Brock Turner on the ugly underbelly of Stanford's "party culture"

[Tom McAndrew]

High school coaches in every sport, public or private, recruit. They get mad at the private schools because they tend to be able to get the players they want.

You're putting a very large brush to a situation that is far more nuanced.

Private schools can offer money (not directly; just tuition reduction or full scholarships). Public schools can not. That may go a long way toward explaining why the private schools have more success getting the players they want.

When you get to public schools and recruiting, you have to consider the school district and their policies. The rules vary from district to district, etc. I'm not going to use a broad brush to discuss that, as the situations are so much different from district to district.

 

[Grant Green]

There are lots of young people who lack consideration and manners, and it's not limited to specific geographic areas. I'd put the behavior you cited on the kid and then, maybe, his parents, not an entire state.

While you very well could be correct, perhaps the kid and his parents were influenced by the culture that surrounds them. For example, if you are raised in an area that is generally racist, you will probably have a tendency to be racist.

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

Don't forget, these people are from Ohio. Not the best people there.

That being said, my wife were talking about this yesterday and I think he would have been way better off with at least 5 years in jail.
Nobody will touch him for the rest of his life. Jobs, ladies, friends etc. Had there been a stiffer penalty, it would have been 5 years and out.
Now it is going to haunt him forever.

Nothing good in ahia. Double wide trailers and inbred midwestern drug abusing derelicts

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

I lived in Ohio for 7 years. I spoke to my wife about this yesterday. And maybe I'm going to get too deep into the weeds with this. But there really seemed to us to be a difference in the way that women are treated there. I won't get into the root causes and get the board into an uproar. But it just seemed like women were more second class citizens. We noticed it with the way boys treated our daughters. Noticed it with the way husbands treated their wives.

This is just a small anecdote, but....I've never seen so many women who cut the grass in their yard. Growing up, that was always seen as a "guy job", right? In that area, the guy would be inside drinking beer and watching TV while the wife was outside cutting the grass. Like a mule. I don't know. Just one example, but it rubbed me the wrong way.

Just my opinion.....

Pennsy is so much better than ahia. We have our share of issues in places like Philly but overall the Commonwealth is so much nicer than that sewer hole next door

 

[Connorpozlee]

You're putting a very large brush to a situation that is far more nuanced.

Private schools can offer money (not directly; just tuition reduction or full scholarships). Public schools can not. That may go a long way toward explaining why the private schools have more success getting the players they want.

When you get to public schools and recruiting, you have to consider the school district and their policies. The rules vary from district to district, etc. I'm not going to use a broad brush to discuss that, as the situations are so much different from district to district.

Understood. But the public schools crying foul about the private schools always ring hollow to me. The real complaint is not that they are recruiting, is that they are able to be more successful at it than they are because they are offering something they can't. It's hollow.

 

[Woodpecker]

Understood. But the public schools crying foul about the private schools always ring hollow to me. The real complaint is not that they are recruiting, is that they are able to be more successful at it than they are because they are offering something they can't. It's hollow.

Don't kids in public school have to, you know, actually live in the school district in which they play? Yes, I know there are ways around that but they tend to be isolated to a few players. I think a private school without such restrictions may have an advantage there.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Don't kids in public school have to, you know, actually live in the school district in which they play? Yes, I know there are ways around that but they tend to be isolated to a few players. I think a private school without such restrictions may have an advantage there.

They can always find an address in the district if the coach wants them to. I've seen it happen many times. There are always ways around the rules if the coach wants there to be.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Interesting letter that a juror in the Brock Turner case sent to the Judge, after the sentence was handed down. It was first posted by the Palo Alto Weekly, and can be accessed at THIS LINK.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

To piggyback on this thread, the judge in the Brock Turner case faced a movement to have him removed. A judge in Montana is facing a movement to impeach him, after he sentenced a father that pled guilty to an incest charge against his 12-year-old daughter. The plea agreement recommended a prison sentence of 100 years with 75 years suspended, so the defendant would spend 25 years in prison. Instead, the judge sentenced the father to ... 60 days in day, of which he'll actually serve 43 due to his having spent 17 days in county jail.

There are some strange twists in this case. You can read about it at THIS LINK. I just have a hard time comprehending how any judge would think that 43 days is a sufficient sentence for someone that pled guilty to incest with a 12-year-old, just as I couldn't understand how a judge would find it appropriate to impose a 6-month sentence for a college kid, Brock Turner, that was caught raping an unconscious coed.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Eff Brock Turner and eff the 'Furd. He is a perfect representative for the 'Furd. A huge douchebag who has an overweening sense of self importance and entitlement. Who now complains at how HE has been shattered, and blames others for it.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Correct about being a Stanford alum. He did play LAX at Stanford, as well. (He may have been captain -- I'm not certain of that.) Just a clarification that men's LAX is a club sport at Stanford.

All college lacrosse teams out west are club teams. It's a function of both money and Title IX.

Pretty sure the only D-1 lacrosse team west of the Mississippi is DU (i.e., the University of Denver).

 

[Tom McAndrew]

All college lacrosse teams out west are club teams. It's a function of both money and Title IX.

Pretty sure the only D-1 lacrosse team west of the Mississippi is DU (i.e., the University of Denver).

That may have been the case in the past, but it seems to be changing. It certainly is not the case with women's LAX. Stanford has had a D1 team for some time, and the Pac-12 is sponsoring women's LAX starting in 2017-18 (basically because with Arizona St. adding a program, there will be 6 teams in the conference with D1 women's LAX teams.

In men's LAX, I believe that most college LAX teams west of the Miss. are club teams. However, in addition to DU, Air Force has a team, and they are west of the Miss.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

the judge in the Brock Turner case faced a movement to have him removed.

I'm not sure what happened with the movement. However, a short time ago it was announced that the Commission on Judicial Performance concluded that the judge "did not engage in judicial misconduct when he gave a lenient sentence to former Stanford swimmer Brock Turner." You can read a LA Times article about this at THIS LINK.

 

[hawkeyePSU]

More specifically, he grew up in Oakwood, Ohio: which is basically Dayton's richest and most elite suburb.

Kid was very very privileged growing up. "Drinking and doing drugs" is by no means all he had available to him.

hmmm....i lived in Oakwood for 3 years on an Air Force E-5 salary. It's a nice place but lets not get carried away sir. I would not consider a majority of the people that live in Oakwood privileged by any means. I also lived in Kettering, Dayton, Beavercreek, Columbus and Pickertington, so feel free to ask me about any of those places versus making ignorant assumptions based on a google search.

 

[jrd23psu]

Compare this to the Vandy football player who will (justifiably) do 15-25 in real, state prison. Nah, white male privilege is just a myth....

This has been gone over ad nauseam other places, but those two sentences and cases are entirely different. It's not white privilege at work there. Turner was convicted of a different crime that those at Vanderbilt. They were never going to be given similar sentences considering they were different crimes. Those who are upset about the disparity in sentences are not familiar with what crimes were committed and what they were convicted of.

While people may not like the sentence Turner received, it fell within the sentencing guidelines in the state of California for the crime he committed.

 

[demlion]

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"Shattered," was he? Jebus. Exposed for what appears to have been his 1st ever chance to make his own decisions, this is what he does. Rape. Not drunken/high clowning with his friends, where " stuff got broken and lies must be told," not the endless variations of "music too loud and too much smoke in the room," but a solitary act of brutally attacking some helpless girl because you can, and getting away with it even tho you get caught..

Drunks mock and insult people. They puke in their bed. They break stuff and hurt themselves. They get in fights and run their mouths. A drunken RAPIST? Not a maudlin drunk, or a too-easily insulted drunk, or a laughing drunk, but a rapist drunk.
If this is what he does when he has this much to drink, how many drinks would it take for him to rape a child or murder an old lady?

Case makes me sick.

 

[colt21]

To piggyback on this thread, the judge in the Brock Turner case faced a movement to have him removed. A judge in Montana is facing a movement to impeach him, after he sentenced a father that pled guilty to an incest charge against his 12-year-old daughter. The plea agreement recommended a prison sentence of 100 years with 75 years suspended, so the defendant would spend 25 years in prison. Instead, the judge sentenced the father to ... 60 days in day, of which he'll actually serve 43 due to his having spent 17 days in county jail.

There are some strange twists in this case. You can read about it at THIS LINK. I just have a hard time comprehending how any judge would think that 43 days is a sufficient sentence for someone that pled guilty to incest with a 12-year-old, just as I couldn't understand how a judge would find it appropriate to impose a 6-month sentence for a college kid, Brock Turner, that was caught raping an unconscious coed.

There is a bigger problem with the legal system and how judges work - as emphasized by the recent PA hoodwinking ballot question to increase the retirement age to 75 AND of course one judge we know really well - Fuedale

First off the system is corrupt as there is almost no way to truly remove these folks. Second, judges were supposed to be the independent party to determine innocence or guilt but in reality they have become part of the prosecution side of the equation. But finally, even whey they LOSE an election they actually never lose their job.

In Northumberland Count, Fuedale won an election and then promptly spit in the face of those who elected him with an appointment of a Commissioner, after the death of a sitting Commissioner, 180 degrees against that parties wishes.

Subsequently in his next election the vote was NO for retaining him - so he LOST the election right? Well no, he then becomes some sort of traveling judge still making BooKuu Bucks and low and behold graces our presence many years later on this mess.

So the question remains - how do you actually get rid of low performing judges ? Barring actually breaking the law themselves I don't know how you do it

 

[psuro]

Compare this to the Vandy football player who will (justifiably) do 15-25 in real, state prison. Nah, white male privilege is just a myth....

Yes because one data point proves your hypothesis.

Idiot

 

[artsandletters]

His sentence was an absolute joke.

The kid's white and has breeding, pedigree. You know the rest.

 

[kgilbert78]

are women equal or are they not? Its a little confusing these days.

...nah, just some "are more equal that others".

Joking aside, I still follow the old rules, when I remember, though I am not quite as quick to give up a seat in some circumstances, as I'm now over 60 and sometimes my knees just won't hold up.

It can be interesting. Mrs. KG, for example, likes it when we are out dining and I order for her. No, I don't make the choice, though I will often make suggestions as I know her tastes and can read the whole menu a lot faster. But she likes being waited on that way--and we were married over 10 years before I found out about it. How? We were in Germany on our long delayed "honeymoon" trip and she doesn't speak much German while I am fluent. So I had to order for her.

 

[artsandletters]

My mom used to say that too.

The word sex was never uttered in our home. At least I never heard it growing up. Sex didn't exist.

 

[BBrown]

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is this a "twist" on the "affluenza" defense?
Pathetic.

 

[BBrown]

Yes because one data point proves your hypothesis.

Idiot

Well there is the other high profile "data" point in Texas. Just Sayin.
Seriously I dont' think its completely a "race" issue, INMO its more of a "money" issue and who has it.
It also has a lot to do with a complete lack of a moral compass by Judges and them being whores.

 

[AldenT]

Yes because one data point proves your hypothesis.

Idiot

Thanks Ro! It is of course but the most recent data point. There are many books/case studies on the subject.

There are two justice systems. That may make you uncomfortable but it doesn't make it false. Pick up a book once in awhile instead of trolling the internet for pictures of busty women and I'd be happy to discuss.

Idiot.

 

[Woodpecker]

...nah, just some "are more equal that others".

Joking aside, I still follow the old rules, when I remember, though I am not quite as quick to give up a seat in some circumstances, as I'm now over 60 and sometimes my knees just won't hold up.

It can be interesting. Mrs. KG, for example, likes it when we are out dining and I order for her. No, I don't make the choice, though I will often make suggestions as I know her tastes and can read the whole menu a lot faster. But she likes being waited on that way--and we were married over 10 years before I found out about it. How? We were in Germany on our long delayed "honeymoon" trip and she doesn't speak much German while I am fluent. So I had to order for her.

Ah yes, point four:

 

[Tom McAndrew]

BTW, look who is appealing his conviction, and requesting a new trial. Brock Turner back in the news again. CLICK HERE for the story.

 

[psuro]

Pennsy is so much better than ahia. We have our share of issues in places like Philly but overall the Commonwealth is so much nicer than that sewer hole next door

Bwahahahahahaha

Not. Even. Close.

 

[smealpsu2005]

BTW, look who is appealing his conviction, and requesting a new trial. Brock Turner back in the news again. CLICK HERE for the story.

Wonder if Isheem Young will get the same leniency? You know, a 17 yr old who made a bad choice. He’s too young to have his life ruined for this right?

 

[marshall23]

I can say in complete honesty- not proudly either, nor with Internet tough-guy muscles- that if that was my daughter that happened to, the kid would basically have been to six more months of life. I can only imagine what a dark place that would send me to if that was one of my daughters that happened to. I would track him down and would be in jail myself shortly afterwards.

I think I might first pay his father a visit.

 

[Lion8286]

BTW, look who is appealing his conviction, and requesting a new trial. Brock Turner back in the news again. CLICK HERE for the story.

Risky strategy by his lawyers.

 

[psuro]

Risky strategy by his lawyers.

Big mistake. Me thinks someone has an even larger sense of entitlement than originally thought.

 

[Sproul]

When his lawyer said “what happened was not a crime” did he do it with a straight face? He is claiming that because the rape happened near a dumpster but not behind a dumpster, the rape is legal? Can a real sentence (more than 90 days) be handed down this time?

 

[Phil's Rug]

The dad needs an ass kickin as much as the kid.

Apon further review, I'd like to rephrase the above statement to include the lawyer.

 

[NittPicker]

When his lawyer said “what happened was not a crime” did he do it with a straight face? He is claiming that because the rape happened near a dumpster but not behind a dumpster, the rape is legal? Can a real sentence (more than 90 days) be handed down this time?

I haven't followed the case closely but an argument like that sounds like they're trying to say he wasn't attempting to hide the sexual encounter therefore it must have been consensual. He didn't care if he was seen therefore he wasn't doing anything illegal. A guilty man would have been behind the dumpster.

 

[step.eng69]

Wonder if Isheem Young will get the same leniency? You know, a 17 yr old who made a bad choice. He’s too young to have his life ruined for this right?

Not to make light , but Isheem used the wrong weapon. Robbery with a firearm brings additional years of incarceration. Sorry to hear about isheem, especially having a trial before the courts in PA....OAG...
"no body is above the law" Sapiro. If the news article is reporting the actual events, the kid is going to be incarcerated for several years, pending leniency or the prosecutor may ask for maximum time due to a firearm involved in the theft. JMO

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

BTW, look who is appealing his conviction, and requesting a new trial. Brock Turner back in the news again. CLICK HERE for the story.

Wow, what an entitled

 

[dwiz]

I haven't followed the case closely but an argument like that sounds like they're trying to say he wasn't attempting to hide the sexual encounter therefore it must have been consensual. He didn't care if he was seen therefore he wasn't doing anything illegal. A guilty man would have been behind the dumpster.

The girl was unconscious and couldn't consent. I get your point, and it could be applied (legally) if the girl was awake, but this is just over the top. I guess he has nothing to lose, his life is trashed, much like our own beloved ginger at psu.

 

[kijanacat]

As someone who has represented people in the court system in Pennsylvania, I think the idea of white privilege is overblown when it comes to convictions. However, there is definitely some kind of privilege for white men and females when it comes to sentencing. A lot of that has to do with resources available for "rehab" and whether the incident reflects a one-time incident or a pattern of conduct. Generally, white men present better in courts and are more articulate and can afford those lawyers who know what buttons to push with certain judges. It has to be kept in mind that the judge followed a recommendation from the office charged with making that recommendation. Blaming Ohio is wrongheaded. This crime is typical of people who feel privileged to do so.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

To piggyback on this thread, the judge in the Brock Turner case faced a movement to have him removed. A judge in Montana is facing a movement to impeach him, after he sentenced a father that pled guilty to an incest charge against his 12-year-old daughter. The plea agreement recommended a prison sentence of 100 years with 75 years suspended, so the defendant would spend 25 years in prison. Instead, the judge sentenced the father to ... 60 days in day, of which he'll actually serve 43 due to his having spent 17 days in county jail.

There are some strange twists in this case. You can read about it at THIS LINK. I just have a hard time comprehending how any judge would think that 43 days is a sufficient sentence for someone that pled guilty to incest with a 12-year-old, just as I couldn't understand how a judge would find it appropriate to impose a 6-month sentence for a college kid, Brock Turner, that was caught raping an unconscious coed.

I hadn't been following this saga all that closely of late, but it appears that the judge in the case is facing a recall vote. In advance of that, he has broken his silence about the case. You can access an article and a video of him speaking at THIS LINK

 

[step.eng69]

I hadn't been following this saga all that closely of late, but it appears that the judge in the case is facing a recall vote. In advance of that, he has broken his silence about the case. You can access an article and a video of him speaking at THIS LINK

Wow, the comments concerning the judge are very intimidating; one can see why no judge that is elected would want to rule in favor of JerBear seeking a retrial.