform.
Spot on. I was ambivalent about Clifford returning but eventually concluded it was a good thing. He is inviting more criticism for this if he doesn’t play well.
 
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Obliviax

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Obli, there are dozens of angles to the issue...and various pros and cons connected with each angle. Personally, I'm sort of conflicted on it and would need to see a concrete plan on the table before forming an opinion. In fact, I didn't take a position on the merits of the question in my above post.

That said, football is a demanding game. Focus is crucial. Distractions are a minus. Therefore, from the selfish perspective of a Penn State fan, I'd rather that the Ohio State QB and team take the lead on this and have "secret meetings" with organizers.

I mean, let's face it: Sean didn't set the world on fire with his performance on the field last year. I thought he was coming back for yet another year to play football...not crusade for reform.
Yep. I think this is good for Sean. I don’t see an nfl career for him so him getting on the ground floor is an awesome career path for him and probably PSU.

for college football…. It was inevitable
 

DandyDonII

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1) It was funny to hear one unnamed player complain about his sport having to fund other non revenue generating sports, in the real world, we call this taxes :)
2) It's amazing how many players play FCS, DII and DIII football for no NIL and many for no scholarships. It's almost like it isn't a punishment playing for a scholarship alone.
3) People really undersell how important the university name is for most college fans. College Football tends to be very regional. I have always rooted for PSU because I believe its students get a college education and I have enjoyed watching them grow on the field....
 

LandoComando

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1) It was funny to hear one unnamed player complain about his sport having to fund other non revenue generating sports, in the real world, we call this taxes :)
2) It's amazing how many players play FCS, DII and DIII football for no NIL and many for no scholarships. It's almost like it isn't a punishment playing for a scholarship alone.
3) People really undersell how important the university name is for most college fans. College Football tends to be very regional. I have always rooted for PSU because I believe its students get a college education and I have enjoyed watching them grow on the field....
1. They're not wrong. Does anyone like taxes
2. FCS, DII and DIII play at those levels because no one is giving them money. And some FCS players are getting NIL money--ask Prime Time
3. This doesn't alter that. It's still Penn State. Kids will still get an education if they want which has always been true.
 

heckmans

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I don't think it drops off at all--I think it skyrockets. You really don't see the appeal of a 48+ team league with a 16 team playoff? No games against the MAC or FBS. Playing great quality games every week. It's infinitely better. And, yes, they're still Penn State so post people that went to Penn State will still root for them. Why does them getting paid change that? Has Bama, Ohio State, Clemson, A&M, etc lost fans over paying them?

This isn't the 70s. I don't have any interest in Penn State playing weak OOC games so the school gets many for having an extra home game. Play the best weekly.
No. No one cares about the minors.

Amateurism has appeal. Fan ties to the institutions made it personal. As the players become more and more like professionals (salaried, free agency), interest will wane over time.
 

LandoComando

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No. No one cares about the minors.

Amateurism has appeal. Fan ties to the institutions made it personal. As the players become more and more like professionals (salaried, free agency), interest will wane over time.
It's not "the minors"--it's still college football
 

bdgan

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But they're not what drives money so does it matter in reality?
I think it's part of what drives the money. Same with things like fireworks. The atmosphere at a college game is a lot different than at a pro game. But of course I understand that winning really draws the fans.

One thing seems likely. More money spent on players means less money for the low revenue sports. I expect schools to eliminate some programs.
 

LandoComando

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I think it's part of what drives the money. Same with things like fireworks. The atmosphere at a college game is a lot different than at a pro game. But of course I understand that winning really draws the fans.

One thing seems likely. More money spent on players means less money for the low revenue sports. I expect schools to eliminate some programs.
That's possible--it depends how much revenue football brings in once realignment is completed. And I doubt the majority of football players care about that.
 

Wallace Breen

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What these spoiled entitled brats don't realize is that they don't actually matter. Penn State alums pay to watch Penn State's football team. They don't pay to watch Sean Clifford, or Trace McSorley, or Miles Sanders. They pay to watch Penn State. The deal the players are getting is way more generous than they deserve. Period.
 
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Rip_E_2_Joe_PA

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I think I'm done with college football, and I don't think I will be alone
Lol... just like MLB went way and the NFL....
Sadly, I'm giving it serious thought. This year might be my final year of attending a game in person. Might be time to follow a lower division program.
Just like you all left the NFL and MLB....once the crying game is over CFB fans will anti up. We are all addicts. Get over yourselves.
 

Ian

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You all miss the point.

college football is a free for all today because the ncaa lost its legal battles and there is no player organization to negotiate with to create an agreement. Any restrictions the ncaa comes up with will be challenged in court. They can be ruled arbitrary and struck down. Professional leagues get around this by negotiating and jointly agreeing to a collective bargaining agreement. With no player organization, no collective bargaining agreement or CBA.

a CBA is the only hope of adding structure and fairness into the process. It won’t be singularity driven by high profile QBs and WRs. The notion of alignment between players, coaches and schools for the greater good will be the possible, even likely.

the nfl, nba, mlb and nhl all have different CBAs based on history, sport, roster makeup, and revenue models. College football needs to craft their own. I love that SC is at the forefront of this (but wish he could play better)
Emmrich and the NCAA started losing their grip the moment they tried to kill PSU football eleven yrs ago and then back tracked within two yrs. Serves them right and it’s only poetic justice that if this movement takes hold the death blow is delivered by a PSU led effort!
 

Ian

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10M a year is nothing for how much they're bringing in.
And I'm anti-Franklin but let's be real
They are bringing in $175m a year with most of that in media rights and that will double in the next deal. Franklion has no impact on that. Yes, he and others are way over paid!

The networks are what has ruined College athletics with their insane contracts. It’s an arms race in tv land ultimately paid by the corporations thru advertising.
 

BUFFALO LION

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College sports have been big business for decades. I'm fine with you people being sad about it but I mean how long has it been trending this way? This should have happened 40-50 years ago in all honesty.

Thank goodness it didn’t or there probably wouldn’t be a 107,000 seat Beaver Stadium today.

Who would have wasted their money all these years watching a bunch of hired mercenaries that probably couldn’t read or write, and couldn’t give two sh!ts about Penn State. Here today, gone tomorrow.

When’s the last time you drove 3 or 4 hours one way and stayed overnight to see the State College Spikes play?
 
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Hugh Laurie

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....and look to become even closer to a professional minor league, which fewer and fewer people will care about, because, well, no one cares about the minors. On top of the NCAA announcing unlimited free agency...err, I mean transfers, my only question is how long CFB lasts as a major cultural center.

Sean Clifford engaged in the process and quoted.

Clifford and his organization can advocate all they want with Warren but I wouldn't give them a dime. Players aren't employees of their respective schools and accordingly aren't entitled to anything more than the grants in aid that are codified by the NCAA and bestowed by the member institutions. NIL is outside the domain of the institutions so the players should take the money from their respective NIL deals, be happy they even got a deal to begin with, and go to practice. Warren is a jackass for even having such a meeting and in so doing may have possibly established an ad hoc employer/employee relationship that might cost the BIG institutions money should its players ever attempt to unionize. Wouldn't surprise me if Warren agreed to this meeting but for no other reason just to display some wokeness just to feather his own nest.
 
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Obliviax

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Clifford and his organization can advocate all they want with Warren but I wouldn't give them a dime. Players aren't employees of their respective schools and accordingly aren't entitled to anything more than the grants in aid that are codified by the NCAA and bestowed by the member institutions. NIL is outside the domain of the institutions so the players should take the money from their respective NIL deals, be happy they even got a deal to begin with, and go to practice. Warren is a jackass for even having such a meeting and in so doing may have possibly established an ad hoc employer/employee relationship that might cost the BIG institutions money should its players ever attempt to unionize. Wouldn't surprise me if Warren agreed to this meeting but for no other reason just to display some wokeness just to feather his own nest.
The ncaa and schools have lost any control. Rules they put into place can be challenged in court and can be found to violate labor laws. The kids are paid and have been for years. You can’t grab a kid, give him food and education, and make him work for five years and simply not call him an employee. I can certainly understand a poor kid (slum, trailer court) sweating his ass off at 5am during off season lifting and watching $70m being sent to the girls cribbage team and updating the governors loge while he could transfer out without a big penalty and get adequate healthcare at age 27 from a football injury.

the players asked for the bare minimum and the ncaa, sec, big12 (not so much the B1G but then too) and killed the golden goose by giving them nothing. They revolted through the courts, Labor and copyright laws. Meanwhile coaches are making $6m per year. Emmerett didn’t listen and tried to continue to exploit the kids. They had a chance to fix it. Now it is a free for all where college teams have less rights to the kids than pro teams.

The genie is out of the bottle. The next best alternative is for the kids/players to unify and negotiate some sort of agreement so there is, at least, some sort of order.

like it or not, that is where we are. If they hurt the game with too liberal of rules, they can negotiate a fix. It will evolve
 
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Hugh Laurie

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The ncaa and schools have lost any control. Rules they put into place can be challenged in court and can be found to violate labor laws. The kids are paid and have been for years. You can’t grab a kid, give him food and education, and make him work for five years and simply not call him an employee. I can certainly understand a poor kid (slum, trailer court) sweating his ass off at 5am during off season lifting and watching $70m being sent to the girls cribbage team and updating the governors loge while he could transfer out without a big penalty and get adequate healthcare at age 27 from a football injury.

the players asked for the bare minimum and the ncaa, sec, big12 (not so much the B1G but then too) and killed the golden goose by giving them nothing. They revolted through the courts, Labor and copyright laws. Meanwhile coaches are making $6m per year. Emmerett didn’t listen and tried to continue to exploit the kids. They had a chance to fix it. Now it is a free for all where college teams have less rights to the kids than pro teams.

The genie is out of the bottle. The next best alternative is for the kids/players to unify and negotiate some sort of agreement so there is, at least, some sort of order.

like it or not, that is where we are. If they hurt the game with too liberal of rules, they can negotiate a fix. It will evolve
The Supreme court ruling did allow schools to go beyond tuition scholarships to cover cost of attendance, and pay for personal laptops, tutors and even musical instruments or art supplies for classes. Schools also are able to pay for athletes to study abroad, fund internships after they graduate and pay for postgraduate education. I have no problem with educational related benefits but not cash payments to the players made directly from the institution's coffers. That's what NIL is designed for. Warren is opening a Pandora's box by meeting to discuss anything beyond educational related items.
 

LandoComando

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Thank goodness it didn’t or there probably wouldn’t be a 107,000 seat Beaver Stadium today.

Who would have wasted their money all these years watching a bunch of hired mercenaries that probably couldn’t read or write, and couldn’t give two sh!ts about Penn State. Here today, gone tomorrow.

When’s the last time you drove 3 or 4 hours one way and stayed overnight to see the State College Spikes play?

You continue to act as though college players being paid someone doesn't make it "Penn State" that's untrue and just something you're saying because you can't handle change. Notice the temper tantrum you threw because I accept "The Grand Experiment" failed.
 

Obliviax

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The Supreme court ruling did allow schools to go beyond tuition scholarships to cover cost of attendance, and pay for personal laptops, tutors and even musical instruments or art supplies for classes. Schools also are able to pay for athletes to study abroad, fund internships after they graduate and pay for postgraduate education. I have no problem with educational related benefits but not cash payments to the players made directly from the institution's coffers. That's what NIL is designed for. Warren is opening a Pandora's box by meeting to discuss anything beyond educational related items.
Imho Warren has no alternative. Players are simply going to go where they make more money. If you don’t like having the pirates play against the Yankees, that is where we are. NIL can be so corrupted it is simply boosters paying kids legally. A collective bargaining agreement is the only short college football has not to fall into the abyss of being a complete pro sport.

I am 100% certain the nfl is watching the NBA d-league and considering something similar for high school graduates. For the nfl, what makes more money? A free developmental league once known as college football or a pro developmental league with an expense and a revenue component? If college football becomes their own league, what is to stop them from just continuing beyond five years of eligibility and competing for pro football revenue? If you own a two billion dollar nfl franchise you are paying some people big bucks to model this right now.

simply put, what we once knew as college football is now history. What we have now is an established pro league (nfl) and a burgeoning pro league (once known as college football). There are still arbitrary rules separating them but the capricious nature of the arbitrary rules introduces instability. Someone is going to explore that to see how they can become the next billionaire
 

YeOldeCup

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Player compensation, NIL, penalty free transfers. Sounds like the NFL, which I have already stopped watching. Won't miss this either if all come to pass.
 

Hugh Laurie

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Imho Warren has no alternative. Players are simply going to go where they make more money. If you don’t like having the pirates play against the Yankees, that is where we are. NIL can be so corrupted it is simply boosters paying kids legally. A collective bargaining agreement is the only short college football has not to fall into the abyss of being a complete pro sport.

I am 100% certain the nfl is watching the NBA d-league and considering something similar for high school graduates. For the nfl, what makes more money? A free developmental league once known as college football or a pro developmental league with an expense and a revenue component? If college football becomes their own league, what is to stop them from just continuing beyond five years of eligibility and competing for pro football revenue? If you own a two billion dollar nfl franchise you are paying some people big bucks to model this right now.

simply put, what we once knew as college football is now history. What we have now is an established pro league (nfl) and a burgeoning pro league (once known as college football). There are still arbitrary rules separating them but the capricious nature of the arbitrary rules introduces instability. Someone is going to explore that to see how they can become the next billionaire

Clearly there will be the haves and the have nots. So long as PSU can maintain NIL parity with programs like tOSU and UM I'll be happy. Jason Belzer who professionally manages the PSU collectives thinks $10-$15M/yr is what it will take to compete with these programs and he thinks its very achievable.

Here is a link to video (maybe you've see it already) where Belzer describes his management role and how the PSU collectives will work including some of the numbers. I found it informative.

BELZER
 
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ryoder1

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With all of this happening not sure how much this will really affect the balance of power in college football. Players want to play for traditional power winning programs. Also. it is the traditional power programs that will do anything to get the best players.

If there is revenue sharing then that just disperses money to players of all programs. I don't see revenue sharing for just B10 players.

Time will tell if PSU's recruiting plummets and we are left behind because we can't compete in NIL.

As for our on field performance this year, this is not good news. Clifford was hopefully much improved this year, with this leaking he seems to be preoccupied with leading a players movement not his quarterback skills.
 

BUFFALO LION

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We haven't won a title since the 80s--it failed. You have to adapt with time,

That’s all these kids mean to you????? A freakin TITLE????

It’s people like you who think of these kids as nothing but cheap chicken fodder. Who gives a crap if they get a degree they can use after they flame out in football after college, right?? As long as they win fan boys like you a freakin “title”.

The Great Experiment got these kids degrees and made them part of the University community. Back when I went to school, the players attended classes and had to get the grades just like everyone else. Maybe you saw them driving big cars, but I sure didn’t unless I knew their parents could afford to do it for them.

We knew that they would be part of our family, our University community, and our responsibility for 4 or 5 years and we took care of them. The coaches, the student community, and the fans. Victory with Honor meant something. Sure we didn’t run up the score on teams, but we were the most respected team in all of College football. You wore a Penn State shirt, you were proud, because you knew you did things the right way.

When I would go into a job interview, or have an important business meeting, I would always slide in somewhere that I went to Penn State, and that would completely turn the tables on the other party. It was crazy how many times that worked. People would immediately start asking me questions about Penn State and ask me if it’s like everybody says it is.

Of course that all changed 180 degrees in 2011 when that fvck head CorButt decided to nuke the University. But up to that point, that Penn State degree meant something. Now it doesn’t mean squat. It’s no different than a degree from any other football factory.

To say that the Grand Experiment didn’t work is pure and total bullish!t. My guess is you are either too young to remember, or never went to school here. I could be wrong, and you might just be a “win at all costs” type of guy. But if you are, and titles are all a football player is good for, you are the total opposite of what the Grand Experiment was all about.

We didn’t have to buy our friends (players) back then. They chose us because they knew we would do everything we could to get them a college degree for the long term, and allow them to play football over the short term. Who knows? Maybe even have a successful NFL career in the process.
 

LandoComando

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That’s all these kids mean to you????? A freakin TITLE????

It’s people like you who think of these kids as nothing but cheap chicken fodder. Who gives a crap if they get a degree they can use after they flame out in football after college, right?? As long as they win fan boys like you a freakin “title”.

The Great Experiment got these kids degrees and made them part of the University community. Back when I went to school, the players attended classes and had to get the grades just like everyone else. Maybe you saw them driving big cars, but I sure didn’t unless I knew their parents could afford to do it for them.

We knew that they would be part of our family, our University community, and our responsibility for 4 or 5 years and we took care of them. The coaches, the student community, and the fans. Victory with Honor meant something. Sure we didn’t run up the score on teams, but we were the most respected team in all of College football. You wore a Penn State shirt, you were proud, because you knew you did things the right way.

When I would go into a job interview, or have an important business meeting, I would always slide in somewhere that I went to Penn State, and that would completely turn the tables on the other party. It was crazy how many times that worked. People would immediately start asking me questions about Penn State and ask me if it’s like everybody says it is.

Of course that all changed 180 degrees in 2011 when that fvck head CorButt decided to nuke the University. But up to that point, that Penn State degree meant something. Now it doesn’t mean squat. It’s no different than a degree from any other football factory.

To say that the Grand Experiment didn’t work is pure and total bullish!t. My guess is you are either too young to remember, or never went to school here. I could be wrong, and you might just be a “win at all costs” type of guy. But if you are, and titles are all a football player is good for, you are the total opposite of what the Grand Experiment was all about.

We didn’t have to buy our friends (players) back then. They chose us because they knew we would do everything we could to get them a college degree for the long term, and allow them to play football over the short term. Who knows? Maybe even have a successful NFL career in the process.
The Grand Experiment includes winning. They are at school to play football and if they are unsuccessful on the field those scholarships should be revoked. Most aren't in school based on academic merit. What does not running up the score do? These are 12 year olds. The only thing that really ever did was prevent Bama from embarrassing us later on. How do you think bringing up Penn State goes now if they're not Penn State grads and under the age of 50? The Grand Experiment didn't work. I went to Penn State and I'm old enough. 1999 graduate. I just don't live in the past. Without titles the "Success" doesn't exist. That was the goal as we won in 1982 and 1986 then, aside from 1994, failed to live up to expectations and continue to do so.

They didn't pick us to get a degree--they picked us because, even then, they felt we could get them to the next level.

Reality--it's now 2022. The Grand Experiment is no longer relevant or a top that should be discussed. This is business and it's big business. If you don't like it then move on but you're not going to get what you want because it's never ever existed.
 
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BUFFALO LION

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The Grand Experiment includes winning. They are at school to play football and if they are unsuccessful on the field those scholarships should be revoked. Most aren't in school based on academic merit. What does not running up the score do? These are 12 year olds. The only thing that really ever did was prevent Bama from embarrassing us later on. How do you think bringing up Penn State goes now if they're not Penn State grads and under the age of 50? The Grand Experiment didn't work. I went to Penn State and I'm old enough. 1999 graduate. I just don't live in the past. Without titles the "Success" doesn't exist. That was the goal as we won in 1982 and 1986 then, aside from 1994, failed to live up to expectations and continue to do so.

They didn't pick us to get a degree--they picked us because, even then, they felt we could get them to the next level.

Reality--it's now 2022. The Grand Experiment is no longer relevant or a top that should be discussed. This is business and it's big business. If you don't like it then move on but you're not going to get what you want because it's never ever existed.

Sorry man. I’d rather lose with 2, 3, and 4 star players that we developed, that played at 110%, and actually had a useful future, than win with a bunch of 5 stars that can’t spell cat if you spot them the c and the a.

Nothing made my day more than when some team with more natural talent would walk out there on the field strutten their stuff, have their fans bragging, and we would physically kick their a$$es up one side of the field and down the other. I watch those old game tapes and it’s like night and day with the physicality and the fundamentally sound football we used to play.

You’re a youngin, so maybe you’re still pi$$ing and moaning in your urine cup about the so called “dark years”. But even if you started school as late as 1995 as you imply, you still had some pretty good darn years where we came pretty close to playing for a National Championship. We were an Ohio State last drive choke job against Texas in 2005 and an Iowa loss in the sub freezing weather in 2008 from possibly playing for a National Championship. We would have DEFINITELY been a Playoff team under today’s system.

Even when we lost, which was rare, we could leave the field with our heads held high knowing our players had a useful future in front of them.

You want these kids focusing on the quick buck, a probable dead end or no NFL career, and a future pumping gas, be my guest. But you’re right. That is NO Grand experiment. That is 1986 SMU, Oklahoma, or Miami. In other words, nothing more than just another exploitive football factory. It certainly doesn’t make us “special” like we used to be.
 
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LandoComando

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I’d rather lose with 3 a


Sorry man. I’d rather lose with 2, 3, and 4 star players that we developed, that played at 110%, and actually had a useful future, than win with a bunch of 5 stars that can’t spell cat if you spot them the c and the a.

Nothing made my day more than when some team with more natural talent would walk out there on the field strutten their stuff, have their fans bragging, and we would physically kick their a$$es up one side of the field and down the other. I watch those old game tapes and it’s like night and day with the physicality and the fundamentally sound football we used to play.

You’re a youngin, so maybe you’re still pi$$ing and moaning in your urine cup about the so called “dark years”. But even if you started school as late as 1995 as you imply, you still had some pretty good darn years where we came pretty close to playing for a National Championship. We were an Ohio State last drive choke job against Texas in 2005 and an Iowa loss in the sub freezing weather in 2008 from possibly playing for a National Championship. We would have DEFINITELY been a Playoff team under today’s system.

Even when we lost, which was rare, we could leave the field with our heads held high knowing our players had a useful future in front of them.

You want these kids focusing on the quick buck, a probable dead end or no NFL career, and a future pumping gas, be my guess. But you’re right. That is NO Grand experiment. That is 1986 SMU, Oklahoma, or Miami. In other words, nothing more than just another exploitive football factory. It certainly doesn’t make us “special” like we used to be.
The fact you think someone that's rapidly approaching 50 is a "youngin" is exactly why I can't take your opinion seriously. Things change--you have to adapt.
 

crm114psu

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We haven't won a title since the 80s--it failed. You have to adapt with time,
"Success with Honor" and "Grand Experiment" are simply marketing slogans that were briefly successful. Other schools have done the same without giving it a snappy title. If those concepts had meant anything significant that egotistical old man would have retired in the 90s with honor. Instead it became all about "409" and "coaching" from the pressbox.
 

fairfaxlion2

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"Success with Honor" and "Grand Experiment" are simply marketing slogans that were briefly successful. Other schools have done the same without giving it a snappy title. If those concepts had meant anything significant that egotistical old man would have retired in the 90s with honor. Instead it became all about "409" and "coaching" from the pressbox.

I do not totally disagree about the later years (the pursuit of 409 at age 85 was beyond pointless), but he have a different vision from many of the coaches of his day, he stuck with it, and it was mostly successful.
 
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LandoComando

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2021
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I do not totally disagree about the later years (the pursuit of 409 at age 85 was beyond pointless), but he have a different vision from many of the coaches of his day, he stuck with it, and it was mostly successful.
"Mostly successful" =/= successful
 

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