brian kelly: All of nd's players at risk academically

[BobPSU92]

See the link.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ting-irish-says-all-players-risk-academically

""I think we recognized that all of my football players are at-risk -- all of them -- really," Kelly told Notre Dame Insider. "Honestly, I don't know that any of our players would get into the school by themselves right now with the academic standards the way they are. Maybe one or two of our players that are on scholarship."

Of course, the players wouldn't get into nd without football. nd has high admissions standards, but it is often the case at universities that football players are not as well qualified as the regular students. Nevertheless, a lot of players graduate. Some schools pull shenanigans to make that happen, but not all schools do. So even though the nd players wouldn't get in without football, they can't hang in some program academically?

kelly's statement is concerning for a number of reasons, one of which being that nd reports a graduate rate over 90% year after year.

 

[bjf1984]

See the link.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ting-irish-says-all-players-risk-academically

""I think we recognized that all of my football players are at-risk -- all of them -- really," Kelly told Notre Dame Insider. "Honestly, I don't know that any of our players would get into the school by themselves right now with the academic standards the way they are. Maybe one or two of our players that are on scholarship."

Of course, the players wouldn't get into nd without football. nd has high admissions standards, but it is often the case at universities that football players are not as well qualified as the regular students. Nevertheless, a lot of players graduate. Some schools pull shenanigans to make that happen, but not all schools do. So even though the nd players wouldn't get in without football, they can't hang in some program academically?

kelly's statement is concerning for a number of reasons, one of which being that nd reports a graduate rate over 90% year after year.

I'm shocked!!!!!

 

[michnittlion]

Are Notre Dame's academic standards really that high? Kelly's saying only 1-2 football players would otherwise qualify to go to Notre Dame?

ND is a good academic school, no doubt --- but they've never struck me as Penn ...... or even Lehigh for that matter. Maybe I'm wrong there?

 

[TheGLOV]

See the link.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ting-irish-says-all-players-risk-academically

""I think we recognized that all of my football players are at-risk -- all of them -- really," Kelly told Notre Dame Insider. "Honestly, I don't know that any of our players would get into the school by themselves right now with the academic standards the way they are. Maybe one or two of our players that are on scholarship."

Of course, the players wouldn't get into nd without football. nd has high admissions standards, but it is often the case at universities that football players are not as well qualified as the regular students. Nevertheless, a lot of players graduate. Some schools pull shenanigans to make that happen, but not all schools do. So even though the nd players wouldn't get in without football, they can't hang in some program academically?

kelly's statement is concerning for a number of reasons, one of which being that nd reports a graduate rate over 90% year after year.

Sorry but I posted this yesterday sir. Try to keep up would ya!!!

 

[PSUriseANDfire]

I think he was exaggerating for effect but their leaders are going to end up driving their profit sports out of the big time. I can see Brey bolting soon.

I am not a Kelly fan but as I understand they are even less willing to compromise than Northwestern. There is a reason Urban Meyer turned down his "dream job" for Florida.

 

[BobPSU92]

I think he was exaggerating for effect but their leaders are going to end up driving their profit sports out of the big time. I can see Brey bolting soon.

I am not a Kelly fan but as I understand they are even less willing to compromise than Northwestern. There is a reason Urban Meyer turned down his "dream job" for Florida.

It doesn't look good to exaggerate something like that. It is also insulting to his players if it is exaggerated. It is insulting either way, but especially so if it is exaggerated.

 

[psu00]

Are Notre Dame's academic standards really that high? Kelly's saying only 1-2 football players would otherwise qualify to go to Notre Dame?

ND is a good academic school, no doubt --- but they've never struck me as Penn ...... or even Lehigh for that matter. Maybe I'm wrong there?

Considering certain individual players that went there over the years- I'd guess the standards aren't real high. . This is Kelly trying to lower them further and put pressure on their administration.

Just about every football player wouldn't get into ND without football??? They are all at academic risk??? And yet they report a 90% grad rate yearly. Let's work that out.

 

[lionville]

He's right about most of his players not being able to get into ND on their own. It's more a result of ND being a small school with a lot of applicants than academic rigor. They can afford to take the most academically qualified students from that pool of applicants which would not include most football players. The other thing of note is ND seems to prefer students from well-heeled families, as they have one of the lowest percentages of students who receive Pell grants.

The culture at ND is one of it being this "special place", and they've convinced themselves that it's a privilege to go there. I can assure you it's neither a special place not a privilege, based on firsthand experience.

The revenue teams at ND are pampered like most d-1 schools. Chartered flights in and out of South Bend as opposed to the other teams that bus to and from Chicago to catch commercial flights. Getting back to campus at 4 am - cry me a river. Those other teams are spending whole days traveling back from away venues.

 

[michnittlion]

He's right about most of his players not being able to get into ND on their own. It's more a result of ND being a small school with a lot of applicants than academic rigor. They can afford to take the most academically qualified students from that pool of applicants which would not include most football players. The other thing of note is ND seems to prefer students from well-heeled families, as they have one of the lowest percentages of students who receive Pell grants.

The culture at ND is one of it being this "special place", and they've convinced themselves that it's a privilege to go there. I can assure you it's neither a special place not a privilege, based on firsthand experience.

Yeah, I looked up the numbers and ND is smaller than I thought: average freshmen classes of only 2,000. The average test scores/GPAs of those who enroll are higher than I thought they would be (they definitely exceed Lehigh, a school I mentioned upstream) --- but that must be partially a function of the # of applicants.

You're definitely right about Notre Dame graduates --- from personal experience, good Lord do they think they are God's gifts to humanity. Give me those "dumber" Lehigh and Penn State grads any day of the week.

 

[psufan9808]

Let me guess, the administration wouldn't admit a kid who runs a 4.3 but can't spell his name so Kelly threw one of the hissy fits that he usually reserves for his QBs on the sidelines?

 

[rjg82]

There are roughly 20,000 applicants a year at ND for 2,000 spots. The average ACT's are 30-33...which puts those kids in the 97% percentile and above. I had a neighbor that had a 4.0 GPA and a 32 ACT and did not get in. They are big on legacy kids which pulls some of the numbers down.
So when Kelly says that most footbal players wouldn't get into ND I believe him.

 

[BobPSU92]

So when Kelly says that most footbal players wouldn't get into ND I believe him.

That is obvious. At many universities, football players are not as well qualified as the regular student body. That is not the point. The point is that at many universities, football players graduate, and it is not always through study halls and no-show classes. At issue is that, according to kelly, the majority of his players are "at risk academically". Thus, he has a team that cannot find their way in the university academically. That is a huge problem, especially when you consider that nd reports a graduation rate over 90% each year.

We know that nd's football players do not meet the admissions requirements. However, given the importance of football at nd, you would expect that there would be academic programs that they could legitimately make their way through, along with the necessary support programs. I consider kelly's comments a revelation and greatly disturbing given that nd for years has been considered in the upper echelon of college football in terms of graduation rates.

 

[mbahses]

That is obvious. At many universities, football players are not as well qualified as the regular student body. That is not the point. The point is that at many universities, football players graduate, and it is not always through study halls and no-show classes. At issue is that, according to kelly, the majority of his players are "at risk academically". Thus, he has a team that cannot find their way in the university academically. That is a huge problem, especially when you consider that nd reports a graduation rate over 90% each year.

We know that nd's football players do not meet the admissions requirements. However, given the importance of football at nd, you would expect that there would be academic programs that they could legitimately make their way through, along with the necessary support programs. I consider kelly's comments a revelation and greatly disturbing given that nd for years has been considered in the upper echelon of college football in terms of graduation rates.

All you need do is go back to the phoniness of Gipp, Rockne and the Four HorsesAsses to see what ND has always been about.

 

[lionlurker]

ND, for the non-athlete, really is quite selective. The kids I know who have gone there recently have been very, very good students.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Considering certain individual players that went there over the years- I'd guess the standards aren't real high. . This is Kelly trying to lower them further and put pressure on their administration.

Just about every football player wouldn't get into ND without football??? They are all at academic risk??? And yet they report a 90% grad rate yearly. Let's work that out.

That is an interesting possibility. He may be trying to shift the Overton Window.

I expect that the ND fans (those that really went to school there) might not welcome that notion, though.

 

[OMPats13]

Doug Gottleib got in, so whats that say?

 

[Art]

He's right about most of his players not being able to get into ND on their own. It's more a result of ND being a small school with a lot of applicants than academic rigor. They can afford to take the most academically qualified students from that pool of applicants which would not include most football players. The other thing of note is ND seems to prefer students from well-heeled families, as they have one of the lowest percentages of students who receive Pell grants.

The culture at ND is one of it being this "special place", and they've convinced themselves that it's a privilege to go there. I can assure you it's neither a special place not a privilege, based on firsthand experience.

The revenue teams at ND are pampered like most d-1 schools. Chartered flights in and out of South Bend as opposed to the other teams that bus to and from Chicago to catch commercial flights. Getting back to campus at 4 am - cry me a river. Those other teams are spending whole days traveling back from away venues.

Suggest that people re-read this post, particularly the second sentence. People ought not to confuse competitiveness of admissions, which can be a function of large numbers of applicants chasing relatively few academic spots, with the academic rigor of the institution. Going beyond that, even universities that are recognized to be academically demanding have programs, often many, that are considerably less so. Ask any admissions officer whether applicants who present academic credentials that are below the averages of those accepted can succeed at their school and the near universal answer will be "yes."

 

[psuguy04]

Suggest that people re-read this post, particularly the second sentence. People ought not to confuse competitiveness of admissions, which can be a function of large numbers of applicants chasing relatively few academic spots, with the academic rigor of the institution. Going beyond that, even universities that are recognized to be academically demanding have programs, often many, that are considerably less so. Ask any admissions officer whether applicants who present academic credentials that are below the averages of those accepted can succeed at their school and the near universal answer will be "yes."

Exactly, Art.

Schools love to tout their average SAT, ACT, etc. scores of applicants and their "acceptance rate"......but most of it is BS.

 

[Evan Ceg]

The culture at ND is one of it being this "special place", and they've convinced themselves that it's a privilege to go there. I can assure you it's neither a special place not a privilege, based on firsthand experience..

My firsthand experience of being a student at ND, albeit a long time ago, is that it's an excellent undergraduate institution. I found the academic rigor there quite stimulating. I transferred to PSU as a junior because Penn State is where my heart was and I liked the social environment better than ND's, but I found the academic competition at Penn State notably less.

Now, a lot has changed since then, including much needed infusions of co-eds at ND, and Penn State's academic standards and rigor are substantially elevated from my day. But I'm sure that Notre Dame remains a first-rate academic institution. ND is more focused on undergraduate teaching than is research-oriented Penn State. The two schools are so different it's hard to compare apples to apples, but ND has its own legitimate reasons for calling itself a "special place."

 

[lionlurker]

Kelly and football aside, I'm sure ND is an excellent academic institution. I say that because all of the students I know who have gone there from our school district or church have been excellent students, and many of them have gone on to very good medical, law, and graduate schools. They appear to have flourished in that academic environment, and none of them ever told me it was easy for them, in spite of the fact that these kids always were high achievers. There's no reason to think that their selectivity is merely due to their size.

I think Kelly was only telling the truth here, and I'm sure it pertains to schools like Michigan and California as well. These are schools that generally accept excellent students with high SAT scores. Most of these athletes probably are not getting 1400 or so on their SAT's. My kid's accepted class at Michigan had a 75th percentile SAT score of 1420 (math and english). If you are a jock, that is more than good enough for Harvard. If you aren't a jock, Harvard won't sniff you with that score.

 

[Art]

My firsthand experience of being a student at ND, albeit a long time ago, is that it's an excellent undergraduate institution. I found the academic rigor there quite stimulating. I transferred to PSU as a junior because Penn State is where my heart was and I liked the social environment better than ND's, but I found the academic competition at Penn State notably less.

Now, a lot has changed since then, including much needed infusions of co-eds at ND, and Penn State's academic standards and rigor are substantially elevated from my day. But I'm sure that Notre Dame remains a first-rate academic institution. ND is more focused on undergraduate teaching than is research-oriented Penn State. The two schools are so different it's hard to compare apples to apples, but ND has its own legitimate reasons for calling itself a "special place."[/QUOTE

Put PSU aside. Has David Shaw suggested that all of Stanford's football players are at academic risk because they were admitted under standards that are considerably below those of their non-athletic peers? Pat Fitzgerald? Coach K?

 

[lionlurker]

No, but Kelly is an idiot, and Shaw isn't. Kelly is the kind of guy who would have hated anybody who went to Notre Dame, because that kid was likely a lot smarter than him.

 

[Art]

No, but Kelly is an idiot, and Shaw isn't. Kelly is the kind of guy who would have hated anybody who went to Notre Dame, because that kid was likely a lot smarter than him.

I have a hunch that the target audience for Kelly's remarks are the powers that be at ND, not the public at large.

 

[MichaelJackSchmidt]

I have a hunch that the target audience for Kelly's remarks are the powers that be at ND, not the public at large.

Well, Kelly wasn't using F bombs so we know his target audience wasn't his players...

 

[lionlurker]

If that is the game he is playing with his administration, I bet he does not win it.