CC CYS Fighting V6 request to depose John Miller & Chambers told CC CYS Lewis Fulare abt '98 opinion

[WeR0206]

Great finds by @JmmyW in the appendix of the PCRA filing. Truly mind boggling that the media doesn't seem to care about this.

Here are some screen grabs:

Police interviewed Centre Cty CYS worker 2/2/2011 that Dr. Chambers contacted. "He had heard rumors" PCRA App p.513

Lets review the above shall we?

First off, I don't know how the CC CYS can possibly argue that CC CYS case worker John Miller shouldn't be deposed. Kind of similar to the PSU BOT/PA OAG requesting Freeh to not interview Harmon--who was a central figure in both 1998 and 2001.

Secondly, we find out that according to Chambers PSP interview in 2011 about 1998, Chambers ALSO spoke with CC CYS worker Lewis Fulare (who in 1994 was the director of counseling for CC CYS) about her concerns with JS. In addition to that we also know she phoned in her abuse suspicions to DPW's Childline shortly after her interview with V6 AND sent Schreffler a written copy of her opinion/report (which numerous of her colleagues agreed with) on 5/8 so he could use it as corroboration/attach it to his report.

Of course, when asked about this in 2011 Fulare denies it and only says he heard "rumors" and had no first had knowledge....umm....yeah right pal......yet somehow CC CYS/DPW get away with saying that they never knew of Chambers' opinion/report in 1998 and only knew about Seasock?? Wow.....someone is lying and my money is it's the scumbags at CC CYS. These child welfare professionals dropped the ball REPEATEDLY re: JS and somehow PSU college admins/football coach took the FULL BLAME for JS...unreal!

How amazing is it that after all this time and after all the damage done to PSU, NONE of these CYS/DPW/TSM workers have ever really been thoroughly questioned under oath about what they knew and when?? Especially concerning if/when they learned of Chambers' report...

Also some interesting tweets from Ray re: 2001 incident and who at PSU was aware of it:

Ray Blehar‏@RayBlehar
Easy to ID: Spanier, Baldwin, Garban, Belcher, Junker, Schreffler, Shelow, & others

Ray Blehar @RayBlehar · 18h18 hours ago
When I say "knew" it means about the 2001 incident....but appears they gave EXCULPATORY versions

 

[sluggo72]

can you expand to the Blehar tweet?? is there more??

 

[WeR0206]

can you expand to the Blehar tweet?? is there more??

I couldn't really find more except for these ones:

Ray Blehar‏@RayBlehar
You'll soon learn more people at #PSU knew, but Erickson went along with covering that up

Ray Blehar ‏@RayBlehar 19h19 hours ago
When I say "knew" it means about the 2001 incident....but appears they gave EXCULPATORY versions

Ray Blehar ‏@RayBlehar 3h3 hours ago
The transparency myth will be blown away soon & what #PSU is hiding is going to come out

Ray Blehar @RayBlehar · 2h2 hours ago
@BlueLion13126 Keep the faith, Karen. Some #truth to be revealed very soon.

 

[ApexLion]

Can you slow down and break it down for us?

I get the continued hot potato vibe. But what is the real rationale for trying to quash? We have always had a fork in the road when it came to the agency people who should have done more: 1) incompetence or 2) something else. Most of us believe asleep at the wheel or no. 1.

So where does this fall? Why is CC pushing back?

 

[NittPicker]

Why is CC pushing back?

That is a great question. You'd think the county would be more than willing to cooperate if everything was done right. On the other hand, they should also be willing to cooperate if mistakes were made to ensure those mistakes aren't made again.

 

[sluggo72]

That is a great question. You'd think the county would be more than willing to cooperate if everything was done right. On the other hand, they should also be willing to cooperate if mistakes were made to ensure those mistakes aren't made again.

maybe they don't want to asked about how they handled things in 2001.

 

[Ceasar]

Many would be surprised at how inept CPS workers are. Most are highly educated and highly incompetent. They have a strong desire to keep this information from the public SS we would be horrified to learn of their inability to keep children safe .
Case in point occurred a week or two ago when a young child died of malnutrition. Dauphin County CYS had the family as an open case but the worker had not been making the required visits. Of course the media is blissfully unaware as it has not been made public. Where is Sara Ganim when you need her? Yes , that was sarcasm

 

[psu00]

Many would be surprised at how inept CPS workers are. Most are highly educated and highly incompetent. They have a strong desire to keep this information from the public SS we would be horrified to learn of their inability to keep children safe .
Case in point occurred a week or two ago when a young child died of malnutrition. Dauphin County CYS had the family as an open case but the worker had not been making the required visits. Of course the media is blissfully unaware as it has not been made public. Where is Sara Ganim when you need her? Yes , that was sarcasm

This is really part of my problem with the local media- especially Pennlive/ Patriot News. About a year ago there was another case in Harrisburg of parents who had their kid die from neglect locked in his room. They reported that story but not a single reporter/ editor etc had the spark to investigate how CYS handles these cases (especially post JS)- it was just a story of shock value of 'child died'. They show zero interest.

And the bigger problem is if they did do an investigation their entire story would just rotate around CYS needing more money (that's their answer to everything). They wouldn't really investigate CYS, how they work, where they've dropped the ball, how they could improve, how other states CYS handle things in comparison, etc.

 

[WeR0206]

Can you slow down and break it down for us?

I get the continued hot potato vibe. But what is the real rationale for trying to quash? We have always had a fork in the road when it came to the agency people who should have done more: 1) incompetence or 2) something else. Most of us believe asleep at the wheel or no. 1.

So where does this fall? Why is CC pushing back?

The overall takeaway should be this: there's NO WAY CC CYS/PA DPW did NOT know about Chambers' 1998 report. Lauro testified he never saw it and Miller also said the same. Well, according to Chambers she gave her report directly to: UPPD, DPW's ChildLine, and CC CYS. So, there's no way CC CYS/DPW can claim they had no idea of Chambers' report, unless of course those agencies are completely incompetent/going along with some sort of coverup. This the reason CC CYS does NOT want Johm Miller (or anyone else for that matter) deposed under oath re: 1998. They are afraid their cover up/incompetence will get exposed.

We don't even know for sure if C/S/S/P even knew Chambers' report existed let alone saw the contents of it in 1998, yet freeh/NCAA/media blame C/S/S/P for not alerting the community that JS was a pedo.....all the while CC CYS/DPW were informed directly by Chambers' that JS was exhibiting grooming behavior towards V6....and they all rode off into the sunset leaving C/S/S/P to take the ENTIRE blame...how nice!

 

[ApexLion]

maybe they don't want to asked about how they handled things in 2001.

Do you ever get the feeling that everyone (CYS, TSM, dozens at PSU) knew Sandusky was screwy/odd/inappropriate but nobody wanted to go farther?

What are all these discussions at CC CYS about that we now want to quash?

Frustrating.

 

[Aoshiro]

Do you ever get the feeling that everyone (CYS, TSM, dozens at PSU) knew Sandusky was screwy/odd/inappropriate but nobody wanted to go farther?

What are all these discussions at CC CYS about that we now want to quash?

Frustrating.

I think that it's entirely possible that over the years there were many reports completely outside of Penn State -- to The Second Mile or CYS -- that were swept under the carpet. I don't know if other reports were ignored because of some kind of money angle, because Jerry had powerful friends, or because Jerry had so much goodwill that authorities refused to believe them. I do think that the people of Centre County deserve to know if there were such reports, and if so, why they were ignored, especially in light of the mess local authorities made of the Chris Lee case (which is being prosecuted by the Feds). I can't understand why people involved in child welfare in Centre County aren't hopping mad.

 

[lionlurker]

Certainly there were people who knew JS was squirrelly, but nobody likely knew the full extent of his depravity. PSU figured he didn't work there anymore, and everybody tried to get TSM to deal with it, because he was still there and that was where the kids came from. I think that is pretty much the extent of it. In retrospect more should have been done, but in retrospect as well nobody really knew what they were dealing with. I think that is the extent of most of the errors.

However, that does not explain whatever else everybody seems to be trying to hide, and that is where TSM really comes into play. Honest people don't hire shredding trucks on a whim, and destroy every single record they can get their hands on before any of the whispers even started. I think what they are hiding doesn't have anything to do with JS at all. If there was a child prostitution ring, or some kind of kid-trading situation, some kid would have stepped up with a lawsuit by now.

 

[WeR0206]

Do you ever get the feeling that everyone (CYS, TSM, dozens at PSU) knew Sandusky was screwy/odd/inappropriate but nobody wanted to go farther?

What are all these discussions at CC CYS about that we now want to quash?

Frustrating.

Yes, and I agree with what Lurker and Aoshiro wrote above.

I think there were a number of people at PSU who knew about both 1998 and 2001 contemporaneously (outside of the admins/Joe). Namely, Harmon, Baldwin, and Erickson. However what most people at PSU heard about 1998 was that LE determined nothing criminal happened and 2001 was what everyone (except for MM) testified to--that a GA saw JS inappropriately showering/horsing around with a kid in Lasch that made the GA uncomfortable --aka-- a repeat of 1998 (which DPW/CYS gave their good housekeeping stamp of approval on). PSU admins talked to JS about his inappropriate behavior needing to stop and not being allowed to bring guests anymore and reported the incident and their new directives to his boss at TSM.

Everyone at PSU thought it was handled and went on with their lives until they started getting served subpoenas (this is when Baldwin was inserted to help manage/steer the situation to keep her own ass and other PSU bigwigs safe) and then the crap hit the fan when the GJP was leaked that said MM eye witnessed child rape and reported it as such to PSU admins/Joe. This put everyone who knew about 2001 in a very precarious situation. The BOT fired Joe for lack of leadership but Joe knew as much about 2001 as some BOT members/high level admins themselves (i'm looking at you, Ms. Baldwin and Rodney Erickson).

This put them (old main and BOT exec comm members) in an awkward position because if anyone found out that they knew about 2001, people would think they were told about MM eye witnessing a child rape then did nothing, however if they tried to exonerate themselves about 2001 by saying it was only inappropriate shower/horseplay it would prove them to be hypocrites (for firing Joe and not themselves) and it would go against the current narrative the OAG/the state wanted (we wouldn't want to upset Corbett now would we??). So essentially what happened was a twisted game of musical chairs and C/S/S -and by extension Joe-- were left standing b/c they were the ones the OAG selected to single out. Everyone else who knew about 2001 claimed no knowledge and claimed that they never heard anything at all about JS until 11/11....freeh was hired to reinforce this narrative..how convenient!!

 

[Aoshiro]

Certainly there were people who knew JS was squirrelly, but nobody likely knew the full extent of his depravity. PSU figured he didn't work there anymore, and everybody tried to get TSM to deal with it, because he was still there and that was where the kids came from. I think that is pretty much the extent of it. In retrospect more should have been done, but in retrospect as well nobody really knew what they were dealing with. I think that is the extent of most of the errors.

However, that does not explain whatever else everybody seems to be trying to hide, and that is where TSM really comes into play. Honest people don't hire shredding trucks on a whim, and destroy every single record they can get their hands on before any of the whispers even started. I think what they are hiding doesn't have anything to do with JS at all. If there was a child prostitution ring, or some kind of kid-trading situation, some kid would have stepped up with a lawsuit by now.

I'm not making a judgement about what exactly anyone "knew." I don't want to believe that anyone "knew" that Sandusky was molesting children. But I don't think that an organization that has nothing to hide hires a shredder truck to get rid of old records when they know that Grand Jury is looking at its founder. If people -- parents, teachers, social workers-- were raising questions about Sandusky's behavior, those questions would have gone to Jack Raykovitz, not Tim Curley. I can't believe that he and his wife (Katherine Genovese) haven't been held accountable. I'm not a conspiracy nut by nature, but that sure smells whiffy to me.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Great finds by @JmmyW in the appendix of the PCRA filing. Truly mind boggling that the media doesn't seem to care about this.

Here are some screen grabs:

Police interviewed Centre Cty CYS worker 2/2/2011 that Dr. Chambers contacted. "He had heard rumors" PCRA App p.513

Lets review the above shall we?

First off, I don't know how the CC CYS can possibly argue that CC CYS case worker John Miller shouldn't be deposed. Kind of similar to the PSU BOT/PA OAG requesting Freeh to not interview Harmon--who was a central figure in both 1998 and 2001.

Secondly, we find out that according to Chambers PSP interview in 2011 about 1998, Chambers ALSO spoke with CC CYS worker Lewis Fulare (who in 1994 was the director of counseling for CC CYS) about her concerns with JS. In addition to that we also know she phoned in her abuse suspicions to DPW's Childline shortly after her interview with V6 AND sent Schreffler a written copy of her opinion/report (which numerous of her colleagues agreed with) on 5/8 so he could use it as corroboration/attach it to his report.

Of course, when asked about this in 2011 Fulare denies it and only says he heard "rumors" and had no first had knowledge....umm....yeah right pal......yet somehow CC CYS/DPW get away with saying that they never knew of Chambers' opinion/report in 1998 and only knew about Seasock?? Wow.....someone is lying and my money is it's the scumbags at CC CYS. These child welfare professionals dropped the ball REPEATEDLY re: JS and somehow PSU college admins/football coach took the FULL BLAME for JS...unreal!

How amazing is it that after all this time and after all the damage done to PSU, NONE of these CYS/DPW/TSM workers have ever really been thoroughly questioned under oath about what they knew and when?? Especially concerning if/when they learned of Chambers' report...

Also some interesting tweets from Ray re: 2001 incident and who at PSU was aware of it:

Ray Blehar‏@RayBlehar
Easy to ID: Spanier, Baldwin, Garban, Belcher, Junker, Schreffler, Shelow, & others

Ray Blehar @RayBlehar · 18h18 hours ago
When I say "knew" it means about the 2001 incident....but appears they gave EXCULPATORY versions

I can tell you this from the May 4, 1998 interview Miller had with Victim 6. He grilled him. He didn't give Sandusky an inch. He tried every which way he could to get Victim 6 to give him some dirt. Schreffler sat right there in the interview with him.

Remember, up until Lauro (the State) got involved, Arnold and Schreffler were gung ho on going after Jerry. Then, on May 7, Schreffler gets a copy of Chamber's Report (Copy linked). That same day, Arnold tells Schreffler to hold off on doing any psychological evaluation of Victim 6.

On May 8, Schreffler tells Miller to hold off on the psychological evaluation. Miller all of a sudden tells Schreffler he is no longer involved with the investigation except to set up the interview. Schreffler then calls Lauro to tell HIM to hold off on the evaluation. Lauro says no problem, but tells Schreffler to call Miller back to let him know it's OK with him (Lauro) so Miller can tell Victim 6 to cancel the interview for later that day.

15 minutes after getting off the phone with Lauro, Lauro calls Schreffler back and tells him HIS supervisor told him to go through with the psychological evaluation of Victim 6 anyway (in effect, overruling Centre County Assistant District Attorney Karen Arnold).

Even though it is now apparent CYS was contacted by Chambers, it appears the case was taken out of their hands by the State. I think the State wanted the 1998 incident shut down. Not CYS, Gricar, or Schreffler. The State was running the show back then.

My guess is that the State is behind the quashing of this subpoena. If it ever got out that in 1998, the State overruled Gricar, Miller, Centre County CYS, and the Penn State Police Department, all heck would brake loose.


http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Chambers_Sandusky_Report_Redacted1.pdf

 

[mbahses]

Certainly there were people who knew JS was squirrelly, but nobody likely knew the full extent of his depravity. PSU figured he didn't work there anymore, and everybody tried to get TSM to deal with it, because he was still there and that was where the kids came from. I think that is pretty much the extent of it. In retrospect more should have been done, but in retrospect as well nobody really knew what they were dealing with. I think that is the extent of most of the errors.

However, that does not explain whatever else everybody seems to be trying to hide, and that is where TSM really comes into play. Honest people don't hire shredding trucks on a whim, and destroy every single record they can get their hands on before any of the whispers even started. I think what they are hiding doesn't have anything to do with JS at all. If there was a child prostitution ring, or some kind of kid-trading situation, some kid would have stepped up with a lawsuit by now.

+1

And honest policemen do not take pictures of said shredder trucks without trying to stop them.

 

[WeR0206]

I can tell you this from the May 4, 1998 interview Miller had with Victim 6. He grilled him. He didn't give Sandusky an inch. He tried every which way he could to get Victim 6 to give him some dirt. Schreffler sat right there in the interview with him.

Remember, up until Lauro (the State) got involved, Arnold and Schreffler were gung ho on going after Jerry. Then, on May 7, Schreffler gets a copy of Chamber's Report (Copy linked). That same day, Arnold tells Schreffler to hold off on doing any psychological evaluation of Victim 6.

On May 8, Schreffler tells Miller to hold off on the psychological evaluation. Miller all of a sudden tells Schreffler he is no longer involved with the investigation except to set up the interview. Schreffler then calls Lauro to tell HIM to hold off on the evaluation. Lauro says no problem, but tells Schreffler to call Miller back to let him know it's OK with him (Lauro) so Miller can tell Victim 6 to cancel the interview for later that day.

15 minutes after getting off the phone with Lauro, Lauro calls Schreffler back and tells him HIS supervisor told him to go through with the psychological evaluation of Victim 6 anyway (in effect, overruling Centre County Assistant District Attorney Karen Arnold).

Even though it is now apparent CYS was contacted by Chambers, it appears the case was taken out of their hands by the State. I think the State wanted the 1998 incident shut down. Not CYS, Gricar, or Schreffler. The State was running the show back then.

My guess is that the State is behind the quashing of this subpoena. If it ever got out that in 1998, the State overruled Gricar, Miller, Centre County CYS, and the Penn State Police Department, all heck would brake loose.


http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Chambers_Sandusky_Report_Redacted1.pdf

I agree with everything you said except for one part. If the state wanted the 1998 investigation shut down, wouldn't CYS/Miller have to be in on it, along with DPW/Lauro? You said so yourself when you pointed out that when Schreffler told Miller the ADA wanted them to hold off on the 2nd evaluation Miller immediately told him that he wasn't involved anymore except to set up the meeting.

It seems to me that Miller got the memo but Lauro didn't, then after a while when the DPW higher ups realized Lauro was screwing up their plan Lauro was given his marching orders by his supervisor....side note.....how in the eff do we STILL not know who Lauro's supervisor is or who from DPW actually ordered the Seasock eval???

I guess no one in the media was at all curious as to who exactly ordered the Seasock evaluation of V6 which effectively sandbagged the 1998 investigation/prosecution?? Go figure...

 

[BUFFALO LION]

I agree with everything you said except for one part. If the state wanted the 1998 investigation shut down, wouldn't CYS/Miller have to be in on it, along with DPW/Lauro? You said so yourself when you pointed out that when Schreffler told Miller the ADA wanted them to hold off on the 2nd evaluation Miller immediately told him that he wasn't involved anymore except to set up the meeting.

It seems to me that Miller got the memo but Lauro didn't, then after a while when the DPW higher ups realized Lauro was screwing up their plan Lauro was given his marching orders by his supervisor....side note.....how in the eff do we STILL not know who Lauro's supervisor is or who from DPW actually ordered the Seasock eval???

I guess no one in the media was at all curious as to who exactly ordered the Seasock evaluation of V6 which effectively sandbagged the 1998 investigation/prosecution?? Go figure...

Maybe I'm not following you regarding Lauro. He WAS the State. He's the one that did all the talking in the locker room with Schreffler standing right beside him, and reassuring Sandusky that he had seen FAR worse than what happened with Victim 6. He's the one that gave Sandusky the personal phone call either later that night or the next day telling him the charges were "unfounded" and that nothing would go on his record. He's the one who sent Sandusky the personal letter telling him again, that the charges were "unfounded" and nothing would go on his record.

It didn't matter what Miller, Centre County CYS, Gricar, or anyone else wanted to do after May 4 (the night Chambers called in her complaint to the State). The next day (May 5) Lauro showed up and basically took over.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

I agree with everything you said except for one part. If the state wanted the 1998 investigation shut down, wouldn't CYS/Miller have to be in on it, along with DPW/Lauro? You said so yourself when you pointed out that when Schreffler told Miller the ADA wanted them to hold off on the 2nd evaluation Miller immediately told him that he wasn't involved anymore except to set up the meeting.

It seems to me that Miller got the memo but Lauro didn't, then after a while when the DPW higher ups realized Lauro was screwing up their plan Lauro was given his marching orders by his supervisor....side note.....how in the eff do we STILL not know who Lauro's supervisor is or who from DPW actually ordered the Seasock eval???

I guess no one in the media was at all curious as to who exactly ordered the Seasock evaluation of V6 which effectively sandbagged the 1998 investigation/prosecution?? Go figure...

By the way. I think Lauro's Supervisor in 1998 was a guy named Richard Houston. But the speculation is that the decision was made from someone above him.

Seasock was actually employed by CYS and did evaluations for the Second Mile. A HUGE conflict of interest. But there is no way Miller or CYS could have over ruled Arnold. Only the State (or Gricar) could have done that.

Schreffler basically says the State shut things down in this quote:

 

[WeR0206]

By the way. I think Lauro's Supervisor in 1998 was a guy named Richard Houston. But the speculation is that the decision was made from someone above him.

Seasock was actually employed by CYS and did evaluations for the Second Mile. A HUGE conflict of interest. But there is no way Miller or CYS could have over ruled Arnold. Only the State (or Gricar) could have done that.

Schreffler basically says the State shut things down in this quote:

Wow, I didn't know about Houston...thanks for sharing that...also I think you and I are pretty much on the same page re: Lauro/the state shutting 1998 down.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the state thought Chambers was way off and that there was no way JS would ever molest/harm a kid. JS was a PILLAR of the CC community. DPW just wanted it "over quickly" or whatever the 1998 emails/notes mentioned. Hence the insertion of Seasock, he does a 180 on Chambers then case closed and saint Jerry can get back to his work of helping kids and generating $$ for TSM/the state.

Then when it turns out JS is getting arrested everyone is about to have egg all over their faces and have a lot of explaining to do as to why they just wanted 1998 to be closed up ASAP and why they sandbagged UPPD/ADA Arnold's investigation.

 

[Ceasar]

Playing devils advocate. Gricar and local investigators are completely independent of DPW. DPW is not even a law enforcement agency. So while CCCYS would have to defer to DPW, presumably because CCCYS may have a conflict, the DA could absolutely have run his own investigation regardless of what DPW did. Can't imagine Gricar taking marching orders from a group of social workers.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

I agree with everything you said except for one part. If the state wanted the 1998 investigation shut down, wouldn't CYS/Miller have to be in on it, along with DPW/Lauro? You said so yourself when you pointed out that when Schreffler told Miller the ADA wanted them to hold off on the 2nd evaluation Miller immediately told him that he wasn't involved anymore except to set up the meeting.

It seems to me that Miller got the memo but Lauro didn't, then after a while when the DPW higher ups realized Lauro was screwing up their plan Lauro was given his marching orders by his supervisor....side note.....how in the eff do we STILL not know who Lauro's supervisor is or who from DPW actually ordered the Seasock eval???

I guess no one in the media was at all curious as to who exactly ordered the Seasock evaluation of V6 which effectively sandbagged the 1998 investigation/prosecution?? Go figure...

By the way. I think Lauro's Supervisor in 1998 was a guy named Richard Houston. But the speculation is that the decision was made from someone above him.

Seasock was actually employed by CYS and did evaluations for the Second Mile. A HUGE conflict of interest. But there is no way Miller or CYS could have over ruled Arnold. Only the State (or Gricar) could have done that.

Schreffler basically says the State shut things down in this quote:

Wow, I didn't know about Houston...thanks for sharing that...also I think you and I are pretty much on the same page re: Lauro/the state shutting 1998 down.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the state thought Chambers was way off and that there was no way JS would ever molest/harm a kid. JS was a PILLAR of the CC community. DPW just wanted it "over quickly" or whatever the 1998 emails/notes mentioned. Hence the insertion of Seasock, he does a 180 on Chambers then case closed and saint Jerry can get back to his work of helping kids and generating $$ for TSM/the state.

Then when it turns out JS is getting arrested everyone is about to have egg all over their faces and have a lot of explaining to do as to why they just wanted 1998 to be closed up ASAP and why they sandbagged UPPD/ADA Arnold's investigation.

Could you imagine if Victim 6 could get Fulare and Miller to testify that Lauro and the State over ruled Gricar and Arnold in 1998??? And get Arnold and Schreffler under oath to confirm it???

This wouldn't be some McQueary hearsay, horseplay, sounds, whatever. The public would be able to read a 23 page interview with an actual Victim that Penn State TRIED to investigate..... that the STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA shut down. Like I said. All heck would break loose.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Playing devils advocate. Gricar and local investigators are completely independent of DPW. DPW is not even a law enforcement agency. So while CCCYS would have to defer to DPW, presumably because CCCYS may have a conflict, the DA could absolutely have run his own investigation regardless of what DPW did. Can't imagine Gricar taking marching orders from a group of social workers.

I'm telling you right now, Gricar had no choice. Lauro was running the show. You think the DA's office was that powerless in 1998 that they couldn't have stopped the local Child Youth Service from having Victim 6 evaluated?

Arnold to this day is pi$$ed, but has also been muzzled.

 

[WeR0206]

I'm telling you right now, Gricar had no choice. Lauro was running the show. You think the DA's office was that powerless in 1998 that they couldn't have stopped the local Child Youth Service from having Victim 6 evaluated?

Arnold to this day is pi$$ed, but has also been muzzled.

Yep....Schreffler's quote above pretty much sums it up....once DPW decided not to indicate JS (which has a MUCH lower standard than criminal charges btw) it effectively killed the prosecution from the DA's side (which is the reason, I'm guessing, that Arnold didn't want a 2nd evaluation b/c if it was favorable to JS it would hurt their case).

In a criminal charge--most likely prelim phase when prima facie has to be introduced-- All the defense would have to do is call in Lauro and have him testify about why he didn't indicate JS...case over. It would have been interesting to see Lauro/Seasock and Chambers face off in court and give differing expert opinions on JS's behavior towards V6.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Yep....Schreffler's quote above pretty much sums it up....once DPW decided not to indicate JS (which has a MUCH lower standard than criminal charges btw) it effectively killed the prosecution from the DA's side (which is the reason, I'm guessing, that Arnold didn't want a 2nd evaluation b/c if it was favorable to JS it would hurt their case).

In a criminal charge--most likely prelim phase when prima facie has to be introduced-- All the defense would have to do is call in Lauro and have him testify about why he didn't indicate JS...case over. It would have been interesting to see Lauro/Seasock and Chambers face off in court and give differing expert opinions on JS's behavior towards V6.

Well, if that Motion to quash is denied, things could still get VERY interesting.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Great finds by @JmmyW in the appendix of the PCRA filing. Truly mind boggling that the media doesn't seem to care about this.

Here are some screen grabs:

Police interviewed Centre Cty CYS worker 2/2/2011 that Dr. Chambers contacted. "He had heard rumors" PCRA App p.513

Lets review the above shall we?

First off, I don't know how the CC CYS can possibly argue that CC CYS case worker John Miller shouldn't be deposed. Kind of similar to the PSU BOT/PA OAG requesting Freeh to not interview Harmon--who was a central figure in both 1998 and 2001.

Secondly, we find out that according to Chambers PSP interview in 2011 about 1998, Chambers ALSO spoke with CC CYS worker Lewis Fulare (who in 1994 was the director of counseling for CC CYS) about her concerns with JS. In addition to that we also know she phoned in her abuse suspicions to DPW's Childline shortly after her interview with V6 AND sent Schreffler a written copy of her opinion/report (which numerous of her colleagues agreed with) on 5/8 so he could use it as corroboration/attach it to his report.

Of course, when asked about this in 2011 Fulare denies it and only says he heard "rumors" and had no first had knowledge....umm....yeah right pal......yet somehow CC CYS/DPW get away with saying that they never knew of Chambers' opinion/report in 1998 and only knew about Seasock?? Wow.....someone is lying and my money is it's the scumbags at CC CYS. These child welfare professionals dropped the ball REPEATEDLY re: JS and somehow PSU college admins/football coach took the FULL BLAME for JS...unreal!

How amazing is it that after all this time and after all the damage done to PSU, NONE of these CYS/DPW/TSM workers have ever really been thoroughly questioned under oath about what they knew and when?? Especially concerning if/when they learned of Chambers' report...

Also some interesting tweets from Ray re: 2001 incident and who at PSU was aware of it:

Ray Blehar‏@RayBlehar
Easy to ID: Spanier, Baldwin, Garban, Belcher, Junker, Schreffler, Shelow, & others

Ray Blehar @RayBlehar · 18h18 hours ago
When I say "knew" it means about the 2001 incident....but appears they gave EXCULPATORY versions

Just about everybody who gets a county job is politically connected. Last names often do not tell us connected to who though. It is a pretty good bet that connections are part of all of this.

Having said that, it is quite clear that Buff has done some very good research into this, and his points are worth careful consideration.

It is in line with what my position has been since early on.

 

[Zenophile]

maybe they don't want to asked about how they handled things in 2001.

And perhaps they're a little concerned about having to account for "missing" records from reports of suspected abuse.

 

[rmb297]

Some clarifications....

A May 27, 1998 e-mail showed that CYS was still involved in the investigation at that time. It was introduced during Harmon's testimony, along with several other emails about CYS and DPW that were omitted from the Freeh Report.

The email from CYS instructed the University Park police to hold off on conducting an interview of Sandusky that day. They reminded the UPPD that they agreed earlier to interview Sandusky jointly (with them). As a result, Sandusky was not interviewed until June 1st (with DPW's Lauro present).

I wrote about all that evidence here http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2014/05/paterno-subpoena-seeks-to-discover-what.html There was also a document that alluded to Chambers contacting DPW directly about the incident.
----------
I spoke with a former SCPD officer who worked with Detective Ralston at the time of the 1998 investigation. He said that Schreffler stopped by the SCPD to find someone to go with him on the sting at V6's home. He needed to do so because Nittany Gardens was jurisdiction of the SCPD. As it turned out, Ralston went and he didn't. Anyway, the cop told me that the mother of the second kid, BK, would not allow her ten year old son to testify in the case. So, Gricar not only had the DPW "unfounded" report going against him, but he also would have had to make a criminal case just with V6's testimony -- which would have been impossible given Sandusky's reputation.

----------
Harmon admitted to altering the 1998 police report. He not only changed the title, but he put the wrong times on for the incident. I also noted alterations concerning the time and dates related to the conversation around the second interview of Victim 6. JimmyW pointed out variations in Scheffler's signatures at the bottom of the pages.
-----------
Richard Houston was Jerry Lauro's supervisor. Former Perry County (PA) state representative, Fred Noye, provided that information to SMSS in late 2012.
------------

As for my tweets about others who "knew." Erickson was informed that an employee was interviewed by the OAG in January 2012 and claimed to have rec'd a contemporaneous report of the McQueary incident. This person informed another individual. The OAG found them to be credible, but I suspect they too gave a benign description of the event reported by Mike. If they confirmed the details of Mike's story, there is little doubt their accounts would have been used in the Freeh Report to further "indict" the culture.

-----------
As for the "truth' soon -- clearing some legal issues right now.

 

[rmb297]

Playing devils advocate. Gricar and local investigators are completely independent of DPW. DPW is not even a law enforcement agency. So while CCCYS would have to defer to DPW, presumably because CCCYS may have a conflict, the DA could absolutely have run his own investigation regardless of what DPW did. Can't imagine Gricar taking marching orders from a group of social workers.

The PA Statutes mandate that child abuse investigations that allege potential crimes be investigated by a multi-disciplinary team that includes police and child welfare workers. The Moulton Report (and my Report 3) cited this failure in the 2009 investigation. Moreover, had a multi-disciplinary team been established, it is very likely the 1998 police report would have been "discovered" much sooner than January 2011.

 

[simons96]

The PA Statutes mandate that child abuse investigations that allege potential crimes be investigated by a multi-disciplinary team that includes police and child welfare workers. The Moulton Report (and my Report 3) cited this failure in the 2009 investigation. Moreover, had a multi-disciplinary team been established, it is very likely the 1998 police report would have been "discovered" much sooner than January 2011.

Ray, just curious on where you fall regarding CYS, and these investigations.

as has been demonstrated inre the PSU admins in 2001, there is really only one explanation that fits all the facts and their actions: they were concerned about Sandusky's behavior, but no one appears to have earnestly believed he was a serial pedophile.

what is your take on the state's actions? one thing I find curious about the Moulton report and how it has been presented (or misrepresented) in the media is that it "exonerates" Corbett and his investigation of Sandusky. I read no such thing. It said there was no direct evidence to prove the delays were politically motivated, but there WERE inexplicable delays.

do you think they did not believe these allegations (1998, 2009), or were they part of an authentic cover up?

 

[rmb297]

Ray, just curious on where you fall regarding CYS, and these investigations.

as has been demonstrated inre the PSU admins in 2001, there is really only one explanation that fits all the facts and their actions: they were concerned about Sandusky's behavior, but no one appears to have earnestly believed he was a serial pedophile.

what is your take on the state's actions? one thing I find curious about the Moulton report and how it has been presented (or misrepresented) in the media is that it "exonerates" Corbett and his investigation of Sandusky. I read no such thing. It said there was no direct evidence to prove the delays were politically motivated, but there WERE inexplicable delays.

do you think they did not believe these allegations (1998, 2009), or were they part of an authentic cover up?

Well, there are different "actors" involved from the "state." I've said all along that had Sandusky kept his crimes confined to Centre County, he would likely be a free man today. He screwed up by moving his freak show to Clinton County, who unlike Centre County, doesn't provide safe haven for pedos and other deviates. Sandusky's "bad luck" continued when Clinton County didn't realize they should have deferred the investigation to DPW. Instead, they sent in a CY-47 indicating Sandusky -- before DPW could step in and "save" him - like they did in 1998.

Once Madeira got the flaming turd of the investigation, he kicked it to AG Corbett, who wanted no part of it. Agree that the media's interpretation of "inexcusable delays" and a narcotics cop leading a child abuse investigation was "complete exoneration" of Corbett is quite ludicrous. Also, the Moulton Report found no direct evidence that Corbett did anything with the investigation at all. All Corbett did was take credit for the convictions!!

I'll repeat....Sandusky would be a free man today if not for two things.....screwing up in Clinton County & Corbett's budget fight with Spanier. The latter swung the pendulum on actively pursuing a conviction, with the "real" purpose of bringing down Spanier.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Do you ever get the feeling that everyone (CYS, TSM, dozens at PSU) knew Sandusky was screwy/odd/inappropriate but nobody wanted to go farther?

What are all these discussions at CC CYS about that we now want to quash?

Frustrating.

No. I agree many people knew....especially at TSM and with select BOT members with a direct link to TSM. What has disturbed me is what I stated here from the beginning. Everybody knew, but what everybody knew was the real story or a fabricated story. CC, CYS, the psychologists and board members of TSM knew the most. In Giacars 1998 investigation there were not only two psychologist with widely differing opinions, the original qualified and the second unqualified TSM psychologist but two versions of fact emerged from this. The original psychologist version where JS was concluded to be a classic groomer and pedophile was known by CC, CYS, TSM (and therefore select BOT members), select police investigators and the AGs office. The other where the TSM pseudo experts opinion replaced the valid findings, the one which actually appeared exonerated JS was circulated to the AD at PSU and to those like you and I. Get straight the fact that JS was being accused of suspicions of pedophilia since the late 1980s and administrators at the Junior high school level wrote the accusations off. It has been my perspective all along that the Athletic Department, as were many of us Centre County outsiders were fed a line, kept from the truth because too many people that benefited from the program - glad-handers and Centre officials and core BOT money people would have been hurt the most by proper handling of the JS case in 1998. In events I attended in the 1990-91-92-93-94-95 the stories about the real JS persona varied across the whole spectrum from saint to perverse deviant. The stories came from inside the University and outside the University. The way different people within different groups of people viewed the JS persona seemed split along three lines in retrospect....outsiders (all over the map) the inner sanctum types TSM-BOT crossovers - Mum was the word and lastly those that had been fed the 1998 investigative story line that JS was just a good guy falsely accused like many dealing with troubled young people and he was found in 1998 to have been nothing but falsely accused. There is no doubt in my mind that if C,S,S & JP had been given the original psychologist conclusions...JS would not have been walking the sidelines in 1998/9 or ever after at PSU same with the high school personnel. I think after the 1998 "exoneration" was leaked? or placed before the public, school districts and the AD .... the consequence was to blunt future investigations and to discredit the any accusers rightly or wrongly. (remember AF was recruiting accusers and this was known to be fact at the high school level) At that juncture and time, a huge mistake was made or fraud was committed which predicated the future action of others. I am not sure if it was by design ... but if it looks like carp...smells like carp... feels...sounds and tastes like carp.... oh well. No matter what, the digging and investigation into the investigations and correspondences needs to carry on till all questions are answered. This is one person that broke ties with TSM as a volunteer because of the observations I recorded above.... long before 2001-2011 .... something was obviously 'out of whack' as someone used to say .... to me.

 

[JmmyW]

Some clarifications....

----------
Harmon admitted to altering the 1998 police report. He not only changed the title, but he put the wrong times on for the incident. I also noted alterations concerning the time and dates related to the conversation around the second interview of Victim 6. JimmyW pointed out variations in Scheffler's signatures at the bottom of the pages.
-----------

From message board user "ferrariterp" on 2/25/2015:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395&t=13651958&p=9

Noticed something odd recently. When Schreffler was on the stand in the Sandusky trial (page 71) he's asked to read to the court part of his interview with Victim 6, and he reads the headline as interview of May 4, 11:25 AM. He goes on to read questions posed to Vic 6 by both himself and John Miller from CYS. This is part of the 1998 report but was not included in the NBC docs.

Victim 6 was interviewed twice on May 4 and Schreffler did indeed interview him at 11:25 AM...but by himself in his office. Miller didn't interview Vic 6 with Schreffler until 9 PM. Yet apparently, the report given to Schreffler from Amendola says Miller was involved in the 1st interview at 11:25 AM. Was this altered? What's going on here? Anybody know?


----------------
My comments: This apparent discrepancy presents two options:

1. Innocent mistake. Maybe Amendola read the wrong time, or perhaps both interviews were recorded in the same interview transcript.
However, John Miller appears on p.7 on the interview transcript, and that transcript was at least 20 pages. Seems like the initial morning interview would have been more than 7 pages in the transcript. See JS trial testimony of Schreffler. Amendola was reading from the transcript.
-->See 6/14/2012 trial transcript, p.71-72, and p.76
2. John Miller really was there for the morning interview.
This means the 1998 police report was wrong initially or changed later. The first interview was 11:25 am on 5/4/1998. Miller isn't even mentioned until a phone contact at 12:55 pm on the same day; a phone conversation in which Schreffler related what he learned at the interview that morning. The second interview was at 9:30pm of the same day, with both Schreffler and Miller in attendance.
--> Need to look at pages of police report with all this information, and compare to the dates written and the signatures at the bottom.

Pages annotated 2 of 8 through 7 of 8 refer to activity on May 4, 1998
page 2 of 8: [V6] mom called Schreffler at 11am. 11:25 am interview with [V6]
page 3 of 8: more details from 11:25 am interview
page 4 of 8: 12:55 am phone conversation w/ Miller; Schreffler talks about interview
page 5 of 8: 4:00 pm Karen Arnold recommended everyone be interviewed ASAP
page 6 of 8: 8:10 pm Schreffler & Miller interview second boy (B.K.)
page 7 of 8: 9:30 pm Second interview of [V6]; Schreffler & John Miller
page 8 of 8: May 5, 1988 at 1:55 pm; Lauro from DPW contacts Schreffler
These 8 pages were typed on May 5, 1998

See images of the 1998 police report signatures here:

 

[mbahses]

From message board user "ferrariterp" on 2/25/2015:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395&t=13651958&p=9

Noticed something odd recently. When Schreffler was on the stand in the Sandusky trial (page 71) he's asked to read to the court part of his interview with Victim 6, and he reads the headline as interview of May 4, 11:25 AM. He goes on to read questions posed to Vic 6 by both himself and John Miller from CYS. This is part of the 1998 report but was not included in the NBC docs.

Victim 6 was interviewed twice on May 4 and Schreffler did indeed interview him at 11:25 AM...but by himself in his office. Miller didn't interview Vic 6 with Schreffler until 9 PM. Yet apparently, the report given to Schreffler from Amendola says Miller was involved in the 1st interview at 11:25 AM. Was this altered? What's going on here? Anybody know?


----------------
My comments: This apparent discrepancy presents two options:

1. Innocent mistake. Maybe Amendola read the wrong time, or perhaps both interviews were recorded in the same interview transcript.
However, John Miller appears on p.7 on the interview transcript, and that transcript was at least 20 pages. Seems like the initial morning interview would have been more than 7 pages in the transcript. See JS trial testimony of Schreffler. Amendola was reading from the transcript.
-->See 6/14/2012 trial transcript, p.71-72, and p.76
2. John Miller really was there for the morning interview.
This means the 1998 police report was wrong initially or changed later. The first interview was 11:25 am on 5/4/1998. Miller isn't even mentioned until a phone contact at 12:55 pm on the same day; a phone conversation in which Schreffler related what he learned at the interview that morning. The second interview was at 9:30pm of the same day, with both Schreffler and Miller in attendance.
--> Need to look at pages of police report with all this information, and compare to the dates written and the signatures at the bottom.

Pages annotated 2 of 8 through 7 of 8 refer to activity on May 4, 1998
page 2 of 8: [V6] mom called Schreffler at 11am. 11:25 am interview with [V6]
page 3 of 8: more details from 11:25 am interview
page 4 of 8: 12:55 am phone conversation w/ Miller; Schreffler talks about interview
page 5 of 8: 4:00 pm Karen Arnold recommended everyone be interviewed ASAP
page 6 of 8: 8:10 pm Schreffler & Miller interview second boy (B.K.)
page 7 of 8: 9:30 pm Second interview of [V6]; Schreffler & John Miller
page 8 of 8: May 5, 1988 at 1:55 pm; Lauro from DPW contacts Schreffler
These 8 pages were typed on May 5, 1998

See images of the 1998 police report signatures here:

View embedded media

Looks like more tampering?

 

[JmmyW]

However, that does not explain whatever else everybody seems to be trying to hide, and that is where TSM really comes into play. Honest people don't hire shredding trucks on a whim, and destroy every single record they can get their hands on before any of the whispers even started. I think what they are hiding doesn't have anything to do with JS at all. If there was a child prostitution ring, or some kind of kid-trading situation, some kid would have stepped up with a lawsuit by now.

FYI - no need to hire a shredding company, when the owner of one has motivation. Mike Sullivan was a TSM board member since before 1998 up through 2012, and he was also a coordinator of the friend fitness program.









10/26/2013
Document Shredding, the Three R's for Success
http://www.automatedrecords.com/updates/3-rs-document-shredding/

2/18/2011
Once a Second Mile Kid, Always a Second Mile Kid
http://www.automatedrecords.com/updates/once-a-second-mile-kid-always-a-second-mile-kid/

----
This is what the Second Mile 2005 Annual Report had to say about the friend fitness program:

"The Friend Fitness Program provided opportunities for mental and physical improvement to 111 teenagers in the Centre Region and Chester County . The students were assisted by the volunteer efforts of 75 adult mentors who met with them during twice-weekly workout sessions. In addition to the twice-weekly sessions, students and mentors benefited from quarterly social and monthly recognition events, as well as quarterly mentor training on critical issues. Additionally, new mentors were trained to prepare for the launching of a new site in Clinton County at the start of this current academic year."

http://www.americasblood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/AnnualReport2005.pdf

----
And the following are some messages from a now-defunct message board on Gricar from user 'greenbean':

4/6/2013
Recently I had an unexpected conversation with a person I rarely see. Interesting observation made with regard to the behavior exhibited by adults to Second Mile kids at a gym this individual attended and had observed. I don't know if it was Friends Fitness or some other label program. But the reference was not to JS himself - rather to they, referring to the adults in charge. It stood out as the only to-date truly first-hand-witness account I've heard by someone who felt very uncomfortable watching a lot of unnecessary touching going on between the adults and the kids under the guise of its being athletic training.

7/29/2013
And ya know, if Tom Harmon didn't 'know' about the 2001 incident, who indeed removed him from a pleasant-enough retirement and stuck him into place as the AG's star witness against those further up the feeding chain. One can only marvel at the choice of words game - Shultz didn't mention versus I didn't ask - as well as at the proposition that had he 'known' he would personally have called the DA office and asked it to 'launch' another investigation based on 'pattern of conduct'.


And FWIW, there was speculation among that board that "greenbean" was former Centre County ADA Karen Arnold.

 

[mbahses]

FYI - no need to hire a shredding company, when the owner of one has motivation. Mike Sullivan was a TSM board member since before 1998 up through 2012, and he was also a coordinator of the friend fitness program.

View embedded media

View embedded media

View embedded media

View embedded media

10/26/2013
Document Shredding, the Three R's for Success
http://www.automatedrecords.com/updates/3-rs-document-shredding/

2/18/2011
Once a Second Mile Kid, Always a Second Mile Kid
http://www.automatedrecords.com/updates/once-a-second-mile-kid-always-a-second-mile-kid/

----
This is what the Second Mile 2005 Annual Report had to say about the friend fitness program:

"The Friend Fitness Program provided opportunities for mental and physical improvement to 111 teenagers in the Centre Region and Chester County . The students were assisted by the volunteer efforts of 75 adult mentors who met with them during twice-weekly workout sessions. In addition to the twice-weekly sessions, students and mentors benefited from quarterly social and monthly recognition events, as well as quarterly mentor training on critical issues. Additionally, new mentors were trained to prepare for the launching of a new site in Clinton County at the start of this current academic year."

http://www.americasblood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/AnnualReport2005.pdf

----
And the following are some messages from a now-defunct message board on Gricar from user 'greenbean':

4/6/2013
Recently I had an unexpected conversation with a person I rarely see. Interesting observation made with regard to the behavior exhibited by adults to Second Mile kids at a gym this individual attended and had observed. I don't know if it was Friends Fitness or some other label program. But the reference was not to JS himself - rather to they, referring to the adults in charge. It stood out as the only to-date truly first-hand-witness account I've heard by someone who felt very uncomfortable watching a lot of unnecessary touching going on between the adults and the kids under the guise of its being athletic training.

7/29/2013
And ya know, if Tom Harmon didn't 'know' about the 2001 incident, who indeed removed him from a pleasant-enough retirement and stuck him into place as the AG's star witness against those further up the feeding chain. One can only marvel at the choice of words game - Shultz didn't mention versus I didn't ask - as well as at the proposition that had he 'known' he would personally have called the DA office and asked it to 'launch' another investigation based on 'pattern of conduct'.


And FWIW, there was speculation among that board that "greenbean" was former Centre County ADA Karen Arnold.

Jimmy, why did Sassano take pics of the trucks, yet failed to stop the shredding?

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Ive stated this a hundred times....it's always been about the $$$ flowing thru the 2M into prominent pockets. You have a non-profit organization where millions of dollars are being unaccounted for....can you spell LAUNDERING...Blehar said the mob is involved...I agree with him. Add in the fact that PA is a totally corrupt state it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this thing out. What does astonish me is that a News/Journalist site doesn't pick this up a run with it....a show like 60 minutes would have ratings go thru the roof..

 

[sluggo72]

FYI - no need to hire a shredding company, when the owner of one has motivation. Mike Sullivan was a TSM board member since before 1998 up through 2012, and he was also a coordinator of the friend fitness program.

View embedded media

View embedded media

View embedded media

View embedded media

10/26/2013
Document Shredding, the Three R's for Success
http://www.automatedrecords.com/updates/3-rs-document-shredding/

2/18/2011
Once a Second Mile Kid, Always a Second Mile Kid
http://www.automatedrecords.com/updates/once-a-second-mile-kid-always-a-second-mile-kid/

----
This is what the Second Mile 2005 Annual Report had to say about the friend fitness program:

"The Friend Fitness Program provided opportunities for mental and physical improvement to 111 teenagers in the Centre Region and Chester County . The students were assisted by the volunteer efforts of 75 adult mentors who met with them during twice-weekly workout sessions. In addition to the twice-weekly sessions, students and mentors benefited from quarterly social and monthly recognition events, as well as quarterly mentor training on critical issues. Additionally, new mentors were trained to prepare for the launching of a new site in Clinton County at the start of this current academic year."

http://www.americasblood.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/AnnualReport2005.pdf

----
And the following are some messages from a now-defunct message board on Gricar from user 'greenbean':

4/6/2013
Recently I had an unexpected conversation with a person I rarely see. Interesting observation made with regard to the behavior exhibited by adults to Second Mile kids at a gym this individual attended and had observed. I don't know if it was Friends Fitness or some other label program. But the reference was not to JS himself - rather to they, referring to the adults in charge. It stood out as the only to-date truly first-hand-witness account I've heard by someone who felt very uncomfortable watching a lot of unnecessary touching going on between the adults and the kids under the guise of its being athletic training.

7/29/2013
And ya know, if Tom Harmon didn't 'know' about the 2001 incident, who indeed removed him from a pleasant-enough retirement and stuck him into place as the AG's star witness against those further up the feeding chain. One can only marvel at the choice of words game - Shultz didn't mention versus I didn't ask - as well as at the proposition that had he 'known' he would personally have called the DA office and asked it to 'launch' another investigation based on 'pattern of conduct'.


And FWIW, there was speculation among that board that "greenbean" was former Centre County ADA Karen Arnold.

IIRC in the annual report the Friends Fitness program, there was about $350,000 spent on it. It seemed like a lot of money for a program that was entirely voluntary in nature. That is, TSM did not buy the kids memberships to the clubs, or clothes or provide transportation or anything, the mentor donated all of that.

 

[ApexLion]

No. I agree many people knew....especially at TSM and with select BOT members with a direct link to TSM. What has disturbed me is what I stated here from the beginning. Everybody knew, but what everybody knew was the real story or a fabricated story. CC, CYS, the psychologists and board members of TSM knew the most. In Giacars 1998 investigation there were not only two psychologist with widely differing opinions, the original qualified and the second unqualified TSM psychologist but two versions of fact emerged from this. The original psychologist version where JS was concluded to be a classic groomer and pedophile was known by CC, CYS, TSM (and therefore select BOT members), select police investigators and the AGs office. The other where the TSM pseudo experts opinion replaced the valid findings, the one which actually appeared exonerated JS was circulated to the AD at PSU and to those like you and I. Get straight the fact that JS was being accused of suspicions of pedophilia since the late 1980s and administrators at the Junior high school level wrote the accusations off. It has been my perspective all along that the Athletic Department, as were many of us Centre County outsiders were fed a line, kept from the truth because too many people that benefited from the program - glad-handers and Centre officials and core BOT money people would have been hurt the most by proper handling of the JS case in 1998. In events I attended in the 1990-91-92-93-94-95 the stories about the real JS persona varied across the whole spectrum from saint to perverse deviant. The stories came from inside the University and outside the University. The way different people within different groups of people viewed the JS persona seemed split along three lines in retrospect....outsiders (all over the map) the inner sanctum types TSM-BOT crossovers - Mum was the word and lastly those that had been fed the 1998 investigative story line that JS was just a good guy falsely accused like many dealing with troubled young people and he was found in 1998 to have been nothing but falsely accused. There is no doubt in my mind that if C,S,S & JP had been given the original psychologist conclusions...JS would not have been walking the sidelines in 1998/9 or ever after at PSU same with the high school personnel. I think after the 1998 "exoneration" was leaked? or placed before the public, school districts and the AD .... the consequence was to blunt future investigations and to discredit the any accusers rightly or wrongly. (remember AF was recruiting accusers and this was known to be fact at the high school level) At that juncture and time, a huge mistake was made or fraud was committed which predicated the future action of others. I am not sure if it was by design ... but if it looks like carp...smells like carp... feels...sounds and tastes like carp.... oh well. No matter what, the digging and investigation into the investigations and correspondences needs to carry on till all questions are answered. This is one person that broke ties with TSM as a volunteer because of the observations I recorded above.... long before 2001-2011 .... something was obviously 'out of whack' as someone used to say .... to me.

This is indeed interesting. According to you, Sandusky is a saint, a groomer or worse or he's just misunderstood/falsely accused by troubled kids -- just depends on who is providing the description.

So, if you are correct, the BOT says no way on this hot potato because you have some on the BOT who know, some who don't and some who are just plain scared of what will be found out.

A lot to think about. Thanks

 

[mbahses]

This is indeed interesting. According to you, Sandusky is a saint, a groomer or worse or he's just misunderstood/falsely accused by troubled kids -- just depends on who is providing the description.

So, if you are correct, the BOT says no way on this hot potato because you have some on the BOT who know, some who don't and some who are just plain scared of what will be found out.

A lot to think about. Thanks

BoT continually avoids discovery.

Why?